Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I thing the GS is a Beautiful Car...but Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...Sales will determine if the public like it or not.
-these are just my opinions on the topic, so of course they're subjective.
- insofar as showing off wealth is concerned, I actually think the majority of guys whose goal is using a car to those ends will purchase an exotic, such as a ford GT, lambo, etc, and have it dripping with bling. Most of the people I sell an S-class to are simply looking for the largest, smoothest riding vehicle their budget will allow.
-whether the GS sells well or not, it's design signatures, IMHO, are right off the current maxima.
-I think hybrids that breach the 100k dollar range will likely only offer a unique drivetrain, at the cost of overall driveability, but we'll see...
-Those gen-Y kids are a pretty fickle crowd. The sad thing is they're driving around in cars it should take years of hard work and good descision making to earn, when most of them haven't worked a day in their young lives.
-the es330 is a better equipped and more refined car than the C? The last I saw of it, it was a camry with a brace connecting the front strut towers, and has others (mostly mercedes-benz) to thank for every feature it offers. But I agree there are other boards for the lesser cars.
Just curious, as good a salesman as you seem to be ...Are you still able to sell as many S class Mercedes as you say 5 years ago...Our has all the mechanical and electrical problems caught up with you guys.
I think the S-class sells as well as it always has, overall, but I work out of a small market that's fairly conservative. The irony of the whole quality/reliability issue is that the word has traveled slowly. Nowadays, the cars are as reliable as they've been in the 5 years I've sold them, but the "conventional wisdom" says my product is bad now. Mercedes still has a way to go towards getting their act back together, and I think they've made some poor decisions, but I have much more faith in the product than I did two years ago. My biggest worry right now personally is that some of my best techs, whom I rely on heavily, are going to leave because they're not busy enough. and no, I'm not just saying that.
-ljflx - That's fine...
That is great...It is always a good thing for the customers when the mechanics don't have enough work.
Who are the guys going to...When the best one's leave they always have jobs lined up?
"One of Mercedes-Benz's key brand values — quality — is suffering. How are you addressing this issue?
It is true, we have been having problems in this area. It has almost become negative PR for the brand. But we are going to fix these flaws, because we really do care about our core competence. Quality must come first, no question about it. It is an essential investment in future profits. How are we going to handle this matter? We will bring already delivered problem cars up to date, and we are going to implement even stricter quality controls, from the drawing board to the assembly line.
So most of the flaws are homemade?
No, quite the contrary. Look, for instance, at COMAND [Cockpit Management and Data system] or SBC [Sensotronic Brake Control]. Our biggest headaches are electronic glitches. That's why we are going to have a word with our suppliers, but at the same time we are also introducing new test and validation procedures.
Would a no-questions-asked three-year warranty not be the most convincing answer?
Such a warranty is already in place in some markets, and we are thinking about introducing it in other countries like Germany, but there is no decision yet. In a way, we'll even go beyond the warranty claims because we feel morally obliged to right the wrongs. After all, customer satisfaction is our top priority.
This is going to cost you .
a three-figure sum in a million euros, I know."
****
This may be the first time I have heard an MB executive admit that the problem is something more than a end-of-assembly-line QC issue. Of course, now it is a problem with their "suppliers". Eventually he may be able to admit that MB itself bears some responsibility! Gee, and just maybe there is some "negative PR" out there about MB reliability????
A basic business rule is that to fix a problem you first have to appropriately define it. At this rate, MB should have the reliability problem fixed within the next decade or two.
Full interview link:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105036?mktcat=sedans&kw=HTML&mktid- =NL990339&DARTmail
In terms of price, I think if you can find a good copy of the "92-"99 S320, long- or regular wheelbase, that is a car that can be bought at a good price these days($18k -$25k). It's not a very powerful car, but the straight 6 was a great engine as long as the headgasket is changed, and should give you years of good service and a very big, comfortable ride. Most of those cars were free of problems.
