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It's Time to Play "WHO AM I"?

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    hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Yeah, the Prelude was probably the best handling FWD car, just as the BMW 1 or 3 series is generally considered the best handling RWDer.

    To those who might know, does the the Acura RSX handle as well as the Prelude? The Prelude had a double wishbone suspension, while the RSX didn't. Many Honda/Acura fans were very disappointed when this feature was dropped on the Civic and RSX. Was the double wishbone really such a big deal?
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    boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    It was a big deal to traditional Honda/Acura fans. I've driven both many times and can't feel much of a difference on the street, but it might be a different thing on the track.

    The change to Macphersons was done for better packaging under the hood at the cost of performance.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

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    boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    edited March 2010
    F150, not the Escort. But you got the other 2. :D This is accoring to this site: 5 most successful cars ever

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They sure are. Mistu sales are down about 80% over the last decade.

    They have the Outlander Sport and Miev electric for model year 2012, but is that too little too late?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Integra Type R was largely considered the peak of that model, the RSX that followed never quite caught on and ended up getting the axe.
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    boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    The Integra Type R is one of my must have cars. :D

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,184
    Good luck finding one that hasn't been modified into ruin
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    boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I know, that's the challenge!

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

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    texasestexases Member Posts: 10,716
    Kinda like finding a nice 1st gen GTI...
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    boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Yeah, those are either rusted, beat up, or overmodified.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

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    hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "...can't feel much of a difference on the street, but..."

    Could you attribute any difference to the double wishbone?
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    hudsonthedoghudsonthedog Member Posts: 552
    Yeah, the Prelude was probably the best handling FWD car

    I believe the best handling front-drive car was the Lotus Elan.
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    hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited March 2010
    Did the Elan feature a double wishbone suspension?
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2010
    The original MINI COOPER was a pretty ferocious handler in its day...of course these were often race-prepped cars when they were dealing death blows to RWD cars with 4X the engine size.
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    xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    edited March 2010
    The original MINI COOPER was a pretty ferocious handler in its day

    In fairness, one should compare FWDs in classes by overall weight of cars and perhaps engine displacement. The BMW Mini has better handling/slalom than larger FWD cars because of lighter weight. But, well-engineered FWD cars can do slalom just as well as RWD.

    One of my current vehicles is a 2004 Acura TL which has double wishbone suspension front and rear. This is what Edmunds said about it in a road test with regard to topic of “Handling”:

    “The TL feels extremely confident on the street, but it took several runs through our slalom to confirm its status as one of the best-handling front-wheel drivers we've sampled. The steering is properly weighted and offers stellar feedback. The engine's broad torque range and progressive throttle response made powering through the slalom easy, and the smart chassis/suspension tuning allowed us to place the car easily between cones. Technically, it may not be as "fun" as a BMW 3 Series, but it obviously goes through the slalom just as rapidly. — Karl Brauer”

    Edmunds recorded slalom speed of 67.5 MPH for the 2004 TL. A later test by Edmunds of a 2006 BMW 330i posted a slalom speed of 66.4 MPH. TL had higher speed, better "measured" handling. But, RWD fans will say BMW is more fun to drive than a FWD.
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    texasestexases Member Posts: 10,716
    I think at the time, the Prelude was best fwd available in the US. The older Elan was rwd, the newer fwd one came after the article about the Prelude. There are better fwd cars now, of course...
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2010
    Fact is, there still aren't any serious FWD race cars in the Big Leagues that I'm aware of anyway.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Was the newer Elan even that good? I don't recall the most favorable reviews.
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    texasestexases Member Posts: 10,716
    You're right, I don't remember anyone being that crazy about the fwd Elan. Wonder how it would have compared to a Prelude...
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2010
    Prelude could hang with the AE86 Corolla of its era, for instance.

    Could the Elan hang with RWD competitors of its day? I doubt it.
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    boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Not sure if it was specifically the double wishbone or the overall package that felt better. Either way I prefer pre 2001 Hondas to the later and newer models.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,184
    IMO, the 90-93 Accord was the best generation, the 92+ Civic was shockingly economical and could be tuned in a gazillion ways, the 92+ Prelude was a pretty nice car...Honda was onto something in the 90s.

    And what do we get now? The Crosstour :sick:
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Fact is, there still aren't any serious FWD race cars in the Big Leagues that I'm aware of anyway.

