Hi all...I just got back from a trip to Florida. I flew down, but drove his '98 Concorde back up to NJ. Some things I noticed which were concerning...the fan (cabin) sounds like it has mice or hamsters running on a wheel in it, the height adjust for the passenger's seatbelt is completely broken, the steering wheel's coloring is coming off (it's a tan interior, the wheel looks like a mix of black and tan - and yes, it is clean, my first thought was it was dirty)...other than that it drove and handled well, we made the 1050 mile trip in just under 17 hours, made 30mpg on the trip and the car was loaded with stuff (trunk and back seat), 2 adults.
The 300M is about 10" shorter then the Concorde (older style) and the Intrepid. That along with the cabinets I have was enough to make it easer decision.
A couple of things. First it was the first year production (athough my 99 is great). The other and main factor is how was it treated? Things like coins, paperclips and other stuff placed on the dash can fall down into the vents and cause such noises. Some people also use various lotions and solvents on there hands. If you ever read the lables on some of this stuff it would really scare you. Usually the rule is Take care of it and it will take care of you.
...I think the '98-01 Concorde was even a bit longer...something like 209-210". All the Concordes have the LHS front-end nowadays, which probably accounts for the difference in length.
I don't think that extra length would make much difference in most driving, since the ends of the cars taper off so much that you could probably do maneuvers that you couldn't in a shorter, but more squared-off car. But when it comes to parking, you still have to squeeze all that length in, so that's where it gets ya, I guess!
The Maxima is ahead in one area - sales to women. Almost every late model Maxima I see is driven by a woman. Also, the styling is bizarre, especially the back end.
Would I buy one? Perhaps, but I would also look at the Intrepid SXT. It is similar to my 2000 Intrepid R/T before the R/T became the loaded model, though mine does have ABS and autostick.
I don't need or want all the gadgets they put on most cars now-a-days. My 67 Galaxie has retaught me that.
...even in its most basic form, it has the 3.5 V-6 with 255 hp. I'm sure it would walk a "lowly" Intrepid SE like a dog, but then again a "lowly" Intrepid has a sticker price of roughly $5,000 less! The ES is about $2900 less, and the SXT is about $2100 less.
I have a feeling that Nissan 3.5 is going to require premium fuel, too...
The new offering produced by DC will be manufactured in Canada and under the German influence of Daimler, should be better than the past disasters offered by Chrysler. A better product and time will erase the horrors of the not too distant past at Chrysler.
Prior to the merger, Daimler had worse reliability and assembly quality than Chrysler. Long term durability may have been better, but Diamler probably had the same arrogant attitude after the merger - namely they had nothing to learn from Chrysler. Seeing how the new products have all been pushed back, sales have gone in the tank, and bad marketing miscues, their arrogance was not well placed. The are taking the Chrysler nameplate dowscale as they push Mercedes into the mass market.
I'll wait to see what the new LX is like, but the 2003 Crown Vic sounds pretty interesting to me.
"they had nothing to learn from Chrysler." a more true statement has never been made. The only thing that Chrysler could teach Daimler is how to build an inferior product and distrubute it through a substandard dealer network. Chrysler sales we in the "tank" long before Daimler came on the scene and without Daimler backing they would have had to go to the government on bended knee looking for more bailouts or concessions.
...Chrysler was doing pretty well in sales, until the Benz takeover. It wasn't until fairly late in the 2000 model year that things started to tank. They shot themselves in the foot with the Neon redesign in a rush to make it the first "new" 2000 model year car. The Stratus/Sebring really didn't catch on either once the '01 models came out. While they didn't exactly plummet, they didn't improve, either. And now that the Intrepid is in its 5th model year, looking almost unchanged, it should come as no surprise that sales are off.
As for the government "bailout", well, it was actually a loan guarantee. Chrysler paid that back too, with interest, and ahead of schedule. In 1983. So it cost the taxpayers nothing. In fact, it was probably a good thing the government stepped in. Just think of all the people that would've been put out of work if Chrysler closed its doors in 1979. GM and Ford were already running at maximum capacity, so they wouldn't have been able to produce more cars to take up the slack if Chrysler bailed. We were already teetering on the brink of recession as it was, and even though we plunged into it anyway, I'm sure it would've been a lot worse if Chrysler went under.
