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BMW's scheduled maintenace was only 3yr-36k while Audi's is 4yr-50k. That also played a part when I picked my A4.
Exactly like you said, both are excellent cars. I am just trying to make a point that if you compare the contents that BMW and Audi give you, Audi gives you a lot more for a lot less. I could very well make the argument that by paying the same price you get an AWD vehicle which corners and handles better in real-world weather than a RWD vehicle.
Billy
DL-- *heh* sorry... disregard my previous post. After re-reading your original and subsequent posts, --guess I wasn't really reading what you were saying carefully-- I see that you were specifically comparing the 3-series with RWD and the A4 1.8T quattro. You obviously thought the 3-series with RWD was a better value for your money than the A4 with quattro or you wouldn't have purchased one. I'm not totally denying the merits of your argument. I may have done the same thing and may someday be a Bimmer owner myself ...but it just so happened at the time, I felt that I was getting a lot of content for under $30k with the A4.
But yes, I do understand and agree with your point which started this thread ...that FWD is something which we never want to go back to. RWD with BMW's traction control has to be a blast to drive --no arguing with that!
--'rocco
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Billy
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
--'rocco
As i Specifically stated that i was not making any comparo of X car vs Y but more of a additional comment about the FWD.I had forgoten you are now getting a FWD Honda instead of a 3er, i was not meaning to upset you.Its more of a personnel preference.
Rocco: i hear what your saying.Actually i started out wanting a A4 but the main reason i choose 3er over A4 was in 1999 the new 3er was out and the new A4 was not , i did not want to take a washing on a older body style ,as happened in the past.I had forgotten about the short time BMW had the manual A/C and the lighter steering.. it was definatly a wrong that they have corrected far as i know.
Brave:your right about resale and you will be happy to know im setting at a 71% residual after 34 months right now.Even higher than i had hoped for ,especially considering the used car flooded market nowdays.
Regards,
DL
There are obviously many things to consider. As I said, my quattro has proven itself on more than one occasion...and I know exactly what 'rocco means by a "certain mechanical (?) "oneness" (?) --with the road" which is difficult to explain unless you drive the Audi quattro for a while. Also, a big consideration is the fact that quattros ususally yield better lease deals due to the higher residuals and better money factors. I'm just tired of the unsatisfactory mileage since I make several trips a year. I love fine automobiles, but it's getting tougher and tougher being a whore to gas prices and the BS behind it all. But sometimes that's the price you have to pay for the refinement and safety of a fine automobile. Hey, I heard the Yugo is coming back.......
I apologize to the board if my comments were misconstrued as hostile. Carry on;)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
keeping on topic i was finally about to find a local dealers New inventory list. thanks for the help.
Regards,
DL
Torque on the Audi 1.8T engine also arrives a lot sooner than the BMW engine. The BMW is more fun to drive at higher rpm's, vs the Audi which you get 100% of the torque from around 2000rpm to 5000rpm.
Billy
There is more body roll than I like but I do not want the sports suspension having to swap to winter tires every season.
I'd also like to hear the continuing saga of deedubs' shopping and learning to drive stick shift experiences. I'd think you'd have hundreds of cars to choose from if you're looking for a sedan. How did your stick shift lesson go? Did you shop for a car in the Bay area?
CAR: A4 Avant 1.8T, Dolphin/Plat, Tip. No Sport Package or Bose
EXTERIOR: OK, I'm biased, but I still think it's a beautiful car and a great color combo.
INTERIOR: I've noticed that a lot of car magazines describe other cars' interiors in reviews as "not quite up to Audi standards" and I see why. Materials quality is excellent, as are the ergonomics. Cupholders are indeed deficient but as I rarely have beverages in the car, no biggie. Everything is comfortable. The "leatherette" is high quality and everyone who sits in it thinks it's leather. Little extra touches abound.
PERFORMANCE: I am most definitely not a member of the go-fast club. That being said, I am more than happy with the power in the 1.8T; there is always enough to pass, and acceleration feels peppy to me. I personally don't miss the manual tranny. the maual mode on the Tip is seldom used, but fun every now and then. Cornering is brisk and the car is fun to drive.
