Yeah, the Prelude was probably the best handling FWD car, just as the BMW 1 or 3 series is generally considered the best handling RWDer.
To those who might know, does the the Acura RSX handle as well as the Prelude? The Prelude had a double wishbone suspension, while the RSX didn't. Many Honda/Acura fans were very disappointed when this feature was dropped on the Civic and RSX. Was the double wishbone really such a big deal?
It was a big deal to traditional Honda/Acura fans. I've driven both many times and can't feel much of a difference on the street, but it might be a different thing on the track.
The change to Macphersons was done for better packaging under the hood at the cost of performance.
The original MINI COOPER was a pretty ferocious handler in its day...of course these were often race-prepped cars when they were dealing death blows to RWD cars with 4X the engine size.
The original MINI COOPER was a pretty ferocious handler in its day
In fairness, one should compare FWDs in classes by overall weight of cars and perhaps engine displacement. The BMW Mini has better handling/slalom than larger FWD cars because of lighter weight. But, well-engineered FWD cars can do slalom just as well as RWD.
One of my current vehicles is a 2004 Acura TL which has double wishbone suspension front and rear. This is what Edmunds said about it in a road test with regard to topic of “Handling”:
“The TL feels extremely confident on the street, but it took several runs through our slalom to confirm its status as one of the best-handling front-wheel drivers we've sampled. The steering is properly weighted and offers stellar feedback. The engine's broad torque range and progressive throttle response made powering through the slalom easy, and the smart chassis/suspension tuning allowed us to place the car easily between cones. Technically, it may not be as "fun" as a BMW 3 Series, but it obviously goes through the slalom just as rapidly. — Karl Brauer”
Edmunds recorded slalom speed of 67.5 MPH for the 2004 TL. A later test by Edmunds of a 2006 BMW 330i posted a slalom speed of 66.4 MPH. TL had higher speed, better "measured" handling. But, RWD fans will say BMW is more fun to drive than a FWD.
I think at the time, the Prelude was best fwd available in the US. The older Elan was rwd, the newer fwd one came after the article about the Prelude. There are better fwd cars now, of course...
Not sure if it was specifically the double wishbone or the overall package that felt better. Either way I prefer pre 2001 Hondas to the later and newer models.
IMO, the 90-93 Accord was the best generation, the 92+ Civic was shockingly economical and could be tuned in a gazillion ways, the 92+ Prelude was a pretty nice car...Honda was onto something in the 90s.
"IMO, the 90-93 Accord was the best generation, the 92+ Civic was shockingly economical and could be tuned in a gazillion ways, the 92+ Prelude was a pretty nice car...Honda was onto something in the 90s.
And what do we get now? The Crosstour"
My sentiments exactly.
Looks like my daughter drowned her 99 Camry is the storm this past weekend. We may hand down the famous 00 Accord with 82K on it to her and get something newer for my wife. For the first time I can think of Honda's not a hot item on the list. I'm thinking Mazda or Subaru or, God help me, Hyundai.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Maybe briefly unbeatable 40 years ago in some small circle of racers, but the only competitive slotcars now, (and as far as I know, then) are strictly rear wheel drive.
I can't imagine a front driver working without a rear guide, which is generally against the rules.
Plus the second-gen Legend and Integra, the Beat and the NSX.
I have a theory that the Japanese auto industry peaked in an era the could be roughly defined as the GHWB administration. All their really good stuff was developed during the Japan Inc. days of the mid-late '80s and came to market during or just after Bush Sr.'s term of office.
That's true, that 88-93 or so period was also not bad for Toyota, the over-engineered 92 Camry being a real market-shaker...Acura and Lexus products were nice too.
