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Comments
I'm especially fussy about my vehicle, and I think dealers,(if they want to have a long term relationship w/customer) should take notes,keep a profile of Audi enthusiasts like me that require more explanations, service,expectations than the average customer, and are "prepared" when a "pain in the butt" like me comes in!
And Mark, I think your dealership is doing all those cuz you bought from them so many times in the last 24 yrs.....they appreciate your business and they want more from you obviously :> I don't know if they'll do the same to ALL their clients....
Billy
LAUK0DG-You hit it on the head, Billy! Not to knock Mark, but they know he is a "preferred" customer and his service and attention level at his dealership is different then yours or mine. All I am saying is that excellent service should be across the board... to marleybarr, you and I and all of us in this so called "Family". Ok, end of rant!
Brian
Driving from St.Paul to Chicago is indeed a lesson in frustration. On a clear day, light traffic, good roads... you feel like bringing the Audi up to about 110mph to make some good time, however reality sets in and you force yourself to keep it at 5 over the 65mph limit in Wisconsin. Then you see everyone but trucks passing you until 20 miles down the road, a Wis. State trooper has one of those guys who passed you up pulled over.Oh well, I'll keep it at 70 or 71 or 72 and keep my driving record clear!!!
We have been doing business with our dealer (virtually, but not 100%) exclusively since 1977 (when we bought a 1978 Audi 5000). Over time we became not only customers but friends of the owner and employees of the dealership. And, while our relationship is genuine, I am certain it does help. Indeed, when the sales manager retired, my wife and I continued to socialize with him and his wife. When the owner, at age 60, cashed in and sold the dealership, we continued our relationship and were even invited to his daughter's wedding.
So we are, as you can see, literally friends of the dealership. We would like to be our dealer's best customer -- and as far as I can tell our dealer would like to be our best dealer. It is a two-way street. I have been at the dealership and have seen customers treat the employees so badly that it makes me wonder what they (the customers) are thinking. Winning through intimidation rarely works. And, it doesn't make for good customer relations (and again, it is a two way street).
I often wonder what would happen if the customers would revolt and "strive -- as if in competition -- to be the best customers they can be?" Hearing -- admittedly from the dealers perspective -- how many times customers try to take advantage of the dealer, lie to the dealer and basically look at the dealer as an adversary it makes me wonder how any employee of most dealerships, who comes into contact with often rude, demanding customers, isn't completely jaundiced.
You get more done with persuasion than intimidation -- at least that has been my experience.
Oh yea, when someone at the dealership does something, anything, correctly or to your satisfaction -- write the boss a note and tell him/her so. Wait until you see what happens next time you're in their store!
Well you can make up all your lost time once you cross the border into IL....you know how we drive in Chicagoland.....55mph speed limit, trucks go at 70mph and cars go at 75mph to 80mph. There are some speed traps but then everyone knows where they are so it's useless.....and they won't pull people over during rush hour cuz people like to slow down and see what's going on ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY.....that pisses me off so bad. However, watch out for unmarked cruisers.....and they're not just the normal Impalas or Crown Vics....I've seen a white Mustang, and black Grand Prix (!!) and a black Camaro pulling people over.....and that's not the only unmarked cars.
Billy
How about changing the laws so we have one day per month w/ no speedlimits? Has anyone actually brought an Audi up to the "limiter" speed of about 125mph? I have come up to about 107 mph for a second and then lost my nerve and slowed down!
I've got it to 110mph in Chicagoland but yup I freaked out and I slowed down.....it's at 2am so pls don't flame me for being irresponsible. One note though, the car is rock solid and smooth at 110mph. I know I was going fast but didn't know it's THAT fast till I looked at the speedo :>
Billy
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Billy
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
DL
I moved from Cleveland, Ohio to Madison, Wisconsin and now I am in Chicago. Yes, you can go very fast here. I found that cars on I-355 (tollway), especially going North are very fast. It states 55MPH but 80+ is normal/average.
thanx
I think they told me when I changed out the suspension on a 1997 A8 that I should change both the springs and shocks (struts) -- apparently they work in harmony. Eventually I changed the following:
Springs, struts, front and rear anti-sway bars and tires. Both the handling and the ride improved, plus the car was lowered about one inch. Although I went with wider tires, I kept the original factory 17" wheels.
Joe and Mike Hoppen have very detailed knowlege and also they can sell you the parts you need -- I had them ship the parts directly to the dealer who changed out the components. Also I needed two all-wheel alignments, one immediately and one after 1,000 miles of "settling in."
If you go with "factory" spec sport suspension bits and pieces the ride quality IMO is actually improved. There are some really aggressive sport bits that lower the car over 35mm, stiffen the ride and virtually eliminate body roll -- but the cost is a bone jarring ride on some less than perfect roads.
Drive it like you live.
