I already forgot exactly how my GTP accelerated past 100mph, but I know that my 300M pulls like crazy past 100mph.
I need to test drive a GTP to remind myself... but will let let me test drive it so fast?
As for hard high speed turns, my GTP used to plow front wheels. I can take the same turns at higher speeds in my 300M. Also 300M allows me to do 4-wheel slides while in a hard turn.
My GTP is completely stock, 2001 coupe. I usually power through turns and drive fast in general, which tends to reduce understeer if done right. The car will of course still understeer once it hits the limit, this just pushes the limit back (wheels turned less for same cornering force). I am very surprised and impressed the 300M can do 4 wheel drifts, given its front weight bias.
Note, I am referring to the s-turns and sweepers often found on interstate, and speeds between 80PHM and 115MPH. However, there is this killer interchange between I287 and the GS Parkway in NY state, which is long and very tight. The fastest I have through the Apex is 75 or 80. I feel a little plow there, but usually because of throttle lift-off, as its very hard to judge how good you "line" is, because the turn is "blind" through the apex.
streetracer!, you from Middlesex County Area? email me.. xavierwrk@hotmail.com. I travel that GSPKWY and I287 interchange alot and I love it... I took the beamer up to 85mph around that turn with no problems. As for the GTP.. it took it at around 60mph. I have to tell you though.. your right... The GTP would blow the beamer away when going from 60 to 110. But that's when I notice it shifts to 4th.. but it still has about 2k rpm left on 3rd for stock computer shifting. I also upgraded my GTP by getting the 3.4" pulley and a k/n cone filter. The car is putting out around 280hp. It ran originally a 15.2 through the 1/4 but it now does 14.9.
one time when it was a bit wet out, I almost did a 180 in my 300M. It is a very non-FWD-like car.
I am trying to decide right now, as mt 300M's lease is ending, whether to get a GTP again or another 300M (or 2002 Altima or 2002 TL-S), I wish I could have them all.
ahh... just buy a ferrari... hehe.. i wish. Never really test drove a 300M but i've raced em.. I have to tell ya.. very quick car, not as fast as mine. *grin*, but very quick!
I live in essex county. I am actually talking about where I-287 meets the GSP way up north in NY State, 287 actually runs east/west at that point. I was just recently playing with a 325ci in this paticular turn, and was able to go through it much faster.
However, I may know know where you are talking about too. You are talking about where the GSP meets with 287 again down south, in middlesex or summerset county ? I think its actually consider 440 for a short distance, right ?
300M - What is the weight distribution ? I have never seen a FWD swap ends, unless you jerk the wheel side to side rapidly. I guess you can still have classical FWD 40/60 distribution, and get RWD like behavior through suspension tuning.
4th Gear GTP - I agree 4th is sort of a let down, especially due to the low rev limiter. I actually think my Regal GS was quicker in 3rd than the GTP, maybe the paticular trans was just better built.
328/330 Acceleration - I drove a Z3 3.0 and didn't think it was particularly quick. I think the 3 series are great cars, just not as blazingly quick, as many suggest. I think with the manual on a twisty tight road it can sustain a faster pace than GTP, but not on highway.
I brought home my 2002 GTP earlier this week and it really rocks! My last car was a Lexus GS400(company car) and I have to say the GTP handles better and is almost as fast for half the money. I am really happy with it. That being said, I have 2 small nitpicks. After driving it for awhile I noticed that the HUD is canted up and to the left. This can be a little maddening as it is not level with the road. My other one is the lumbar support. I swear that after I deinflate it to the minimum it slowly reinflates. I keep thinking my daughter is pressing on the back of the seat! Anybody have experience with either of these problems? The dealer says they are "working as designed".
it was a bit wet and I was taking the exit ramp. Quite a bit faster than suggested speed limit I admit. I meant to send it into the 4-wheel slide like I normally do, especially since the ramp widens from 1 lane into 3 lanes, there is room to play. It was late and there was no traffic so I was not endagering anyone either.
So it started to slide as usual, then either the back-end traction was lost or the front end tripped over a dry patch, but very quickly I found myself at 45 degrees. Then I overcompensated the other way and found myself facing 45 degrees off in the opposite direction. This repeated 5 times or so until I straightened it out.