    I can tell you never raced slot cars. :P
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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,958
    edited March 2010
    Just what are the "Big Leagues" anyway?
    We don't like the Jetta TDI Cup, I take it?
    What about the Speed World Challenge?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Meh
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    oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Front drive slot cars don't work. :sick:
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    "IMO, the 90-93 Accord was the best generation, the 92+ Civic was shockingly economical and could be tuned in a gazillion ways, the 92+ Prelude was a pretty nice car...Honda was onto something in the 90s.

    And what do we get now? The Crosstour"

    My sentiments exactly.

    Looks like my daughter drowned her 99 Camry is the storm this past weekend. We may hand down the famous 00 Accord with 82K on it to her and get something newer for my wife. For the first time I can think of Honda's not a hot item on the list. I'm thinking Mazda or Subaru or, God help me, Hyundai.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    40 years ago people (like ModBob) would tweak 'em to be FWD (a little wiring, and reversing the body). Unbeatable. :)
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    oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    edited March 2010
    Maybe briefly unbeatable 40 years ago in some small circle of racers, but the only competitive
    slotcars now, (and as far as I know, then) are strictly rear wheel drive. :)

    I can't imagine a front driver working without a rear guide, which is generally
    against the rules. :(

    image
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2010
    Rear guides? You mean you can't drift them anymore?

    Ok, here's one.

    What's significant about looms in the car industry?

    I'm looking for at least two names....
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    m6vxm6vx Member Posts: 142
    edited March 2010
    I don't understand your question.

    But it probably has something to do with Henry Ford and the Rouge River.....
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I think there is or was a Toyota Loom Works in Japan. Don't know the other name.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Bankruptcy looms over Chrysler? :P
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    bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Honda was onto something in the 90s.

    Plus the second-gen Legend and Integra, the Beat and the NSX.

    I have a theory that the Japanese auto industry peaked in an era the could be roughly defined as the GHWB administration. All their really good stuff was developed during the Japan Inc. days of the mid-late '80s and came to market during or just after Bush Sr.'s term of office.
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Yeah, Toyota started out as a fabric company and still has looms.

    Not sure on the second but that Henry Ford sounds like a good guess. He was into all sorts of related businesses.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,184
    That's true, that 88-93 or so period was also not bad for Toyota, the over-engineered 92 Camry being a real market-shaker...Acura and Lexus products were nice too.
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,803
    My family purchased a '92 Camry LE to replace the '85 we had owned for about five years at that point. I thought it was very appealing (visually) at the time, plus it performed very well with good handling and adequate power. Surprising, though, was the number of compliments we received on that car. People were really taken by it early on, probably because of its stark departure from the angular offerings that preceded it.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2010
    Before Toyota made cars, they made commercial looms. "The company was founded in 1926 as Toyoda Automatic Loom Works, Ltd. by Sakichi Toyoda, the inventor of a series of manual and machine-powered looms". (Wiki). The car company followed in 1933. They are still making textile looms and they also have a factory in Charlotte, NC.

    The other one is still up for grabs, and it's another car company that got its start making looms (and it's not Ford).

    (very good Lemko).
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    oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Clearly, it has to be the armored car company... Loom-is. :P
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    stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    Studebaker? I know they made lots of other stuff.
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Studebaker was the one company to successfully transition from making horse drawn carriages to horseless ones. Don't think they made looms though.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Head back to silkworm country....
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Some car companies came out of bicycle manufacture as well. If you look closely at very early cars, they are really a combination of both horse carriages and bicycles.
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Would that be the Suzuki Loom Works?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2010
    Yep, that's the other one I'm aware of. Even older than Toyoda, dating back to 1909.
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Kia started off as a bicycle manufacturer. The TV commercial says 1951. I had a yellow Kia ten-speed bicycle I bought when I was ten at a Town and Country store in 1975. It was only $65 which was super-cheap for a ten-speed bike even back then.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think all 2010 Kias should come with bicycles in the trunk. :P
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Hey! VW used to be that! Remember the Jetta Trek?

    Wow. Lemko owned a Kia! :D
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    And how quick we were to judge lemko before we knew the breadth of his automotive tastes! :P :P
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Koreans have arrived, I think that joke may have worked a decade ago but not so much today.

    Replace Kia with BYD or some other Chinese newcomer.
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