While everyone has an opinion, I think one thing can be fact: Mercedes is going to be eaten alive in the $30,000 entry level luxury area by Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, and even BMW. Once Mercedes ruins their hard won long term reputation for exclusivity and meticulous engineering, people will start to actually look at their product in a more logical manner. Mercedes are now engineered to a price like every other mass market vehicle, and it will come up short in comparasion to the others. I've heard their SUV built in Alabama is plagued with less than Mercedes quality. I'm sure if I shelled out big money for the Mercedes name, it would make me think twice to think a recent college grad can afford a new Mercedes too. I personally wouldn't care except this goal for Mercedes has effected the new 300 sedan and convertibles, which should be covering the 30-35 k market, not a Mercedes.
I will Der Schrempp credit if the Chrysler Pacifica turns out as nice as it seems at first blush, which is basically a modified Chrysler minivan and Chrysler drivetrain. I should be more generous due to the fact that not only are they running Chrysler poorly, they are destroying Mercedes as well. Can they ruin Mitsubishi and Hyundai as well?
I don't think a RWD sedan will catch on for the family sedan mass market. Crown Vic's sell well to police, and the Gran Marquis sells extremely well in Florida (no surprise, eh?), but the numbers are small compared to Camry, Accord, Taurus, etc. I'm not convinced a new RWD LX sedan is a good move for Chrysler/Dodge, but it does help Mercedes amortize design costs on the E-class.
imo, maxima is certainly nothing special. a close friend of mine has an '00 and other than a smooth and refined powertrain, i'm not really sure what the big deal is. his car rides like a go-kart and requires premium to get the full advertised hp. the exterior has been massaged enough over the past few years that it now looks fairly well integrated...but, i still don't understand the cache' associated with said car...
i always get a kick out of people associating any quality/perceived quality increase in chrysler vehicles as being solely attributed to daimler. almost all of what's out there now and to be released soon was well on its way before daimler tookover chrysler. i'm sure daimler has brought some good ideas to the relationship, but it was definitely not a one way street.
i must admit i'm also wondering about the move to rwd. it prolly makes sense in the case of the 300m and maybe even concorde, but not sure about the intrepid. i read somewhere that dc is going to push all the lx cars upmarket in price and options. seems to me that they'd wanna keep some models at least close to the price of the taurus, camry and accord, etc. especially now that the camry is getting ever closer in size to the current lh cars and i'm sure the next accord will also be larger than it currently is. will be quite interesting to see where they go with the lx cars...!
I have only had one problem with my 99 300M and that was a defective window regulator (made in Japan) that caused the problem. When Damler took over Chrysler, Chrylser had a cash surplus, something that quickly disapeared shorty after. And Companies being in financial trouble, look no farther then Nissan. Talk about being on the brink even with government backing. My 00 Honda and seen more service bays then my Chrysler.
I heard the 5.7L was going to be 350hp. Are they going to give a detuned version to the Intrepid, like the 3.5L on the R/T? I think Chrysler will keep the Intrepid to compete with the Taurus and the Malibu. Especially now that they changed the Concorde/LHS.
Then they could have a Plymouth version of the LH to do battle with the likes of the Taurus and Impala. The Malibu is really more Stratus territory. But if they still had Plymouth around, it could go for the masses and rental car fleets, while the Dodges could focus more on performance and the Chryslers more on luxury.
Have you visited the Camry Forum recently ? Their engine sludge problem looks scary. Even if Toyota offers to de-sludge the engines for these folks, it looks like it is a matter of time before the design problem catches up again.
The NASCAR Intrepid is similar in looks only, a real intrepid would be stretched to make it to turn one.
300michael I can only speak from personal experience, of all the cars I have owned the Decrepid Intrepid was by far the worse. The only time it met my expectations is before I drove it from the dealership yard.