I know 300M is front biased. So is GTP. But 300M is wider and it does have the performance handling suspension package.
I think in the same situation, my GTP would have simply plowed the front wheels. I don't remember ever sliding in my GTP.
I would guess it is probably the suspension in combination with wet road surfaces. The right suspension could probably make it handle on dry surfaces (or at least evenly dry/wet) like a 50/50 weight distributed car. The wet conditions could then make it put the tail out, by either reducing relative traction at front or back. I would if you applied power if you would have put in back into a drift ?
I did have a similar situation in the GTP. I was coming around a two lane 270 degree exit ramp in the rain, marked for 20MPH, with negative camber. I was doing maybe 50MPH underpower. The car didn't feel like it was gripping, so I let off the glass slowly and smoothly The car came down to about 40MPH, and seemed solid.
I then, like a fool, gunned it through the apex. The car went up about 48, rotated 45 degree, and started sliding. I begin braking and wound up coming to a sliding stop in the shoulder. I actually think the front wheels might have gone out, but after the back wheels had turned in, resulting in oversteer.
You can adjust the HUD, at least on my 2001 coupe. I have a "wheel" right below the steering column on the left.
I would very much be interested in your opinions on the GS400 and GTP. I am actually considering the GS430 as a possible next car, after GTP lease is up.
I am very interested that you think the GTP handles better than Lexus. I
I have never be out cornered by one, so tend to agree with you. However, all the mags and their "skidpad" numbers give the lexus something like a .85G and us a .79G. I actually think the GTP is faster from stoplight and highway showdowns, at least without the lexus brake torquing.
Checking out my brother's 2000 Grand prix GTP, I think the lumbar system is all in the driver's seat. You might try finding the fuse in the fuse box for the seat and pull it. Check your owners manual as it may be a different fuse then his. If the seat dosen't feal like it changes, then you have better proof for your dealer. His HUD is adjustable up & down. If your display is moving it my be a problem with the motor that moves the mirror (it looks like the only moving part). If your display is tilting, then it looks like it would have to be something physically wrong in the unit. Do not remember seeing any other posts about these subjects. Post back with any repair info. Hope you enjoy your GP as much as my brother (when his girlfriend lets him drive).
I drove the 99 GS400 for more than a year. It was REALLY fast, brutally so between 55 and 85 as well as good off of the line. The GTP is fast as well but it does "feel" slower. Quite frankly, I think both cars have more than enough power for your average joe(I got several tickets in the GS400 and learned my lesson). In terms of the handling, I will take the GTP hands down. The GS400 feels big and heavy, it is sportier than the LS400 but not as strong as the GTP. As a matter of fact this is one of my big complaints about it, I don't feel it is a "sports" car but it isn't a great luxury cruiser either(yes I know it is still a really nice car). I have already pulled a couple of turns with my GTP that I don't think the GS400 would have taken. If I were to buy a Lexus I would go for the LS430 personally. The GS400 stock tires are really crappy in my opinion, noisy and worthless in rain or snow. That may be part of the problem. The winter tires I had put on were actually much better and they weren't anything fancy. The GS400 stereo system is actually absolutely astounding as a consolation.
Thanks for the good idea on the fuse, I will have to try that. The HUD display moves up and down okay, it is just the left side is higher than the right. I think I am going to have to find somebody local and check theirs out, maybe it is all in my head. Fortunately my wife hates my car because she did not want me to spend so much. She thought I should have gotten a used Taurus instead! She still doesn't understand the difference. Sigh.
Thanks for the insight. I was actually considering the GS400 because I thought it would possibly be better in the corners and have greater ride comfort. I thought I might have to give up some acceleration, but it seems like GTP may in fact be a little slower but better in the corners.
You may want to have them look at inside of the windshield, in addition to the HUD projector. I would think if it was the alignment of the projector the whole image would be tilted, not just one side. I guess it could have something to do with build up glass causing distortion.
I am embarrassed to ask this question, but I need help. I ordered a Toyota Camry SE (V6 192HP-stop laughing) and will be laying out $26,300.00 plus interest of 6-7% for 60 months on what ever I end up borrowing.
