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Audi A6

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Comments

  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    I was reconsidering buying an A6 4.2 and took one out that nearly met all of my requirements. It was black/amaretto, etc. Well, I was checking out the MMI and the knob came right off in my hand. It looked as though it had been used so much that it was either stripped or broken. This car is an absolute baby. When I first found it on their lot, it was COVERED in dust and still had all the "packaging" inside. I wonder if the detailing guys broke it when they were cleaning it up for me or if the button is really that flimsy. BTW, I thought the button was metal, but it appears to only be plastic. :(
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I have NO issues with the car's sturdiness -- with ONE exception:

    The pushbutton START ENGINE button (at 5,000 miles) has died twice (I am on my third switch.)

    While it is a 10 minute replacement job, it is a bit of a pain in the buns since you do have to go to the dealer to get this fixed. I lumped my third button in with the 5K service interval, but FYI.

    If the car were to be "prepped," any issue with the MMI knob would be taken care of, of that I am confident.

    Despite some gripes you may read here and elsewhere, service is free and generally competent -- but then again what do I know, we only have two Audi dealerships here in Cincinnati -- but I personally have "nuttin' but love" for the treatment they provide customers.

    I too have the Amaretto leather -- love it!
  • bigrobnhbigrobnh Member Posts: 114
    Out of curiosity, what happens when the START ENGINE button doesn't work? Does your car not start?

    Regards,
    BigRob.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Yep, the car is dead with respect to that particular function. Of course the key still works in the ignition just like one that is sans Advanced Key.

    It is also kinda funny when you have the key in your pocket and you get out of the car while it is running -- if, for example, your wife drove off and you had the key in your pocket, the car would keep running, and I have no idea if the STOP button would work (I assume it would ONCE), but then the start button would be disabled.

    Of course there is a bright display in the center of the dash that tells you the key is not in the car.

    Again, keyless function is great -- but for $750 you'd think the switch would be sturdier.

    The long term update in Motor Trend (I think) mentioned that they too are having difficulty with their ENGINE START button.

    This looks to be the same button set that is on the A8L W12 ($120,000+) -- would you be ticked or what if your $120K car's weakest link was the start button?

    I'm somewhat annoyed and mine was "only" $53K.

    BMW charges $1,000 for their version. You would think this feature has no way it could be justified to cost that much, in either the Audi ($750) or the BMW. It is a way cool feature, I like it. But voice command is $350 and THAT is a safety feature what with some 82 buttons, etc, to distract the driver.

    The option charges, IMHO, are backwards, i.e.
  • liferulesliferules Member Posts: 531
    I believe the manual says the car won't stop without the key in proximity. Thus, your wife would never be able to stop the car until it ran out of gas. Then it wouldn't ever restart...

    Personally, I've been lucky as to the start button....never had any problems, but I've been getting an "adaptive lighting display" problem warning despite my lights working just fine. I've had the shop reset the warning once and will have to take it in again for this.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    Hi Guys:

    Well, 'Mr. Acura' here is about to take a "walk on the wild side" and take ownership of a new, 2005 A6 3.2 sedan this weekend. Oyster Grey metallic with the Beige Leather Interior/Birchwood trim. Audi is selling them for $4500 below invoice now, so the price was right.

    Here's my question and I would appreciate a quick answer if you have one. The car is coming with the 16" tires/wheels which I don't think look so great or drive so well. I am attracted to either the 17" wheel (my first choice) and the 18" wheel (my second choice). I am looking for a tire size that will offer improved performance but not at the expense of ride comfort or fuel economy. I like the look of the 17" Audi rims, and the size seems to be a good trade-off for the reasons mentioned above.

    1. Wheels -- How can I buy Audi brand wheels without paying parts department price? The cost on these wheels (not tires) supposedly is $485 each x 5 wheels. The dealer will give me a $500 credit for the old wheels and tires. Do any of you know where I can find these Audi OEM wheels at a discount -- from a reputable source?