REGRETS: None whatsoever. I am completely happy with my choice at this point.
- Rick
Thats a long wait too....best i recall i ordered my current 3er from carsdirect on about 05/01/99 and took delivery on 06/12/99. i dont think i could take a longer wait ...
DL
You know, I think my attraction to the atlas grey had a lot to do with the fact that the car was sitting inside on the showroom floor. It was super glossy, and it had chrome rails vs. the black rails on the 1.8t. I still think there's something different about the steering wheels--the 3.0 was leather--anyone know?
I'm not willing to pay an extra 10k for a 3.0, and I don't want a V6 engine anyway, but I loved every single detail on the A4 3.0 Avant. Then back outside, where the 1.8T Avant was sitting, a little dusty, and trying to absorb the color wearing sunglasses, it just seemed a tad inferior. And I really do mean a tad.
Then the salesperson pointed to two Allroads standing side by side outside, one was silver and the other atlas, and the difference was barely noticeable. We already have a silver Forester, so I wanted something different, and the dolphin jumped at me the first time I saw it sometime last winter. The salesperson said something interesting about the pearlescent color when I asked--he said the way the color changes in the light depending on the angle is from the ground up brass Audi puts in the paint--"you know, old church bells and school bells--" I liked the thought.
DL
I have been reading in the press that tiptronic is "crude and slow" compared to "multitronic". Somebody asked in an earlier post if anyone had compared the 2 transmissions... that would be an interesting opinion to read.
hfb - congrats!
Rick
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I envy you, hfb--let us know how you like it detail by detail after you've driven it a few miles.
As an FYI, I also got an additional $600 off the price of the A4 for the Audi Loyalty program as I also own an allroad!
Congrats again on your new A4!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Perhaps BMW's are better cars than Audis -- although I think they are different and I prefer the Audi -- but the comparison between BMW's and Audi's if done on a price basis and only a price basis generally has one comparing cars that are very close in content and not very close in price -- or has one able to take a step up the Audi line to cost as much as the "comparable" BMW. An A6 2.7T with sport package compared to a well equipped 530 still shows the BMW to be "expensive."
Obviously the same is true with the 330xi and the A4 quattro.
Great summary!
Do you feel that when Audi puts the "multitronic" tranny in the entire lineup of vehicles, will older Audi's w/"tip" be substantially "devalued" due to the radical new trasnsmission? Thanks in advance for your opinion.... (When I hear from the Auto Magazines that "tip" is "crude and slow" compared to "multitronic", I start to shudder what my '002.7T might be worth in the used market.)
Regards,
DL
And, I think that the multitronic will co-exist with the already in production 6spd Tiptronic (which will be in the upcoming A8 and is already in the new BMW 745 (although not using the name Tiptronic).
For what it is worth, I think a 6spd Tip -- at this moment in time -- would be the transmission that both the performance oriented driver (who might only consider a manual) and the "conventional" driver (which is not meant to imply that those who have automatic transmissions do not care about performance) would love. The multitronic may be the transmission of the future -- right now I think it is mostly just "cool technology" that due to the fact that it doesn't YET work with quattro has limited appeal.
Anyway, if you buy a brand new car keep it for 3 model years and trade it in -- and in the mean time major changes have been made to the subsequent models -- I do not think you will be killed on resale value due to a transmission evolution.
For me, if I were looking at a used car (Audi) I would -- and this is just an example -- not buy one that did not have an airbag or ABS or ESP -- all other things being equal in the used car market, a "sound and reliable" 5spd Tiptronic transmission in a three year old car would not, in and of itself, make the car less desirable (in the context of buying a used car). The only contradiction to this would be if I were looking at say 1999 Audi's versus BMW's or Volvos or whatever and they all had -- for example -- multitronic transmissions, except the Audi.
The marketplace -- generally -- works in such a way that it is unlikely that several "comparable" products from 3 generations ago will have radically different "features."