Anyone know what the Sensotronic does.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/mercedes_recall.html
Is he being honest - yes - given he can only say so much. As was pointed out - what he said was a big admission. One thing though - the quality improvement cost is way off. A million Euros is not even worth a mention. You can bet your life that is a small fraction of the cost and I mean extremely small.
PS Did someone above really mean to post that a couple they knew dumped a MB for an XKE for superior reliability?? Maybe an XJ but not the XKE two seater.
Check your facts. Lexus' is sold in Europe although with minimal success. But you also have to remember that MBs sales in Europe are way overblown due to the the huge volume of low-priced benz's they sell with cloth trim, hubcaps, and small engines for taxi duty and to regular consumers. Otherwise, Lexus are sold in the Middle East(a big market), Australia, the Far East(china, Taiwan, Singapore, etc.).
"isn't MB/ Chrysler the worlds 4th largest automaker?"
Isn't Toyota the 3rd largest? or is that 2nd largest?
M
So what did you think of that Illini comeback?? I'm pulling for them bigtime.
Although most folks think of TPS when they think of the source for Toyota/Lexus quality, I've been told that insiders within Toyota/Lexus will state that their best attribute as a company is "problem solving"!
Until effective problem-solving becomes culturally institutionalized in the German firms (via lean, 6-sigma, etc), quality attainment will remain painful, but not unobtainable. Accepting responsibility for past quality glitches and owning up to the challenges ahead is a great start. I'd like to believe that the trend to top quality rankings is well underway.
As both a MB and BMW owner for years, my ownership experience has been varied. My '99 ML had some issues, but the 2002 has been solid. My former CLK's, C's, and E's have been a joy, for the most part. My '03 530 SP has been the finest car I've owned to date. They all have hit the right buttons when behind the wheel.
I'll never diminish the Japanese products and am damn glad they set the bar at something! If I'm going to be known for something, there are worse things than top quality rankings!
Unabated taking of sides while damning the opposition is as palatable as the tragic Terri Schiavo case, where both sides lose. Even an art critic can live with a Degas and a Picasso in his/her collection, even though the two draw completely distinct emotional reactions.
Just wish the merits of our favorite cars could be debated with a sense of realism and passion to the degree that "different strokes for different folks" becomes the bottom line...
In particular, I would like nothing better than for MB to resolve its reliability issues, for BMW to drop its over-quirkiness, for Audi to improve its dealer network, etc., so I could go back to my old buying habits. I was sincerely happy to see Cordes mention that the QC issues go all the way from the "drawing board to the assembly line". Too bad he then seemingly tried to cover up for/placate MB's own engineers by putting all the blame on those pesky outside "suppliers". That was the substantive point I was trying to make-- you can't make a better omelet without breaking some eggs, and Cordes won't truly be able to improve quality if he doesn't focus his own troops on designing reliability directly into the product.
Interestingly, just as you stated you are glad that the Japanese have set the bar for quality, I had previously stated that I was glad MB (and some other Europeans) were around to act as innovators. And hey, maybe someday we will be thanking the Koreans like Hyundai for showing how "high end luxury" only has to cost 20% more, instead of 100-200% more, than "standard". Who knows....but of course, they still won't have MB's "heritage", right merc1?
Wake me up, I must be dreaming.
Lexus builds each car correctly and will stop assembly anytime deficiencies are noted. Hence, they do not constantly repeat the same mistake over and over as does MB. The net result is that it takes fewer people (66 to be exact) to build a LS430 with little or no QC corrections upon completion of the build cycle. Net result is fewer corrections, fewer people required to build the car and a more consistent product with highly satisfied customers.
Yes, I am one of those 3 car, 2 driver families.
Toyota 4-Runner
LS 430 UL
SC430
Ron
Here's the kicker. Don't be surprised if it shows up hybrid.