My wife (primary driver) can care less what she drives, so this really my responsibility. Her mother worked for GM and the "family" discount from GM and 0.0 for 60 is very appealing.
Here's what I would like to ask you. I'm 33 and have always driven performance sedans. I currently drive a 2000 Maxima SE and thought the GP w/240 hp was a bargain.
Has this car been proven to be a reliable and decent resale years down the road?
I rather buy American and get the GM discount (about 5% below invoice) and 0.0 financing. The Camry is not to be compared in anyway with the GP performance only the 26K is what's common.
Thanks for any feedback and enjoy your rocket ships!
GP have rather good reputation concerning reliability; however the reputation of Toyota is even better.
If you want to combine the best of the two words, and if you (or rather your wife) are not afraid to drive a "generic-looking" car, you may consider Buick Regal GS.
Buick is as good as Toyota in reliability department. Plus Buicks are very comfortable. "AARP" owners need it.
The Regal GS shares platform and 240hp powertrain with GP GTP. Assembled on another plant, with better reputation. A wolf in the sheep clothing: Looks as a modest, bland, floating retiremobil - but accelerates 0-60 in 6.5-6.7 seconds.
We bought a 2000 GS a year ago. My wife likes it so much, that I drive it very seldom.
However, it is much better to get a first-hand impression. Why not to dest-drive a GS at the nearest Buick dealership?
Yeah, they're both good cars - but in such different ways. The Camry is widely considered to be Toyota's Regal so the Regal comparison is more appropro. I will say this - my non s/c GP GT has no problem pulling away from Camry V6's so if it's performance that pumps your blood, don't be thinking Camry. BTW Even my far-heavier non s/c Bonneville pulls away from Camry V6's and is more poised on the highway as well....
If you want performance in a nice-looking (but perhaps bland) exterior, go for the Regal GS. If you want performance that looks like it and some nice, tight handling as well, go for the GP GTP. If performance isn't the issue and you want nice-looking (but again bland) exterior and the reputation for unassailable reliability, get the Camry. You won't be criticized (here) for any of these three.
Check my profile - I owned a '92 Camry (a good, reliable car) and was a devoted import buyer until our first Pontiac last December. We now own two...
I bought the GP anyway, but my main concern was the side crash results. I don't know what the crash results are for the Buick Regal. Something to consider anyway.
Buick Regal - front impact dr/pass: 4/3 stars; side impact: 3/3 GP - front impact dr/pass: 4/4; side impact fr/rear: 2/3 Olds Intrigue - no front test; side impact fr/rear: 3/1 Toyota Camry - front impact dr/pass: 4/5 stars; side impact: 3/3 Nissan Maxima - front impact dr/pass: 4/4 stars; side impact: 4/4
Not much to choose from here - but with kids in the back seat, the Olds was an easy no-choice for me.
Along with above mentioned comparisons, don't neglect to check out Impala LS as well. The 3.8L 200 hp on regular gas vs premium required on Regal GS and GP GTP may influence your thinking and you may find the car an attractive alternative. Styling is controversial to some but the car is an excellent alternative.
Best wishes in your car-buying process. Keep us informed of your progress.
Although I've been lusting for an Intrigue since I bought an Alero, I was also turned off by it's poor side impact rating. Like you, I have kids who ride in that rear seat too.
Actually, I want my kids to ride in 1st class as well. They are my children, they don't deserve to be cramped in a small car rear seat! :^) Thus, the Bonneville that replaced the Alero was a no-brainer. Especially with its decent crash performance: 4/5 and 4/4. ;^)
small correction: the Bonneville has excellent crash protection - it also gets 'best pick' among IIHS offset impact tests or large cars. Add in its large size and heavy weight, front side air bags, ABS, 4 wheel disc brakes, traction control, good driver's position and tight handling, and you've got a darned safe package.
The W bodies tend to be a notch below but they are heavy vehicles too and heavier vehicles do tend to fare better in crashes. If you want to feel better about your GP, check out the IIHS's injury loss rating. This is real-world data. The GP rates a "better than average" injury loss rating of 74 compared with the Camry's average 102 and the Maxima's 94.
tkpken's right: the Impala LS is a good choice too and its injury loss rating is 73.
