Yup small world indeed. Some day we should all come out and chat. You two should also come out to Krispy Kreme meets once in a while.
Speaking of aftermarket products, oh yeah I agree that it should be no argument that if the CV joint blew they can't blame your chip.....what, cuz it caused the engine to spin the wheels a lot faster during acceleration? LOL. I wish though, Audi has an official aftermarket company, like BMW has Dinan that actually provides a more comprehensive warranty than BMW's if they've done mod work for you. M-B actually sells the finished AMG products.....that's fine with me too if Audi does the same thing.
Samuel70, you can also try asking the 02 A4 owners on www.audiworld.com about their opinions on the 02 A4s.
The automatic feels weak compared to the stick. Go for the Manual, the clutch is so effortless and smooth you'll forget it's there. BTW, The 1.8T stick could use a 6th gear if you're prone to driving in the 80mph+ range, but if you are comfortable cruising at 65 to 75 don't worry (the car is super quiet). I actually appreciate the high revs over 65mph because they keep me in check on the highway when I'm driving the kids around. I have a SAAB, and it feels out of rhythm unless you're doing 80. Enjoy
Serious question. I was going to get a Passat GLX V6 variant (wagon). I went to the Porsche, Audi, VW dealer here in Sarasota and saw some new A4's. One was Red Avant (wagon) with a 1.8T and a manual transmission.
The question is...Am I better buying the Loaded VW (W8 excluded) or the semi Base A4?
I drive about 30-36,000 miles per year. Am I better off highway driving with the VW V6 or the Audi 1.8T? I noticed on the 1.8t I tested I was at like 3,000 rpm in 5th doing 60 mph. What's the rpm range going to be at 80 mph?
Need some pros and cons. I'm making my salesman nutso because I almost said ok to the GLX today but wanted to "see" the Audi.
By the way, there's a Joe Hoppen Motorsport, Inc. here in Sarasota. Are there a bunch of them or am I near the only one?
Dave, If driving at 4000 rpm's (80mph) will bug you, get the V6 Passat. but aside from that and a little more room in the VW, the A4 wins in every other respect.
If a W8 Passat is available at a VW/Audi dealer and it is an "Avant" and it is less than $40,000 MSRP (no dealer markup) -- I would HAVE to at least look and test drive it.
The Passat should be bigger than an A4, smaller than an A6 and less money than an A4 3.0 -- and have an 8 cylinder engine to boot!
I have a Y2K 2.8 A4, and have not had one problem at all. I had many more problems with my Camry and Prelude in the same time period I have owned the A4 (2-1/2 years and almost 30,000 miles). If I were to get a new car right now, I would go with the new A4. No other car comes close to it as far as I am concerned. My husband has a Y2K Acura 3.2TL, and has had numerous problems in the same time period and mileage period as my A4, and said that if the A4 came with a better navigation system, he'd trade his car in. I personally don't like the looks of the Mercedes, and if the Mercedes board is claiming unreliability, I wouldn't consider it.
You should really go to www.audiworld.com. They are the experts on Audi, and can answer all your questions and doubts.
I love my car and am thrilled to own it! Good luck!
I cant seem to find a New Car Dealer Inventory Search, does anyone have any idea's ? Doing a dealer search from AudiUSA only get's you a map to the dealer.
Did you mean you want to see what the new car inventory the dealer has? I think that depends on dealership, if they would like to show that in their webpage. If I were you I'll definitely call them directly. Even if they have a webpage showing their inventory, you would not know how frequent they update it.
Dave, I was in the same position you are. i drove the Pasat wagon first and was intending on buying it, but decided I wanted to test drive the Audi first. I had heard and assumed that the A4-Passat relationship was like the Lexus ES-Camry relationship, i.e. strip away bells and whistles and you have the same car.
That really isn't the case here. The Passat has the feeling of a very comfortable family car with exceptional fit and finish. The Audi has a "sportier" feel and corners/handles much better. For roughly the same price, the VW will give you leather, a V6 (although with just a smidge more power than the 1.8T), power seats, and a bit more room (mostly rear legroom). The Audi will give you superior handling, higher grade interior materials, better exterior looks (subjective), included regular maintence, and generally a better dealer/service network.
They are both fine cars. Drive them both back to back if you can.
Yes i meant New vehicle's in inventory, ive allready driven one , just like to view the inventory instead of calling a lot or driving by, i dont want to contact them again until im ready to buy.
You are exactly right on your synopsis (Whoah, I'm way too tired to be using words like that right now). I basically want an A4 3.0 on a GLX 2.8 budget. I guess the 2.8 is the old A4 V6, right? The new A4 avant looks awesome. I just can't see myself "Buzzing" down the road in a 1.8T with "Leatherette". And to the "Materialistic-Stricken" of the bunch...Yes I can afford a 3.0 but it is not a smart choice due to the fact that I drive 30-36,000 miles per year. It is just simply a waste of money to put that many miles on a nice car like that. I guess I'm leaning back towards the GLX. Smoother and a better "Family Truckster" (lol). I like the memory seats and other whistles. I need the car for both my business and family. Maybe someday, when I don't need to tote my business stuff up and down the highway so much I could get and enjoy a sedan with a stick to sport around town with.
I sold my 97 A4 2.8Q and purchased a G35. While I really do like the new A4, especially the cabriolet, I needed something with more back seat room.
I had to get an auto for the wife and something big enough to put child seats in (very difficult in the 97). I was leaning towards the Passat, but when I drove the G35 it was all over. I was very impressed that I could get that performance out of a relatively large vehicle with an auto.
The non-sport package with light color leather and wood really makes the interior look elegant reminded me of my 99.5 A6Q (sold that a while ago)
Anyway with all the new cars coming out you really can’t go wrong just need to find one that is suited for you.
Hungrywhale and Brianm8: I have had radio issues too. I saw on this board that someone removed the radio fuse (with car off), wiped the contacts and replaced it into the slot and they had no more problems. I have not had a chance to try it, I may do it this morning when I get home from work. Yes, I am a Vampire and it is not as bad working at night as you may think. I'll keep you posted as to my radio adventures. Brian
That would be me. It happened to me around a month after I got the car. Radio just quit on me one morning. Thought blown fuse but it looks fine. All I could think of was to clean the fuse contacts, flip it around (printed numbers were upside down but that should not make a difference), and fire it up. Worked since then.
They said they ordered me a new stereo and they'll call when it comes in. My stereo still works fine, though. I only mentioned the flashing display to see if they'd heard of it.
I'm looking at a '97 A4 2.8Q with 97K. The owner was forthcoming with a "small" oil leak. I had it checked over by a local mechanic who informed me that I should stay away from this one. He said that it had a "high" oil leak coming from the rear of the engine and a leaky rear dif. Is this a sure sign that the car was abused or would it be worth putting a couple of G's into getting it fixed?
Hi everyone, first of all, I just want to say that I think this forum is really cool. I've been reading some of the past threads and I love how all of you are so helpful and passionate about your cars. I've been learning a lot from you guys! Ok, so because of this, I would like to ask for your advice. I'm planning to buy an A4 1.8tQ very soon. I have a couple questions and if you guys could help me out I would totally appreciate it.
First off... I know I'm going to risk sounding very stupid saying this but... I am planning to get a manual because I always told myself that my next car would be a stick... buuut... I don't really know how to drive stick yet... I know, I know, how can I say I love cars and NOT know how to drive stick?!! I've been asking myself that same question. Ok, so, I've asked some friends to teach me, but I know they are all hesitant to teach me in their own cars (and understandably so) or not available to teach me. So the option I seem to be left with is to rent a manual and learn on it very quickly (at least the basics) or learn on my new car! (which is needless to say... ahhh!) I have read on this forum many times that the manual A4s are very easy to drive and very smooth (and a necessity), so I wouldn't mind learning on it, but of course I'd be hurting my new baby! So do you guys have any suggestions? Is it completely horrible to learn stick on my new car?!-- Plus this means I’ll probably have to have someone drive it home for me
Ok, second question I know many of you are in the NW, mid-west, or east coast, but I'm in the Los Angeles area and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with any of the dealerships in the LA area. I’ve called many of the dealerships in Southern California, and even spoke to some in the Bay Area (but of course that doesn’t seem to be better). One of the dealerships I checked out can get me a black/black 1.8tQ, manual with xenons, roof, and sport package. Originally, I just wanted to have xenons and roof (on a budget), but that combo is almost impossible to find without the sport. And after reading many of the comments on this forum it seems that there is a general consensus that sport is almost a “must-have” anyway. So, I decided, maybe I could work it in. So the dealership (Downtown LA Motors) is giving me a good deal, I believe, especially for California. What price is good though? Does anyone know anything about this dealership or if there are any pros/cons to them? Honestly, this is the first time I’ll be going to purchase a car myself, and I’m kind of being very cautious. I don’t want to get my hopes up about this dealership and/or price, and then find out that it’s shady or there are side fees or whatever I don’t know about. Is there anything I should look out for in particular? Also, any comments regarding my option combo or color would be much appreciated.
