Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

High End Luxury Cars



  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    The comparo of the first place LS430 with other $70,000 comparably equipped luxury sedans can be found on C&D's website.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Yes, Lexus has said the hybrid will spread beyond the RX400h. But it hasn't said how much it will spread. Lexus also hasn't said how much horsepower a supposed LS hybrid would have. So, I do not know where all these claims of 600bhp and so on come from. Not just that but the more ridiculous claim of the LS hybrid basically being a monster car that will put all other competitors to shame is a bold and ridiculous statement 3 years before the new LS comes out. Second, that would imply Mercedes, BMW, Infiniti are just going to stand still while Lexus moves forward. Now, we all know how much B.S. that is.

    And the press is usually less than 100% accurate on stories. After all, they do have to sell issues & get advertising dollars. Blowing news out of proportion is one way they do it.
  • Maxhonda:

    Infinty Q45 only sells a few 100 cars a year...they are not in the game no matter what Lexus come up with.

    You seem so desperate to deny the truth of what is coming...Mercedes and BMW will probably counter with something maybe even license the Toyota hybrid technology...But they will have to move quickly.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    BMW is developing their own hybrid technology, it would seem they would not want to license Toyotas'.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I wasnt surprised to see Ford and Nissan liscensing hybrid technology from Toyota, but for BMW and M-B to do it would be a whole different story. I think its a matter of pride, BMW and Mercedes I think still feel superior to Toyota, and to actually ask them for help seems unlikely.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I think most of the 600hp talk stems from the article in the first link I posted. Whether it turns out to be true remains to be seen.

    It is possible that the 600hp, if it happens, will be in a 'super LS' sort of car, kind of like a 760 or S600 in terms of pricing and unit volumes.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    There was a press article some months ago, I think I posted the link in this forum...basically it said MB was talking to Toyota about licensing hybrid technology from Toyota. Don't know what happened after that.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "You seem so desperate to deny the truth of what is coming"

    you're funny.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    BMW seems committed to hydrogen as an alternative fuel source, so I don't think it's a matter or pride.
  • rgswrgsw Posts: 333
    I found a comment in the current C/D that the new LS500GT will borrow styling cues from the Lexus LF-S concept....the production LS500GT will have a hybrid system providing all-wheel drive by sending electric power to the front wheels. The total output is expected to reach an incredible 600 HP, 200 of which will be provided by the hybrid system. The LS500GT is expected to top $100K in price when it goes on sale fall 2006.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Then its a matter of being committed to a pipe dream. Reliable, cheap hydrogen is a LONG way off. Sorry mr. Bush, but 2010 aint gonna happen.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Don't shoot the messenger on this, however, more companies than BMW are committed to hydrogen. The as yet unproven hybrid systems are at best a stop-gap measure. I say unproven because we really don't have long term pluses and minuses of them.
  • Both Toyota and Honda have developed hybrid systems that are so relatively simple and effective that they have been incorporated into their hybrid cars for several years now with no problems.

    I know Toyota has a 100% guranatee on their battery system for the first 100,000 miles...after 100,000 the batteries need to be replaced at a cost of about $2,500.

    Lexus will be coming out with their Hybrid system in an SUV next year.
    several auto companies have purchased lisences to use the Toyota hibrid system.

  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Toyota and Honda are clear leaders in this area. Ford is coming out with a hybrid Escape using Toyota's (older) first gen hybrid system. Which century are they in ? Even Ford is smart enough to do the right thing - go with proven technology.... Hydrogen fuel-based power is a pipe dream, just as lexusguy said. It ain't gonna happen in twenty years, at the least, imo. The gas-electric system remains the most viable alternative for now. GM and BMW developing H2-hased system will learn soon enough not to throw good money after bad business model. Didn't GM promise this by 2010 ? Yeah, right....

    Max: LS500GT, GS350GT, VXxxx (Lexus version of the Sequoia), 2006 Tundra and 2007 Sequoia are all rumored to have a hybrid engine option when they all debut. Guess, we'll see if this ultimately pans out as *speculated*. But Toyota is a proven winner in hybrid system so I'd bet these to happen soon enough, especially as the politics of oil heats up (pun intended) in coming years.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I dont think 15+ years qualifies as "stop-gap". I applaud Toyota and Honda for looking at a current environmental and geo-political issue, and DOING something about it. BMW can send out as many press releases as it likes about how great hydrogen is GOING to be, but the all new 5 and 6 series use plain old 93 premium, and lots of it. The RX400h gets what, 2.5x the mileage of the X5?