    2. Tires -- From what I have read at TireRack, most of the 17" Michellin, Pirelli, Continental and Dunlop brand tires are NOT great. The dealer wants $210 per 17" tire -- OEM brand, whatever it is. He is perfectly happy to put on any tires I want, including those I purchase on my own.

    Can anyone recommend a good tire/brand for Southern California application -- everyday driving, moderately spirited driving now and then? As mentioned earlier, comfort and noise are an issue. Handling is also important. Treadlife is a concern, though noise and comfort come first. On a related note, Falken tires enjoy a very good reputation (the Ziex ZE-512 235ZR - 17 97W REIN would presumably fit on the A6 3.2) They are sold at Discount Tire (tires.com) for $96.00 each.

    FWIW: I am driving the Yokohama AVS-db2 on my Legend now and am very happy at the price/performance trade off for an Ultra-high performance All Season tire. It's a good handling tire in its category.

    Thanks in advance guys!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Here is a suggestion: Falken Azenis ST115 245 x 40 x 18" -- a true UHP tire, summer only -- probably OK year round for you. I have had this tire/model three times, once @ 17" and twice @ 18".

    These are quieter than the AVS db tires -- plus they are truly sticky. Avg price point @ $165/tire. Wear rating 360. They will go to 20,000 miles and perform virtually as new. Beyond 25,000 miles they begin to be less sticky and have a little noise. They are still excellent. If you want better you will spend 50% more.

    You can get Audi replica wheels @ 18" for about 50% of the price for the Audi wheels -- I bought RS6 18" replicas (Hartmann) for my 2003 Audi allroad. They included the Audi dust caps, the wheels were dead on the RS6.

    These wheels, today, are the SLine wheels on the current A6.

    I know you have your reasons for 17" wheels, I cannot tell the difference in comfort or noise -- there is a benefit to the handling with the Azenis ST115's @ 245 x 40 x 18" and the look of the RS6 wheel replicas is fantastic.

    At least consider this. I believe the wheels are about $250 per. I bought 4, not 5.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    "You can get Audi replica wheels 18" for about 50% of the price for the Audi wheels -- I bought RS6 18" replicas (Hartmann) for my 2003 Audi allroad. They included the Audi dust caps, the wheels were dead on the RS6."

    Mark,

    I knew you would come through in pinch! Thank you for the timely reply. WHERE do I buy these replicas? Are they the same weight as the OEM version? I have been cautioned to make sure that the weight and size are proper, less there be undue wear on steering, suspension or other parts.

    Do they come only in 18" or do they make a 17" as well? Given your purchases, I assume that you strongly prefer the 18.

    Any material decrease in gas mileage in the larger tire?

    Thanks again Mark.
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    Try ebay for wheels. There are tons of wheels on there from dealers that will ship to your door. You can buy (4) Italian replica 18 inch wheels for under $1000.

    My favorite wheel for the new 05/06 A6 is the 18 inch 5 spoke wheel that's on the current S Line package. It looks incredible

    Tire rack is the best place for tires. 18 inch stock conti's are about $150-160 each.
    You should be able to pimp out your car for about $1500. It would cost you more like $3,000 from the Audi parts department. And you can sell your old 16 inch tires and wheels to help offset the cost
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    That IS the RS6 "replica" I was talking about. It is a great looking wheel.

    Indeed, many of the companies will send you the wheel with the tire of your choice already mounted and balanced and this saves additional $ since they sell the tire+wheel+shipping combo for less combined.

    E-mail me for the particulars, I will give you the company I bought mine from, somehow I think if I post the company's URL, I'll get my post knocked off.

    Funny, I think they are having a sale through September on Audi wheels, too.