Third question to all those people who have posted about problems with their A4s (or people who just want to answer anyway), despite problems with the 2nd gear, sunroof noise, trunk, etc. that I’ve read about, are you guys totally happy with your A4s? Like no regrets?
Ok I think that’s it for now. Sorry this was so long, I just want to be thorough with my research before making such a big purchase. And I know that you guys have all been through this before and therefore can lend your experiences to me. Thank you so much! I'll be anticipating your responses!
Has anyone compared the ride of the A4 versus the 325i? Consumer Reports says that the A4 is "jittery" at low speed, but better at highway speed. I like the look of the A4, the features of the cabin, and the power of the 3.0.
Diana-- I've taught numerous people how to drive a stick and contrary to what some might think, driving a stick isn't really that difficult. I've found that those who have a difficulty in initially learning to drive a manual, it ususally turns out to be more of a mental block rather than the physical ability to coordinate using a clutch and shifter. I don't know if you've snow skied (downhill type) or not but here in the Northwest, many of us do. When first learning to ski, a rope tow is usually used to get up to an elevation where you have enough slope in order to ski down. So I use the analogy of the rope tow to illustrate what using a clutch is all about. You let the rope slightly slip between your hands as you gradually increase your grip until you are grasping the rope tightly and being pulled up the hill. If you were to immediately grab tightly on to the moving rope without first letting it slip slightly through your hands, you'd end up getting jolted off-balance and in all probability, end up sprawled on the ground.
So to analogize: To get the car moving, you let the clutch pedal up enough while supplying some pressure to the accelerator pedal to slip the clutch slightly until it engages and starts to make the car move. Just as with the rope tow, if you don't slip the clutch slightly and just let it ubruptly engage, you'll kill the engine just as you were thrown off the rope if you didn't let it slip slightly between your hands. The trick is to minimize this "slipping" action as much as possible while at the same time trying to be as smooth as possible while launching the car. The excessive slipping is what wears out the clutch ...to analogize again, if you were to excessively let the rope slip between your hands on the rope tow, you'd quickly burn a hole in your gloves (or your skin if not wearing gloves or mittens *lol*). The engagement point of a clutch can vary by manufacturer and even from car to car so it takes a little adjusting when driving another car than the one you are used to. Changing gears by using the cluch while the car is moving is much easier, of course.
I think it's possible for you to drive your new A4 home directly from the dealership if you've got the principles of the mechanics in your mind. Especially if the terrain from the dealership to your house is flat and you choose a time when traffic is not very busy. Practicing launching the car on a steep hill is something you'll probably want to do afterwards once you've had the chance to get used to the clutch a bit. I read a post over on AudiWorld a few months ago where a guy in the same situation as you're in drove his brand new A4 home from the dealership without ever having driven a manual. I'd probably suggest that you find an relatively empty parking lot or something just to experiment a bit before taking it out on the street, however. I don't think you'll have too much success in finding a rental car with a stick but there might be one somewhere. My personal preference would be for you to talk a friend into letting you drive his/her car around a parking lot somewhere in advance of picking up your new car. Also, clutches can withstand some abuse so it's not likely you'll do a great amount of damage if you excessively slip the clutch or kill the engine a few times.
Concerning options, etc., if you are really cost conscious and you don't need the car immediately, I'd suggest you factory order the car. Most Audi dealers seem quite amenable to custom ordering for their customers out of their allocation. It might be few months before you have your "baby" but you'll have exactly what you want. I'm in the minority here for I don't necessarily believe the sport package in the new '02 A4 is for everybody. The standard suspension is supposedly equal to the pre-'02 sport suspension and with the 16" upgrade would probably be an ideal combination for those who want comfort and excellent handling ...plus, you'll save a few bucks ordering it this way. Xenons and quattro, however, are a must!
As far as LA area dealerships, you might want to join us and pose that question over on the ClubA4 forums for I know there are a lot of Socal members there and also the moderator is from Socal. Click here for the ClubA4 ForumsAudiWorld would also be a good place to get input about dealerships and the kind of deals that are being made in your area. I think in California, there are certain mandatory state fees that are tacked on to the final negotiated price so I'll let someone else comment on that. In Washington, where I'm located, nothing but sales tax and license fees are required to be added onto the final negotiated price. However, no matter where you're located, added dealer mark up items such as prep fees, etc., or any second sticker items should be disregarded and/or absorbed into the negotiated price. Use the Edmunds calculators to determine the invoice price and the TMV in your area and be sure you're negotiating from the invoice price up ...in-other-words, as a percentage over invoice price. Use this method consistently as you shop for it's the only way you can accurately compare prices. There is no holdback on Audis so you'll definitely be paying above invoice but how much over invoice will depend on your area's supply and demand. For example, here in Washington state, we're paying somewhere in the 4.5-7.0% range over invoice for A4s.
As you probably know, Audis have free maintenace during the first four years so your maintenance and repair costs will be very minimal during the first few years of ownership. But as you also know, Audis are not rated as reliable as Japanese brands so if you plan on keeping the car for a long time, you'll in all likelihood have repair costs exceeding most Japanese cars. We all know this going in so it's the compromise we're willing to take in having a German made and engineered car which has that certain character that just puts a smile on our faces each time we're behind the wheel. I test drove many Japanese luxury cars before I bought my B5 A4 and none seemed as fun to drive and your car will be even more fun to drive! Yes, there's more of a possibility of things going wrong with an Audi than say a Lexus or Infiniti but I don't regret my decision.
Good luck and if you have any other questions, ask away. There are many more participants here that are much more knowledgeable than I am and hopefully they'll respond too.
First of all, a round of *applause* for Rocco. His 2 cents worth a lot more than that.
I just wanna add something. Knowing how to drive a stick shift car is not a prerequisite for loving cars. My B5 01.5 A4 is a stick but I had not owned a stick shift car before. It'd sound funny, but I learned stick shift from a VW dealer about 4 years ago when I had absolutely no idea I will own an Audi now. After that, it's just on and off stick shift "self-taught" lessons from test driving with friends. Like Rocco said, learning stick shift is not difficult. However, it takes some practice to make it as smooth as automatic. I'd recommend you to drive your new baby home with a friend who knows how to drive a manual car and he/she can give you some pointers on the way. After you start to pick up, you can go practice on your own, starting from a slope, rev matching, etc.. Plus the new clutch needs some break-in anyway *wink*.
I had been to the LA area and DEFINITELY get the sports pkg. The only thing that held me back here in Chicago not to get it was that it comes with summer high perf tires and it lowered the ride height, which means I'd definitely need winter tires and I don't want to be the "Snow Plough of the Back Alley". Over in LA you guys got some nice twists and definitely no snow to worry about. I'd slap myself in the face for not getting it if I were in LA. And yes, definitely Quattro, sunroof and xenons.
About color combo, I LOVE the Dolphin Grey with the Platinum interior. Definitely brings out the classy looks and the brushed aluminum. I would say black/black in LA might be a little too warm under the sun (coworker got a new Passat with black/black and it was TOASTY getting in her car when it was 88F a few days ago), but hey, if you like that color combo, you should get it.
And no regrets whatsoever. To be honest, I wanted a BMW 325ci. However, after looking at the price/value for the money, $5k over the Audi with comparable equipment minus Quattro AWD, I said no. My girlfriend supported me of the idea but warned me that I better don't whine if I don't like the A4 down the road and want to get the BMW 325ci instead. Nope, and in fact, if I were to do it again, I still won't go for the 325ci.
And yes, definitely check with the guys at www.AudiWorld.com. There are quite a large audience from SoCal there and I'm sure you can find more advice from people there.