I guess that this is the very long way of saying "don't worry about it!"
Talking about the new A8 w/6-speed tip, I know someone who was looking for a used A8 and found a great deal on a '97, but turned it down because the "tip" transmission didn't start until the '98 models! This person obviously wanted the "tip" transmission. I was surprised to hear this, I thought this tranny started w/ the intro A8 back in '94 or so. My first AUDI was an '89 100 w/2.2 liter 136hp 5-cylinder. The top speed was 107 mph @5000 rpm! Just had the standard "D" automatic tranny. It is exciting watching all the new automotive improvements coming from Audi in the last 12 years!
No biggie one way or 'nother.
By the way, the preceding was not meant to trash the tip -- it is just that mostly D does it better than I can -- this transmission is smart -- and so was the transmission on the non-tip A8 in 1997.
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Are the pirelli p6000s tires the car came with especially bad as far as vibration/etc.? Does anyone else have similar noises? Am I crazy?
I did drive a 1.8T w/pirelli sport tires, it is much noisier riding than the standard Conti rubber on the 2.7T, however the car did corner and handle better.
Check it out!
Pat
Sedans Host
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
For 2003 -- and I am speaking of the allroad in this case -- more colors become available, but when you order heated seats you only get front seats heated and no steering wheel heat. These may seem to be little things -- and in terms of money they are -- which baffles me and pisses me off. Why not say "rear seat heaters $150 -- and have a package deal that allows you to purchase seat heaters and steering wheel heaters, etc etc."
So, I tried to order a 2002 -- na baby na -- too late. So IF I move forward with a 2003, I have to take less content. And the content was told to me too late to make a decision.
Anyway the 2003's are the only ones able to be ordered. I suspect that as each day passes the window for ordering 02's is closing. But from another point of view, why would you order an 02 when you could get an 03 in the same time frame (approximately)? Even if the '03's MSRP is up a percent or two, the lease price on an 03 will be less than an 02 (residuals, you know).
I am mixing my answer here -- because I am so miffed that Audi seems to be nickle and diming the customer. I mean for pity's sake if you are buying a car (the Audi Family) that generally ranges in price from $30,000 to $80,000 (the allroad would be $51,000) why would you care if the heater steering wheel was $50 more? I understand that. What I don't understand is the reduction in content as we move forward -- but the real crime, the real disservice is the removal of CHOICE! What the heck are they thinking?
It ALMOST makes me want to shop another brand -- I said almost.
Grrrrrr!
PS -- the 2003 TT will have an automatic transmission (180HP version only) available too!
Hear, hear! I could not have said it better myself Mark! I agree it is almost like a bait and switch. Let's get these USA customers that are seriously shopping our Marque along with some other European pedigrees, namely BMW, Mercedes, Jag, Volvo, Saab, and show them we have BETTER option packages, more choices, lower prices and provide a better overall value. Then a couple of years later when we have these people's money we'll pull the plug on it all and give them the shaft.
And another thing that fries me lately about this whole Audi "family thing" is this: If I go to a Dealer for an oil change I think they should be able to absorb the cost of synthetic oil for their customers. It is the price of doing good business and having customers. If they buy in bulk they should get a great deal on oil. (Better than any of us can!) Also, when going to a Dealer cleaning a car out from top to bottom and a wash is not much of an extra cost but it makes a wonderful impression. And all I mean by cleaning is a wipe down in the front dash, clean windows inside and a quick vacuum. And this should be available to everyone whether you own an A4 1.8T FWD manual/CVT or all the way up to an S8. The customer should come first and I am starting to see an erosion of this philosophy. Just my observations lately.
Brian
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I "never get no crap" from my dealer -- nuttin' but love, nuttin' but love.
This dealer is the "poster child" for the way dealers should be in my opinion: Northland Porsche-Audi in Cincinnapolis! Can't endorse them high enough. (And no I don't work for Audi or the dealer -- they have "bribed me" with exemplary service since 1978!).