    I had no issues with the wheels I bought aftermarket -- when you see the company I dealt with, perhaps it will become clear, they are Audi fanatics!
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    As long as the URL is not to an automobile dealer and you don't have a personal stake in the business, you can post the URL. Any questions you have about these policies can usually be answered by reading the Rules of the Road or the Membership Agreement - both are linked on the left. And of course you can always drop me an email.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    Well, I picked up the car this afternoon. Drives great and sure is a looker -- Osyter Grey Metallic/Beige Interior. Classic. Beautiful car, stunning ... pure sculpture.

    Lot's to like now and to explore later ... but so far, the MMI is my least favorite aspect of the car. I am sure that in time it will become much easier, but still, IMO, Audi has over complicated things that should and could be easy. Where can I buy some "Cliff's Notes" for the MMI? LOL!
  • flyfishing47flyfishing47 Member Posts: 7
    My 2005 A6 has a squeeking sound coming from behind the passenger side dash that lasts about 15 minutes on a cold start and then disappears. Anyone else have this problem. I've got 17M miles on the car and this appeared following the 15M service visit.

    Thanks.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Hopefully you have voice control -- otherwise the radio, CD, telephone and Navigation systems will be a major health hazard!

    This thing has 82 controls for the driver to fiddle with!

    BTW, so as not to send a mixed message, I love mine.

    Voice is absolutely positively NOT an option on this car, however.

    The only problems thus far are one repeated monthly: I make a lease payment and I replace the pushbutton start. On Monday, I will be on my fourth payment and my fourth switch.

    Sweat the details, sweat the details, sweat the details.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    "Hopefully you have voice control -- otherwise the radio, CD, telephone and Navigation systems will be a major health hazard!
    This thing has 82 controls for the driver to fiddle with!
    BTW, so as not to send a mixed message, I love mine.
    Voice is absolutely positively NOT an option on this car, however. "

    Mark:

    As I purchased a year end 2005 model, the options available to me last week were quite limited (vis a vis inventory). So, no, I don't have voice activation -- wish I did! You make an excellent point. I also wish that I had the Advance Key too, as I find the key is rather awkward to hold and operate, and I am afraid that sooner or later I may puncture my leather, or scratch the paint as I absent mindedly get out of the car with the metal key still protruding from the key fob. A power tilt steering wheel would have also been nice on the 3.2 version but of course it was not offered. Quite honestly, I think that the salespeople I worked with (over the course of a couple months) could have done a much better job of explaining these options and why some are "not an option", but really mandatory for safe and happy ownership. Had that been the case, I might have purchased sooner.
    As you might imagine, the sales guys were only to happy to tell me (last week) that a lot of options were just fluff.

    Yes, I concur that the MMI could be very dangerous when driving. I'm trying to understand what Audi was trying to accomplish when they designed it -- that would help in judging whether or not they achieved their goal. As far as I am concerned, it is not only a failure but a real negative. Indeed, it is really the ONLY thing that I do not like about the car. And as you alluded, it can be dangerous; not to mention frustrating. Can voice control be added after sale by Audi?

    Ersatz design -- Let's take icons in the HVAC control display. In MMI we are presented with a bunch of non descript arrows, many of which look pretty much the same, along with a pretty bad representation of a small vent. It takes my full concentration, at this stage in my ownership, to correctly select the right arrow combination. What would have been so wrong with having a seated man icon -- like you see in any Acura or Honda -- with arrows pointing to the man indicating where the air was going to blow? That style of representation requires no translation, it's quite simple to see, choose and select.

    Some have argued that after studying the manual, and having the car for a week or so, that it becomes second nature. Maybe, for some. But what about others who may be driving the car for the first time? A relative, a friend, a spouse? Will they be fiddling trying to figure things out and take their eyes off the road at a critical time? It could easily happen. If Audi is truly concerned about owner safety and keeping your eyes on the road, then why make MMI as it is? Or why even sell it without voice control?

    Anyone know if MMI be refined and improved? A new software design published? Another version, if you will. Just a few questions and comments to kick around.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    My key remote (NOT Advance Key) on my new A6 3.2 seems low on battery juice . It will only unlock the car doors from a distance of 10 feet or less. Compared to my former Lexus, which would open from well across the street, the Audi key remote seems awfully weak. The car was manufactured in February 2005, fwiw.