A couple more cents (pretty soon, you may accumulate enough for a downpayment!) to add to Rocco and Billy's excellent comments:
Learning to drive a stick is not brain surgery. It does take some coordination between when your right (clutch) foot comes up and when your left (gas) foot goes down. It also requires you to pay more attention to the engine speed. For the first few days, I would recommend driving with the radio off. listen to the engine and get to know it - it will quickly become obvious to you when to shift. You will stall the engine a few (maybe more than a few) times, but that's OK. A few times you will get a loud raspy sound of the gears not engaging properly, and that's OK too. You will get nervous whenever you have to stop on a hill, but after a few stalls, you'll learn to cope. The main point is that there are no doubt many things that you do in life that are harder and more complicated than driving a stick. It's just another skill, one that has been learnable by some of the complete idiots that you see on the road al the time. You are also not going to do any horrible damage to the car while learning. Maybe the clutch will expire a few thousand miles before it otherwise would have - so what?
As far as options, I have dolphin/platinum which I think looks great. The only color I would avoid is anything with the beige interior, which just does not look right with the aluminum accents in the 1.8T. You will have a hard time getting an A4 without a sunroof. I did not get the sports pack, but I live in occasionally slushy Cincinnati and did not want to bother with dedicated winter tires. Despite my comments above, I have an automatic - I've done the stick thing an decided I would rather be lazy. Xenons are grea and make a big difference in visibility. The Premium Package is about $300 and worth it for the autodimming mirrors alone (so as not to be blinded by the headlights of the SUV behind you).
Finally, after about a month of driving it I can say that I love this car, and everyone who has ridden in it has been equally impressed (including my 4 year old:) ). Handling, interor, ride, and comfort are all top-notch. While the car is not cheap by any means, it is an excellent value for the money.
First of all I wanted to thank all of you folks on this board! It was by reading your posts a year ago when I decided to get my (FIRST) german car. The first year with the A4 has been awsome, rock solid reliability, always fun to drive, kicks butt in the snow! I had driven acuras before but by no means do they have near the soul of a AUDI. I like most AUDI owners, considerd a BMW 325. Though they to are great car's I found myself a bit disappointed with the test drive. The Bimmers handling was excellent however I found the acceleration to be a bit lacking. I dont know if it's the altitude here (Denver) or what but it needed the turbo boost my A4 has! I also prefer the AUDI interor hands down. I now love all German cars but I think Audi has more to offer for less money than BMW more features+quattro+awsome engineering. BMW has added AWD as an after thought but AUDI'S are made around Quattro from the ground up. AUDI'S the winner in my book! Thanks again fellow AUDI owners.
It's too bad you don't live in Chicago or I would show you how to drive stick. It really is simple to do, it just takes a bit of practice to be really smooth.
I've taught a few people to drive stick before, and I make them do one thing before driving. Put the car in first and, with your foot off the gas, let out the clutch pedal as slowly as you can. At some point the car will start to move. This is where the clutch starts to engage and it is important that you learn where it is. Do this 5 or 6 times so you become familiar with it. You probably want to do this in a parking lot where you can pay more attention to the tachometer than what's in front of you. Now you're ready to drive. Your goal is to have the RPMs at around 1000 when the clutch starts to engage, then you will notice that they are going to drop as the clutch engages. You need to modulate the gas pedal so that the RPMs stay above 1000 RPM but below 2000 RPM until you've completely let the clutch pedal out. Once you can do that easily, aim for a max of 1500 RPM. Once you do that, work on letting the clutch out faster and faster. Now you're ready to drive on the streets, no more than 2 hours after you've first driven stick. If you keep it below 2000 and then 1500 RPM while you learn engagement, clutch wear will be minimal - your friends have nothing to worry about.
I do have a question for those with the 1.8T manual. When cruising at 80mph in 5th, what are the engine RPM? I remember someone saying 4000 or so, but that seemed really high and I didn't know if it was accurate. My Focus is at about 3250 and I think that's high. My bro-in-law's Monte Carlo cruises at 80 at less than 2000 RPM!
I think I saw 3800rpm on 5th gear at 80mph. Then it's 3400rpm at 75mph. It's high because the 1.8T engine is a small displacement engine with only 1.8L. The norm is, the smaller the displacement, usually the higher it needs to rev. The Focus has a 2.0L Zetec engine, right? So yeah, it spins at a slightly lower speed. The Monte Carlo got the 3.8L engine and therefore it revs a lot slower.
'rocco- i think you're totally right... it's more of a mental thing than a physical thing when you're trying to learn manual. I'm always afraid of ruining my friends' cars when I try to learn (i've only tried twice though) so that I end up leaving the driver's seat in less than 10-15 minutes. In my mind, I'm too worried about the car that I don't end up even really concentrating on the mechanisms or getting a feel for the car. But now that you guys have given me pointers on how to learn the basics and also said that it's not too bad for the car if I stall a few times, I feel a bit more at ease.
Also, I kind of need to get a car soon because I got into an accident (someone hit me up in Tahoe—my goodness that ordeal was such a hassle) and I need to be able to get around. So, I'm trying not to rush into buying this car as much as I can, (which is why I'm asking you guys a lot of these questions), but I do need the car pretty soon. Otherwise I would think about ordering it too.
When I called the dealerships I did ask for a percentage over invoice, and *I believe* the invoice for this car is $27,126 (according to edmunds) and if so, this dealer is giving it to me for around 4.5% over invoice. I just got the total out-the door price today and that would be just shy of $31,000. Sooo... this is a pretty good deal for California right? No other dealership could give me a price as good as this, at least the ones I've checked so far. Now I just need to decide if I’m really going to do this, and if this is the one I want.
Billy- yeah I do like the dolphin grey (as do many other people it seems), but I kinda wanted to save that color for a different car I want in the future I do think the black/black will be really hot too... and I'm kind of worried about that... I don't think they have many other colors with this combo of options though (around here at least). I just saw a crystal blue yesterday too... and I kinda like it! any thoughts about this color??
Rick- do you mean right (gas) foot and left (clutch) foot??
Brian- that's really nice of you to offer to teach me! thanks! and thanks for the details about rpms. That should be very helpful for me (when I convince someone to let me learn on their car!)
Everyone- thanks so much for all your comments and helpful suggestions. I really appreciate all you have to say. And if anyone else wants to add anything, please do. I would love to hear and learn more.
You sound really excited. That's great, but be careful with those dealers! Keep checking your calculator. If you're getting the car you described at 4-5% over invoice and the just under 31,000 includes tax and license it sounds like a great deal. I think California also requires a $45 document fee.
I decided to place an order because I wanted an Avant and there weren't many to choose from--I would have been stuck with a lot of options I didn't want--plus too few dealers seemed willing to negotiate.
Southern California is the place to have the sport package. I wanted it too at first until I found out I'd need an extra set of winter tires.
I think you're going to love this car, and I think it's great that you want to teach yourself to drive a manual. More women should. If you want to be able to, you'll figure it out.
My wife and I just got the 1.8T with a stick and it's a blast to drive! Like others on the board we went with 16" tires vs 17's and the sport package. That's because we live in the Northeast. If I were in Cali, I'd definitely go with the Sport Package and 17" tires.
As far as learning to drive stick on a new car, go for it. I learned back in '90 (My wife taught me!) when we bought our first new car as a couple, which was an Acura Integra. The first gear in the Integra really had to be finessed, and I still managed. BTW, I still have the car, and have yet to replace the clutch! This, despite spending a few awkward days learning how to shift gears. The 2002 A4 1.8T gearing is so smooth and the clutch so effortless, that you'll have a much easier time.
One last comment, if you are a stickler for perfection and dust/scratches on your finish bothers you, get Silver. Dolphin Gray is beautiful, but it's almost as bad as dark colors when it comes to showing dirt and scratches. Down side to silver is that you'll have a hard time finding your car in the parking lot. Seems like everyone is buying silver cars nowadays.
I agree with awaltc that silver is the easiest to keep it clean.....that's why at least mine and Rocco's are silver :> However, the thing is, if dolphin grey is available for pre 02, I'd definitely get it. Plus I like to give my baby a wash a week, so to me it's no big deal. The one thing I'd hate is the winter road salt on the dolphin grey color if I were to get one. It'd make it look weird, darker on top, lighter color on bottom. Denim blue and crystal blue look nice too but definitely it'll take some effort to keep it look gorgeous. Another good thing about dolphin grey is, it kinda camouflages the dark plastic lower panels, which i think it takes up way too much area of the body.