...regardless of what the nameplate says or the bodyshell looks like, they're all RWD cars powered by pushrod V-8's. In fact, whether it's a Taurus, Intepid, Monte, or Grand Prix, I think the engines are all even the same displacement!
I think it's interesting that, once upon a time, cars like the Superbird and Daytona were offered to the public, because to be able to be raced, it had to be based on a production car. So if they wanted to use that nose and wing, they had to offer it on a production car. Too bad that doesn't hold true today...I wouldn't mind having a V-8, RWD, 2-door Intrepid!
Will it ever be possible to use the word Intrepid in the following paragraph?"
"One pleasant surprise when driving the Civic Hybrid was how quiet it remained inside the cabin. While sitting in the backseat, it was possible to hear people in the front conversing in normal voices without asking them to turn their heads. The low decibel level is due to additional insulation under the car, along with underside panels that make it more aerodynamic."
For the rest of the story see "edmunds" home page.
My 98 Concorde Lxi is very quiet. I was recently shopping, in the used car market, for a second car for my wife. Based on my wife's choices, I test drove the Accord, Mazda 626 and Camry. I ended up buying the 2000 626. I hated the accord's transmission. I drove 2-3 accords and found every one of them to be jerky when shifting. The Accord might have a reputation to run forever but the ride is a punishment when compared to the Concorde. I found the Concorde to be much more refined than the Accord. The Camry was smoother than the accord but I could not get the price and color combination. Also, the horror stories in the Camry forums about the engine sludge made me cautious. So ended up with the 626, not that they don't have horror stories but I got a good deal on the price.
After the test drives I have found new reasons to appreciate the Concorde. I find the Concorde to be more stable and comfortable than any of the above mentioned cars. Contrary to what many reviewers say, I like the design/layout of the light/wipers/parkingbrake controls on the Concorde better than the Accord/Camry/626.
my '00 intrepid was sufficiently quiet except for on coarsely textured roads where you'd get a constant low amplitude rumble. i would imagine the new rwd setup coming on the lx cars will have even more suspension isolation than the current cars. the lh cars sport large tires and suspensions that favor handling/solid ride vs cushy, and thus more feedback makes its way into the passenger compartment as compared to mush mobiles like the camry and almost any gm i can think of...
must have been one of a kind. The ones that I have driven (rentals) all exhibit greater than normal road noise. I only use a Chrysler product now as last resort, just a step above a horse and carriage.
In daily driving and normal smooth roads, our 2000 300M isn't all that bad (still bot great). But, if your drive goes on a little longer, like a trip, the noise seems to get worse and worse and the car soon seems like a ragged and unrefined beast of a car. For some odd reason, I tend to think of the car as a prototype undergoing testing, with the noise being next on the testing and refining list. This is what our car is like, or at least it is to me.
As for course or rough roads, yeah, it is kind of a constant rumble booming through the interior. I think your 2 best bets are to 1)Get rid of the noisy tires and 2)Invest in some sound insulation, both sheeting and foam.
Oh yeah, we tend to have a lot of rattles too. It's odd, but I haven't heard many lately though? I think a MSN Carpoint review title I read sums it up best: "Noise on Wheels!"
Who cares how much noise a car maked inside? My Explorer and Malibu (car replaced by 2002 Intrepid) have far more road noise than the Intrepid. A Boeing 747 flying over makes a little more noise than a helicopter.
Other than a speaker which was bad out of the factory, the Intrepid has been the most trouble free new car any of my family has had in a while (4 Explorers, 1 Expedition, 2 Grand Marquis, 1 Windstar, and a Chevy Malibu) over the past 8 years.
By the way I prefer Coke over Pepsi, and Miller Lite is better because it tastes greater more than I find it less filling.
I can hear the wind whipping around the mirrors, as well as where one of the door seals shrunk and came loose in back. A little tire noise too, but nothing major. I mean, you can tell it's there, but nothing you have to shout over! As for squeaks and rattles, the only thing I notice is a bit of a creak from the A-pillar on the driver's side sometimes. The car reached 58,000 miles over the weekend, and nothing has broken or fallen off in the interior. The cup holder doesn't pop out quite as smoothly as it used to, and if I nail the brakes the little cover over the ashtray (or what would be an ashtray if I had the smoker's package) will flip open. Oh yeah, the piece of plastic on top of the center console, the one that has a fine square grid pattern on it, is a little loose.
