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Audi A6



  • fantomfantom Posts: 211
    ...and will still look fine after 25,000 miles. They are the most quiet of the three you mention, are worth the added bucks IMO, are great wet and dry traction, stick like glue, very firm sidewalls, and will preform much better than your current Conti's.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,564
    On my (less worthy) vehicle, these tires really made a difference. Quiet, good grip without squealing on sharp turns, and what I'm told will be pretty good life/treadwear.

    The price is steep, but sometimes one gets what one pays for. Definitely true in this case.
  • Lease on my 2000 2.7T is going to expire in a few months and I was shopping other cars although I have enjoyed my Audi and my dealer has been terrific. The BMW salesman claims that unless I go to "snow country" a lot the electronics in the bimmer would be more than adequate for bad weather and quattro is unnecessary. I'll probably get another 2.7T but I am curious how much of an advantage quattro is . The Audi is larger with much more trunk room. Haven't driven it yet but I've owned a lot of BMW's and I'm sure the handling is crisper. Audi should be quicker.
  • I would suggest waiting until a real bad snow day hits and testing each car, and see for yourself how they each do!

    My own opinion is that if you encounter snow and ice regularly, then the A6 will provide better traction and safety. It has the same or better electronics that the BMW has, plus the added benefit of two extra wheels providing traction. If you only experience poor winter driving days fairly infrequently, you could certainly get by with just RWD plus traction control, particularly if you add good winter tires all around.

    My last four vehicles have all had AWD, which I have come to really appreciate here in Minnesota. There is a lot less stress driving on ice and in snowstorms, and I get a kick out of pulling away from people who are spinning their tires or sliding around. For my situation, in fact, I don't think I will again buy a car without AWD. For added security and less stress, I also have winter tires for each of our vehicles (an allroad and an A4, each with Quattro. Before these I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee and a Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX). That said, if I did happen to live in a more moderate climate, I certainly would be open to buying a RWD BMW, because as you said the handling and steering is a bit crisper - as long as you're on dry pavement.
  • You will also need to put this into consideration. This is a BMW salesman trying to sell you a BMW. Granted, from my own limited experience, if the tires are equal. The BMW is more fun to drive when the road is dry. But, unless you and your family stays home when it rains/snow, then the benefit of an AWD car is very tempting.

    For fun, next time you have a major rain/thunder storm or even modest snow in your area. Go to the BMW salesman and get the car out to an empty parking lot and see how well it sticks to the road. Like others on this forum, I don't think I can ever spend money on another car that's not AWD.

    But then, its your money, spend on whatever your heart desires.
  • From personal experience, like evryone else states, Michelins are pricey but well worth the $$$$. To get the best balance on your existing tires, try these steps:
    1. Turn each tire 180 degrees on the wheel.
    2. Install on the car using no air wrenches! Hand torque each bolt to ensure that the wheel is not "torqued". Tough to find a place that will work with you in this manner but well worth it.

    If you do buy the Michelins, My experience over the years has shown that a Michelin tire RARELY needs more than one ounce per side.
    Good Luck!!
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Yes, but it seems to be occurring less frequently. I think I noted in my former post that that it only occurs during a heating cycle of the climate control. We're well into colder weather, and still it seems to be occurring less often. I don't think I'm going to have it worked on until near the warranty expiration. It doesn't bother me enough, seems to going away/reducing and I don't want to have the dash torn apart.

