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1) Audi A6
2) BMW 5 series
3) Infiniti M45
4) Jaguar XF
5) 2010 MB E350
They did not have much good to say about the car (compared to competition)
According to car and Driver MB is the car that you buy to impress the neighbours..
Also in SoCal with all the incentives available a base 2009 E350 can be had for 40K..if you can find one.
there are better choices out there for the money and prestige...
unless you have to have three-pointed-star to boost your ego...
The point being, I take all the car reviews with a grain of salt. The reviewer generally looks at how well-engineered the car is. But good engineering does not always equal reliability.
I had a 1995 infiniti...lasted 14 years/140000 miles. All I did was regular maintainence and finally sold it last year only because I got bored of it....
My wifes 2000 infiniti has 9 years/85000 miles no problems at all....so my experience with infiniti has been good.
Last year I test drove (extensively) bunch of cars including (MB E class) and was underwhelmed by it...In fact to me (for the money) Genesis felt a better deal.
Well, talk to i.d., Markcinncinnati on these boards (usually an Audi board) who's on his 30-some+ Audi.
I've had three of them and would not hesitate to buy another; it's only a question of when.
And that's also true of every Audi driver among my friends & coworkers. They all lease.
I had an absolutely horrific Audi ownership experience back in the 1980s. Still, I'd give the brand another chance - if I could meet a couple of long-term owners.
I won't buy a car unless I can be reasonably confident that I'll get 8 years of service from it. My BMW 330i turned 8 a couple of months ago. It looks & runs like new, so I'll probably hang onto it for another 2 years.
What will I buy next? Don't know yet. I'd like to put Audi on my short list - they're making some very attractive cars these days - but before I do that, I'll have to know more about how well the brand ages.
Any luxury/high price car is a better deal used.
1) Clearly there is no relatonship between purchase price and ownership satisfaction. In fact, for some people the more they pay for a car, the crazier they get if they have a problem. Take a look at the posts on the MB S Class site by a guy who paid 140K for an S63, had his air conditioner compressor fail, and it will take MB a month to get him one. In the interim they will "only" give him an E Class to drive. This guy is almost beside himself with anger.
2) Moreover, not only is there no relationship between purchase price and customer satisfaction, there is no relationship between purchase price and reliability/longevity of the vehicle. A BMW 7 Series or an S Class will not last any longer than a Chevy Malibu. In fact, given the complex electronics, a 12 year old 7 Series or S Class may be at the end of its economic life. The idea of buying an S Class as you hit 60 and driving off into the sunset with it is outmoded.
If you agree with me on a lack of a relationship between purchase price and happiness and purchase price and reliability/longevity, what are we left with? Probably the "sweet spot" is on that CD list of the five best cars for 50K!,
On a personal note, we recently added a new 2009 Volvo XC to our fleet (Porsche Cayenne, 2001 XC, 2008 Silverado, 1987 Grand Cherokee Wagoneer, etc) and love it. We paid 35K for it, got 5 years of free maintenance and factory warranty and couldn't be happier.
Why buy those German symbols of big egos and get a Japanese symbol of both ego and success?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
A comparably equipped XF is less money than a 5 Series and will be utterly trouble free. You will never even get to know the Service Writers first name. An XJ is perhaps 25K less than the S Class and has won numerous JD Power Awards for not only relibility but also the dealer experience,
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Be smart buy the E-Class if you want a luxury car that costs around $50k to start and the S-Class if you want a car "in the same class" but far more superior to the LS
I had a couple of free hours last night and I stopped in at a central MA Lexus dealership. The sales guys were remarkably well informed and seemingly had all done tours of duty at other high end dealerships selling competing brands. In short, they had good product knowledge.
It looked like a new Lexus LS compares very favorably against an S Class. Not only is the list price of 74K with AWD a lot less than a comparable S Class, but apparently the Lexus dealer has a 12% profit margin and so can discount the car. Not so on an MB where the dealer has I think only a 6% profit margin and can't offer much of a discount. As a result the transaction price on the LS is significantly lower than list price. Moreover, not only would you pay less, the LS retains far more of its list price three years later. Mercedes engineering? Their AWD system apparently doesn't hold up when bolted to their 7 speed tranny, so an S Class with fourmatic doesn't have the 7 speed but I think a 5 speed. Lexus bolts its class leading 8 speed tranny to both 2WD and AWD. This makes you wonder a little about the long term reliability of the MB tranny. When you throw in the superior Lexus customer service and the better reliability a new LS seemss to be a much better value proposition than a new S Class.
But, as I walked around the LS, I couldn't help but think that somehow it wasn't the real thing. No tradition, no heritage. I thought of a polyester shirt vs. a 100 % cotton shirt. I think that for 70K you could either buy today a new left over 2009 LS (or wait a couple of months and buy a new 2010) or a used 2008 S Class. I think I'd rather have the S Class and have the heritage, tradition, etc.dumb as it may seem.
could it be a good value used car? some have 12 cylinders! Fun!
C&D recently did a "best cars for under $20k, used or new" - and
one was a ~1990s 12 cylinder Benz with high mileage. Also fun.
Hopefully cars like the above are eligible for discussion here unless there is a model-year restriction ?! cheers.
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I am considering purchasing it primarily because I like the interior better than the new model and it is in pristeen condition. But, should I lease a new 750li, can I do better leasing the 2009 with $6000 off in incentives (plus dealer negotiation) with a lower residual OR leasing the 2010 with a higher residual? Confused . . .
1) Your 750iL has low miles so you would be "giving" them away for free if you turned the car back in.
2) You now can get an AWD 7 Series so this is different from an apples to apples comparison between old vs new if you live in the Northeast and value getting home every night in January and February.