So no, the car hasn't been perfect. But overall I'd say it's been pretty damn good. I'm taking a trip to Texas in about 3 weeks, so I guess that'll be a true test of the car's endurance!
before i bought the '00 intrepid i test drove a honda accord coupe. i was simply amazed at how noisy it was. but interestingly enough, when you read an accord article in a car mag, noise is rarely mentioned. anyhoo, i never said the intrepid was the quietest car out there. but imo it is certainly not objectionable. if dc decides to bump the cars up in stature with the next redesign, i'm sure the noise levels will drop even further...except of course for the awesome sound that the hemi will produce as it blows other cars off the road!!! especially overpriced foreign jobs...
Host: Post 1035 was not an attempt to compare the lowly Intrepid to a Civic. It was merely asking the question if the Intrepid, which is promoted in a class above and beyond the Civic, will ever meet the refinements included with the Civic. Why would DC have to continually "bump" the vehicle to the next class to provide the quality and comforts included in many of the lower end products.
If one did compare the Civic to an Intrepid it would be like comparing apples to oranges or maybe better described as comparing apples to lemons.
Derek: "Noise on wheels" that is a very good description of the Chrysler lineup. It amazing how the FOREIGN competition can make a product of better quality that shows through their complete product line. With the America product huggers they have to resort to comparing their product to lower scale products, moving to the truck sector, or even to airplanes. Some poor souls will even purchase a truck to better enable them to make the statement their Intrepid was "normal" when it came to road noise, how ironic.
all i can say is, "it's a good thing we can all tell who the authority is when it comes to intrepids?" happy motoring to those of you who actually have an intrepid or have actually owned one before...and it sure would be nice if those who've read zen and the art of tricyle maintenance would find someplace else to play...!
I don't know about lexus but there was a new Avalon beside me at the traffic lights yesterday. When the lights turned green, I drove my Concorde slowly and surely ahead while the Avalon spun in the snow for 3 seconds then drifted to the side before he caught up with me at the next traffic lights. This happened again and when he caught up with me at the next lights he was grinning stupidly at me.
Is your lexus any better ? Are you not worried about the engine sludge that is bothering those guys in the Camry forums, in the maintenance & repair section, considering you have the same engine ?
I have to say, the only real noise my Intrepid has is tire noise. That, and due to it being an R/T, it has a nice exhaust rumble. The exhaust was designed that way, and I like it. If quietness is paramount, buy a Buick.
As far as the Civic goes, my girlfriend's 99 Civic LX and my sister's 99 Accord EX 4 cylinder are both noisier than my Intrepid, other than the tire noise. Actually, I was surprised how noisy the engine in the Accord actually is.
The Civic is a nice commuter car, but the seats are terribly uncomfortable, the ride is stiff, and it is too narrow. When she and I go anywhere, I always drive by both party's choice.
In the article, the Civic was a hybird, when running on electric, the gas engine is shut off.
Well, 34,000 miles on the 99 ES and first problem (minor) has appeared. The actuator on a rear door lock has failed. Dealer ordered, but now backordered. Thanks goodness it wasn't the driver's door lock. It would seem that, what with the backorder on the part, this must be a relatively common problem. Thoughts?
Hard to say, it seems dealers never keep any parts in stock anymore. Maybe a comment on how complex cars are today, with the thousands of different parts in just one model.
I have keyless entry on my 2000, and I have not had problems with it yet. Of course, I have only 19,000 miles on it.
I have to say, I did buy an extended warranty when I got the car, but obviously have never had to use it yet.
Comments
you must have a really short garage since the intrepid is barely any longer than the 300m...?
Usually the rule is Take care of it and it will take care of you.
here are those measurements since i had nothing better to do at the moment...
300m 197.8"
intrepid 203.7"
concorde 207.7"
i didn't realize the concorde was that much longer than a 300m...