    I've got between 30K & 5K on my Conti's. (Two replaced because of flats.) I plan on replacing them all in about 5K with Pilot A/S. I've generally had good luck with Michelin. Michelin makes the roundest tire, which should help eliminate or minimize your shimmy. I've got it too between 65-75, but it's transient. It may not be the balance. This is a problem that has occurred on some A6 quattro's with ALL the different engines. Causes have been reported to be everything from the tranny to lug bolt torque. I got rid of it for 5K, then it came back slightly between 45-55. After my last 10K service, it was back between 65-75. I'd rather not have it at all, but if they can't get rid of it, I'd rather have it between 45-55. But the intensity of this too seems to be decreasing. Could the two tires added after flats caused the problem? I'm doing my next 10K next week, and will try to get it resolved again.
  • I'm not getting much heat at all out of my heater. Any ideas what could be the problem? Also, when I turn up the volume on my stereo, I get really bad crackling and popping and my 10 cd disk changer isn't getting any power at all. Any hints? Dealer can't see it for a month and it is getting cold! :)
  • Thanks for all the input! I could not see spending the $$$ for the Michelins. I found a local dealer who was willing to match Tirerack's price on the Dunlop A2's ($96/tire, which would have been tire + shipping from Tirerack). He was not able to do the same for the Michelins or the Bridgestones. The Dunlops have a good reputation (if it means anything Consumer Reports voted it the best tire for the money) and worst case scenario they would still be an improvement over the Continentals. Truth be told, had I not had the problem with the Contis I would have probably been happy with them. 95% of the driving I do on a daily basis is highway driving at 65-70mph, and the tires were driving me up a wall. The clincher is that this dealer has the Hunter 9700, and installation included lifetime free rotation, and balancing with this machine. This dealer used to carry Contis but had too many problems with them (similar to my experience and also tread separation). Before they mounted the Dunlops they tried rectifying the Contis but one of the 4 tires could not be balanced no matter what they did. I know the Michelins are probably better but for 1/2 the price I could not turn down this deal. Initial impression driving with the Dunlops is very positive. Even at 30mph there is a significant difference, and at highway speeds the difference is incredible. And these tires are much quieter than the Contis. Very acceptable! The passenger seatback no longer vibrates at highway speeds. The Hunter machine makes a big difference. Two of the Dunlops would have balanced with a conventional machine but initially flunked with the Hunter.
    By the way, Timcar, I have read that the Quattro is very sensitive to having tires of unequal wear, even if you replace a pair at a time (of course, both running in the front or in the rear). Also, my Audi dealer says it is not difficult to get to the A/C fan. Mine has remained quiet (knock on wood!).
    I will report on the tires again in a few thousand miles.
  • This is not my full report on the new Audi. It is, rather, a "finally" -- as in I picked it up last Friday night and then Sunday went to California for three days on biz. I have put about 230 miles on the car thus far and I love it.

    specs: 2003 6spd manual 2.7T allroad
    all available options
    burgundy red pearl
    ecru "cricket" leather
    full paint (done here, not in Germany)
    swapped tires right off the truck -- put on Michelen Pilot A/S 245 x 50 x 17's
    kept the factory tires for a rainy day

    As you may remember, most recent A6 was a 2001 4.2 w/sport package.

    New car: seems to have given up nothing in quickness, but I haven't red lined it.
    The allroad is significantly quieter than the 4.2 -- less road and wind noise, very little engine sound (the A6 4.2 is better -- it growls so pleasingly, the allroad is almost silent). The allroad handles very well, but the 4.2 is better in this area (but this was not unexpected).

    The factory phone and On*star are very well integrated, the cd changer built into the dash is perfect.

    Overall I like the allroad slightly better than the outgoing A6 -- but I must attribute this almost entirely to the transmission -- I doubt I would rate the allroad higher than the 4.2 A6 if the allroad had the 2.7T+tiptronic. I test drove both and found the auto allroad less quick and somewhat less responsive than the 4.2 (W/TIP) and much less responsive than the 6spd allroad.

    I can't comment on the tires since I literally didn't even drive the new car with the factory original tires -- I do think the Pilot A/S's are excellent, but this is not a comparison with the OEM's.

    The full paint option makes the car look like an S6 avant after mild steroids -- but I have no delusions that this IS an S6.

    After only 250 total miles on the thing, it is too late to say if I think it really needs to be chipped, which was my plan so many months ago. It is so close to the capabilities of the A6 4.2 sedan in straight line acceleration, I may change my mind. See me in 3,000 miles or so. . .

    The brakes work great -- best brakes I can remember in an Audi since 1995 (on my '95 S6).

    Tyre pressure monitoring -- pretty nice knowing its there, too.

    All in all, so far, the swiss (or German) army knife of cars.
  • Congrats on your purchase, and thanks for sharing your early impressions. I just passed 27,000 on mine, and still love driving it every time I get in. Would have liked the 6 speed, but local traffic dictated otherwise...I wish you many miles of happy motoring.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,297
    I'm tempted to say almost anything is better than
    OEM Contis but I'll just say they wear quickly and offer little steering response. I went with Dunlop A2s which I think will go at least 30-35k.
    and offer good steering response etc in wet, dry and light snow (A4Q Avant2.8). I think there as good as anything that offers reasonable wear.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • aggie76aggie76 Posts: 266
    I spent this a.m. driving the 2.7T and the 4.2 here at my local dealer and noticed something that I'd like to get a few opinions on. I'm a good-size guy (6'2" and 250) and when seated all the way back, which I need, I found my right knee hitting the side of the console somewhat annoyingly.

