Well if you are comparing prices how can you compare an AWD to a RWD car when Audi is charging $1750 for Quattro? That's your big price difference there. You are also looking at 2002 BMW's which is fair but when I bought my car it was 2001 and the base BMW didn't have Cd player, foglights nor climate control. Oh, on the 2001.5, it also got the convenience pkg with sunroof and dimming mirrors (both in and out) for only $500. I know Audi now charges $1000 only on the sunroof and BMW charges it in the Premium pkg.
BMW's scheduled maintenace was only 3yr-36k while Audi's is 4yr-50k. That also played a part when I picked my A4.
Exactly like you said, both are excellent cars. I am just trying to make a point that if you compare the contents that BMW and Audi give you, Audi gives you a lot more for a lot less. I could very well make the argument that by paying the same price you get an AWD vehicle which corners and handles better in real-world weather than a RWD vehicle.
Hello all, I haven't gotten my car yet, and I'm not sure when I will now. I'm going up to the bay area this weekend, so it'll have to be after that for sure. It ended up that the car I wanted (which was in Audi storage or something) was promised to another dealership before I could get my hands on it, so I should have acted faster! Now my dealership is searching for another one. I still like the black/black, especially because I don't have to pay for the extra metallic paint. I'll just have to deal with melting in the summer... thank goodness for a/c and windows (and probably tinted windows at that). I'm also hoping to learn stick this weekend because my friend up north said he'd teach me. hooray! wish me luck!
DL-- *heh* sorry... disregard my previous post. After re-reading your original and subsequent posts, --guess I wasn't really reading what you were saying carefully-- I see that you were specifically comparing the 3-series with RWD and the A4 1.8T quattro. You obviously thought the 3-series with RWD was a better value for your money than the A4 with quattro or you wouldn't have purchased one. I'm not totally denying the merits of your argument. I may have done the same thing and may someday be a Bimmer owner myself ...but it just so happened at the time, I felt that I was getting a lot of content for under $30k with the A4.
But yes, I do understand and agree with your point which started this thread ...that FWD is something which we never want to go back to. RWD with BMW's traction control has to be a blast to drive --no arguing with that!
start a BMW vs. Audi argument here. It will get out of hand and become ridiculous. There's no end to it. I'm a fan of both cars. Lets keep it to the A4 topic. There's an A4 3.0 vs. 330i thread in the sedan comparisons section. I'm sure there are plenty of 325 vs. 18.TQ arguments there too.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Nope the A4 doesn't have rain sensing wipers. But that means you were test driving when the roads were wet.....did you have a chance to see how Quattro helps out? Especially when you start from a red light?
C'mon now 'rocco. No need to apologize. I'm definitely not becoming the moderator of the board and didn't mean disrespect of any kind to anyone. This A4 thread and the 3 Series thread are 2 of the most civil here in Town Hall. I just didn't want to see the heated BMW vs. Audi, RWD vs. AWD, sticker price, resale value, Quattro vs. BMW DSC-X argument that seems to have infected the other BMW & Audi boards. I've actually learned lots from this thread. You are all extremely knowledgeable and passionate about cars and your A4s. I paid particular attention to the past few posts on driving a stcik as I will be picking up my Manual Transmission Equipped 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH this Saturday. I know how to drive stick, but I'm a little rusty and the Prelude will be my first car so equipped.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
You are right - we own both an '01 A4 1.8T Q and an '01 325i. They are very similarly equipped (both have 5-spd, xenons, vinyl seats, etc.). The A4 has the Quattro; the 325 has the sport pack. The mid-year 2001 325 got the cruise control, auto climate, and a couple of other goodies as standard. The A4 came out 4+ grand cheaper and it has a better warranty. The A4 is still marginally better equipped - an alarm system, a Homelink system and a trunk net come to mind. I love the A4 but I lust after the 325. If the A4 had the sport pack, it would have been a little closer in terms of handling. The 3-series' build quality is better and the car has a more solid feel to it. The 325 will hold its value better, which is reflected in the lease residuals offered by dealers. I'm not sure how the 325 would stack up against the '02 A4 which seems like a much better platform than the A4 that we have. At any rate, both RWD and AWD have their advantages and disadvantages over each other but it's safe for me to say that I'm never going back to FWD.
Bradd dont get all excited far as i know there were no arguments here ... ??
As i Specifically stated that i was not making any comparo of X car vs Y but more of a additional comment about the FWD.I had forgoten you are now getting a FWD Honda instead of a 3er, i was not meaning to upset you.Its more of a personnel preference.