    Is this normal operation for the standard Audi key remote, do I have a weak battery, or a malfunctioning unit? How often should one expect to change the batts on these things?

    Thanks.
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Try iDrive. :)

    The climate controls are on the dash. Why mess with MMI for that unless you are really seriously reconfiguring stuff?

    -Paul
  • liferulesliferules Member Posts: 531
    I agree with you that the climate controls are confusing, but I personally don't ever use them. That's the perk of having such an advanced car. Just set the temp, click "auto" and let it do the rest with its sun sensing, auto adjusting, etc... I personally have never yet in the year I've had my car found a situation where I needed to adjust the climate settings other than temp...

    Legendman, your battery may well be low. As you know, the batteries can drain more quickly with exposure to extreme temperatures or it may just be a bad battery. I'd take it by the dealership and see if they'll give you a free new battery, o/w follow the manual and replace it yourself. My remote works much farther than 10'.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    "My remote works much farther than 10'."

    How far?
  • tomtorontotomtoronto Member Posts: 1
    Just checking out older messages in the forum and ran across the question of the Bose DSP reverting to Normal from other settings. I have experienced the same problem as well and wondered if you have found out yet whether there is a reset that is taking place or some other type of bug?
  • liferulesliferules Member Posts: 531
    at least 20-30'. I often walk up a long parking garage ramp to get to my car and it will unlock by remote easily at 20' if not 30' (though it is a straight line without any obstructions...
  • rboyd4rboyd4 Member Posts: 23
    I think I am driving a very similar A6 to what you describe. I called the Audi dealer and they indicate that they have no voice response retrofit for A6's that did not come from the factory with voice response. That said, I have spent a couple of hours studying the owner's manual and at this point (about 10 days of driving) find the MMI easy to use. As it pertains to the climate control, I agree with the other post- I just leave it on auto and manipulate the temperature that I want.

    PS I have driven an Infiniti since 1993. I was really leaning to a M35 which in several ways I would judge as better than an A6 (not to say that the A6 does not have certain advantages over the M35- safety, interior quality, etc. (IMO)). Those reading my previous posts will note that my A6 was actually acquired used (originally delivered 12/04). But, IMO, considering Audi's $4,500 incentive for remaining '05 A6's buying a 2005 A6 over an M35 is a no-brainer. At full MSRP vs. full MSRP I would probably lean to the M35 especially if someone was considering ownership past the warranty period. But, as a long, long time Infiniti owner I find myself in the strange position of saying the M35 is not the best deal right now. The M35 is a great car but it is too hot right now in terms of pricing. Historically Infiniti's traded at a discount to the luxury market. As a long time Infiniti owner I am happy (proud?) that they are really moving toward's parity with other luxury brands. However at this point, 2005 A6's trade at a relative discount so the field has switched. The A6, all things considered IMO is a better deal.
  • roadtrip2roadtrip2 Member Posts: 3
    I've been a fan of this site for most of the year and have finally joined. I acquired my 2005 Audi A6 in late June, have 3800 mi on it and major problem with the Advance Key which may finally be solved. After my third start switch they "replaced auto start control," a sizeable assembly that seems to be a steering column that must have some electronics in it. They had to reprogram all keys. So far so good after two weeks. Remember, the start switch operation is a two step process. Push once, then push a second time with foot on the brake. Mark's later posts on his switch replacement experience got my attention.

    Meanwhile the car gets fantastic mileage. I averaged 29.0 mpg on a 1600 mi trip from Chicago to Atlanta and return using 89 octane gas with one passenger, A/ C all the way and some local driving. Mileage is not so impressive for around the city without road trips.

    All in all the car is fantastic.
  • liferulesliferules Member Posts: 531
    My advanced key is a one-step process. Step on the brake and push start. Works every time.

    Sorry you were having problems, but glad it seems to be fixed.