I got mine at McDonald and have been happy. Their service dept. isn't as good as Infiniti's (wife has an I30), but still better than most.
I think the 1.8T A4 is faster up here than the 325i is (or at least as fast). I'd love to see a 325i do what I did last summer - myself, one passenger, and a full backseat and trunk full of camping gear (at least a few hundred pounds), doing 85+ up I-70 in 5th gear. I got to Glenwood Springs from Denver in under 2 hours (I think it was about 1 hour 45 min). That turbo hauls a** up in the mountains where normally aspirated engines really lose their giddy-up. And Quattro was outstanding this winter, even with the stock all-seasons.
I wanted to address a few of your issues as well. I have had my black/black 02 1.8Q 5sp for 2 months now and have learned alot about my purchase decisions.
1) Black on black is very cool looking but brutally hot when it's hot out. We just had 3 days of record +90 degree heat (april!!)here in CT. and I am facing 3 summers ahead. We currently have another black car but with beige leather and I am convinced it makes huge difference in keeping the interior cooler. In the 1.8, Beige looks horrendous with the aluminum trim so that leaves grey which is a nice way to go. As mentioned before dark colors are tough to maintain but I'm ones of those who likes to "detail" so I'd be doing it regardless. Upside of black is it hides what I consider to be a design flaw - the Aztek /Cross Country-like body side molding. What a cheap looking, visually grating, down right poor decision to add this design idea.
2) Sport suspension - as mentioned before consider the fact that Audi admits the current standard suspension is as stiff as the pre "02 models "sport suspension" that's pretty stiff so I'd really drive both types and determine if the extra money is worth it. Not making a judgment call but someone who has never driven a standard is most likely not the most aggressive driver -yet- so maybe the already performance oriented base suspesnion wil be enough. I choose not to purchase the sport because: a) 16" option is enough grip with the already stiff standard susp and quattro b)I did not want to buy snow tires and because truthfully c)the roads where I live are so terribly maintined, potholes, frost heaves etc, that the Sport suspension is an extremely, extremely uncomfortable ride to the point where I might choose not to buy the car if it was the only option offered. Now I must admit that LA is probalby nowhere similar in road condition so maybe itw worth it.
3) Learning to drive a 5 speed - I know that several local driving schools here offer the choice of standard or auto so give a few in your area a call.
4) I paid 4.1% over invoice so I think your geting a great deal to and remeber to alwasy shop at the end of the month - it makes a big difference in price no what anyone tells you.
I bought my A4 at Prestige Imports both the sales and service department are excellent. The strange thing about turbo's is that they do indeed seem to be oblivious to high altitude.I've driven cars with far bigger engines over mountain passes and they've doged down big time compared to my A4.I remember someone telling turbo's were originaly engineered for airplanes which might explain their mountain climbing ability.
Glad to hear you like Prestige. I wanted to buy my car from them, but I live in the Tech Center and didn't want to have to drive all the way up there when I've got McDonald close by.
My previous car before the A4 was a Prelude with a stick. I remember when I bought the Prelude new, there was a three month wait, unless I wanted a 5 speed. Since I didn't know how to drive a 5 speed, and the only one I knew that could drive one was my brother, I asked for his assistance. After one drive, my brother and I almost got divorced in the middle of a mall parking lot on an inclined ramp.
After that, I decided it was worth the money to take a few driving lessons with an unbiased person who could teach me how to drive a stick. I went ahead and did that, bought the Prelude with a stick, and loved it for 12 years. Didn't want to go back to an automatic, but got married and the husband didn't want a stick, so we thought the tiptronic was a good compromise.
I suggest go for at least one driving lesson to see if you like it, and just get down the basic principles. You should have no problems after that!
First off, Please.....no blasting me for wanting an automatic! I love 5 speeds but can't drive one anymore because of a left knee injury.
I have a '00 A4 1.8TQ/Tiptronic and am considering a new CVT when my lease is up. I'm not happy with the mileage on my current A4 (especially considering the ridiculous gas prices and the requirement of premium fuel) and am wondering what real world mileage CVT owners are getting. Audi claims the CVT gets better mileage than the Titptronic. I haven't had a chance to drive one, so am also curious as to acceleration, any tranny lag when kicking it to pass, etc.
Any personal experience with the 1.8T CVT will be appreciated.
I haven't test driven an Audi CVT yet. Did a test drive on the Civic CVT and the acceleration feel is just different. You can see the speedometer climbing and yet you don't feel the acceleration.
Good news...You'll get slighly better gas mileage w/o Quattro because your car'll be a hundred something-lbs. lighter.
Bad news...no Quattro, not a big issue in Alabama, I would guess.
I believe the CVT is more efficient mechanically than a regular AT, it should get a little better mileage and acceleration. See what they say at Audiworld.com
Thanks for the input. I received several responses over at AudiWorld, all of which were very positive. So I'll be looking forward to driving one as soon as my dealer gets one in. I've enjoyed the quattro and will miss it, but I'm more concerned with lower weight and better mileage now. Every time I fill up, I cringe knowing where my hard-earned cash is going. These inflated gas prices are such a bunch of crap. It looks like CVT will be the best way to go for me if I decide on another A4.
Denny-- Not to disagree with Andy or to dispute what you are thinking but I'm gong to throw in my $0.02 again.
Those whom are familiar with my posts in the past know that I'm a proponent of quattro regardless of whether the car will be driven in snow or ice. Anyone who disagees should scroll back and read some of Mark's posts about this subject on this forum and the A6 forum.
Yes, the CVT is 188 lbs. lighter than a quattro with Tip but the gas mileage figures reflect only a one (1) mpg difference in both city and highway figures ...20 mpg city/29 mpg highway for the CVT and 19 mpg city/28 mpg highway for the quattro Tip. I'm getting these figures straight from the AoA web site:
Personally, I'd gladly give up that one (1) mpg difference for the advantages that quattro affords. I truly believe that quattro should define Audi. Subaru now markets all their vehicles in North America with AWD and I really desire that Audi would do the same. I know I'm not alone with this thought for many Audi enthusiasts have expressed similar sentiments. What's an Audi without quattro??? If I were in charge of running VW AG, the Audi division would produce nothing but quattro equipped cars. I really didn't feel this way until I became an owner of a quattro equipped car. The feeling quattro gives is difficult to explain in writing. It gives me that certain mechanical (?) "oneness" (?) --with the road ...knowing that all four wheels are playing a part in providing motion to the machine. And the feeling that you are glued to the road inspires that certain confidence which I've never experienced in any other vehicle I've owned. Yes, I guess I'm becoming a true quattroholic.
Some other points: quattro, especially here in the NW, traditionally holds its value much more than a FrontTrak would ...almost to the point of making up the extra price you pay for it initially. Who knows if this will continue to be the case with the CVT. The other point is that the CVT is so new in an Audi and such a disappointment when other manufacturers have tried to market it that it is unknown how Audi's will fare as far as reliability, long term driveability and durability. Personally, I'd be nervous about buying one until it is absolutely proven reliable with no adverse longevity concerns. Additionally --even though it's getting much better as advances in engineering progress-- any FWD vehicle will have a certain amount of torque steer in certain situations which can be very annoying. Myself, I don't know if I could ever again own a FWD vehicle for that reason ...you really don't realize it until you do go back to a RWD or AWD vehicle.
You've also probably read over at AudiWorld that the CVT is experiencing hesitation upon initial acceleration. I don't know if this is a widespread problem or if it's just happening on a few select cars but I'd have to assume that it would also be annoying if you happened to get one that did that.
For me personally, I'm a die-hard manual tranny guy. But even if I were considering abandoning manuals, I'd be a little skeptical of the CVT at this point until it has been established and proven reliable.
I just thought I'd give you some food for thought, Denny ...sorry. And flame away folks, I deserve it!
Yes, I'm pitiful ...I'm a quattroholic ...a true quattroholic that needs a manual tranny. *tsk*
I think that's caused by a program intentionally installed by the Audi engineers.
Think about it when you launch hard on a FWD car. The front wheels will slip, and the ASR (anti-slip regulation??) on VW/Audi FWD cars will kick in and stop the front wheels from slipping by limiting the power to the wheels.