My family purchased a '92 Camry LE to replace the '85 we had owned for about five years at that point. I thought it was very appealing (visually) at the time, plus it performed very well with good handling and adequate power. Surprising, though, was the number of compliments we received on that car. People were really taken by it early on, probably because of its stark departure from the angular offerings that preceded it.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Before Toyota made cars, they made commercial looms. "The company was founded in 1926 as Toyoda Automatic Loom Works, Ltd. by Sakichi Toyoda, the inventor of a series of manual and machine-powered looms". (Wiki). The car company followed in 1933. They are still making textile looms and they also have a factory in Charlotte, NC.
The other one is still up for grabs, and it's another car company that got its start making looms (and it's not Ford).
Some car companies came out of bicycle manufacture as well. If you look closely at very early cars, they are really a combination of both horse carriages and bicycles.
Kia started off as a bicycle manufacturer. The TV commercial says 1951. I had a yellow Kia ten-speed bicycle I bought when I was ten at a Town and Country store in 1975. It was only $65 which was super-cheap for a ten-speed bike even back then.
Comments
To those who might know, does the the Acura RSX handle as well as the Prelude? The Prelude had a double wishbone suspension, while the RSX didn't. Many Honda/Acura fans were very disappointed when this feature was dropped on the Civic and RSX. Was the double wishbone really such a big deal?
The change to Macphersons was done for better packaging under the hood at the cost of performance.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
They have the Outlander Sport and Miev electric for model year 2012, but is that too little too late?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Could you attribute any difference to the double wishbone?
I believe the best handling front-drive car was the Lotus Elan.
In fairness, one should compare FWDs in classes by overall weight of cars and perhaps engine displacement. The BMW Mini has better handling/slalom than larger FWD cars because of lighter weight. But, well-engineered FWD cars can do slalom just as well as RWD.
One of my current vehicles is a 2004 Acura TL which has double wishbone suspension front and rear. This is what Edmunds said about it in a road test with regard to topic of “Handling”:
“The TL feels extremely confident on the street, but it took several runs through our slalom to confirm its status as one of the best-handling front-wheel drivers we've sampled. The steering is properly weighted and offers stellar feedback. The engine's broad torque range and progressive throttle response made powering through the slalom easy, and the smart chassis/suspension tuning allowed us to place the car easily between cones. Technically, it may not be as "fun" as a BMW 3 Series, but it obviously goes through the slalom just as rapidly. — Karl Brauer”
Edmunds recorded slalom speed of 67.5 MPH for the 2004 TL. A later test by Edmunds of a 2006 BMW 330i posted a slalom speed of 66.4 MPH. TL had higher speed, better "measured" handling. But, RWD fans will say BMW is more fun to drive than a FWD.
Could the Elan hang with RWD competitors of its day? I doubt it.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
And what do we get now? The Crosstour :sick:
I can tell you never raced slot cars. :P
We don't like the Jetta TDI Cup, I take it?
What about the Speed World Challenge?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
And what do we get now? The Crosstour"
My sentiments exactly.
Looks like my daughter drowned her 99 Camry is the storm this past weekend. We may hand down the famous 00 Accord with 82K on it to her and get something newer for my wife. For the first time I can think of Honda's not a hot item on the list. I'm thinking Mazda or Subaru or, God help me, Hyundai.
slotcars now, (and as far as I know, then) are strictly rear wheel drive.
I can't imagine a front driver working without a rear guide, which is generally
against the rules.
Ok, here's one.
What's significant about looms in the car industry?
I'm looking for at least two names....
But it probably has something to do with Henry Ford and the Rouge River.....
Plus the second-gen Legend and Integra, the Beat and the NSX.
I have a theory that the Japanese auto industry peaked in an era the could be roughly defined as the GHWB administration. All their really good stuff was developed during the Japan Inc. days of the mid-late '80s and came to market during or just after Bush Sr.'s term of office.
Not sure on the second but that Henry Ford sounds like a good guess. He was into all sorts of related businesses.
The other one is still up for grabs, and it's another car company that got its start making looms (and it's not Ford).
(very good Lemko).
Wow. Lemko owned a Kia!
Replace Kia with BYD or some other Chinese newcomer.