Rocco: i hear what your saying.Actually i started out wanting a A4 but the main reason i choose 3er over A4 was in 1999 the new 3er was out and the new A4 was not , i did not want to take a washing on a older body style ,as happened in the past.I had forgotten about the short time BMW had the manual A/C and the lighter steering.. it was definatly a wrong that they have corrected far as i know.
Brave:your right about resale and you will be happy to know im setting at a 71% residual after 34 months right now.Even higher than i had hoped for ,especially considering the used car flooded market nowdays.
There are obviously many things to consider. As I said, my quattro has proven itself on more than one occasion...and I know exactly what 'rocco means by a "certain mechanical (?) "oneness" (?) --with the road" which is difficult to explain unless you drive the Audi quattro for a while. Also, a big consideration is the fact that quattros ususally yield better lease deals due to the higher residuals and better money factors. I'm just tired of the unsatisfactory mileage since I make several trips a year. I love fine automobiles, but it's getting tougher and tougher being a whore to gas prices and the BS behind it all. But sometimes that's the price you have to pay for the refinement and safety of a fine automobile. Hey, I heard the Yugo is coming back.......
its all good . have you considered getting Lojack for your Honda ? We are getting about 5 to 1 more calls on Hondas that any other car, even had mine broke into.
keeping on topic i was finally about to find a local dealers New inventory list. thanks for the help.
Don't you forget the Audi's "blown four" has a turbo on it. You can't just compare six cylinder vs four cylinder like that. I can also make the argument that the "blown four" 1.8T on the TT makes 225hp, 41hp more than the 184hp straight six base BMW engine. Displacement is not everything in this case.
Torque on the Audi 1.8T engine also arrives a lot sooner than the BMW engine. The BMW is more fun to drive at higher rpm's, vs the Audi which you get 100% of the torque from around 2000rpm to 5000rpm.
I still have a month or maybe even two to wait for my order to come in! I wait by living vicariously through your talk, and there hasn't been much lately!
I'd also like to hear the continuing saga of deedubs' shopping and learning to drive stick shift experiences. I'd think you'd have hundreds of cars to choose from if you're looking for a sedan. How did your stick shift lesson go? Did you shop for a car in the Bay area?
Well gang, the odometer just passed 1K, and I have had my car for about 5 weeks. Here are my thoughts so far.
CAR: A4 Avant 1.8T, Dolphin/Plat, Tip. No Sport Package or Bose
EXTERIOR: OK, I'm biased, but I still think it's a beautiful car and a great color combo.
INTERIOR: I've noticed that a lot of car magazines describe other cars' interiors in reviews as "not quite up to Audi standards" and I see why. Materials quality is excellent, as are the ergonomics. Cupholders are indeed deficient but as I rarely have beverages in the car, no biggie. Everything is comfortable. The "leatherette" is high quality and everyone who sits in it thinks it's leather. Little extra touches abound.
PERFORMANCE: I am most definitely not a member of the go-fast club. That being said, I am more than happy with the power in the 1.8T; there is always enough to pass, and acceleration feels peppy to me. I personally don't miss the manual tranny. the maual mode on the Tip is seldom used, but fun every now and then. Cornering is brisk and the car is fun to drive.
REGRETS: None whatsoever. I am completely happy with my choice at this point.
I'm so glad to hear you're happy with your choice, even down to the color. I sat in an atlas gray avant a few weeks ago--it was a 3.0, and loaded to the gills--and I started to think I liked that color better than dolphin. Then I sat in a 1.8T with minimal options, and I started to think the leather smelled better than the leatherette, and then I started to think the steering wheels felt different. Waiting makes me think too much. I still keep thinking my order is a dream. This is the start of week 10 and all I've heard is that the car is in "preproduction phase." Sounds like another way to say your order has been placed.
I like the look of the Atlas in the brochure and realized that it just comes in Avant.I didnt get to hear about the vehicle you ordered, was it an Avant then ?
Thats a long wait too....best i recall i ordered my current 3er from carsdirect on about 05/01/99 and took delivery on 06/12/99. i dont think i could take a longer wait ...
Yes, I ordered an Avant too, a 1.8T manual, after watching and listening to the buying experiences of about three people here who were waiting for their cars to arrive early this spring. Bluetrane was one of them, and khlmsomething was another--but his might have been a sedan.
You know, I think my attraction to the atlas grey had a lot to do with the fact that the car was sitting inside on the showroom floor. It was super glossy, and it had chrome rails vs. the black rails on the 1.8t. I still think there's something different about the steering wheels--the 3.0 was leather--anyone know?