    You're probably looking at 2025 before there's a hydrogen station on every street corner, and the PEM fuel cells and batteries are small enough to fit into your average Civic or Focus.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Roamer's first rule of innovation says:

    "New technology needs to co-exist with that which it is going to replace".

    That exactly what hybrids are doing today. Helping us make the transition to more effective chemical and electric solutions to transportation technology.

    Hydrogen, OTH, can't until there's at least enough 'hydrogen refueling points' for vehicle to go from point a to point b.

    Maybe the right answer for hydrogen is a hydrogen hybrid. We'll call it HyHy.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Some folks here love to tout the 'heritage' of certain makes and how they were the top gun in 1930 or so. Well, that's great but you know that was 70 years ago.

    In the meanwhile, others have been competitive.

    For all the fans of BMW, Audi, VW and Mercedes, let's welcome you to the best engine manufacturer on the planet: Honda.

    The Indy 500 just ended. Race cars powered by Honda finished in the first 7 positions. No BMW, No Mercedes, No Audi, No VW, No Porsche.

    You want something that puts out max power, at 200+ mph for 500 miles or more, where do you go? Not Europe. I read that the MB V10's blew up again in todays Grand Prix F1 race at Nurburgring.

    Toyota is 2nd in the IRL standing, Chevy a distant 3rd.

    Heritage is one thing, reality is another.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Nein!!! Suh Cherman cars are suh BEST!!!!!! Vee are superior unt vee vill vin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Someone had better develop and throw money at alternative energy source. Gas/electric hybrid systems just delay the inevitable, more reliance on oil.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I watched the race until the rain delay and that was it for me. I was surprised to see Honda engine-powered cars so dominant in the race. Buddy Rice, the pole sitter, qualified doing 222+mph. Astounding ! Is this the same Honda company that will not put a V8 in their high-end RL ? Strange....

    More to your point tho', the IRL or CART may have Honda and Toyota dominance, but the counter to that is F-1 racing where Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW and others are dominant, and the likes of Toyota and Honda either don't even play or are small potato (I suspect). So it may be a wash anyway.....
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    And just who is going to do that? Cheney?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
  • carnaughtcarnaught 'zonaPosts: 2,369
    Hang it up on the politics.

    (You're both wrong anyway. LOL)
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    As long as there are rampant profits to be made in oil, nobody will invest in alternative ideas, except Japan.
  • sv7887sv7887 Posts: 351
      Good point. I sincerely doubt the Oil companies are going to allow alternatives such as hydrogen to eat into their market share. In creating the Hybrid, Toyota and Honda have presented a viable technology. Okay, it's not a replacement for oil, but it at least makes for a more efficient technology.
       I'll be very impressed if the RX400h lives up to the hype. The allure of the hybrid technology is almost enough for me to trade my 02 LS in 2006/7 when the new Hybrid LS is expected. This is what I call revolutionary technology.

  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Ferrari is.

    Current constructor points:

    Ferrari 106
    Renault 61
    BAR-Honda 46
    Williams-BMW 36
    Sauber-Petronas 10
    McLaren-Mercedes 5

    Jag has 3 points and is further down.

    MB engines aren't reliable, BMW's fading from competition. Honda moving up.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Indeed, my wife and I will be closely looking at the RX400h. I think Toyota has a chance to revolutionize the industry, as well as grab that 15% market share they've been after..
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I don't think the OIL companies have a choice, I don't know about you but I don't want to pay $3 or more a gallon. Hybrid technology is a band-aid, real alternative sources need to be found. GM and BMW both investing in hydrogen/fuel cell technology. It doesn't matter how proven hybrid technology is if there is no oil to make gasoline.
  • There is actually plenty of oil on this earth to take us for another centry ...there is plenty to satisify our needs just in the US territories ...The problem is the enviormental people who do not want us to drill for it and I am not just talking about Anwar. We have huge Coal reserves from which Oil can be extracted and there is hard to reach oil in our current fields that can be reached with R&D and good old American enterprise. Nuclear Plans for electricity should replace current plants that eat up Oil and Gas (Mostly Natural Gas) Nuclear has proven to be the Cleanest and safest form of energy and if we can get the lawyers out of the way and start building these plants it is also the cheapest

    There is huge reserves off shore all our coasts...The California coast has massive oil resources as does Florida.

    The thing that I find curious is that our enviormental people object to our drilling in the US which has the best laws for protecting the enviorment in the world...

    If this is truly one small earth ship and the cleanest drilling is preferred to the dirty countries drilling, we should be drilling all our oil at home.
Sign In or Register to comment.