Billy
Now let's hope I can get used to my own car when I get it back this evening.
Billy
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
The thing is, I remember it'll "auto" shift at the redline from 1st to 2nd only if you floor it. If you just tap it, the engine will get to like 3-4k rpm and then "auto" shift.
Will report later.
Billy
I was going to get the 1.8T, pretty loaded up, with FWD, for about $29,000. Then I read about the so called "lag" of the CVT at launch. I can't get a manual, so I'm stuck with the CVT if I go with FWD. I'm also a little wary of the new-to-the-USA technology from a reliability standpoint. I don't need quattro for inclement weather, I hate to add the weight, and I'd rather put the $1,700 toward options like Bose, Xenon, and metallic paint.
Nevertheless, I'll probably get quattro, just so I can have the tiptronic in lieu of CVT. This pushes the price over $30,000, which is getting closer to the 325i, and is still alot for a four cylinder.
What do you guys think of the 1.8T w/quattro and tip? Does it ever feel under powered? Do you really feel the whole 166 lb/ft of torque at 2000 RPM? How is it with the AC on? I'm mostly in my car alone, so I don't much care about how it drives with a load (unless you consider a set of golf clubs a load).
Ticks me off, in my 4.2 when I sometimes want to remain in 1st gear a bit longer to keep the revs up, but don't really want to floor it. Example, if you are accelerating onto a freeway and "may" need power, but may not need to floor it, you end up flooring it at the "merge opportunity" and then wait for that tiptronic split second lag as it shifts to first gear -- well, it is at the very least annoying, it seems to take a lot of what could be fun out of the tip. It is saying, I know better than you, bubba.
Another reason I want a manual transmission or a six speed tiptronic.
Anyway, as you may recall, I was supposed to get my A4 1.8t at the end of last month, but things fell through. I was also supposed to learn stick, but I ended up getting only a half hour lesson from my friend because he was really busy (although, I do feel more comfortable with it already now- much in part to all the postings and advice you guys gave me previously. Thanks!).
So let's see, what's new... well, while I was in the bay area, I checked out one of the dealerships there, expecting the prices to be much more expensive than LA. Surprisingly though, I walked away putting a deposit on a car! They gave me almost the same price that I had found in LA-- 4.5% over invoice, but the only difference was that they included an ad fee to their cost, which was unfortunately passed on to me. I told them that I wasn't charged that fee in LA, so they gave me the car for 31K flat. (Just a little over what I could have gotten here in LA). (Goes to show that there really is a big difference if you buy at the end of the month.) They had a car coming in with the exact specs I wanted, but it would be around a 7-10 days wait, they said. That wasn’t a huge problem for me seeing as how at that point, I was going to drive down to LA within a few hours, and I’d be coming back to they bay area soon anyway. Now the thing is, I'm going up there again this weekend, and it's supposed to be available by then... but the guy at the dealership called me yesterday and said that there was slightly bad news-- the car I was supposed to get didn't make it onto the ship it was supposed to (or something like that), so it would take even longer. I’m going up again for memorial weekend, so I’ll have to wait till then to pick it up. It just seems like nothing is going the way it was supposed to, but I guess now this gives me more time to learn stick, since I haven't really had a good chance to do that either. argh... All I can do is wait I guess... very anxiously... I'm supposed to get another "lesson" from my friend this weekend, but we'll see how that goes and if that even happens. I found one place here that rents manual cars... but only mr2 spyders and boxsters, and it's not cheap. I was thinking of renting the mr2 this week, but that was because I thought I would have to drive my car home this weekend.
And that’s another thing. Right when I get my car (in a couple weeks), I have to drive it down about 400 miles to LA. I know people have different opinions about the break-in period for this car, and everyone says it’s very easy and smooth to drive, but I’m kind of nervous At that point, I won’t be very proficient at manual yet, and I’ll be driving for 5 hours, possibly by myself, and it’s a completely new car. Is this going to be bad for my new car? I mean, having to drive it through the mountains (Grapevine) and all that? I thought I would be ok driving it back, but then I was speaking to my friend, and I started getting nervous again because she was really nervous for me. What do you guys think? I mean it’ll definitely give me some “quality time” with my new car (heh heh). I’ll get to know it a loooot better after driving it for 5 hours straight. Anyway, this is going to turn into a novel soon, so I better stop writing just wanted to let you guys know what was up with my situation, and once again ask for input.
Oh yeah another thing (sorry) the guy at the dealership said he’d throw in something from the parts dept. for me, since I had to wait longer and whatnot What does he mean by that? I mean, like what would he give me? And if he asks me what I want I have no idea Anyone have experience with this? Thanks!
