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High End Luxury Cars



  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Hi Sam:

    Really appreciate your post. That LS still looked good after 14 years. Remarkable ! And IMO, you got one of the last really beautiful S class styles. No matter how many times I see the new S (about 6-times now), it has not grown on me.... I think the look is a step back for MB, but I stand corrected by those who find it otherwise. I wish you many years of enjoyment of the new S, and may it serve you longer than your old LS.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    As you might recall from a recent post of mine, I mentioned that the LS600h will go down in history as one of the most technologically sophisticated production vehicles ever built . . . and I don't mind saying it again, as long as it doesn't send you too far into outer space.

    Tagman, despite our difference of opinion on Lexus v German brands, you do write pretty good and slowly becoming a favorite on this board. Keep it up... but don't be too hard or DrFill, he is a jolly good fellow and a darn fine poster as well. A legend, really here on Edmunds...

    Now to the LS600H. You have it nailed that it will be a technological marvel - coupling a gas-electric motor, with an AWD system, in a LWB trim, and doing a 5s or less 0-60 ! Seems to be a good entry for an upmarket move by Lexus. BTW, the GS450H has equally been described as a technological marvel. Its 51/49 weight distribution, its slimer and more space efficient battery system, its dynamic performance, near silent ride, exceptional speed (5.2s 0-60), great ride and handling (better than the GS430), all make the LS600H a much anticipated car.

    Its tomorrow, and we'll know soon enough. I speculate a 440/450 spread on HP/TQ for the LS600H. The LS460 already has 380 ponies... Plenty for a mere 4.6L motor... But there is rumor that the LS600H may spot the new 5L V8 motor coupled to the electric battery. We'll see soon enough...
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Great post - we disagree to a degree but in general are on the same track - on this and many things. I like your business views very much. Would have loved to have crossed your path in the real business world.

    And conquer the world? Hail WalMart!

    Seriously . . . nice compliment. Genuine thank you. :)

    So . . . since the debut is upon us, when do the rags get the seat of their pants in the LS600h?

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484

    You are too kind! Thank you very much!

    You cut an impressive key stroke yourself, sir. As does Tag. I had too much time on my hands today, so I've been a little fiestier than usual, started a few more fires than necessary.


    The alacrity of the LS is due more to lack of weight (the OTHER way to create a faster car), as the LS generally weighs right around 4000-4100 lbs., while the Germans and their high-felutin (sic) acronyms carry 2-300 extra lbs.

    The GS ran 5.7 in C&D, the same time it pulled in the previous generation. I've seen the LS at 5.9-6.1, consistently. The GS handles well for a Lexus, but now the IS definitely is much more agile, if still more Mercedes than BMW in feel.

    When the GS upgrades in the fall, hopefully a sharper edge can be baked in.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I guess even I'm excited to see this new LS600h. Will it really have AWD and the LS460 doesn't?

    I see on the other board you and others are saying 440-470hp, I wouldn't be surprised to see a full 500hp with his car considering the cooking LS460 will have 380hp.

    Even with the new G35, E-Class, and LS600h I'm ready for the auto show season to be over at this point. I got enough of it at Detroit and Chicago, but wait there will be a 2nd L.A. auto show in November. Gee Whiz.

    I know well all don't think much of Autolies, but they have some good pics of the new Altima and G35 which more or less alike and more or less like facelifts of the current vehicles than all new designs, IMO.

  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    My guess is 440-450hp, enough to edge out the 760Li, but not the twin-turbo S600.

    Unless, of course, the 5-liter rumor turns out to be correct.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    press release

    5-liter, "more than 320kW" (320kW=429hp)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well if those specs hold up then they'll be going after the 750 and S550, not the 760 and S600. Should be some good reading all over the net in a few hours!!!

    What I find even more interesting is that they have a 5L V8 to use somewhere. Toyota isn't going to build a 5L V8 for just one car. I suspect this new 5L will be used in that often talked about IS500 and LF-A sports car.

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    It will need to be substantially above the 460 in power to support the rather huge jump in curb weight.