I don't think that extra length would make much difference in most driving, since the ends of the cars taper off so much that you could probably do maneuvers that you couldn't in a shorter, but more squared-off car. But when it comes to parking, you still have to squeeze all that length in, so that's where it gets ya, I guess!
Would I buy one? Perhaps, but I would also look at the Intrepid SXT. It is similar to my 2000 Intrepid R/T before the R/T became the loaded model, though mine does have ABS and autostick.
I don't need or want all the gadgets they put on most cars now-a-days. My 67 Galaxie has retaught me that.
I have a feeling that Nissan 3.5 is going to require premium fuel, too...
wing emblem in black as well as the silver backgound with black inserts and one with a black background with gold
inserts.The labels will be 2-3/4" x 5" rectangular with rounded edges. As I had said before use the following
catalogue numbers to order them as the web site still only shows the ones for the PT cruiser.
VISORSV-05 for silver
VISORBK-05 for black
VISORGLD-05 for the gold.
They are $16.00 a pair U.S. The site is at http://www.ptwarehouse.com/index1.htm
I'll wait to see what the new LX is like, but the 2003 Crown Vic sounds pretty interesting to me.
As for the government "bailout", well, it was actually a loan guarantee. Chrysler paid that back too, with interest, and ahead of schedule. In 1983. So it cost the taxpayers nothing. In fact, it was probably a good thing the government stepped in. Just think of all the people that would've been put out of work if Chrysler closed its doors in 1979. GM and Ford were already running at maximum capacity, so they wouldn't have been able to produce more cars to take up the slack if Chrysler bailed. We were already teetering on the brink of recession as it was, and even though we plunged into it anyway, I'm sure it would've been a lot worse if Chrysler went under.
I will Der Schrempp credit if the Chrysler Pacifica turns out as nice as it seems at first blush, which is basically a modified Chrysler minivan and Chrysler drivetrain. I should be more generous due to the fact that not only are they running Chrysler poorly, they are destroying Mercedes as well. Can they ruin Mitsubishi and Hyundai as well?
I don't think a RWD sedan will catch on for the family sedan mass market. Crown Vic's sell well to police, and the Gran Marquis sells extremely well in Florida (no surprise, eh?), but the numbers are small compared to Camry, Accord, Taurus, etc. I'm not convinced a new RWD LX sedan is a good move for Chrysler/Dodge, but it does help Mercedes amortize design costs on the E-class.
imo, maxima is certainly nothing special. a close friend of mine has an '00 and other than a smooth and refined powertrain, i'm not really sure what the big deal is. his car rides like a go-kart and requires premium to get the full advertised hp. the exterior has been massaged enough over the past few years that it now looks fairly well integrated...but, i still don't understand the cache' associated with said car...
i always get a kick out of people associating any quality/perceived quality increase in chrysler vehicles as being solely attributed to daimler. almost all of what's out there now and to be released soon was well on its way before daimler tookover chrysler. i'm sure daimler has brought some good ideas to the relationship, but it was definitely not a one way street.
i must admit i'm also wondering about the move to rwd. it prolly makes sense in the case of the 300m and maybe even concorde, but not sure about the intrepid. i read somewhere that dc is going to push all the lx cars upmarket in price and options. seems to me that they'd wanna keep some models at least close to the price of the taurus, camry and accord, etc. especially now that the camry is getting ever closer in size to the current lh cars and i'm sure the next accord will also be larger than it currently is. will be quite interesting to see where they go with the lx cars...!
I think Chrysler will keep the Intrepid to compete with the Taurus and the Malibu. Especially now that they changed the Concorde/LHS.
300michael I can only speak from personal experience, of all the cars I have owned the Decrepid Intrepid was by far the worse. The only time it met my expectations is before I drove it from the dealership yard.
I think it's interesting that, once upon a time, cars like the Superbird and Daytona were offered to the public, because to be able to be raced, it had to be based on a production car. So if they wanted to use that nose and wing, they had to offer it on a production car. Too bad that doesn't hold true today...I wouldn't mind having a V-8, RWD, 2-door Intrepid!