Get a load of where the Buick Regal and Olds Intrigue are as well.
small correction: the Bonneville has excellent crash protection - it also gets 'best pick' among IIHS offset impact tests or large cars. Add in its large size and heavy weight, front side air bags, ABS, 4 wheel disc brakes, traction control, good driver's position and tight handling, and you've got a darned safe package.
The W bodies tend to be a notch below but they are heavy vehicles too and heavier vehicles do tend to fare better in crashes. If you want to feel better about your GP, check out the IIHS's injury loss rating. This is real-world data. The GP rates a "better than average" injury loss rating of 74 compared with the Camry's average 102 and the Maxima's 94.
tkpken's right: the Impala LS is a good choice too and its injury loss rating is 73.
Get a load of where the Buick Regal and Olds Intrigue are as well.
If my memory serves correctly, the Impala has a 5 star front collision and 4 star side collision. They had the best crash results of the cars that I looked at. (I didn't look into the Bonnevilles because right off the bat they were out of my price range.)
If I had kids riding in the car, I wouldn't even consider the GP. I rarely have another passenger in the car at all. Even so, I don't want to get hurt in a car accident either! I doubt I'll buy another car with these crash results.
For years I've been wanting a Grand Prix so I imagine when I buy my next car, it will be out of my system.
I certainly don't worry about my kids in the back seat of the GP. Okay, our Bonneville is our primary kid mover so their exposure is limited. Furthermore, side impact crashes are mostly an urban phenomenon and about 90% of our kid-carrying driving is outside urban areas.
I believe that both the NHTSA and IIHS tests are important but they are not the final word on safety. Accident avoidance features and characteristics are far more important - 'tis far better to avoid an accident than to have to survive having one. The GP is large and heavy but yet also a surprisingly agile and stable car. Comfortable driver position, good sightlines, excellent night-time visibility (the headlights are very good), DRL's, ABS and traction control make a very safe package. It could use side impact bags (on both sides please) and beefed up steel in the B pillar and in lateral door beams but it is quite safe. The injury loss rating in the earlier link speaks to that.
Further, it's important to understand how crash test ratings are obtained. The NHTSA front impact and IIHS offset tests are both crashes into a rigid barrier (somewhat deformable in the IIHS test) - essentially duplicating hitting another Grand Prix at the same speed. Front crash results are therefore only comparable against similarly sized and weighted vehicles. In other words, the 4 star and 3346 lb. Grand Prix would likely do better in a head-on collision with a 5 star 2500 lb. Honda Civic (this is of course speculative but I would bet on the heavier vehicle in all but the most extreme cases). And you know that a lot of kids are being buckled into Civics.
The side impact test is different though - it is comparable between all vehicles - same barrier, same speed. That the GP does (relatively) poorly is a problem but the poor rating is for the driver's seat - not the rear. The rear seat side impact rating (where the kids sit) is a respectable 3 stars - as good as or better than the ratings for the Camry, Taurus/Sable, Altima, Intrepid/Concorde/LHS, 626, Neon, Corolla, and several others.
That being said, 3 stars is my personal minimum tolerance for rear side impact ratings - and It was this that steered me away from the Intrigue (which had been our initial favourite).
I wasn't trying to imply that you were putting your kids in an unsafe car. Sorry if it came across like that. I was thinking more in terms of kids being old enough to sit in the front seat.
When you mention side impacts being mostly urban, is that due to all the intersections? I don't live in a big city but I do live where there's lots of intersections.
Oh don't worry - I didn't take it that way at all. I'm neither sensitive nor defensive - at least not about cars and which ones I choose. You can probably tell that car safety is a bit of an obsession of mine.
Yeah, t-bonings are more common in urban traffic because (a) volume is greater; and (b) there are more intersections. However, I witness a fatal t-boning at a remote rural intersection some years back - probably the only 2 cars that went through that intersection all week. So, it does happen...
Anyway, rest assured that your GP is a nice, safe car. There may be ones that survive labratory crash tests better but I wouldn't rush out and buy another life insurance policy just yet....
I'm usually pretty cautious when approaching intersections so that helps some.
On another note, I've only noticed 2 or 3 Dark Bronzemist GP's since I bought my car but all of a sudden, I've seen quite a number of them around town. I guess my car's becoming more run of the mill. I wish they'd cancel the color so there won't be even more of them running around!