3) can you purchase an extended warranty on your present 750iL?
4) Given the horendous resale on a 7 Series, a 6K discount on a now-one year old model is a joke. Gosh, its already depreciated maybe 20K!
I think you should do a lot more research and analysis on this because some significant $$$ are at stake.
PS I don't agree with JP Morgan, benzessman, or Kirstie H, the Host, that asking for complete data to make an informed decision implies that you can't afford to play and that somehow you are a lesser mortal. Everyone in the car biz knows that a car purchase is 80% emotion and this angle is emphasized. (If you take emotion out of the picture why would anyone in the US buy a Range Rover, for example???).
I'm continually struck by the tendency of a lot of people to casually drive over to a car dealership on a Saturday afternoon, impulsively make a deal, and come home committed to a long term agreement that may not suit them. This is especially true of the leasing crowd.
I could've purchased a really nifty BMW 635csi for about $3K a couple of years ago. In that instance, purchase price should not have been my main concern. I would've likely spent well over the $3K in repairs by now. I was merely pointing out that not all "good deals" are as good for the buyer as they might seem to be.
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We've gone to edmunds, etc, priced out the model w/the exact options we want and have sent requests for quotes to several dealers. Nonetheless, I always feel as though I'm walking in to a shell game anytime I walk in to a dealer and never quite certain I've avoided unnecessary and conspicuously labeled cost gimmicks.
any and all wisdom (and honesty) greatly appreciated...
The jury is out, and you will get lots of different opinions. First, and most important, be patient. Look around, not just locally. The internet has made it very easy to find anything, anywhere. Not that you have to go far, but work the numbers with a few different dealers. It helps to stop in once a give them a face with the name, just don't get emotional. Agreed, edmunds is a good place to start, then use the forums here to see what's going on now. It helps if you convey confidence and understanding of the sales bs, that is out there. Once you narrow it down, make an aggressive offer. Now turn the tables by telling them you'll think about it. You can counter and walk away at anytime. Again, be patient!
This industry is having a tough time, without being rude, you can definately get a better than average deal if you're patient and push it.
Good luck
Your advice is right on.
There is really nothing to add to it other than that when one does go to the dealership, go at a time good for you, i.e, not when you are stressed or rushed.
Additionally, I think you should go well dressed which is not hard to do given what most Americans think is appropriate to wear when spending 50K. Going well dressed with a Wall St Journal under your arm to read when the sales guy leaves to talk with his "manager" will give you more self confidence. It will also communicate to one and all that you are not the average slob in a sweatshirt and jeans. In all likelihood you are better educated and better paid than any "sales consultant" you might meet and it might help to communicate to communicate that.
Finally, if you go during service hours, why don't you ask for a tour of the service area and ask to meet the service manager, not a service writer? This will throw them a little off balance and elevate you in everyone's eyes. There is tension between the sales guys and the service people and it would be interesting to get their reaction to your request.
So now I have 3 written quotes from 3 dealers for a 535x drive:
Dealer 1: $58,500 USD (includes the options I want); discounted to $54,000
Dealer 2: $57,500 USD (also includes options); discounted to $53,500
Dealer 3: $58,000 MSRP (includes options, not color pref); discounted to $52,500...this car is also from their 2010 loaner pool and has 2,700 miles.
Have gotten the Edmunds comparator and these numbers all net out consistent w/Edmunds.
So my question is about what you mean by be "aggressive." Is there still room for these folks to improve their offers? I don't want to be rude, but I also don't want to overpay and would like for once to feel as though I've gotten a "better than average deal" as blckislandguy says above.
Thank you so much again in advance for any additional advice.
Regards...
Any thoughts on my last email to you?
Thanks again in advance!
If you took and additional $1500 off their offer, they would quickly come down an additional $1000 to $51500 and probably break your arm trying to get your check. HOWEVER , I am not sure that the $2000 savings over a brand new car is worth it because the loaner's warranty clock is already ticking.
Thanks,
Chintan
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
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Last year, Hyundai introduced the new EQUUS, then later the EQUUS limousine.
Hyundai official website announced a price from 70 MWon, pretty
Anytime I see one here, I wonder why some people prefer to buy a Mercedes twice the price of the Korean car.
Do you know if a technical comparative analysis was done with a BMW, a Lexus or a Mercedes?
searchprobiz
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
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The other small annoyance is a rattle from the rear sunroof. I took a trip to DC and everytime I hit uneven road or a bump of any sort it rattles. It seems that there is either a design flaw or some shipping material wasnt removed prior to delivery. Taking it back to the dealership for that to be taken care of this Friday.
I have owned 4 Mercedes Benz's, 2 S Classes ( one of which I still own), an 03 SL500, and a 2010 E350 that my wife drives. Mercedes is far from perfect too mind you. The reason I owned two S classes is the 01 I bought was such a lemon I made the dealer buy it back and they put me in an 02.
All in all, the new XJL is a bargain compared to everything else on the market right now. To get the features I have in the XJL I have to get a new S500 with hearly every available option or an S600. We're talking 109-123k minimum for the Mercedes outfitted like the Jag.
For the 33k or so I saved, not to mention the Platinum service program, I'm very pleased with the car. Other than the minor annoyances I think Jaguar is on the road back to stardom.
By the way I'm 47 so I'm fairly young. Prior to this years incarnation I wouldn't even say the word Jaguar, much less buy one.
Now if there isn't a forum for the 2011 xj, can someone please tell me how to start one? its been years since I've been on Edmunds and everything has changed..lol
Please email pr@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, March 31, 2011 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience.
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