Porsche has been dancing with Toyota and has recently announced that they are pursuing a hybrid Cayenne using licensed Toyota technology. Reportedly, the sedan will be using both versions of the Cayenne 4.5 engine, 340hp and 450hp turbo. So, given Porsche's need to economize, parts-sharing fits the picture just as it did with the 911 and Boxster, without which the Boxster could not have been built.
Perhaps more important, there will be new and tougher emission standards in place by the time Panamera is launched. Since Porsche is a performance manufacturer who sells most of their cars in the US, emissions have been a thorn in their side. On top of their Cayenne which is a portly beast that now accounts for more than 50% of their sales, a new conventional performance sedan could negate the emissions benefit of adding a hybrid Cayenne to their fleet, not to mention the increases in engine performance of the 911 and Boxster.
Then there is Toyota who has publicly stated that they want to bring their hybrid technology worldwide. A hybrid performance Porsche would be a coup, a marketing tool for Toyota's brainchild without competing with Lexus. It would be a poster child for their technology.
Lastly, Ferdinand Porsche is credited with being the first to develop hybrid power early in the 20th century. This scenario fits the Porsche heritage and mission like a glove. Mission? You bet. If a 4-second hybrid Lexus is in development for a luxury format, picture that kind of performance on a Porsche suspension.
It is very early in the process for a Porsche sedan. Rumors mean squat. It will gain credence when Porsche announces a commitment to proceed. As we know, showing a concept is not a commitment. But it appears that Panamera is in the think tank and we may know a lot more this fall.
Well, it's just a thought. In any event, you heard it here first.
I'm am betting man so I have a lot riding on this!
M
M
Of course not. Mercedes' heritage is the oldest and most grand, now all they have to bring the quality/reliabilty back up to that standard again.
M
We all know that the European car companies have some work to do getting their cars built right, but personally, I am still waiting for the European car makers like BMW and Mercedes to do something innovative other than develop terrible user-interfaces (iDrive) or add more useless gears to their automatic transmissions.
Sure Mercedes was innovative once, but I think that not only has their quality and reliability suffered, but their ability to innovate in a significant way has fallen by the wayside.
Sure they have lot's of "heritage" from back in the days when they were a high quality and innovative car company, but I don't think so any more.
Toyota and other Japanese owned car companies are ALWAYS ranted about here as being copy-cats and folks that are good at refining and perfecting someone else's technology.
I think that they have taken on the innovators mantle too. The next Lexus 400h and Toyota Highlander Hybrid are to quote Wards:
"For the record, the RX 400h is the first luxury hybrid electric vehicle (HEV) on the market, and the Highlander is the first 7-passenger HEV. Both are “full” HEVs, in that they can run in electric-only or gasoline-engine-only mode, or both. They also represent the first 4-wheel-drive hybrids, with a third electric motor sending power to the rear wheels."
They will sell everyone they build at list or better to folks in the long lines waiting to buy them.
This isn't derivative technology from Germany. These are independently developed, complete, integrated drive systems. I beleive that German car companies are working on marrying electric and diesel and still trying to figure out how to get some performance out of two low horsepower, high torque engine systems. Duh?
While Toyota was developing these exciting new vehicles, Mercedes has been struggling to build a new ML off of conventional technology and fabricate it in Alabama hoping that it isn't a quality and reliability disaster like the original.
Meanwhile, Infiniti and Acura have redefined what AWD systems are all about while 4matic is still 4 matic and Quattro, though updated, is still all-mechanical.
I think that when we talk about these kinds of vehicles we ought to recognize where the innovation these days is really happening.
Cordes can prattle about all he wants, but the marketplace is the measure of success.
But I do think people overlook Japanese innovation. Nissan is trying to bring back 4-wheel steering, which if I'm right they innovated originally with super HICAS 4-wheel steering back in the late 80s. Not to mention Honda and it's great new AWD system on the RL and they innovated variable valve timing. And Toyota and HOnda have probably the biggest innovation in years with Hybrid drive systems.
Footie & maxhonda - good points.