I'm not willing to pay an extra 10k for a 3.0, and I don't want a V6 engine anyway, but I loved every single detail on the A4 3.0 Avant. Then back outside, where the 1.8T Avant was sitting, a little dusty, and trying to absorb the color wearing sunglasses, it just seemed a tad inferior. And I really do mean a tad.
Then the salesperson pointed to two Allroads standing side by side outside, one was silver and the other atlas, and the difference was barely noticeable. We already have a silver Forester, so I wanted something different, and the dolphin jumped at me the first time I saw it sometime last winter. The salesperson said something interesting about the pearlescent color when I asked--he said the way the color changes in the light depending on the angle is from the ground up brass Audi puts in the paint--"you know, old church bells and school bells--" I liked the thought.
im sure when you see your car on the showroom ready for delivery it will excite you just as much, I recall 3 years ago taking delivery of my 3er and the salesman pointing out MY car , next to a new born its as good as it gets...
Just agreed to buy silver/ebony 3.0Q auto, leather, sunroof, PP, SP, heated seats, xenons and Bose. I should be able to pick up car in 2 to 3 days. Only other car I was seriously considering was BMW 330xi. After two months of debating the merits of each car I am very happy with my decision. This will make both of my cars Audis as my wife drives an 01 allroad.
I agree with 'Rocco, here in St. Paul,MN., nobody buys "fronttrak" on the Audi. The Quattro does give the driver a feeling of "security", especially in wet/snowy weather. I have been reading in the press that tiptronic is "crude and slow" compared to "multitronic". Somebody asked in an earlier post if anyone had compared the 2 transmissions... that would be an interesting opinion to read.
Jill - Don't sweat the colors. Even a little dusty, the Dolphin is beautiful, especially in full sun (it almost seems to change colors in different levels of light). It is very classy looking, and will at least offset your silver Soobie.
Congrats! Very Nice...that ebony interior is gorgeous (my personal favorite)! You got a nice healthy chunk of options I see and a 6 speed too! Keep buying the stick shifts people! We need to keep the manual transmission alive:)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Thanks for the encouraging words, bluetrane! The thing is, when I took my mother to see the car, she just had to say, "it looks a little purple," and now that's all I see! I used to see the grey leaning towards green.
I envy you, hfb--let us know how you like it detail by detail after you've driven it a few miles.
Thanks, but just one correction to your post - I got the automatic. I love driving manual on the weekends, but I have a 70 mile round trip commute into Philadelphia during the week. The city portion of my commute made me opt for the automatic. It was a difficult decision for me but my nerves and legs will be better off for it!
I do want to make a few observations about my test drives of these two cars. First let me say that I really liked both cars - they both have great attributes. I actually think the BMW interior is nicer (as defined by more logical set up and more appealing look and quality finish). The BMW drive feel (steering & handling) was different than the Audi - not necessarily better, just different - I don't think I can describe the diffence as I think you have to experience it for yourself. What I did not like about the BMW was that you can only get one wheel/tire size with the xi and I believe that size (205/50/17) is not enough for "spirited" driving. But my primary issue with the BMW was cost - in round numbers it would have cost me over $5,000 more to get a comparably optioned BMW - that's a big difference. If the price differential was less, then my decision would have been much harder. I realize that there are enough people willing to pay $5,000 more for a BMW - but not me. What I got with my Audi was a car optioned exactly the way I wanted it (every option I wanted was available with the A4), that has great performance characteristics and fabulous AWD reputation - all for $5,000 less than the BMW alternative. This post was not intended to bash BMW 330xi as it's a great car from a great company and I came very close to buying one and everyone that has one seems to be very satisfied.
As an FYI, I also got an additional $600 off the price of the A4 for the Audi Loyalty program as I also own an allroad!
A few months back my parents were looking to get a 330Xi. They loved the way the 330i drove (there were no Xi models on the lot). The dealers really don't negotiate much because the 330Xis (plural) are "sold before they come in." They ended up with an A6 3.0 Quattro.
Congrats again on your new A4!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Your analysis is precisely what anyone looking at an Audi and a BMW should read. Similarly, at least as far as price goes, I have suggested that those looking at a BMW 530 look at both the A6 3.0 (since it is the "logical" comparable) then at an A6 2.7T. My friend's last BMW was fully loaded and was only very slightly south of $50,000 -- indeed, his 5 series at full list price (with the 6 cylinder engine and two wheel drive) was about $200 more than an Audi A6 4.2.