One of the things that bothers me these days is that if you or your kids are riding along and are side impacted - there is a very high probability that the vehicle smashing into you is going to be something on the order of an Expedition or pick-up or Suburban. there's just so many of them out there! I sure would not want to be in a Civic when that happens. Not sure I even want to be in the Bonneville.
This is one reason I bought a Suburban for the family vehicle (many other reasons as well including towing). If you can't beat em - join em.
This is going to sound like a really dumb question but the Edmunds review talks about a "performance shift option" for the GTP. I don't see such a thing on my 2002 GTP and there isn't anything in the manual. Am I missing something or was it not on the 2002's? I can't imagine it being a separate option. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!
What is the difference between the GTP and the GTX? Are there different options on the GTX that are not on the GTP? The GTX's have a limited production do they not?
GM dropped the performance shift mode in 2001. The same with Regal GS.
2000 year supercharged GP/Regal had it. A button on a side of shift lever, a light on instrument panel, and a second program for the electronicall-controlled transmission, or rather a second shift table burned into ROM.
We have a 2000 GS for a year. At first, while not accustomed to the car, I could not feel the difference. Now I feel it: in performance mode the car downshifts faster. Good thing when passing. However, it is better not to use it when starting from traffic lights - too easy to spin wheels even on dry pavement.
The mode was seldom used, though.
My wife is the primary driver, and drives the car practically every day. Never used the button though. Hit it accidently recently, and could not understand what the dashboard signal means.
She was leaving to drive our son to school in the morning. Awoke me and summoned to the parking lot, to look and explain if it is safe to drive with the strange light.
Proabably, dealers often got the same questions. The feature requred too much service. Cannot understand othewise, why it was dropped.
If I'm behind the wheel you're safe!! Can't speak for everyone else though!
Of course my my kids might be quick to remind me of a certain Subaru that was parked in a blind spot at a local mall as I backed up once..... oh well - at least it wasn't a Pontiac! Lesson learned - the back can hold lots of stuff - but that stuff can block views too.
I'm sure you're a good driver. I backed into a car once at the Mall about 10 years ago and it was just my luck that it was a Mercedes Sports Coupe! That was the first fender bender that I had since I was 17--and the most expensive!
Impala offers full 5 star frontal rating and 4 stars front and rear protection. The side rating goes up to 5 stars if the driver's side is equipped with a driver side airbag.
of cars, especially similuar cars, strange things can be found.
Let us compare Impala, Intrigue, Regal, and GP.
Impala and Intrigue are involved in accident abiut equally often, or rather seldom. Respectively, 72% and 73% as often as an average car. You can see this from comprehensible insurance damage data. Impala have superior crash rating in goverment tests, while Intrigue have a barely acceptable one. However, in real life, judging from the injury insurance statistics, Intrigue is substantially less dangerous. 58% vs. 72%.
GP is involved in accidents noticeable more often than Impala, 82% vs. 72%, and is somewhat less crash-proof. However, the risk of injury for this pair of cars is about equal: 74% and 73%.
Regal is involved in accidents less often than other W-body cars, 68%. The real-life injuries also are low, 57%. Not so different, though, from more accident-prone Intrigue, 58%.
And, of course, concerning real-life safety no car can even approach Buick LeSabre. Nobody would like to steal it either. Neither for enjoyment, nor for parts...
Notice also the Volvo safety ratings. Not even close to its reputation in this department.
Thanks for the answer, I thought it was something like that. To tell you the truth, I am not sure I need any more performance, tough enough to stay out of trouble now!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it reflect reality more faithfully to say that the GP, which is 82% as likely as the average to get involved in an accident, is thus 90% (74% / 82%) as likely as the average to cause injury in an accident? Therefore, the Impala, 99%, the Regal, 84%, the Intrigue, 79%. Is this reasoning meaningful?
Of course, the number are not exact, just the best estimation we can make using the data.
I am not sure what data are reported in the insurance statistics: the number of claims, or insurance payment amount? The payment depends on how expensive are parts and/or how much labor the repairs needs.