    More of an issue was that I only had a narrow aisle for my right foot between the brake and gas pedals. What having to panic stop, just to test nose dive, I hit the brake pedal when lifting my foot off and moving it to the left to apply the brake. Seems a little tight in there, only about 1/2" clearance between my 11EE foot and the brake when I rested my foot on the gas.

    Has anyone else noticed this or am I just too darn big for this vehicle to fit me comfortably??? I really like everything about it, especially the quattro as it looks more like I am headed north to live in next couple of months. I've got no trouble in my '98 GS300 and have recently driven several other makes without noticing this issue.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I too noticed that driving the A6 4.2. Seems as though Audi's pedals are still a little close.

  • I too have noticed that the brake and gas pedal on the 2.7T are pretty close, depending on what kind of shoe I wear.

    The issue of the wide console mixing with the driver's right knee is also a potential issue.

    These interior "issues" probably bothered me more when I first started driving the Audi. Now I just look at it as a "quirk" of driving a German car. I think most of the Audi's do not have as "roomy" an interior as the Japanese or American vehicles.

    I now view it as driving a "sports" vehicle with a "tighter" interior with more driving control and handling. Getting into the 2.7T does "feel" like entering a sports car.

    Interestingly enough,the Audi has more REAR space for hauling than any other sedan I have seen! It is amazing what I can put in the back of this vehicle! Audi makes better use of this space than just about anybody, considering the car is just a 4-door sedan!
  • aggie76aggie76 Posts: 266
    I certainly do like all the other aspects of the A6 and will just have to spend more time in it to see if I can "live" with the intrusion. Maybe I'll take a variety of my shoes into the dealer and play around a little.

    Excited about tonight, dealer has the R8 on the showroom floor and my son & I are going in for a close look. He's 12 and wanted to know if we could drive it - don't I wish!
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Thanks to Arturo for the heads-up on the fan and balance issues.

    And CONGRATS to Mark on his new customized allroad. I had one (though a Tip) as a loaner, and liked it a lot.

    Space: I'm about four inches shorter than you Bob, but about as wide, and wear an 11E. I agree with your comments concerning pedal placement, and initially did manage to get my foot on the gas and brake at the same time. But I haven't done that in a long time, so I guess I'm used to it.

    Since I have very short arms and legs, I probably don't have some of the fit issues, but do have others. I find the driving position I've arrived at EXTREMELY comfortable. My prior two cars were a Lexus and a Legend, both of which were very comfortable cars. But the seats in my 2.7T are the MOST comfortable I've ever sat in during long trips.

    When I first looked at the A6, I was impressed with how UNcomfortable the seats were compared to my then Lexus. But as I continued to look, I fiddled with the controls, and like magic, found a perfect seating position for me. From this experience I came to realize that the comfort of the seats in the A6 is extremely dependent on the adjustment. Moving the seats very slightly can convert them from torture to comfort. These are unlike any other I've encountered. All this is to suggest you might want to play around with seats for awhile at the dealer on a floor demo, before you make any judgements.
  • I am the proud owner of a 2002 Audi A6 3.0Q; can someone direct me to a simple diagram regarding the function of the lumbar support buttons? I have looked in the manual and on the web-site and honestly do not understand how the buttons work. Thanks
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    The control is roughly square and is located behind that for the seat cushion, which is a horizontal bar, or lozenge. The lumbar support control switch can be moved in four directions: up, down, forward and to the rear. There are four depressions in the switch on which to place your finger corresponding to each direction. Rocking the switch forward inflates the lumbar support. Rocking it backward deflates it. Rocking it up moves the lumbar support up the seat back. And rocking it down moves the support down the seat back. Hope this might be helpful.

    Enjoy your beautiful car!
  • I'm back after 10 days in my new 2002 A6 Avant and I am one very happy camper. It is actually hard getting used to such a wonderful car. Last week we had some stormy weather in Northern California so I actually locked it in the under ground garage at work for 3 days so it would be safe. Ridiculous, I know.

    Just one thing:

    I've noticed a few comments on the boards about a/c noise but was wondering if I can get some more feedback on prior experience or how to fix it before I go back for round two with the service department.