    I agree with the somewhat disappointing mileage. I was hoping for more 17-18 in the city but have been getting more 14-15...
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    "the car gets fantastic mileage. I averaged 29.0 mpg on a 1600 mi trip from Chicago to Atlanta and return using 89 octane gas with one passenger, A/ C all the way and some local driving. Mileage is not so impressive for around the city without road trips. "

    29 mpg. Wow! Haven't had that kind of mileage since I owned a Honda Accord back in the early 1980s. That's great!

    Having just sold my SUV, I am thrilled at the mileage I am getting so far, which is just shy of 17 mpg, a mix of city and highway. The car has only 200 miles on it so with any luck it will get better as the engine breaks in. I do plan on swapping out the 16" tires for 17" tires -- I hope that there will not be much of a mileage penalty.

    As to 89 octane gasoline, I was emphatically told by the Audi service manager that the A6 requires 91 octane, and that using lower octane, such as 87 octane, could literally damage the engine. I asked about using lower octane sometime, for example, if I were on a trip and couldn't get premium fuel, he responded by saying that in that instance get the 89, but never the 87. How does this square with what you guys have read and been told?
  • rjlaerorjlaero Member Posts: 659
    I would always use at least 91 in the A6. It's not worth saving 15-20 cents a gallon on a 50k car.
  • roadtrip2roadtrip2 Member Posts: 3
    "Your vehicle may also be operated using unleaded regular gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 87AKI/91 RON. However, using 87AKI/91 RON octane fuel will slightly reduce engine performance" -----2005 Audi A6 Owner's Manual

    Top acceleration capability, is not as important to me (driving 20-25000 mi/year) as is fuel cost. I intend to try for optimum cost considering any difference in mpg by octane rating and total cost to drive say 1000 mi. I realize outside temp, humidity and other can be other variables. Could be interesting. It's my understanding that modern fuel system controls are programmed to to consider octane among other things.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Are you asking if you will save money by using Regular gasoline as opposed to the Premium grade fuel that is recommended by Audi? If so, then my recommendation is that you stay with Premium.

    By using Regular fuel in a car designed to run on Premium (but that has computer controls that are capable of dealing with Regular), you will not only degrade your cars' ability to produce power (for acceleration), but you will also degrade your cars' ability to achieve the optimium miles per every gallon of gasoline you burn.

    In the end, if you want to save money on fuel costs (not to mention maintenance down the road) in your A6, use Premium fuel.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • archichrisarchichris Member Posts: 11
    RE: your using 89 octane gas. I started using 89 in my 2002 A6 2.7T 6-man, on the advice of my service manager. A month ago, I tried the Shell V-Power (93 octane) and found that my mileage on the highway jumped up almost 3 mpg, to around 27 mpg. I have since repeated this on 2 different road trips, and have found that I consistently get better mileage using the 93. [At $3.00/gallon, I save a little over $6.00 for the extra 54 miles to the tank that I travel, which makes up for the $1.80 extra the gas costs.]
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    Thanks Archichris for sharing your results. I am not surprised to hear them.

    Nonetheless, I would like to steer this conversation back to the original question I posed, which was not whether or not you guys use or recommend non-Premium fuel, or are attempting to save money, etc. Rather, I asked what owners had read and heard with respect to what is the proper fuel for the A6 3.2 engine (2005) and whether or not less than 91 octane would damage the engine. I raised this question because the service manager at my Audi dealership emphatically informed me that lower octane fuel (especially 87 octane) would DAMAGE my engine. Not surprisingly, my salesperson gave me a whole speech about how the car could use regular. Naturally, I am inclined to put more stock in the service manager's advice.

    The "damage" to the engine comment is what I would most like to confirm. Yes, I have read the owners manual, and understand that the car can run on on lower octane fuels, but again, other than reduced performance, is their a real risk of damaging the engine? Anyone talked to their Audi mechanic or service advisor about this and gotten any definitive word?