    50HP isn't enough. Unless you want a slower car than the 460. :(

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Keeping it here is just fine. You Lexicans need other points of view to keep you sober. You know, when you guys sit at the same table and start drinking that Kool-Aid I start to get a little worried about ya.

  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I forgot to tune in until about 9:40, so only caught the last few minutes. Did they say anything of interest that isn't in the Australian press release?
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Much more detailed than the Australian release, and you can click on the picture to access a picture gallery

    press release

    direct link to picture gallery
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    The press release stated AWD as the drivetrain, yet it is almost ignored throughout, i.e., not hyped as the first LS with AWD, but first XM-factory install hyped ! Strange... Overall, the press release is scant on information... typical Toyota/Lexus. No TQ number was even speculated, which means they are still working out the final HP/TQ numbers. I suspect the HP would probably be substantially more than 430. Like DrFill said, a 50HP bump from the LS460 --> LS600h wouldn't cut it, with the added weight from the battery and AWD. A 2-stage CVT tranny is very nice, and of course finally an LS for all-terrain. How AWD and VDIM will work together should be interesting, cos there is no Lexus with such a combo setup.

    I must say I was NOT overwhelmed with the info in the press release. Maybe in time as more info trickles out of Lexus I'll get real excited. For now, I'll adopt a wait-n-see attitude with this car. Of course, my interest is in the SWB LS460. 380HP is plenty for me... My current 278HP LS400 has plenty of pep, and passing power.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    380hp 370lb-ft Approximate. They’re just not giving the details of the engine vs electric motor. The Rx400h spec sheet just lists total system power and no torque, no RPM. That’s as vague as it gets. Is it any different in the catalog? Just asking. It’s hard to parse hybrid power and compare it with a lone engine anyway. It seems there is no convention yet for presenting hybrid performance data.

    And no weight spec. I hate that. I'm guessing it will be at least 4700 lbs. I wouldn't be counting on a 5-sec 0-60.

    How AWD and VDIM will work together should be interesting, cos there is no Lexus with such a combo setup.

    Doesn’t the Rx400h have AWD and VDIM?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690

    Could be different tweaked power for different countries. As well there's been this rumored lux sedan that comes in above all of the LS cars that will be even more powerful than this one in the $110-130K range. If the latter is true you have to ask the question (to all lux brands for that matter) of how much is too much.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Initially, I think the car is quite attractive. The long wheelbase adds a degree of "elegance" I've personally not ever seen in a Lexus. The black looks terrific, but I imagine other colors will work well.

    I do not like the way the rear center "cocktail tray" is directly over many of the multi media controls . . . a little spillage might do a lot more damage than in other configurations, and I definately frown upon the pull down monitor, as it is more common in mainstream suv's. Most upper end installations use individual headrest monitors. I'll hope that by the time the vehicle is released, there will be individual color monitors in the back of the front headrests, but that may just be wishful thinking.

    There are no angles from the photos that I find disturbing. As much as I absolutely love the new Mercedes S-Class, the rear trunk bugs me (just a little, though) at a 45-degree angle from the rear. Other angles are wonderful, though.

    I will withhold too much comment on the powertrain, as I am not yet clear on all the vitals, but the AWD is a pleasant surprise.

    To me, this vehicle is a testimony to the potential level of technological achievement that is possible in one single production car. Lexus is to be congratulated for putting forth so much effort into this incredible vehicle and, IMO, raising the bar and challenging the entire industry. This LS600hL will be an ultimate HELM, and anyone that ends up with one should drive it proudly, IMO.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Indeed the 278hp LS430 is no longer competitive, which is why its being replaced with the LS460. For whatever reason, ever since the GS400 was released in '98, its had more horses than the LS400\430.

    I think you misunderstood the point of my post about the Northstar in the Lucerne. The engine is indeed very capable, but in crippled Buick form, and with just 4-cogs to work with and two tons of car to move (some 400lbs. more than the Avalon) its just not good enough. Ultimately another average GM product.
  • benzsterbenzster Posts: 152
    This LS600hL will be an ultimate HELM
    Without exception??
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Don't misunderstand, benzster. I said "an" ultimate HELM, not "THE" ultimate HELM. Certainly there are higher tiers and other incredible HELMs. The sophistication, however, of this upcoming LS600hL is unique in some ways, and it is historically noteworthy, IMO, and deserves respect for its accomplishments. The long wheelbase LS has good presence and elegance and it represents the most attractive Lexus I have seen to date.