Perhaps BMW's are better cars than Audis -- although I think they are different and I prefer the Audi -- but the comparison between BMW's and Audi's if done on a price basis and only a price basis generally has one comparing cars that are very close in content and not very close in price -- or has one able to take a step up the Audi line to cost as much as the "comparable" BMW. An A6 2.7T with sport package compared to a well equipped 530 still shows the BMW to be "expensive."
Obviously the same is true with the 330xi and the A4 quattro.
Mark, Do you feel that when Audi puts the "multitronic" tranny in the entire lineup of vehicles, will older Audi's w/"tip" be substantially "devalued" due to the radical new trasnsmission? Thanks in advance for your opinion.... (When I hear from the Auto Magazines that "tip" is "crude and slow" compared to "multitronic", I start to shudder what my '002.7T might be worth in the used market.)
To revisit, the stereo issue, the 3er has a HK upgrade for $675.00 , you said your friends car had a a $1200.00 stereo. Did you find out if it is a M3 ?? cause im not aware of any other option.
I would suspect that if and when multitronic is available across the entire line that older cars will be somewhat less desirable -- but I don't think a three year old car with a manu matic will actually compete much with a brand new car, so frankly I would not consider it an issue.
And, I think that the multitronic will co-exist with the already in production 6spd Tiptronic (which will be in the upcoming A8 and is already in the new BMW 745 (although not using the name Tiptronic).
For what it is worth, I think a 6spd Tip -- at this moment in time -- would be the transmission that both the performance oriented driver (who might only consider a manual) and the "conventional" driver (which is not meant to imply that those who have automatic transmissions do not care about performance) would love. The multitronic may be the transmission of the future -- right now I think it is mostly just "cool technology" that due to the fact that it doesn't YET work with quattro has limited appeal.
Anyway, if you buy a brand new car keep it for 3 model years and trade it in -- and in the mean time major changes have been made to the subsequent models -- I do not think you will be killed on resale value due to a transmission evolution.
For me, if I were looking at a used car (Audi) I would -- and this is just an example -- not buy one that did not have an airbag or ABS or ESP -- all other things being equal in the used car market, a "sound and reliable" 5spd Tiptronic transmission in a three year old car would not, in and of itself, make the car less desirable (in the context of buying a used car). The only contradiction to this would be if I were looking at say 1999 Audi's versus BMW's or Volvos or whatever and they all had -- for example -- multitronic transmissions, except the Audi.
The marketplace -- generally -- works in such a way that it is unlikely that several "comparable" products from 3 generations ago will have radically different "features."
I guess that this is the very long way of saying "don't worry about it!"
I think that that the 6-speed "tip" sounds awesome, when Audi uses it on the entire product lineup, it should increase the attractiveness of the overall Audi name in general. Talking about the new A8 w/6-speed tip, I know someone who was looking for a used A8 and found a great deal on a '97, but turned it down because the "tip" transmission didn't start until the '98 models! This person obviously wanted the "tip" transmission. I was surprised to hear this, I thought this tranny started w/ the intro A8 back in '94 or so. My first AUDI was an '89 100 w/2.2 liter 136hp 5-cylinder. The top speed was 107 mph @5000 rpm! Just had the standard "D" automatic tranny. It is exciting watching all the new automotive improvements coming from Audi in the last 12 years!
I owned a 97 A8 with a 5 speed non-tip. I have now owned three 5spd tips. And the difference is what again? I love manual transmission and "vow" my next Audi will be a 6spd manual (currently trying to configure an allroad thusly) -- but the tip 95% of the time is in D, the rest of the time I put it in tip mode and since it decides when to shift out of first gear (same as in the A8 tip and non-tip) I just use it to "hot rod around" in second gear. The 97 A8 will imitate this behavior perfectly. If the 97 A8 looks like a good buy, I would not let the lack of tiptronic change my mind -- tiptronic is nice and so are other manumatics, but as my friend says it is "all yak and no shack!"
No biggie one way or 'nother.
By the way, the preceding was not meant to trash the tip -- it is just that mostly D does it better than I can -- this transmission is smart -- and so was the transmission on the non-tip A8 in 1997.