Now think about it if you have CVT working to your advantage. If you don't have the computer program, you can have the lowest gear possible by the chain, you WILL spin the wheels if you just floor the gas, and you need ASR to stop the wheel spinning AGAIN. What I'd do if i were the engineers is that I will not choose the lowest "gear ratio" by the chain at launch, so at the initial moment you will launch slower but yet without slip. After maybe a second or so, after the computer acknowledged that there's no slip on the front wheels, THEN the chain can change to the lowest "gear ratio" possible and launch the car. That way you don't have two things.....no front wheels spinning and no ASR working. Of course the launch time might be just a tad slower but heck, how many of us launch at every stop light or red light?
I think that's what a lot of CVT owners call a "hesitation" at launch. Just my 2 cents.
'Rocco et al: No need to apologize for liking quattro and 5spd or 6spd. That's why we bought the car we did. DRC4, I agree with others that you may want to wait on the CVT and go with Tip. Tip is a proven technology right now, CVT from Audi is at version 1. We all know how version 1 software runs on a computer don't we? :-) I also agree that quattro is just superb no matter what the weather or driving condition you put the car through. And I have driven or been in many new cars lately and will not go back to FWD, maybe RWD but not FWD. Audi should sell their lineup as an AWD car first. Subaru is really pushing the "The beauty of AWD" ads hard. Audi should take note, because there are fewer and fewer cars with AWD. My friend just bought a new Maxima SE 6spd. Nice car, fast, and a stiff sport suspension. (Until pushed.) The bad for me is the front end weight causes massive understeer which I don't get because his car is lighter than an A4. Massive torque steer, the VVT technology is nice much like Hondas VTEC but it doesn't kick in until 4000 rpm, and it is too boy racer or California modded looking for me. Especially in the rear end. Some of these issues you will not have due to engine design and quattro. Of course, Audi styling is very understated as well. So, I would drive as many different versions of the car as you can. One with CVT, one with Tip and FWD, and one with Tip and quattro. Then your decision may be a little easier. Good luck and let us know what you find out and decide to do. Brian
While comparing vehicles A4 VS say 3 er i would HAVE to add Quattro to compare fairly with a RWD with a very sophisticated Traction control. Looking at numbers the 1.8tQ is about $562.00 within the 325i price, in addition adding the added maintence and reliability of a Turbo vs Inline 6 and Quattro VS RWD and resale with SEEMS to give a edge to the 3er.
This is just looking at thousands of reviews not based on facts i have, but Braveheart a owner of both vehicles could make a nice analogy .
My point isnt a X car is better than Y car , just as a consumer i would have to walk right past a FWD'er.
I'd like to know where you get that $562 figure from. When I bought my 2001.5 A4 1.8TQ last year, a comparable 2001 325ci is AT LEAST $4k more expensive. The base BMW doesn't have cruise control (!!), a CD player (!!), headlight cleaning system, onboard trip computer, automatic climate control (!!), etc, and it's more expensive than the base A4 which has all of the above. Now in Yr 2002 BMW finally realizes they should put more in as the standard equipment, so they added cruise, CD player and the trip computer. Yet the A4 got a in-dash 6 CD player, and the base price is still cheaper than the 325. As far as I know it's not $562.
That's why it swayed me to investigate the Audi in additional to the BMW, and I'm glad I did.
Color choice- Black/black is popular with all the German premium brands,but I very much don't like it. Some must think it "classy',but I think it's a little overreaching,offputting,and sinister.With an expensive car,I think rather plain white with black insides is interesting. Dresses it down a little;minimalistic. Manual transmission- I just bought my first stick last year,and I must say it adds much more fun to driving than I'd ever imagined. I am the recently converted,true,but I HEARTILY reccommend it it. Ironically,though,the new CVT automatic does give one a special reason to go automatic. I'm very impressed with it as a concept. Sport suspension- Minority opinion here. As a rule,I'm against them. The shorter sidewalls of the tires adds fun,but they also surely allow more vibration to come through the car,giving squeakes and rattles as car ages. It would make a small sedan like the A4 a lot more nimble,espicallyin traffic-clogged L.A.,but it adds a slightly jittery,nervous quality. But I'm a cruiser,I admit it.
The 325i has standard fogs , cd, auto climate not dual zone though and standard 16 not 15 wheels. the cars i built on edmunds were as follows.. at invoice..
Your said 325ci ? the coupe is more costly than the sedan do to a few more standard things i think, i wasnt looking at coupe cause Audi does not make one ,at least not yet... cept for TT
Comments
Speaking of aftermarket products, oh yeah I agree that it should be no argument that if the CV joint blew they can't blame your chip.....what, cuz it caused the engine to spin the wheels a lot faster during acceleration? LOL. I wish though, Audi has an official aftermarket company, like BMW has Dinan that actually provides a more comprehensive warranty than BMW's if they've done mod work for you. M-B actually sells the finished AMG products.....that's fine with me too if Audi does the same thing.
Samuel70, you can also try asking the 02 A4 owners on www.audiworld.com about their opinions on the 02 A4s.
Billy
The question is...Am I better buying the Loaded VW (W8 excluded) or the semi Base A4?
I drive about 30-36,000 miles per year. Am I better off highway driving with the VW V6 or the Audi 1.8T? I noticed on the 1.8t I tested I was at like 3,000 rpm in 5th doing 60 mph. What's the rpm range going to be at 80 mph?
Need some pros and cons. I'm making my salesman nutso because I almost said ok to the GLX today but wanted to "see" the Audi.
By the way, there's a Joe Hoppen Motorsport, Inc. here in Sarasota. Are there a bunch of them or am I near the only one?
Thanks, (help Meee!!!!), Dave ;^)
The Passat should be bigger than an A4, smaller than an A6 and less money than an A4 3.0 -- and have an 8 cylinder engine to boot!
Hard NOT to at least consider, IMO.
You should really go to www.audiworld.com. They are the experts on Audi, and can answer all your questions and doubts.
I love my car and am thrilled to own it! Good luck!
Thanks
DL
Billy
That really isn't the case here. The Passat has the feeling of a very comfortable family car with exceptional fit and finish. The Audi has a "sportier" feel and corners/handles much better. For roughly the same price, the VW will give you leather, a V6 (although with just a smidge more power than the 1.8T), power seats, and a bit more room (mostly rear legroom). The Audi will give you superior handling, higher grade interior materials, better exterior looks (subjective), included regular maintence, and generally a better dealer/service network.
They are both fine cars. Drive them both back to back if you can.
DL
The new A4 avant looks awesome. I just can't see myself "Buzzing" down the road in a 1.8T with "Leatherette". And to the "Materialistic-Stricken" of the bunch...Yes I can afford a 3.0 but it is not a smart choice due to the fact that I drive 30-36,000 miles per year. It is just simply a waste of money to put that many miles on a nice car like that.
I guess I'm leaning back towards the GLX. Smoother and a better "Family Truckster" (lol). I like the memory seats and other whistles. I need the car for both my business and family.
Maybe someday, when I don't need to tote my business stuff up and down the highway so much I could get and enjoy a sedan with a stick to sport around town with.
Thx, Dave ;^)
I sold my 97 A4 2.8Q and purchased a G35. While I really do like the new A4, especially the cabriolet, I needed something with more back seat room.
I had to get an auto for the wife and something big enough to put child seats in (very difficult in the 97). I was leaning towards the Passat, but when I drove the G35 it was all over. I was very impressed that I could get that performance out of a relatively large vehicle with an auto.
The non-sport package with light color leather and wood really makes the interior look elegant reminded me of my 99.5 A6Q (sold that a while ago)
Anyway with all the new cars coming out you really can’t go wrong just need to find one that is suited for you.
I have had radio issues too. I saw on this board that someone removed the radio fuse (with car off), wiped the contacts and replaced it into the slot and they had no more problems. I have not had a chance to try it, I may do it this morning when I get home from work. Yes, I am a Vampire and it is not as bad working at night as you may think. I'll keep you posted as to my radio adventures.