Whether or not quattro and Tip suit you depends entirely on your driving style. I have a 1.8T Avant with Tip and have yet to feel that the car does not have enough power - it pulls better and has more "oomph" than the V6 220HP SUV I used to drive. OTOH, that same opinion will get me laughed off the boards at AudiWorld where the performance crowd hangs out. the only way to know is to drive one. Your post also sounds like you haven't driven the CVT either. Try it. The feel of acceleration and the perception of power is highly subjective (I remember thinking that my old 90HP '88 Sentra had plenty of power, but that was primarily because it replaced an '80 Omni powered by gerbils).
Diana-
I'm no mechanic, but I believe there are only a few ways to kill a car during the break in, and a few mays for someone inexperienced with a manual shifter to ruin the transmission. There is no shortage of opinions on what to do during break-in, but the one constant agreed on is don't run the engine at high speeds or near the redline. Both of those factors are under your control. As far as the transmission, once you get the knack of shifting without grinding the gears, you have learned what you need to know to keep from hurting the car. i would tend to think that a long drive on the highway would be a better way to "practice" than around town - stop and go driving, especially on hills, is the tough way to learn a stick. If you're worried, try to cajole a friend into going with you. Who would turn down a California road trip in a new Audi in the Spring
The Passat, IMO, has always leaned more to the A6 than the A4 -- several of my friend's going so far as to call them A5's. One of my friend's traded his 98 A6 2.8 in on a 2002 Passat GLX 4Motion -- says they are comparable.
The W8 Passat for 2003 will have a 6spd manual available and a sport package available, too.
It should sticker at $38+K with a 270HP 8 cylinder engine -- that's less than an A6 3.0 and less even than an all out A4. I believe the Passat was based on a stretched A4 chassis/frame and has used the 1.8T and 2.8 5V engines for at least a couple of years.
The Passat W8 -- and this is my problem -- seems like it may hurt Audi's sales, a sport version with a manual transmission that is between $4K and $10K less than either an A6 3.0 quattro or an A6 2.7T quattro may attract folks (like my ex-Audi owner friend). IT COULD HAPPEN.
VW is "ramping up" the dealers who sell these things in preparation for the VW Phaeton ($70,000) coming next year. While many VW dealers cannot compare to Audi dealers (yet) -- the corporate marching orders are to move VW's products (starting with the Passat) upmarket and do the same to the dealers.
I find this perplexing -- because I can actually see people (new to German cars, and not enamored of BMW's and Mercedes) look at both the Audi and the VW -- relatively speaking, to the uninitiated, the VW is a major bargain.
Also 270 HP from 8 cylinders compared to 220 HP from 6 cylinders -- makes a case of some strength -- especially for those who are not aware of Audi's more sporting heritage and nature.
Moving VW up the price scale is just starting with the W8 and will soon be followed by the Audi A8 "fraternal twin" the Phaeton. The ultimate goal is to differentiate Audi and VW, not so much by price but by owner preference: Audi will be "sporting" luxury and VW will be "classic" (read Mercedes) luxury. They -- over certain models, such as the Passat and the Phaeton -- will compete in price. For at least a couple of years, I'll wager that consumers will buy a sport Passat W8 over an A4 3.0 and / or over an A6 3.0 -- and maybe even over a 2.7T.
My point, as a loyal Audi owner, is to wonder "what are they thinking" as I am sure the Passat will be perceived as both higher performance and content than the Audi (I said perceived) but at a price that makes it difficult to resist.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Deedubs, I learned driving manual like 3 yrs before I got the A4. The night that I bought mine (yup last day of the month), I drove it home, through local roads and highway and what not for an hour. It's not that easy to kill the engine with a stick you know. And if you do, it's no big deal. Just try to think what you did wrong and don't do it again. When the salesguy says he'd throw in something from the parts dept, more likely they'll give you some cosmetic stuff like polished exhaust tips (don't know if it's still offered or come std on 02), allweather floor mats, or even maybe an Audi sweatshirt or a coffee mug. I'd definitely go for the floor mats (for the snow here).
Billy
Lately, I've learned not to hang out where the gearheads hang. While those guys are pretty smart, in their eyes, if you don't have 45 series summer tires and a manual transmission, you might as well be driving a Buick. The "performance guys" over on the 3-series board are pretty hardcore, (and pretty persuasive),...they had me about to buy a 325i w/SP and no PP. This would have necessitated buying winter tires, extra aftermarket rims, and trying to negotiate with the dealer to get me the stupid 3-series armrest that isn't standard on the 325i, and isn't available as an option - big pain in the butt. After much gut wrenching, I've concluded that while the 3-series w/SP is the ultimate driving machine,...an A4 w/out SP and with optional 16" wheels, is "sportier" than a 325i w/out SP, IMHO, of course. With the 3-series, it just seems like its all or nothing with either luxury or performance,...and "all" of both, costs way more than I want to spend. The A4 is much more moderate. That may stink in a politician or a voter, but its not bad in a sport-luxury car.