    Anyway, I'm loving almost everything about this car except for the a/c NOISE - it sounds like the car is possessed. At times it actually interferes with my stereo system sound. It starts as soon as the air/heat gets going and can keep making noise even when I turn off the a/c system and/or the car. The noise has been present since I drove the car off the lot. I had to get one of the headrest leather attachments fixed so I also had the dealer listen to it and they told me they would listen to other a6 avant's to compare and get back to me. They have just given me the verdict that it is normal which I am having trouble understanding.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

  • aggie76aggie76 Posts: 266
    I'm relocating to NW Illinois and have almost finalized my decision to go with '03 A6 2.7T to replace my GS300 mainly for quattro. Need to know if anyone has any very positive or negative experiences with the two dealers up in that neck of the woods, both sales & service experiences. I got a little spoiled with quality of my GS over the last 4 plus years and don't want to fight with poor dealer service. Lujack's in Davenport, IA or Napleton's in Rockford, IL are the two closest to where I'll be living.

    Any and all comments welcome either here or direct to my e-mail, [email protected]
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Kristen, could you offer a little more detail about the nature and extent of the AC noise you're experiencing?

    But, from what you said so far, it doesn't sound normal to me. The fan noise in the A6 is a little louder than in my previous Lexus, but certainly not objectionable, and rarely noticeable. Only when the fan is blowing a max is it noticeable at all with the stereo on. But of course, there are a lot of variables in this statement. I.e., how loud I prefer the stereo. I think I rarely crank it up to 25%. The only sound I typically hear when the fans are blowing at more than 75% is the whoosh of air being propelled through the various outlets. The only other normal sound is the A/C gurgling when it's turned off. I also get occasional faint cricket chirps behind the passenger side of the dash, but this is obviously a fan or impeller that's out of whack, and which I eventually will have worked on.

    Other than these things, the only different and noticeable noise associated with the A/C is under the hood. When it's at all warm, and the compressor is running, various auxiliary engine-cooling fans kick in. Sometime these sound more than a bit like an air raid siren. This IS normal, but only if it's not too loud. If you see pedestrians diving for cover as you drive by, you know that one or more of the auxiliary fans has a problem. I've read reports of the fans' housings occasionally having shifted, and being struck by the fan's blades, akin to a playing card flipping through the spokes of a bicycle. When this happens, it can make a truly loud and horrendous siren sound.

    You might also want to listen to some of the other cars on the dealer's lot, and see if YOU think they're the same.
  • I just returned from the local Audi dealer and they have a new black on black '02 Allroad 2.7T 6-speed on sale for $42,200. Sticker price on the vehicle was $46,500.

    If anyone is interested in the extended warranty-the CNA warranty I purchased w/ the '00 2.7T @$2300 for 3 years or 100,000 miles (the clock starts after the Audi warranty runs out) does cover the turbo units themselves. If any non-covered items such as hoses or clamps that connects to the turbo broke and caused the turbo to fail-that turbo repair would not be covered under the extended warranty.
    CNA's # is 1-800-722-4758 if anyone would like more info about Audi extended warranties.
  • When I lived in Iowa about 10 years ago people used to call Lujack "Screwjack". I tried to buy a car from them (a Honda) and they weren't, aaah how do I put this, completely on the up and up. Things may have changed since then and I don't live in the area either so I can't help you any more than that. Call the BBB of Davenport and see what they have to say. Good luck and enjoy the move it is a pretty area.

    Grand High Poobah
    The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
  • I got my first Audi, a 2002 A6 4.2 with sport package, in May. It was the best car I've driven to date. The only problem has been two failed stereo head units, which trace back to a software glitch in the 2002 model that Audi cannot chase to ground.

    Last Friday I took delivery on an S6 Avant. My God . . . this iteration of the A6 takes a great car straight into the stratosphere. I had a '98 Corvette (which I dumped after 13 shop visits in 15 months), and this Audi feels as if it has the accelerative punch and handling edge of the 'Vette (on the days it was running). But the build quality and chassis solidity of the Audi are infinitely better.

    Of course, the data give the lie to my subjective impressions. The Corvette was reportedly good for 5.2 seconds to 60 mph, and Audi reports only 6.5 seconds for the S6. But, for the life of me, the Audi seems at least as hot. In any case, you certainly won't find a meaner station wagon on the planet. It even looks great.

    Now . . . one huge plea from a new Audi addict to the folks in Ingolstadt. PLEASE LOSE THE BOSE AND PUT IN A REAL AUDIO SYSTEM! These cars are just too good to participate in Amar Bose's marketing scam. (The man believes that high frequencies tire the ear, and the treble attenuation he designs into his systems make any attempt to achieve true tonal balance hopeless. His thumpy bass and punchy midrange vocals may be a drunk frat boy's definition of a "killer system," but they are an insult to more critical listeners. If you don't believe me, check out the Lexus Mark Levinson system or even the factory Jaguar S-Type system. It can be done in a car, and done well.)