The Tip transmission in both our '98.5 A4 and '01 allroad do not shift out of first gear automatically, until red line. I understand that this is not the case with at least certain model years (maybe all?) A6's. I agree that this is an underdesirable characteristic for those Audi's that have it, and am glad that ours do not for the rare times that I do want to explore the highest RPM ranges.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I havev a 7-month old 2001.5 A4 1.8T (with sport package, 17" wheels) that rattles something fierce. There seem to be vibrations coming from the sunroof area during acceleration a great deal of the time. The entire right side of the interior -- the seat? the leatherette? the seatbelt? can't tell -- seems to shake terrifically with every bump, every road crack.
Are the pirelli p6000s tires the car came with especially bad as far as vibration/etc.? Does anyone else have similar noises? Am I crazy?
I had the same "vibration" problem coming from the right side of my'00 2.7T.Someone had put the front passenger seat all the way down, and it must have made some sort of "contact" w/the flooring. I simply "upped" the passenger front bucket-seat and the "vibration" went away. I'm not saying this will solve your problem, it will be worth a try. I did drive a 1.8T w/pirelli sport tires, it is much noisier riding than the standard Conti rubber on the 2.7T, however the car did corner and handle better.
Edmunds.com has begun a long-term road test on a just-purchased 2002 A4. The introduction to the series of monthly updates is available in the Helpful Links box on the left side of this page.
I heard from my friend who was talking to his salesperson when his 2002 A4 3.0Q 6 Speed was in for its 10,000 mile service that "Audi is no longer producing 2002 A4 3.0s (plural) to order from factory spec, the rest of the factory year will concentrate on producing A4 1.8t models. However, there is a plentiful supply of A4 3.0s on order and in dealer's stock to satisfy demand." Anybody else hear this? Any thoughts Mark? The dealership is New Country in Greenwich, CT, the largest volume Audi dealership in the world. The salesman has no reason to lie to my friend who had just brought his car in for service.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I finally got the information on the 2003's two days ago -- and boy was I disappointed.
For 2003 -- and I am speaking of the allroad in this case -- more colors become available, but when you order heated seats you only get front seats heated and no steering wheel heat. These may seem to be little things -- and in terms of money they are -- which baffles me and pisses me off. Why not say "rear seat heaters $150 -- and have a package deal that allows you to purchase seat heaters and steering wheel heaters, etc etc."
So, I tried to order a 2002 -- na baby na -- too late. So IF I move forward with a 2003, I have to take less content. And the content was told to me too late to make a decision.
Anyway the 2003's are the only ones able to be ordered. I suspect that as each day passes the window for ordering 02's is closing. But from another point of view, why would you order an 02 when you could get an 03 in the same time frame (approximately)? Even if the '03's MSRP is up a percent or two, the lease price on an 03 will be less than an 02 (residuals, you know).
I am mixing my answer here -- because I am so miffed that Audi seems to be nickle and diming the customer. I mean for pity's sake if you are buying a car (the Audi Family) that generally ranges in price from $30,000 to $80,000 (the allroad would be $51,000) why would you care if the heater steering wheel was $50 more? I understand that. What I don't understand is the reduction in content as we move forward -- but the real crime, the real disservice is the removal of CHOICE! What the heck are they thinking?
It ALMOST makes me want to shop another brand -- I said almost.
Grrrrrr!
PS -- the 2003 TT will have an automatic transmission (180HP version only) available too!
I just switched from p6000s to p6s (on a 2001 Volvo V70 T5; 235/45/17") and really like the difference in daily driving--much more quiet and less harsh. I expect the 6000s outperform P6s on the track, but I really disliked the 6000s. Plus they are the worst tires in snow I have ever driven. My prediction is you'll like your car a lot better as soon as you ditch the p6000s.
Mark: Hear, hear! I could not have said it better myself Mark! I agree it is almost like a bait and switch. Let's get these USA customers that are seriously shopping our Marque along with some other European pedigrees, namely BMW, Mercedes, Jag, Volvo, Saab, and show them we have BETTER option packages, more choices, lower prices and provide a better overall value. Then a couple of years later when we have these people's money we'll pull the plug on it all and give them the shaft. And another thing that fries me lately about this whole Audi "family thing" is this: If I go to a Dealer for an oil change I think they should be able to absorb the cost of synthetic oil for their customers. It is the price of doing good business and having customers. If they buy in bulk they should get a great deal on oil. (Better than any of us can!) Also, when going to a Dealer cleaning a car out from top to bottom and a wash is not much of an extra cost but it makes a wonderful impression. And all I mean by cleaning is a wipe down in the front dash, clean windows inside and a quick vacuum. And this should be available to everyone whether you own an A4 1.8T FWD manual/CVT or all the way up to an S8. The customer should come first and I am starting to see an erosion of this philosophy. Just my observations lately. Brian
I agree w/Brian, synthetic oil should be available from the dealer at a competitive price! In fact, Porsche demands synthetic oil as part of the warranty oil change. It would be nice to see some "small touches" when your Audi is brought in for service. I know in my business I do little extra things for free/reduced cost all the time! They do wash the car when I bring it in, but I have black and it is obvious that they gave it a 30 sec. "once over." I'm not asking for a free polish/detail job, but a little more effort would really distinguish the Audi brand over other dealers! Maybe I'm just too "fussy" , and should take whatever crap the dealer gives me!!!