Comprehensive includes not only accidents, but less usual damages, like hail etc. Much more important, the injury damages are not limited to occupants of the car, but also involve occupants of the other car(s) involved in collision, plus pedestrians, byciclists, etc.
Comments
I am not sure if it removes rev limiter at 4K rpm. But I think that the rev limiter only kicks in when the car is in Park, not in 3rd gear.
I need to test drive a GTP to remind myself... but will let let me test drive it so fast?
As for hard high speed turns, my GTP used to plow front wheels. I can take the same turns at higher speeds in my 300M. Also 300M allows me to do 4-wheel slides while in a hard turn.
Is your GTP stock?
Note, I am referring to the s-turns and sweepers often found on interstate, and speeds between 80PHM and 115MPH. However, there is this killer interchange between I287 and the GS Parkway in NY state, which is long and very tight. The fastest I have through the Apex is 75 or 80. I feel a little plow there, but usually because of throttle lift-off, as its very hard to judge how good you "line" is, because the turn is "blind" through the apex.
I am trying to decide right now, as mt 300M's lease is ending, whether to get a GTP again or another 300M (or 2002 Altima or 2002 TL-S), I wish I could have them all.
However, I may know know where you are talking about too. You are talking about where the GSP meets with 287 again down south, in middlesex or summerset county ? I think its actually consider 440 for a short distance, right ?
4th Gear GTP - I agree 4th is sort of a let down, especially due to the low rev limiter. I actually think my Regal GS was quicker in 3rd than the GTP, maybe the paticular trans was just better built.
328/330 Acceleration - I drove a Z3 3.0 and didn't think it was particularly quick. I think the 3 series are great cars, just not as blazingly quick, as many suggest. I think with the manual on a twisty tight road it can sustain a faster pace than GTP, but not on highway.
So it started to slide as usual, then either the back-end traction was lost or the front end tripped over a dry patch, but very quickly I found myself at 45 degrees. Then I overcompensated the other way and found myself facing 45 degrees off in the opposite direction. This repeated 5 times or so until I straightened it out.
I know 300M is front biased. So is GTP. But 300M is wider and it does have the performance handling suspension package.
I think in the same situation, my GTP would have simply plowed the front wheels. I don't remember ever sliding in my GTP.
I did have a similar situation in the GTP. I was coming around a two lane 270 degree exit ramp in the rain, marked for 20MPH, with negative camber. I was doing maybe 50MPH underpower. The car didn't feel like it was gripping, so I let off the glass slowly and smoothly The car came down to about 40MPH, and seemed solid.
I then, like a fool, gunned it through the apex. The car went up about 48, rotated 45 degree, and started sliding. I begin braking and wound up coming to a sliding stop in the shoulder. I actually think the front wheels might have gone out, but after the back wheels had turned in, resulting in oversteer.
I would very much be interested in your opinions on the GS400 and GTP. I am actually considering the GS430 as a possible next car, after GTP lease is up.
I am very interested that you think the GTP handles better than Lexus. I
I have never be out cornered by one, so tend to agree with you. However, all the mags and their "skidpad" numbers give the lexus something like a .85G and us a .79G. I actually think the GTP is faster from stoplight and highway showdowns, at least without the lexus brake torquing.
His HUD is adjustable up & down. If your display is moving it my be a problem with the motor that moves the mirror (it looks like the only moving part). If your display is tilting, then it looks like it would have to be something physically wrong in the unit.
Do not remember seeing any other posts about these subjects. Post back with any repair info. Hope you enjoy your GP as much as my brother (when his girlfriend lets him drive).
My wife (primary driver) can care less what she drives, so this really my responsibility. Her mother worked for GM and the "family" discount from GM and 0.0 for 60 is very appealing.
Here's what I would like to ask you. I'm 33 and have always driven performance sedans. I currently drive a 2000 Maxima SE and thought the GP w/240 hp was a bargain.
Has this car been proven to be a reliable and decent resale years down the road?
I rather buy American and get the GM discount (about 5% below invoice) and 0.0 financing. The Camry is not to be compared in anyway with the GP performance only the 26K is what's common.
Thanks for any feedback and enjoy your rocket ships!
If you want to combine the best of the two words, and if you (or rather your wife) are not afraid to drive a "generic-looking" car, you may consider Buick Regal GS.