    C'mon, Audi . . . you're just one measly audio system away from automotive perfection. Not bad.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Your new S6 sounds wonderful, Mike. Everyone I've heard from who has gotten one has said it has dramatically exceeded their expectations.

    I've not been overwhelmed by the Bose in my '01 2.7T either. And while I'm not an audiophile, I have to question whether the A6's Bose's mediocre performance is entirely attributable to Bose. The '91 Legend I had had a Bose labeled system that had, to my ear, rich and complex sound. The succeeding Lexus ES300 wasn't as good, and the A6's Bose, sadly less enjoyable than that. I've made my peace with my Bose system, and enjoy music on it, but I too would welcome a substantial improvement, and can easily understand your frustration finding it your new S6.

    I've not done a comprehensive survey, but my impression is that German manufacturers either have different taste in sound, or just don't think it's all that important. I've read many comparisons by both reviewers and owners describing the sound systems in cars of other manufacture, notably the Japanese, as being superior to German autos irrespective of either the price of the car, or the cost of the sound system option.

    I've personally attributed my less-than-thrilled perception of the sound in my A6 to the Panasonic manufactured head unit that was used in my '01. I think that beginning in '02, there is a different one. I don't know who makes it, but I've never been pleased by the sound generated by any Panasonic products. The one thing that the Panasonic unit did have was a hidden graphic equalizer. This went away with the new head unit, or at least, no one has found it yet. After I adjusted it, I found I was able to color the sound more to my liking.
  • aggie76aggie76 Posts: 266
    Thanks guys for the advice. We've got a car show here in Austin this weekend and I'll be spending several hours there really testing the space aspects.

    I will definitely do more research into Lujack before making any decisions.

    I can't wait to get up there and get a quattro and have some fun with winter roads.
  • You're right, Timcar. The sound of the Bose does vary from car to car. I've had Bose's in an Acura Legend, an Acura 3.5 RL, and the Corvette, and they sounded different in each car. Not surprising, since the car's interior size, shape, and interior hugely affect the sound. In fact, the Bose in the 2002 S6 sounds a bit clearer and more tonally balanced than in the 2002 A6. But even the best of the Bose applications has been noticeably below any other system I've had in other cars.

    The best factory systems (such as the Mark Levinson) are optimized for the particular car. There is very little difference in the Levinson sound between the LS430 version and the GS430 version, even though both interiors vary greatly in acoustic characteristics.

    For a lot of long-distance commuters, our cars have become our primary listening venue for music. The better a car gets, the more one craves that last iota of perfection and notices its absence. The Audi is so good that the subpar audio system looms large as an annoyance. Audi should at least give us the option of paying extra for an alternative system. (Some A6 drivers on the site have actually opted not to buy the "premium" Bose system, because the base system sounds better. There is even a rhyme people quote on that site -- "Got no highs, got no lows . . . must be a Bose." Unfortunately, the Bose is standard in both the A6 4.2 and the S6.)

    But I want to keep this in perspective. This is a phenomenal car. I can barely imagine what the RS6 will be like.
  • drcsfdrcsf Posts: 36
    I have been reading this board for a few weeks because I am considering buying a 2001 A6 2.7T, 6 speed with Sport Package. The car has 13,000 miles on it. My neighbor is a Porche/Audi dealer sales manager and bought the car for his wife. She then got pregnant and now they need an SUV. He says he owes $34,000 on the car and I can have it for that. I assume it has been serviced properly given his place of employment. My question is does this sound like a fair price? I looked up the kelly blue book numbers ($35,000) but I know most people can buy used cars below those values. Also it is not a "certified" used Audi because I would buy it from him but he said if I want to pay for it he can have it certified through the dealer, adding some period of time to the warranty. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you, Craig.
  • For the pricing you should check what this car (with comparable equipment) is actually selling for - I'm not sure what that would be exactly, but you are right about Kelly Blue Book. In any case I would ask to see the vehicle's service records to see if the oil has been changed (at least on schedule, otherwise I wouldn't buy it) and what if any other problems the car's had. The milage is low and if the car is in "like new" condition, it could be a very good buy (but again, check to see what comparable cars are really selling for). If you can get it certified for a reasonable cost, that would be great if you plan to keep it more than a couple of years. But if only plan on owning it for two years the car does have at least two years or 37,000 miles left on the Audi factory warranty/free maintenance plan, which is the best in the business for the first 50,000 miles/4 years, whichever comes first. You would also have the option of buying an extended warranty should you decide to keep it beyond the factory warranty, but these tend to be expensive ($2,000+). Hope it works out for you 'cause it's a great car.
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