I have nuttin' but love for my dealer. Example, car is always cleaned and the tires dressed no matter what the service is. Example, I can call the dealer and he'll come and get my car, service it and return it -- cleaned of course. Example, I almost always get a new A6 3.0 or A4 1.8T as a loaner when mine is in for service -- once or twice I got an S4 (but it was an automatic). Example, my wife's power seat mechanism failed on a Sunday and the service manager and his toddler son came to our house and reconnected the switch and the seat was fixed! Example -- well you get the idea. They aren't perfect -- but boy do they try to be so.
I "never get no crap" from my dealer -- nuttin' but love, nuttin' but love.
This dealer is the "poster child" for the way dealers should be in my opinion: Northland Porsche-Audi in Cincinnapolis! Can't endorse them high enough. (And no I don't work for Audi or the dealer -- they have "bribed me" with exemplary service since 1978!).
Comments
BMW's scheduled maintenace was only 3yr-36k while Audi's is 4yr-50k. That also played a part when I picked my A4.
Exactly like you said, both are excellent cars. I am just trying to make a point that if you compare the contents that BMW and Audi give you, Audi gives you a lot more for a lot less. I could very well make the argument that by paying the same price you get an AWD vehicle which corners and handles better in real-world weather than a RWD vehicle.
Billy
DL-- *heh* sorry... disregard my previous post. After re-reading your original and subsequent posts, --guess I wasn't really reading what you were saying carefully-- I see that you were specifically comparing the 3-series with RWD and the A4 1.8T quattro. You obviously thought the 3-series with RWD was a better value for your money than the A4 with quattro or you wouldn't have purchased one. I'm not totally denying the merits of your argument. I may have done the same thing and may someday be a Bimmer owner myself ...but it just so happened at the time, I felt that I was getting a lot of content for under $30k with the A4.
But yes, I do understand and agree with your point which started this thread ...that FWD is something which we never want to go back to. RWD with BMW's traction control has to be a blast to drive --no arguing with that!
--'rocco
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Billy
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
--'rocco
As i Specifically stated that i was not making any comparo of X car vs Y but more of a additional comment about the FWD.I had forgoten you are now getting a FWD Honda instead of a 3er, i was not meaning to upset you.Its more of a personnel preference.
Rocco: i hear what your saying.Actually i started out wanting a A4 but the main reason i choose 3er over A4 was in 1999 the new 3er was out and the new A4 was not , i did not want to take a washing on a older body style ,as happened in the past.I had forgotten about the short time BMW had the manual A/C and the lighter steering.. it was definatly a wrong that they have corrected far as i know.
Brave:your right about resale and you will be happy to know im setting at a 71% residual after 34 months right now.Even higher than i had hoped for ,especially considering the used car flooded market nowdays.
Regards,
DL
There are obviously many things to consider. As I said, my quattro has proven itself on more than one occasion...and I know exactly what 'rocco means by a "certain mechanical (?) "oneness" (?) --with the road" which is difficult to explain unless you drive the Audi quattro for a while. Also, a big consideration is the fact that quattros ususally yield better lease deals due to the higher residuals and better money factors. I'm just tired of the unsatisfactory mileage since I make several trips a year. I love fine automobiles, but it's getting tougher and tougher being a whore to gas prices and the BS behind it all. But sometimes that's the price you have to pay for the refinement and safety of a fine automobile. Hey, I heard the Yugo is coming back.......
I apologize to the board if my comments were misconstrued as hostile. Carry on;)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
keeping on topic i was finally about to find a local dealers New inventory list. thanks for the help.
Regards,
DL
Torque on the Audi 1.8T engine also arrives a lot sooner than the BMW engine. The BMW is more fun to drive at higher rpm's, vs the Audi which you get 100% of the torque from around 2000rpm to 5000rpm.
Billy
There is more body roll than I like but I do not want the sports suspension having to swap to winter tires every season.