Buick is as good as Toyota in reliability department. Plus Buicks are very comfortable. "AARP" owners need it.
The Regal GS shares platform and 240hp powertrain with GP GTP. Assembled on another plant, with better reputation. A wolf in the sheep clothing: Looks as a modest, bland, floating retiremobil - but accelerates 0-60 in 6.5-6.7 seconds.
We bought a 2000 GS a year ago. My wife likes it so much, that I drive it very seldom.
However, it is much better to get a first-hand impression. Why not to dest-drive a GS at the nearest Buick dealership?
If you want performance in a nice-looking (but perhaps bland) exterior, go for the Regal GS. If you want performance that looks like it and some nice, tight handling as well, go for the GP GTP. If performance isn't the issue and you want nice-looking (but again bland) exterior and the reputation for unassailable reliability, get the Camry. You won't be criticized (here) for any of these three.
Check my profile - I owned a '92 Camry (a good, reliable car) and was a devoted import buyer until our first Pontiac last December. We now own two...
GP - front impact dr/pass: 4/4; side impact fr/rear: 2/3
Olds Intrigue - no front test; side impact fr/rear: 3/1
Toyota Camry - front impact dr/pass: 4/5 stars; side impact: 3/3
Nissan Maxima - front impact dr/pass: 4/4 stars; side impact: 4/4
Not much to choose from here - but with kids in the back seat, the Olds was an easy no-choice for me.
Best wishes in your car-buying process. Keep us informed of your progress.
Ken
Actually, I want my kids to ride in 1st class as well. They are my children, they don't deserve to be cramped in a small car rear seat!
:^)Thus, the Bonneville that replaced the Alero was a no-brainer. Especially with its decent crash performance: 4/5 and 4/4.;^)The W bodies tend to be a notch below but they are heavy vehicles too and heavier vehicles do tend to fare better in crashes. If you want to feel better about your GP, check out the IIHS's injury loss rating. This is real-world data. The GP rates a "better than average" injury loss rating of 74 compared with the Camry's average 102 and the Maxima's 94.
tkpken's right: the Impala LS is a good choice too and its injury loss rating is 73.
Get a load of where the Buick Regal and Olds Intrigue are as well.
Size matters after all.
The W bodies tend to be a notch below but they are heavy vehicles too and heavier vehicles do tend to fare better in crashes. If you want to feel better about your GP, check out the IIHS's injury loss rating. This is real-world data. The GP rates a "better than average" injury loss rating of 74 compared with the Camry's average 102 and the Maxima's 94.
tkpken's right: the Impala LS is a good choice too and its injury loss rating is 73.
Get a load of where the Buick Regal and Olds Intrigue are as well.
Size matters after all.
If I had kids riding in the car, I wouldn't even consider the GP. I rarely have another passenger in the car at all. Even so, I don't want to get hurt in a car accident either! I doubt I'll buy another car with these crash results.
For years I've been wanting a Grand Prix so I imagine when I buy my next car, it will be out of my system.
I believe that both the NHTSA and IIHS tests are important but they are not the final word on safety. Accident avoidance features and characteristics are far more important - 'tis far better to avoid an accident than to have to survive having one. The GP is large and heavy but yet also a surprisingly agile and stable car. Comfortable driver position, good sightlines, excellent night-time visibility (the headlights are very good), DRL's, ABS and traction control make a very safe package. It could use side impact bags (on both sides please) and beefed up steel in the B pillar and in lateral door beams but it is quite safe. The injury loss rating in the earlier link speaks to that.
Further, it's important to understand how crash test ratings are obtained. The NHTSA front impact and IIHS offset tests are both crashes into a rigid barrier (somewhat deformable in the IIHS test) - essentially duplicating hitting another Grand Prix at the same speed. Front crash results are therefore only comparable against similarly sized and weighted vehicles. In other words, the 4 star and 3346 lb. Grand Prix would likely do better in a head-on collision with a 5 star 2500 lb. Honda Civic (this is of course speculative but I would bet on the heavier vehicle in all but the most extreme cases). And you know that a lot of kids are being buckled into Civics.