    I wish that I could use 93 or 92 octane, but unfortunately 91 octane is now the highest octane fuel you can buy in Southern California. We used to have 92 out here but as a cost saving measure the refineries stopped making it, presumably in order to offset the cost of the higher fuel standards our state requires.
  • liferulesliferules Member Posts: 531
    I'd have to look again, but I could have sworn that the gas cap label on my A6 says "use premium fuel, 91 or higher"... or something to that effect. I believe the 91 is acceptable, but JMO...
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    It all depends on your definition of “damage”.

    If you mean a head gasket blowing out…probably not. If you mean black smoke puffing out and the car dieseling after you shut it down…probably not.

    I talked to a relative who’s an engineer (non-Audi) and he said you’ll probably encounter problems “down the road” if you CONTINUALLY used a lower than recommended gasoline grade. So if you’re running out of gas in the Appalachian’s and you hear dueling banjo’s in the distance you can put in the 87 octane and not worry about it.

    If you want to put in 87 for the next couple months when gas is high you probably won’t run into problems; but that goes back to the false economy of the lower octane…which I know is not your direct question.

    My relative said you may have more carbon related issues with the injectors, fuel systems etc…though who knows.

    So…short answer NO the donuts will not blow your diet…unless you eat it all the time :)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    At 4 payments I am on my third replacement advanced key switch. Grand total of four switches.

    Otherwise the car has been flawless or close enough.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    What would be the purpose of using lower grade gasoline if, as at least two "reputable" (and no, I don't mean me) people have told me (and explained why) it will actually COST MORE to use the lower grade?

    It seems counter intuitive to use premium in a car that "can't benefit" from the higher octane (and therefore more expensive) AND it likewise seems counter intuitive to use regular in a car that is specifically designed for premium when the results in the pocket book for either behavior are the same: more money out of your pocket for no reward.

    I would imagine that a manufacturer (or at least its selling arm) would rather their cars be sold with the notice "runs optimally on Regular."

    I do not believe Audi markets its cars as requiring premium fuel to make the car more "upscale" in any way, shape, manner form or regard.

    Indeed, if Audi could accomplish "premium" performance on regular, wouldn't they just do it rather than force their customers to buy more expensive fuel?

    :confuse:
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I read the very easy to understand comments wherein the poster switched to Premium in his Audi and saved a gross $6.00 at a $1.80 cost for a net savings of $4.20.

    Add to this the slight damage ("damage") that using the low grade stuff causes (see above posts on the subject) coupled with the statement that seems almost incredible (something about chintzing out on the gas on a $50K car) and I say we shoot this topic since beating it to death has apparently not been successful.

    Just a thought. :shades:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Well said Mark. I cannot tell you how many posts I've read from folks who want to put Premium in their car built for Regular, hoping to improve their mileage, as well as the reverse of that from folks who just dumped 50 large on a new car and want to put Regular in their new ride to save money. I really don't understand why so many people attempt to second guess the very skilled engineers who design these modern engines.

    At the risk of repeating myself, "Folks, the combustion process is extremely well understood and has been for many many years. If an engine is designed to perform best on any given grade of fuel, then by deviating from said grade, you will reduce your performance both in terms of acceleration AND economy."

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • archichrisarchichris Member Posts: 11
    Sorry to be so late getting back to you. My owner's manual strongly suggests using 91 octane for performance, but that it is possible to use 87 octane gas [performance will be decreased, due to the engine management system retarding the spark.]

    The only octane grades we have in Houston are 87, 89, and 93. For awhile, I actually filled half of my tank with 89, and half with 93, just to get the right "average" octane. When I spoke to my service advisor about this, he said that going up to the 93 would not help. . . that as our temperatures here are so much hotter, the 93 octane gas tends to vaporize too soon [at leasst in my 2.7 T], and that I would be better off just using 89 octane, which I did for over three years. It was only in the last couple of months that I switched back to the 93 [Shell V-Power]. I don't know whether the benefits I've found would be true outside of our climate here, or with another refiner. Re: using only the 87 octane, my advisor never, ever cautioned me about using it. Given that I seem to be receiving better performance/mileage with the 93 [in spite of what he said], I don't know that I would take his word on this as "gospel."
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    Notwithstanding protestations about the subject having been beaten to death, I would simply want to reiterate what was, and remains, a simple question. Can using lower octane fuel DAMAGE the engine in a 2005 Audi 6 3.2 engine? Yes or no? Don't know?