I'd also like to hear the continuing saga of deedubs' shopping and learning to drive stick shift experiences. I'd think you'd have hundreds of cars to choose from if you're looking for a sedan. How did your stick shift lesson go? Did you shop for a car in the Bay area?
CAR: A4 Avant 1.8T, Dolphin/Plat, Tip. No Sport Package or Bose
EXTERIOR: OK, I'm biased, but I still think it's a beautiful car and a great color combo.
INTERIOR: I've noticed that a lot of car magazines describe other cars' interiors in reviews as "not quite up to Audi standards" and I see why. Materials quality is excellent, as are the ergonomics. Cupholders are indeed deficient but as I rarely have beverages in the car, no biggie. Everything is comfortable. The "leatherette" is high quality and everyone who sits in it thinks it's leather. Little extra touches abound.
PERFORMANCE: I am most definitely not a member of the go-fast club. That being said, I am more than happy with the power in the 1.8T; there is always enough to pass, and acceleration feels peppy to me. I personally don't miss the manual tranny. the maual mode on the Tip is seldom used, but fun every now and then. Cornering is brisk and the car is fun to drive.
REGRETS: None whatsoever. I am completely happy with my choice at this point.
- Rick
Thats a long wait too....best i recall i ordered my current 3er from carsdirect on about 05/01/99 and took delivery on 06/12/99. i dont think i could take a longer wait ...
DL
You know, I think my attraction to the atlas grey had a lot to do with the fact that the car was sitting inside on the showroom floor. It was super glossy, and it had chrome rails vs. the black rails on the 1.8t. I still think there's something different about the steering wheels--the 3.0 was leather--anyone know?
I'm not willing to pay an extra 10k for a 3.0, and I don't want a V6 engine anyway, but I loved every single detail on the A4 3.0 Avant. Then back outside, where the 1.8T Avant was sitting, a little dusty, and trying to absorb the color wearing sunglasses, it just seemed a tad inferior. And I really do mean a tad.
Then the salesperson pointed to two Allroads standing side by side outside, one was silver and the other atlas, and the difference was barely noticeable. We already have a silver Forester, so I wanted something different, and the dolphin jumped at me the first time I saw it sometime last winter. The salesperson said something interesting about the pearlescent color when I asked--he said the way the color changes in the light depending on the angle is from the ground up brass Audi puts in the paint--"you know, old church bells and school bells--" I liked the thought.
DL
I have been reading in the press that tiptronic is "crude and slow" compared to "multitronic". Somebody asked in an earlier post if anyone had compared the 2 transmissions... that would be an interesting opinion to read.
hfb - congrats!
Rick
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I envy you, hfb--let us know how you like it detail by detail after you've driven it a few miles.
As an FYI, I also got an additional $600 off the price of the A4 for the Audi Loyalty program as I also own an allroad!
Congrats again on your new A4!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Perhaps BMW's are better cars than Audis -- although I think they are different and I prefer the Audi -- but the comparison between BMW's and Audi's if done on a price basis and only a price basis generally has one comparing cars that are very close in content and not very close in price -- or has one able to take a step up the Audi line to cost as much as the "comparable" BMW. An A6 2.7T with sport package compared to a well equipped 530 still shows the BMW to be "expensive."
Obviously the same is true with the 330xi and the A4 quattro.
Great summary!
Do you feel that when Audi puts the "multitronic" tranny in the entire lineup of vehicles, will older Audi's w/"tip" be substantially "devalued" due to the radical new trasnsmission? Thanks in advance for your opinion.... (When I hear from the Auto Magazines that "tip" is "crude and slow" compared to "multitronic", I start to shudder what my '002.7T might be worth in the used market.)
Regards,
DL
And, I think that the multitronic will co-exist with the already in production 6spd Tiptronic (which will be in the upcoming A8 and is already in the new BMW 745 (although not using the name Tiptronic).
For what it is worth, I think a 6spd Tip -- at this moment in time -- would be the transmission that both the performance oriented driver (who might only consider a manual) and the "conventional" driver (which is not meant to imply that those who have automatic transmissions do not care about performance) would love. The multitronic may be the transmission of the future -- right now I think it is mostly just "cool technology" that due to the fact that it doesn't YET work with quattro has limited appeal.
Anyway, if you buy a brand new car keep it for 3 model years and trade it in -- and in the mean time major changes have been made to the subsequent models -- I do not think you will be killed on resale value due to a transmission evolution.