"One pleasant surprise when driving the Civic Hybrid was how quiet it remained inside the cabin. While sitting in the backseat, it was possible to hear people in the front conversing in normal voices without asking them to turn their heads. The low decibel level is due to additional insulation under the car, along with underside panels that make it more aerodynamic."
For the rest of the story see "edmunds" home page.
I was recently shopping, in the used car market, for a second car for my wife. Based on my wife's choices, I test drove the Accord, Mazda 626 and Camry. I ended up buying the 2000 626.
I hated the accord's transmission. I drove 2-3 accords and found every one of them to be jerky when shifting. The Accord might have a reputation to run forever but the ride is a punishment when compared to the Concorde. I found the Concorde to be much more refined than the Accord. The Camry was smoother than the accord but I could not get the price and color combination. Also, the horror stories in the Camry forums about the engine sludge made me cautious. So ended up with the 626, not that they don't have horror stories but I got a good deal on the price.
After the test drives I have found new reasons to appreciate the Concorde. I find the Concorde to be more stable and comfortable than any of the above mentioned cars. Contrary to what many reviewers say, I like the design/layout of the light/wipers/parkingbrake controls on the Concorde better than the Accord/Camry/626.
If you have a need to compare the Intrepid to the hybrid Civic - or any other vehicle - please go to our Comparisons board.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
As for course or rough roads, yeah, it is kind of a constant rumble booming through the interior. I think your 2 best bets are to 1)Get rid of the noisy tires and 2)Invest in some sound insulation, both sheeting and foam.
Oh yeah, we tend to have a lot of rattles too. It's odd, but I haven't heard many lately though? I think a MSN Carpoint review title I read sums it up best: "Noise on Wheels!"
Other than a speaker which was bad out of the factory, the Intrepid has been the most trouble free new car any of my family has had in a while (4 Explorers, 1 Expedition, 2 Grand Marquis, 1 Windstar, and a Chevy Malibu) over the past 8 years.
By the way I prefer Coke over Pepsi, and Miller Lite is better because it tastes greater more than I find it less filling.
So no, the car hasn't been perfect. But overall I'd say it's been pretty damn good. I'm taking a trip to Texas in about 3 weeks, so I guess that'll be a true test of the car's endurance!
before i bought the '00 intrepid i test drove a honda accord coupe. i was simply amazed at how noisy it was. but interestingly enough, when you read an accord article in a car mag, noise is rarely mentioned. anyhoo, i never said the intrepid was the quietest car out there. but imo it is certainly not objectionable. if dc decides to bump the cars up in stature with the next redesign, i'm sure the noise levels will drop even further...except of course for the awesome sound that the hemi will produce as it blows other cars off the road!!! especially overpriced foreign jobs...
If one did compare the Civic to an Intrepid it would be like comparing apples to oranges or maybe better described as comparing apples to lemons.
Some poor souls will even purchase a truck to better enable them to make the statement their Intrepid was "normal" when it came to road noise, how ironic.
When the lights turned green, I drove my Concorde slowly and surely ahead while the Avalon spun in the snow for 3 seconds then drifted to the side before he caught up with me at the next traffic lights.
This happened again and when he caught up with me at the next lights he was grinning stupidly at me.
Is your lexus any better ? Are you not worried about the engine sludge that is bothering those guys in the Camry forums, in the maintenance & repair section, considering you have the same engine ?
As far as the Civic goes, my girlfriend's 99 Civic LX and my sister's 99 Accord EX 4 cylinder are both noisier than my Intrepid, other than the tire noise. Actually, I was surprised how noisy the engine in the Accord actually is.
The Civic is a nice commuter car, but the seats are terribly uncomfortable, the ride is stiff, and it is too narrow. When she and I go anywhere, I always drive by both party's choice.
In the article, the Civic was a hybird, when running on electric, the gas engine is shut off.
I have keyless entry on my 2000, and I have not had problems with it yet. Of course, I have only 19,000 miles on it.
I have to say, I did buy an extended warranty when I got the car, but obviously have never had to use it yet.