Brian
Billy
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
First off... I know I'm going to risk sounding very stupid saying this but... I am planning to get a manual because I always told myself that my next car would be a stick... buuut... I don't really know how to drive stick yet... I know, I know, how can I say I love cars and NOT know how to drive stick?!! I've been asking myself that same question. Ok, so, I've asked some friends to teach me, but I know they are all hesitant to teach me in their own cars (and understandably so) or not available to teach me. So the option I seem to be left with is to rent a manual and learn on it very quickly (at least the basics) or learn on my new car! (which is needless to say... ahhh!) I have read on this forum many times that the manual A4s are very easy to drive and very smooth (and a necessity), so I wouldn't mind learning on it, but of course I'd be hurting my new baby! So do you guys have any suggestions? Is it completely horrible to learn stick on my new car?!-- Plus this means I’ll probably have to have someone drive it home for me
Ok, second question I know many of you are in the NW, mid-west, or east coast, but I'm in the Los Angeles area and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with any of the dealerships in the LA area. I’ve called many of the dealerships in Southern California, and even spoke to some in the Bay Area (but of course that doesn’t seem to be better). One of the dealerships I checked out can get me a black/black 1.8tQ, manual with xenons, roof, and sport package. Originally, I just wanted to have xenons and roof (on a budget), but that combo is almost impossible to find without the sport. And after reading many of the comments on this forum it seems that there is a general consensus that sport is almost a “must-have” anyway. So, I decided, maybe I could work it in. So the dealership (Downtown LA Motors) is giving me a good deal, I believe, especially for California. What price is good though? Does anyone know anything about this dealership or if there are any pros/cons to them? Honestly, this is the first time I’ll be going to purchase a car myself, and I’m kind of being very cautious. I don’t want to get my hopes up about this dealership and/or price, and then find out that it’s shady or there are side fees or whatever I don’t know about. Is there anything I should look out for in particular? Also, any comments regarding my option combo or color would be much appreciated.
Third question to all those people who have posted about problems with their A4s (or people who just want to answer anyway), despite problems with the 2nd gear, sunroof noise, trunk, etc. that I’ve read about, are you guys totally happy with your A4s? Like no regrets?
Ok I think that’s it for now. Sorry this was so long, I just want to be thorough with my research before making such a big purchase. And I know that you guys have all been through this before and therefore can lend your experiences to me. Thank you so much! I'll be anticipating your responses!
So to analogize: To get the car moving, you let the clutch pedal up enough while supplying some pressure to the accelerator pedal to slip the clutch slightly until it engages and starts to make the car move. Just as with the rope tow, if you don't slip the clutch slightly and just let it ubruptly engage, you'll kill the engine just as you were thrown off the rope if you didn't let it slip slightly between your hands. The trick is to minimize this "slipping" action as much as possible while at the same time trying to be as smooth as possible while launching the car. The excessive slipping is what wears out the clutch ...to analogize again, if you were to excessively let the rope slip between your hands on the rope tow, you'd quickly burn a hole in your gloves (or your skin if not wearing gloves or mittens *lol*). The engagement point of a clutch can vary by manufacturer and even from car to car so it takes a little adjusting when driving another car than the one you are used to. Changing gears by using the cluch while the car is moving is much easier, of course.
I think it's possible for you to drive your new A4 home directly from the dealership if you've got the principles of the mechanics in your mind. Especially if the terrain from the dealership to your house is flat and you choose a time when traffic is not very busy. Practicing launching the car on a steep hill is something you'll probably want to do afterwards once you've had the chance to get used to the clutch a bit. I read a post over on AudiWorld a few months ago where a guy in the same situation as you're in drove his brand new A4 home from the dealership without ever having driven a manual. I'd probably suggest that you find an relatively empty parking lot or something just to experiment a bit before taking it out on the street, however. I don't think you'll have too much success in finding a rental car with a stick but there might be one somewhere. My personal preference would be for you to talk a friend into letting you drive his/her car around a parking lot somewhere in advance of picking up your new car. Also, clutches can withstand some abuse so it's not likely you'll do a great amount of damage if you excessively slip the clutch or kill the engine a few times.
Concerning options, etc., if you are really cost conscious and you don't need the car immediately, I'd suggest you factory order the car. Most Audi dealers seem quite amenable to custom ordering for their customers out of their allocation. It might be few months before you have your "baby" but you'll have exactly what you want. I'm in the minority here for I don't necessarily believe the sport package in the new '02 A4 is for everybody. The standard suspension is supposedly equal to the pre-'02 sport suspension and with the 16" upgrade would probably be an ideal combination for those who want comfort and excellent handling ...plus, you'll save a few bucks ordering it this way. Xenons and quattro, however, are a must!
As far as LA area dealerships, you might want to join us and pose that question over on the ClubA4 forums for I know there are a lot of Socal members there and also the moderator is from Socal. Click here for the ClubA4 Forums AudiWorld would also be a good place to get input about dealerships and the kind of deals that are being made in your area. I think in California, there are certain mandatory state fees that are tacked on to the final negotiated price so I'll let someone else comment on that. In Washington, where I'm located, nothing but sales tax and license fees are required to be added onto the final negotiated price. However, no matter where you're located, added dealer mark up items such as prep fees, etc., or any second sticker items should be disregarded and/or absorbed into the negotiated price. Use the Edmunds calculators to determine the invoice price and the TMV in your area and be sure you're negotiating from the invoice price up ...in-other-words, as a percentage over invoice price. Use this method consistently as you shop for it's the only way you can accurately compare prices. There is no holdback on Audis so you'll definitely be paying above invoice but how much over invoice will depend on your area's supply and demand. For example, here in Washington state, we're paying somewhere in the 4.5-7.0% range over invoice for A4s.
As you probably know, Audis have free maintenace during the first four years so your maintenance and repair costs will be very minimal during the first few years of ownership. But as you also know, Audis are not rated as reliable as Japanese brands so if you plan on keeping the car for a long time, you'll in all likelihood have repair costs exceeding most Japanese cars. We all know this going in so it's the compromise we're willing to take in having a German made and engineered car which has that certain character that just puts a smile on our faces each time we're behind the wheel. I test drove many Japanese luxury cars before I bought my B5 A4 and none seemed as fun to drive and your car will be even more fun to drive! Yes, there's more of a possibility of things going wrong with an Audi than say a Lexus or Infiniti but I don't regret my decision.
Good luck and if you have any other questions, ask away. There are many more participants here that are much more knowledgeable than I am and hopefully they'll respond too.
--'rocco
First of all, a round of *applause* for Rocco. His 2 cents worth a lot more than that.
I just wanna add something. Knowing how to drive a stick shift car is not a prerequisite for loving cars. My B5 01.5 A4 is a stick but I had not owned a stick shift car before. It'd sound funny, but I learned stick shift from a VW dealer about 4 years ago when I had absolutely no idea I will own an Audi now. After that, it's just on and off stick shift "self-taught" lessons from test driving with friends. Like Rocco said, learning stick shift is not difficult. However, it takes some practice to make it as smooth as automatic. I'd recommend you to drive your new baby home with a friend who knows how to drive a manual car and he/she can give you some pointers on the way. After you start to pick up, you can go practice on your own, starting from a slope, rev matching, etc.. Plus the new clutch needs some break-in anyway *wink*.
I had been to the LA area and DEFINITELY get the sports pkg. The only thing that held me back here in Chicago not to get it was that it comes with summer high perf tires and it lowered the ride height, which means I'd definitely need winter tires and I don't want to be the "Snow Plough of the Back Alley". Over in LA you guys got some nice twists and definitely no snow to worry about. I'd slap myself in the face for not getting it if I were in LA. And yes, definitely Quattro, sunroof and xenons.
About color combo, I LOVE the Dolphin Grey with the Platinum interior. Definitely brings out the classy looks and the brushed aluminum. I would say black/black in LA might be a little too warm under the sun (coworker got a new Passat with black/black and it was TOASTY getting in her car when it was 88F a few days ago), but hey, if you like that color combo, you should get it.
And no regrets whatsoever. To be honest, I wanted a BMW 325ci. However, after looking at the price/value for the money, $5k over the Audi with comparable equipment minus Quattro AWD, I said no. My girlfriend supported me of the idea but warned me that I better don't whine if I don't like the A4 down the road and want to get the BMW 325ci instead. Nope, and in fact, if I were to do it again, I still won't go for the 325ci.
And yes, definitely check with the guys at www.AudiWorld.com. There are quite a large audience from SoCal there and I'm sure you can find more advice from people there.