The side impact test is different though - it is comparable between all vehicles - same barrier, same speed. That the GP does (relatively) poorly is a problem but the poor rating is for the driver's seat - not the rear. The rear seat side impact rating (where the kids sit) is a respectable 3 stars - as good as or better than the ratings for the Camry, Taurus/Sable, Altima, Intrepid/Concorde/LHS, 626, Neon, Corolla, and several others.
That being said, 3 stars is my personal minimum tolerance for rear side impact ratings - and It was this that steered me away from the Intrigue (which had been our initial favourite).
Sorry for the long post.
Looks as the very safe car is Buick LeSabre. And nobody want to steal it, either :-)
My sister is considering replacing her 91 Olds 88. She likes safety. Will recommend her LeSabre.
When you mention side impacts being mostly urban, is that due to all the intersections? I don't live in a big city but I do live where there's lots of intersections.
Yeah, t-bonings are more common in urban traffic because (a) volume is greater; and (b) there are more intersections. However, I witness a fatal t-boning at a remote rural intersection some years back - probably the only 2 cars that went through that intersection all week. So, it does happen...
Anyway, rest assured that your GP is a nice, safe car. There may be ones that survive labratory crash tests better but I wouldn't rush out and buy another life insurance policy just yet....
On another note, I've only noticed 2 or 3 Dark Bronzemist GP's since I bought my car but all of a sudden, I've seen quite a number of them around town. I guess my car's becoming more run of the mill. I wish they'd cancel the color so there won't be even more of them running around!
This is one reason I bought a Suburban for the family vehicle (many other reasons as well including towing). If you can't beat em - join em.
Ken
Stacy
Kdstan
2000 year supercharged GP/Regal had it. A button on a side of shift lever, a light on instrument panel, and a second program for the electronicall-controlled transmission, or rather a second shift table burned into ROM.
We have a 2000 GS for a year. At first, while not accustomed to the car, I could not feel the difference. Now I feel it: in performance mode the car downshifts faster. Good thing when passing. However, it is better not to use it when starting from traffic lights - too easy to spin wheels even on dry pavement.
The mode was seldom used, though.
My wife is the primary driver, and drives the car practically every day. Never used the button though. Hit it accidently recently, and could not understand what the dashboard signal means.
She was leaving to drive our son to school in the morning. Awoke me and summoned to the parking lot, to look and explain if it is safe to drive with the strange light.
Proabably, dealers often got the same questions. The feature requred too much service. Cannot understand othewise, why it was dropped.
Of course my my kids might be quick to remind me of a certain Subaru that was parked in a blind spot at a local mall as I backed up once..... oh well - at least it wasn't a Pontiac! Lesson learned - the back can hold lots of stuff - but that stuff can block views too.
Enjoy that nice Grand Prix!
Ken
Safest W body sedan.
Let us compare Impala, Intrigue, Regal, and GP.
Impala and Intrigue are involved in accident abiut equally often, or rather seldom. Respectively, 72% and 73% as often as an average car. You can see this from comprehensible insurance damage data. Impala have superior crash rating in goverment tests, while Intrigue have a barely acceptable one. However, in real life, judging from the injury insurance statistics, Intrigue is substantially less dangerous. 58% vs. 72%.
GP is involved in accidents noticeable more often than Impala, 82% vs. 72%, and is somewhat less crash-proof. However, the risk of injury for this pair of cars is about equal: 74% and 73%.
Regal is involved in accidents less often than other W-body cars, 68%. The real-life injuries also are low, 57%. Not so different, though, from more accident-prone Intrigue, 58%.
And, of course, concerning real-life safety no car can even approach Buick LeSabre. Nobody would like to steal it either. Neither for enjoyment, nor for parts...
Notice also the Volvo safety ratings. Not even close to its reputation in this department.
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl_4dr.htm
Of course, the number are not exact, just the best estimation we can make using the data.
I am not sure what data are reported in the insurance statistics: the number of claims, or insurance payment amount? The payment depends on how expensive are parts and/or how much labor the repairs needs.
Comprehensive includes not only accidents, but less usual damages, like hail etc. Much more important, the injury damages are not limited to occupants of the car, but also involve occupants of the other car(s) involved in collision, plus pedestrians, byciclists, etc.