    I am not interested in the debate of whether it's penny wise and pound foolish, or any of the other tangents that have been launched into recently. I use premium in the car and intend to continue to do so. Nonetheless, I would simply like to hear from other owners as to whether or not they have read anything definitive as how or if lower octane fuel could damage the Audi engine -- corroborating what my Audi service advisor told me. If you don't have an answer that responds to the question, feel free to skip it.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    As if this is a good answer: I called my Audi service manager (a guy who has several "certs" on the wall, however these certificates do have the tell tale Audi rings on them), he seemed to not fully understand the answer, as his comments had to do with the virtual irrlelevance of the question since he seems convinced that the cost of using regular exceeds any price reductions that may accrue.

    It was almost as if he could not fathom anyone using regular even if it were deemed entirely benign, since doing so would cost MORE money.

    I do see his point.

    Yet the question of "damage" looms -- perhaps large -- for reasons that escape me since most stations seem to run out of the lower grade product first, then mid, then premium.

    I frankly continue to be bewildered by this subject.

    All US Audis require premium fuel for performance and optimum cost. Using less than simply causes a reduction of performance and mileage an increase in costs and the POTENTIAL for engine damage, albeit (apparently) light.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    A quick rule of thumb, the hotter the environment, inside the combustion chamber or out, the greater the need for Premium in an engine designed for such. Given that most folks think that Premium fuel has more power per gallon and many think that Premium is more volatile, I guess it's not too surprising that many think that the higher grade the fuel the faster it will vaporize. I'm here to tell you that nothing could be further from the truth.

    Fact: There is virtually no difference in the BTU or Calorie count in a gallon of gasoline regardless of which grade of fuel you are talking about.

    Fact: The reason that Premium is called for in higher compression engines (regardless of whether it's mechanical compression as in a high compression ratio, or whether it's a high net compression ratio due to an external blower) is that Premium fuel is the most stable (non-volatile) of the grades and as such it takes LONGER for the flame front to fully develop.

    The ultimate goal for an engine is to smoothly burn the fuel all of the way through as in "Woosh". If your fuel goes "Woosh" for say 95% of the mixture and "bang" for the remaining 5% you have detonation (pinging). Detonation is where a small pocket (or pockets) of "End Gas" (the unburned remnants of the intake charge) spontaneously explodes due to too much heat/pressure in the combustion chamber. A little "bang" is basically harmless, too much "BANG" and things get bent, holed, or otherwise broken. If you have a situation where there is no "Woosh" at all, and only "BANG" instead, your engine will self destruct in a matter of seconds.

    Where was I? Oh yes! The goal of an engine is to ignite the intake charge somewhere before Top Dead Center (TDC) at just the precise moment that the fuel starts to burn in a rapidly accelerating fashion so that the moment of peak pressure coincides with the exact point where the piston/connecting rod/crank throw are positioned for maximum mechanical advantage (approximately 15 degrees after TDC). Kind of nice how that works out, the point of maximum pressure pushing against a piston that can make the most mechanical twist out of said pressure.

    If the fuel is of a grade that is lower that the optimum called for by the designers of the engine, the flame front will develop too fast due to the greater volatility of the lower grades of fuel, and the peak point of pressure will be too early (press all you want on a piston that is exactly at TDC, it ain't goin' nowheres -- that's an exaggeration, but you get the idea). Not only that but since that peak point of pressure occurs in the very confined space of an as yet very small combustion chamber, the pressures and temperatures rise so fast that detonation is likely.