Mark: I agree totally w/your confusion over VW/Audi marketing strategy. It seemed to me that it was much cleaner when the Passat was a more luxury-oriented car (without performance options and big wheels, etc.), and Audi was more of a "sports sedan". Will ESP and Brake Assist be offered on the VW? To me, that was another big factor separating BMW and Audi from the Passat, especially since, from a design, quality, and refinement standpoint, the Passat is the equal of both of them.
Are you sure that the W8 Passat is coming here with manual? I remember reading the press release for that car over on Audiworld and the reporter who was in Germany test driving a preproduction model stated 0-60 times for a Tip and Manual and then added that the manual won't be coming to the good old USA. I would think they wouldn't allow a manual here precisely for the reasons you both cite, basically it would cut Audi's throat. That is why the Passat with 4motion does not come in a manual here now, so as not to undercut the A4/A6 offerings. If a W8 does make it to our shores with manual and 4motion I would not only have to test drive one but have to consider it as an option when new car time rolls around. Any thoughts on what the W8 status is or what your impressions are of this move by VW, lets hear them!
Brian
That means something to most of us who frequent these boards. Call me shallow, but if I wasn't in this for at least a little "prestige factor", I'd probably stick with a Nissan.
I don't quite think VW will spend the money to qualify a W8 Passat with a manual. I don't know their sales target, but I would expect they can't move as many units as a V6 Passat 4Motion, so why spend the extra money to qualify a W8 Passat with a manual thru EPA and DOT? Plus yes, it'd eat into Audi's butter and cream, although VW doesn't seem to mind using the a 180hp version of the 1.8T in the VW line and the 170hp version on the A4 1.8T.
Billy
Like pierce said the bottom line is popping 38k for VW is going to hard to swallow.
DL
I do not think the full treatment will come here -- wait for the Phaeton for that. But if you think 38K is a lot for a VW what do you think of a 70K VW?
My USofA sources tell me that for 2003 there WILL be a sported up, tarted up, manual tranny W8 -- and you are right about such a vehicle possibly eating into the Audi market a little bit.
You see there is a school of thought that says (and this applies only to the Passat at the present time) the VW Passat GLX w/4Motion and NOW the W8 is a "poor person's Audi."
OK, if this line of thinking has any merit whatsoever -- here goes:
1. a twenty something husband and/or wife (probably white collar) with some post high school education, probably even a college degree and an up and coming career -- wants a German "family" sport sedan and can't afford a BMW or Audi and won't consider an Avalon or Camry -- well, the Passat is a very nice high value entre into the "family."
2. Said late twenty something early thirty something VW customer now with a few more dollars in his/her pocket wants to "move up" -- there is no VW to move up to and many who buy VW's don't automatically cross over into the Audi family. But on one of their visits to the new VW showrooms (coming soon) they see W8's, Phaetons and even a pretty glitzy SUV, well then they might stay in the fold and buy the W8, the SUV or some thing else that VW brings out in the post 2004 time frame with MSRP's starting with a 4.
By this time the Audi and VW marquis are separated much less by price and more by "image" -- the sporty Audis at prices from $30K - $90K and the classic luxury VW's at prices from $25K to $80K.
VW aims at Mercedes customers, Audi aims at BMW's. Audi comes out with a true sports car at over $60K and VW keeps upping the content and luxury to be 95% of a Mercedes in content at 80% of the price.
Will this work? Heck if I knew that I could quit my job and sell my company and I could become a automotive market and product analyst. I am repeating what I have read and synthesized over the past 2 years.
Don't look down your nose at VW -- people said the same things about Lexus when they first came out "an uppity Toyota -- who do they think they are, trying to compete with the high buck Germans" -- people no longer look down their noses at Lexus and the laughing is virtually gone.
Will VW be able to pull off a "Lexus" in the marketplace? Beats me. But I will NOT bet AGAINST them.
I have driven a 2001(.5)? Passat GLX 2.8 w/4Motion. It is in some ways very Audi-like. The hunk of money put into the upcoming products may not gaurantee success and it may not ever convince any one of us to speak with great respect about the Peoples Car -- but I kinda think that Dr. Piech and his successors "ain't no dummies!"
I pretty close to buying a 1.8TQ, but I'm split on whether to go for the tip or the manual transmission.
From test driving both types, there seems to be a huge difference in gearing between the transmissions. The manual revs much higher on highway speeds. I'm curious about the fuel savings on the manual because of the high revs. Does anyone know what kind of fuel economy does the manual and automatic get at around 80mph?
Also, the tip transmission seemed a little sluggish accelerating from a stop. Is this because of the learning transmission or does it lag in low rpms?
Thanks,
Roger
Billy
Go for the manual. You won't regret it, but you might regret getting the Tip. JMO.