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Billy
Learning to drive a stick is not brain surgery. It does take some coordination between when your right (clutch) foot comes up and when your left (gas) foot goes down. It also requires you to pay more attention to the engine speed. For the first few days, I would recommend driving with the radio off. listen to the engine and get to know it - it will quickly become obvious to you when to shift. You will stall the engine a few (maybe more than a few) times, but that's OK. A few times you will get a loud raspy sound of the gears not engaging properly, and that's OK too. You will get nervous whenever you have to stop on a hill, but after a few stalls, you'll learn to cope. The main point is that there are no doubt many things that you do in life that are harder and more complicated than driving a stick. It's just another skill, one that has been learnable by some of the complete idiots that you see on the road al the time. You are also not going to do any horrible damage to the car while learning. Maybe the clutch will expire a few thousand miles before it otherwise would have - so what?
As far as options, I have dolphin/platinum which I think looks great. The only color I would avoid is anything with the beige interior, which just does not look right with the aluminum accents in the 1.8T. You will have a hard time getting an A4 without a sunroof. I did not get the sports pack, but I live in occasionally slushy Cincinnati and did not want to bother with dedicated winter tires. Despite my comments above, I have an automatic - I've done the stick thing an decided I would rather be lazy. Xenons are grea and make a big difference in visibility. The Premium Package is about $300 and worth it for the autodimming mirrors alone (so as not to be blinded by the headlights of the SUV behind you).
Finally, after about a month of driving it I can say that I love this car, and everyone who has ridden in it has been equally impressed (including my 4 year old:) ). Handling, interor, ride, and comfort are all top-notch. While the car is not cheap by any means, it is an excellent value for the money.
Good luck, hope this helps!
I like most AUDI owners, considerd a BMW 325. Though they to are great car's I found myself a bit disappointed with the test drive. The Bimmers handling was excellent however I found the acceleration to be a bit lacking. I dont know if it's the altitude here (Denver) or what but it needed the turbo boost my A4 has! I also prefer the AUDI interor hands down. I now love all German cars but I think Audi has more to offer for less money than BMW more features+quattro+awsome engineering. BMW has added AWD as an after thought but AUDI'S are made around Quattro from the ground up. AUDI'S the winner in my book! Thanks again fellow AUDI owners.
*Raising hand*
Billy
P.S. Myers12, mine just celebrated her 1st yr anniversary 2 months ago. Running great, 18,800 miles.
I've taught a few people to drive stick before, and I make them do one thing before driving. Put the car in first and, with your foot off the gas, let out the clutch pedal as slowly as you can. At some point the car will start to move. This is where the clutch starts to engage and it is important that you learn where it is. Do this 5 or 6 times so you become familiar with it. You probably want to do this in a parking lot where you can pay more attention to the tachometer than what's in front of you. Now you're ready to drive. Your goal is to have the RPMs at around 1000 when the clutch starts to engage, then you will notice that they are going to drop as the clutch engages. You need to modulate the gas pedal so that the RPMs stay above 1000 RPM but below 2000 RPM until you've completely let the clutch pedal out. Once you can do that easily, aim for a max of 1500 RPM. Once you do that, work on letting the clutch out faster and faster. Now you're ready to drive on the streets, no more than 2 hours after you've first driven stick. If you keep it below 2000 and then 1500 RPM while you learn engagement, clutch wear will be minimal - your friends have nothing to worry about.
I do have a question for those with the 1.8T manual. When cruising at 80mph in 5th, what are the engine RPM? I remember someone saying 4000 or so, but that seemed really high and I didn't know if it was accurate. My Focus is at about 3250 and I think that's high. My bro-in-law's Monte Carlo cruises at 80 at less than 2000 RPM!
Billy
Also, I kind of need to get a car soon because I got into an accident (someone hit me up in Tahoe—my goodness that ordeal was such a hassle) and I need to be able to get around. So, I'm trying not to rush into buying this car as much as I can, (which is why I'm asking you guys a lot of these questions), but I do need the car pretty soon. Otherwise I would think about ordering it too.
When I called the dealerships I did ask for a percentage over invoice, and *I believe* the invoice for this car is $27,126 (according to edmunds) and if so, this dealer is giving it to me for around 4.5% over invoice. I just got the total out-the door price today and that would be just shy of $31,000. Sooo... this is a pretty good deal for California right? No other dealership could give me a price as good as this, at least the ones I've checked so far. Now I just need to decide if I’m really going to do this, and if this is the one I want.
Billy- yeah I do like the dolphin grey (as do many other people it seems), but I kinda wanted to save that color for a different car I want in the future
Rick- do you mean right (gas) foot and left (clutch) foot??
Brian- that's really nice of you to offer to teach me! thanks! and thanks for the details about rpms. That should be very helpful for me (when I convince someone to let me learn on their car!)
Everyone- thanks so much for all your comments and helpful suggestions. I really appreciate all you have to say. And if anyone else wants to add anything, please do. I would love to hear and learn more.
I decided to place an order because I wanted an Avant and there weren't many to choose from--I would have been stuck with a lot of options I didn't want--plus too few dealers seemed willing to negotiate.
Southern California is the place to have the sport package. I wanted it too at first until I found out I'd need an extra set of winter tires.
I think you're going to love this car, and I think it's great that you want to teach yourself to drive a manual. More women should. If you want to be able to, you'll figure it out.
As far as learning to drive stick on a new car, go for it. I learned back in '90 (My wife taught me!) when we bought our first new car as a couple, which was an Acura Integra. The first gear in the Integra really had to be finessed, and I still managed. BTW, I still have the car, and have yet to replace the clutch! This, despite spending a few awkward days learning how to shift gears. The 2002 A4 1.8T gearing is so smooth and the clutch so effortless, that you'll have a much easier time.
One last comment, if you are a stickler for perfection and dust/scratches on your finish bothers you, get Silver. Dolphin Gray is beautiful, but it's almost as bad as dark colors when it comes to showing dirt and scratches. Down side to silver is that you'll have a hard time finding your car in the parking lot. Seems like everyone is buying silver cars nowadays.
Enjoy,
Walt
Good luck!
Billy
I got mine at McDonald and have been happy. Their service dept. isn't as good as Infiniti's (wife has an I30), but still better than most.
I think the 1.8T A4 is faster up here than the 325i is (or at least as fast). I'd love to see a 325i do what I did last summer - myself, one passenger, and a full backseat and trunk full of camping gear (at least a few hundred pounds), doing 85+ up I-70 in 5th gear. I got to Glenwood Springs from Denver in under 2 hours (I think it was about 1 hour 45 min). That turbo hauls a** up in the mountains where normally aspirated engines really lose their giddy-up. And Quattro was outstanding this winter, even with the stock all-seasons.
1) Black on black is very cool looking but brutally hot when it's hot out. We just had 3 days of record +90 degree heat (april!!)here in CT. and I am facing 3 summers ahead. We currently have another black car but with beige leather and I am convinced it makes huge difference in keeping the interior cooler. In the 1.8, Beige looks horrendous with the aluminum trim so that leaves grey which is a nice way to go. As mentioned before dark colors are tough to maintain but I'm ones of those who likes to "detail" so I'd be doing it regardless. Upside of black is it hides what I consider to be a design flaw - the Aztek /Cross Country-like body side molding. What a cheap looking, visually grating, down right poor decision to add this design idea.
2) Sport suspension - as mentioned before consider the fact that Audi admits the current standard suspension is as stiff as the pre "02 models "sport suspension" that's pretty stiff so I'd really drive both types and determine if the extra money is worth it. Not making a judgment call but someone who has never driven a standard is most likely not the most aggressive driver -yet- so maybe the already performance oriented base suspesnion wil be enough. I choose not to purchase the sport because: a) 16" option is enough grip with the already stiff standard susp and quattro b)I did not want to buy snow tires and because truthfully c)the roads where I live are so terribly maintined, potholes, frost heaves etc, that the Sport suspension is an extremely, extremely uncomfortable ride to the point where I might choose not to buy the car if it was the only option offered. Now I must admit that LA is probalby nowhere similar in road condition so maybe itw worth it.
3) Learning to drive a 5 speed - I know that several local driving schools here offer the choice of standard or auto so give a few in your area a call.
4) I paid 4.1% over invoice so I think your geting a great deal to and remeber to alwasy shop at the end of the month - it makes a big difference in price no what anyone tells you.
enjoy
The strange thing about turbo's is that they do indeed seem to be oblivious to high altitude.I've driven cars with far bigger engines over mountain passes and they've doged down big time compared to my A4.I remember someone telling turbo's were originaly engineered for airplanes which might explain their mountain climbing ability.