    What modern engines do when their multitude of sensors detect the onset of detonation (indicating either an engine malfunction or more likely lower grade fuel) is that they retard the spark (and valve timing if applicable) so that the flame front starts late enough to realign the peak pressure point with the point of best mechanical advantage. The problem here is that due to the late start that the fuel got on its burn, the combustion temperatures and pressures are lower than what they would be with premium fuel, and as a result, performance and economy both suffer.

    archichris, you mentioned that once you started using 93 octane fuel your mileage went up. As evidenced by my many writings on this subject, that is as I would have predicted. As a matter of fact, I consider it almost criminal that someone from an Audi dealership would counsel you otherwise as blown engines (both Turbocharged and Supercharged) benefit from higher octane fuel far more than any other engine on the road.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Can using lower octane fuel DAMAGE the engine in a 2005 Audi 6 3.2 engine? Yes or no? Don't know?

    Yes, if used consistently through the life of the vehicle; No if only one time.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Shippo
    That is the most clear and understandible description of fuel I have read Thanks Tony
  • archichrisarchichris Member Posts: 11
    Thanks, Shipo.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Any time folks, glad I could be of some service. I aims to please. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    Kudos to Shipo. Many thanks for providing facts, not friction.
  • wpwilliamwpwilliam Member Posts: 3
    I really like my 2004 A6 2.7T Quattro except for the climate control. It is so bad that I could write a chapter on it. I may sell the car because of it. Where's the Max AC? Why can't I just run the fan/vent without the compressor? The shifter is in the way of the buttons. I want to turn the compressor off and run the fan high for a minute or so when I've got the AC on and I'm near my destination, so I don't get condensation and the moldy smell that goes with it. Can't do it without pushing the buttons 30 times! Tick both sides up from 72 to 86 and max the fan, that's 30 pushes on the buttons! This is a luxury car, climate control should be a mode along with manual control. There is no manual control, and you have to push left and right sides. No EZ way to get Max AC, Max Heat, or fan/vent only. This is my complaint and I am very unhappy with it. Can't leave it on auto set at 72 because the condensation/mold smell that results is unacceptable. Even worse will be having to pay big bucks to fix it (after I get 50K miles on the car) - I can't believe how terrible it is. Any one else agree with me???
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,495
    This is very interesting. Thank you.

    Having rented an A3 & a couple of A4's in Germany a few years ago, I began following the Audi boards because I enjoyed them so much. However, in the real (non-traveling) world, I live in the Arizona desert. Air conditioning is a big deal here.

    I like simple things. Some would say elegant.

    This doesn't sound simple, much less the other.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • liferulesliferules Member Posts: 531
    I disagree. The beauty of such a complicated automobile such as the A6 is that you set the desired temp and leave it alone. The car does all the work for you, with its thermostat, sun sensor, etc... It baffles me to read people who toy with the blower ratios, etc...

    I set the temp when I bought my car and looked at the options as to vent blowing options. Since the initial setup (which I really didn't adjust from factory default), I have only adjusted the temp. Living in TX, I use AC ALL THE TIME, so I don't worry about turning it off or on econo (though that is easily done with one button)...

    I liken this discussion to people talking about their thermostats in their homes. Most people set the temp and leave it alone. A few toy with them constantly. If a person is of the latter group, then maybe a simple Neon would be better :)
  • archichrisarchichris Member Posts: 11
    Sound like your condensation pan isn't draining properly. I have a 2002 2.7T and I don't have that problem at all, ever, period. [On a side note, when I want to turn the compressor off, without letting the outside humid air in, I just hit the "recirculate" button and the "Econ" button. In Houston, it doesn't take long for the lack of humidity control afforded by the compressor to become apparent.]

    I really think that your's is a condensation/drainage issue.
  • wpwilliamwpwilliam Member Posts: 3
    Well there you go - I just read in the manual that the ECON switch turns off the compressor. Just what I needed!
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