For me, if I were looking at a used car (Audi) I would -- and this is just an example -- not buy one that did not have an airbag or ABS or ESP -- all other things being equal in the used car market, a "sound and reliable" 5spd Tiptronic transmission in a three year old car would not, in and of itself, make the car less desirable (in the context of buying a used car). The only contradiction to this would be if I were looking at say 1999 Audi's versus BMW's or Volvos or whatever and they all had -- for example -- multitronic transmissions, except the Audi.
The marketplace -- generally -- works in such a way that it is unlikely that several "comparable" products from 3 generations ago will have radically different "features."
I guess that this is the very long way of saying "don't worry about it!"
Talking about the new A8 w/6-speed tip, I know someone who was looking for a used A8 and found a great deal on a '97, but turned it down because the "tip" transmission didn't start until the '98 models! This person obviously wanted the "tip" transmission. I was surprised to hear this, I thought this tranny started w/ the intro A8 back in '94 or so. My first AUDI was an '89 100 w/2.2 liter 136hp 5-cylinder. The top speed was 107 mph @5000 rpm! Just had the standard "D" automatic tranny. It is exciting watching all the new automotive improvements coming from Audi in the last 12 years!
No biggie one way or 'nother.
By the way, the preceding was not meant to trash the tip -- it is just that mostly D does it better than I can -- this transmission is smart -- and so was the transmission on the non-tip A8 in 1997.
True Cost to Own (TCO): Revealing the Hidden Costs of Car Ownership
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/59897/article.html
kirstie_h
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Are the pirelli p6000s tires the car came with especially bad as far as vibration/etc.? Does anyone else have similar noises? Am I crazy?
I did drive a 1.8T w/pirelli sport tires, it is much noisier riding than the standard Conti rubber on the 2.7T, however the car did corner and handle better.
Check it out!
Pat
Sedans Host
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
For 2003 -- and I am speaking of the allroad in this case -- more colors become available, but when you order heated seats you only get front seats heated and no steering wheel heat. These may seem to be little things -- and in terms of money they are -- which baffles me and pisses me off. Why not say "rear seat heaters $150 -- and have a package deal that allows you to purchase seat heaters and steering wheel heaters, etc etc."
So, I tried to order a 2002 -- na baby na -- too late. So IF I move forward with a 2003, I have to take less content. And the content was told to me too late to make a decision.
Anyway the 2003's are the only ones able to be ordered. I suspect that as each day passes the window for ordering 02's is closing. But from another point of view, why would you order an 02 when you could get an 03 in the same time frame (approximately)? Even if the '03's MSRP is up a percent or two, the lease price on an 03 will be less than an 02 (residuals, you know).
I am mixing my answer here -- because I am so miffed that Audi seems to be nickle and diming the customer. I mean for pity's sake if you are buying a car (the Audi Family) that generally ranges in price from $30,000 to $80,000 (the allroad would be $51,000) why would you care if the heater steering wheel was $50 more? I understand that. What I don't understand is the reduction in content as we move forward -- but the real crime, the real disservice is the removal of CHOICE! What the heck are they thinking?
It ALMOST makes me want to shop another brand -- I said almost.
Grrrrrr!
PS -- the 2003 TT will have an automatic transmission (180HP version only) available too!
Hear, hear! I could not have said it better myself Mark! I agree it is almost like a bait and switch. Let's get these USA customers that are seriously shopping our Marque along with some other European pedigrees, namely BMW, Mercedes, Jag, Volvo, Saab, and show them we have BETTER option packages, more choices, lower prices and provide a better overall value. Then a couple of years later when we have these people's money we'll pull the plug on it all and give them the shaft.
And another thing that fries me lately about this whole Audi "family thing" is this: If I go to a Dealer for an oil change I think they should be able to absorb the cost of synthetic oil for their customers. It is the price of doing good business and having customers. If they buy in bulk they should get a great deal on oil. (Better than any of us can!) Also, when going to a Dealer cleaning a car out from top to bottom and a wash is not much of an extra cost but it makes a wonderful impression. And all I mean by cleaning is a wipe down in the front dash, clean windows inside and a quick vacuum. And this should be available to everyone whether you own an A4 1.8T FWD manual/CVT or all the way up to an S8. The customer should come first and I am starting to see an erosion of this philosophy. Just my observations lately.
Brian
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I "never get no crap" from my dealer -- nuttin' but love, nuttin' but love.
This dealer is the "poster child" for the way dealers should be in my opinion: Northland Porsche-Audi in Cincinnapolis! Can't endorse them high enough. (And no I don't work for Audi or the dealer -- they have "bribed me" with exemplary service since 1978!).