    Most on this forum know that I have had my issues with Lexus styling blandness for a long time, but I think that this new one in the long wheelbase has finally reached a level of styling that I will not hammer. I have not seen the car in person, of course, but even though I am a huge Euro car fan, especially the German marques, I find this new Lexus LS600hL to be an amazing achievement, IMHO.

    Interesting you would reach to a Maybach to upstage it. And, yes, the Maybach is an ultimate HELM, no doubt.

    I don't think it will hurt some of us German car fans to give credit where it is due. Our favorite German cars are still awesome and will not be destroyed by this Japanese achievement. But I can not stand by and deny the LS600hL its proper accolades . . . particularly on its official debut day. There will be plenty of time to discover its true nature, pros abd cons, as time unfolds.


  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Good post, Tagman... Well said indeed. In fact, much better than a Lexican will say it. Are u sure u are not secretly harboring buying an LS460L or 600hL ?? :)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Good post, Tagman... Well said indeed. In fact, much better than a Lexican will say it. Are u sure u are not secretly harboring buying an LS460L or 600hL ??

    HA! :D Thanks, oac. No, I'm afraid not, but if I were to want one I'd have placed myself on one or more of the lists along with ljflx and others. And I would strongly encourage anyone who is even thinking about getting one to get on a waiting list ASAP.

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Tagman - are you going to look at buying or leasing the new S or the LWB or hybrid LS? Right now it's scary to think about how inevitable it is that these two cars will dominate this segment in 2007.

    Benzster - why? Looks real bad when you need to pull out a $350K car to beat a car that will be less than a third of its price - plus that car is not selling and has been a major disappointment.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    You might think this is ridiculous, but I somehow have found myself semi-interested in the diesel market's expansion here, and I want to see just what unfolds. I might change my mind over time, but at this moment that is where I seem to be. I am suspicious that the manufacturers are withhoding some of the information on upcoming diesels, to prevent risking loss of important current sales. Admittedly, I could easily be completely wrong about this, however. Surprised?

    I will confess here, since you ask, that I have considered placing a deposit on a 2009 Porsche Panamera, however.

    Yes, I agree that the LS and S will dominate. What will Audi, Jaguar, and even BMW have in their arsenals to compete?

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,472
    I am curious as to why this auto seems to be so unpopular. I have never owned or driven one but I looked one over the other day and it was a very fine looking auto. In fact it looked as good as any I have seen lately. Some of you experts have the skinny on this car so please share. Thanks in advance.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    I believe most people find the styling rather bland. Currently, though, the M45 has the same engine, a better platform, more interior space, and all the technology one could ask for; all for less money. I did not look at the luxury appointments, but I assume the Q beats the M in that regard.

    Wait a couple years and the Q will be redone (hopefully as much as the M was redone).
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Could be but I doubt it, that doesn't happen very often with luxury car makers, in fact the only difference is usually a conversion issue, not specific tweaking for different markets. I can't think of one luxury car that has more power for certain markets and less for others.

    I think you guys may have hyped yourselves up a little to much and were expecting too much. Truthfully though I too expected 500hp, but it would take a miracle to get V6-like fuel economy with 500 horses of any kind.

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Very impressive improvement style-wise, IMO, judging by those photos.
    Long over-due!
    Even the steering wheel looks much better!
    I will be checking out the new LS 460 even though I'm a BMW man.
    Call it natural curiosity.

    I also agree that HELM's will be dominated by MB and Lexus.
    People in this rarified price range usually place luxury over performance, as well they should, and hence, it is not a comfortable segment for BMW to be competing in.

    Thanks for the photo link!
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I will be checking out the new LS even though I'm a BMW man.

    Reading the press release, I would say that there is a huge emphasis on luxury over handling. My guess is that once it hits the showrooms, almost any BMW fan is bound to be disappointed by the LS600.
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