THANKS
After that, I decided it was worth the money to take a few driving lessons with an unbiased person who could teach me how to drive a stick. I went ahead and did that, bought the Prelude with a stick, and loved it for 12 years. Didn't want to go back to an automatic, but got married and the husband didn't want a stick, so we thought the tiptronic was a good compromise.
I suggest go for at least one driving lesson to see if you like it, and just get down the basic principles. You should have no problems after that!
I have a '00 A4 1.8TQ/Tiptronic and am considering a new CVT when my lease is up. I'm not happy with the mileage on my current A4 (especially considering the ridiculous gas prices and the requirement of premium fuel) and am wondering what real world mileage CVT owners are getting. Audi claims the CVT gets better mileage than the Titptronic. I haven't had a chance to drive one, so am also curious as to acceleration, any tranny lag when kicking it to pass, etc.
Any personal experience with the 1.8T CVT will be appreciated.
I haven't test driven an Audi CVT yet. Did a test drive on the Civic CVT and the acceleration feel is just different. You can see the speedometer climbing and yet you don't feel the acceleration.
Billy
Bad news...no Quattro, not a big issue in Alabama, I would guess.
I believe the CVT is more efficient mechanically than a regular AT, it should get a little better mileage and acceleration. See what they say at Audiworld.com
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Those whom are familiar with my posts in the past know that I'm a proponent of quattro regardless of whether the car will be driven in snow or ice. Anyone who disagees should scroll back and read some of Mark's posts about this subject on this forum and the A6 forum.
Yes, the CVT is 188 lbs. lighter than a quattro with Tip but the gas mileage figures reflect only a one (1) mpg difference in both city and highway figures ...20 mpg city/29 mpg highway for the CVT and 19 mpg city/28 mpg highway for the quattro Tip. I'm getting these figures straight from the AoA web site:
Curb weight (lbs)
multitronic, FrontTrak: 3362
Manual, FrontTrak: 3252
Manual, quattro: 3406
Tiptronic, quattro: 3550
EPA fuel economy estimates²(city/highway)
manual, FrontTrak: 21/29
multitronic, FrontTrak: 20/29
manual, quattro: 21/29
Tiptronic, quattro: 19/28
Personally, I'd gladly give up that one (1) mpg difference for the advantages that quattro affords. I truly believe that quattro should define Audi. Subaru now markets all their vehicles in North America with AWD and I really desire that Audi would do the same. I know I'm not alone with this thought for many Audi enthusiasts have expressed similar sentiments. What's an Audi without quattro??? If I were in charge of running VW AG, the Audi division would produce nothing but quattro equipped cars. I really didn't feel this way until I became an owner of a quattro equipped car. The feeling quattro gives is difficult to explain in writing. It gives me that certain mechanical (?) "oneness" (?) --with the road ...knowing that all four wheels are playing a part in providing motion to the machine. And the feeling that you are glued to the road inspires that certain confidence which I've never experienced in any other vehicle I've owned. Yes, I guess I'm becoming a true quattroholic.
Some other points: quattro, especially here in the NW, traditionally holds its value much more than a FrontTrak would ...almost to the point of making up the extra price you pay for it initially. Who knows if this will continue to be the case with the CVT. The other point is that the CVT is so new in an Audi and such a disappointment when other manufacturers have tried to market it that it is unknown how Audi's will fare as far as reliability, long term driveability and durability. Personally, I'd be nervous about buying one until it is absolutely proven reliable with no adverse longevity concerns. Additionally --even though it's getting much better as advances in engineering progress-- any FWD vehicle will have a certain amount of torque steer in certain situations which can be very annoying. Myself, I don't know if I could ever again own a FWD vehicle for that reason ...you really don't realize it until you do go back to a RWD or AWD vehicle.
You've also probably read over at AudiWorld that the CVT is experiencing hesitation upon initial acceleration. I don't know if this is a widespread problem or if it's just happening on a few select cars but I'd have to assume that it would also be annoying if you happened to get one that did that.
For me personally, I'm a die-hard manual tranny guy. But even if I were considering abandoning manuals, I'd be a little skeptical of the CVT at this point until it has been established and proven reliable.
I just thought I'd give you some food for thought, Denny ...sorry. And flame away folks, I deserve it!
Yes, I'm pitiful ...I'm a quattroholic ...a true quattroholic that needs a manual tranny. *tsk*
sincerely,
--'rocco
Think about it when you launch hard on a FWD car. The front wheels will slip, and the ASR (anti-slip regulation??) on VW/Audi FWD cars will kick in and stop the front wheels from slipping by limiting the power to the wheels.
Now think about it if you have CVT working to your advantage. If you don't have the computer program, you can have the lowest gear possible by the chain, you WILL spin the wheels if you just floor the gas, and you need ASR to stop the wheel spinning AGAIN. What I'd do if i were the engineers is that I will not choose the lowest "gear ratio" by the chain at launch, so at the initial moment you will launch slower but yet without slip. After maybe a second or so, after the computer acknowledged that there's no slip on the front wheels, THEN the chain can change to the lowest "gear ratio" possible and launch the car. That way you don't have two things.....no front wheels spinning and no ASR working. Of course the launch time might be just a tad slower but heck, how many of us launch at every stop light or red light?
I think that's what a lot of CVT owners call a "hesitation" at launch. Just my 2 cents.
Billy
No need to apologize for liking quattro and 5spd or 6spd. That's why we bought the car we did. DRC4, I agree with others that you may want to wait on the CVT and go with Tip. Tip is a proven technology right now, CVT from Audi is at version 1. We all know how version 1 software runs on a computer don't we? :-)
I also agree that quattro is just superb no matter what the weather or driving condition you put the car through. And I have driven or been in many new cars lately and will not go back to FWD, maybe RWD but not FWD. Audi should sell their lineup as an AWD car first. Subaru is really pushing the "The beauty of AWD" ads hard. Audi should take note, because there are fewer and fewer cars with AWD.
My friend just bought a new Maxima SE 6spd. Nice car, fast, and a stiff sport suspension. (Until pushed.) The bad for me is the front end weight causes massive understeer which I don't get because his car is lighter than an A4. Massive torque steer, the VVT technology is nice much like Hondas VTEC but it doesn't kick in until 4000 rpm, and it is too boy racer or California modded looking for me. Especially in the rear end. Some of these issues you will not have due to engine design and quattro. Of course, Audi styling is very understated as well.
So, I would drive as many different versions of the car as you can. One with CVT, one with Tip and FWD, and one with Tip and quattro. Then your decision may be a little easier. Good luck and let us know what you find out and decide to do.
Brian
Turbo vs Inline 6 and
Quattro VS RWD
and resale with SEEMS to give a edge to the 3er.
This is just looking at thousands of reviews not based on facts i have, but Braveheart a owner of both vehicles could make a nice analogy .
My point isnt a X car is better than Y car , just as a consumer i would have to walk right past a FWD'er.
Regards,
DL
That's why it swayed me to investigate the Audi in additional to the BMW, and I'm glad I did.
Billy
Black/black is popular with all the German premium brands,but I very much don't like it. Some must think it "classy',but I think it's a little overreaching,offputting,and sinister.With an expensive car,I think rather plain white with black insides is interesting. Dresses it down a little;minimalistic.
Manual transmission-
I just bought my first stick last year,and I must say it adds much more fun to driving than I'd ever imagined. I am the recently converted,true,but I HEARTILY reccommend it it.
Ironically,though,the new CVT automatic does give one a special reason to go automatic. I'm very impressed with it as a concept.
Sport suspension-
Minority opinion here. As a rule,I'm against them.
The shorter sidewalls of the tires adds fun,but they also surely allow more vibration to come through the car,giving squeakes and rattles as car ages. It would make a small sedan like the A4 a lot more nimble,espicallyin traffic-clogged L.A.,but it adds a slightly jittery,nervous quality. But I'm a cruiser,I admit it.
I need for you to drop me an e-mail at your earliest convenience: pat@edmunds.com.
Thanks!
Pat
Sedans Host
at invoice..
1.8TQ $24,256 325i $24820
freight 645 645
24,901 25,465
yes the 325i computer is a few hundred additional but you get 16 wheels instead of 15 also. difference of $564.00
like i said i was not trying to debate between the cars, i like them both. Just agreeing that you cannot compare a fwd with a AWD or RWD fairly,
Regards,
DL
DL