First off, the Bose system in my 2001 S500 (same as in this year's) is not as great as someone here suggested. It is not better sounding than the ML or base system in the LS430. The brief experience with the ML has left me with the impression that it is very clean and exhibits low distortion. Not that difference from listening to my Stax Lambda headphones with an electrostatic amp. The sound wasn't exaggerated in any way, so depending on the source, bass or midrange emphasis just isn't there. Garbage in, garbage out. I played Jazz at the Pawnshop, and I could easily place the bass and piano near the front of the car, and accompanying horns around the back; where each were supposed to be.
In terms of the ML sound versus the base Nakamichi system. I am not sure if the ML was that much more transparent.
First off, the Bose system in my 2001 S500 (same as in this year's) is not as great as someone here suggested. It is not better sounding than the ML or base system in the LS430. The brief experience with the ML has left me with the impression that it is very clean and exhibits low distortion. Not that difference from listening to my Stax Lambda headphones with an electrostatic amp. The sound wasn't exaggerated in any way, so depending on the source, bass or midrange emphasis just isn't there. Garbage in, garbage out. I played Jazz at the Pawnshop, and I could easily place the bass and piano near the front of the car, and accompanying horns around the back; where each were supposed to be.
In terms of the ML sound versus the base Nakamichi system. I am not sure if the ML was that much more transparent.
I would be disappointed too if I had a speaker blow after 6 mos, but that has little to do with the quality of the ML's sound reproduction. Things break. As reliable as the LS is generally, you will find individuals who have had fuel pumps or shocks or any one of a thousand different parts replaced.
Yes, but why a malfunction that suggests, not proves mind you, but suggests, that the speakers are built to a cheaper standard than what the amplifier dishes out. Hence the disappointment is not over a blown speaker, but more that the aura of excellent engineering is marred by the same "built to a price" mentality as many other marques. And coming on top of all the other issues I've had, I will not be quick to exclude other makes when I look for a replacement in due course.
When working, it sounded great.
I am not saying the LS is a bad car by any means. I enjoy driving it every day.
Since Lexus has by far the best quality ratings, it goes downhill from there. Mercedes isn't even in the top 5, so spending even more money will not get more quality. It will get that silver star on the hood though. :-) Maybe BMW 7 series. Although they are far more noisy...
I agree with your statements. The LS is not perfect, but it still was and is good enough for me to spend my money on. I tried several competitors, and felt that the LS was a better car.
I also continue to feel fairly strongly that once all these issues are dealt with, the car will settle down to a long service life.
I'll take a blown speaker and bad tires over a gremlin laden electrical system or transmission failure any day!
An automotive passenger cabin is far from the idea place to reproduce music of any sort. You can spend all the money you want on engineering design and implementation and any good quality home system will still sound better.
Blown speaker...
In the electronics industry we have something known as infant failure, regardless of how much care we take in the design, production and implementation, and small number of components will still fail during the "break-in period.
Your blown speaker may not have been the result of poor design/selection at all.
Interesting dialog on the sound system. For what it's worth, I've got an 02 Custom Pkg and have had no problems with the sound...and I listen (at times) to loud music...rock (Led Zep, Matchbox 20) and even club music with deep base. It's always sounded very clean & crisp with great highs and base responses. No rattles or distortions. The LS has been the most trouble free car I've ever owned.
Well, this must be that incentive someone mentioned; as I had calls today from 2 dealers offering the ultra at under 64K and 63K. Great deals. The strategy is to buy it before it runs out. There has to be a way to check for manufactured VIN's.
You are right on the money. Maybe in other areas you can wait it out but its not so easy in our neck of the woods. Ray Catena ran out of the previous generation 2000 LS400's long before the 2001's arrived.
When my ls was new, there was a rattle in the base. I mentioned it to the service dept, and they replaced it. As I was checking it out I turned the base down(or up) as far as it would go. Although I am not all that familiar with audio stuff, IMO the base sort of sounded weak. I re set all the controles to where I thought they should be, and the ML is by far the most clear and enjoyable part of the car to me. The base just does it`s stuff, but the other parts are what makes for the clarity. Tony
I am taking delivery of a 2003 LS430 next week. While I realize not XM/Sirius ready, has anyone added XM or Sirius? I had heard there might be an Alpine Sirius system that worked pretty well. Would really appreciate details on what model to purchase.... and whether it effects the ML sound that comes out of radio.
I asked about XM too on my 2003 LS430, and there is some add on component into the pre-amp section of the ML. Cost was $500. They could not assure 100% compatibility. From the audio issues I hear here, I decided against putting this non-factory add on to my LS430 at this time.....
I am located outside of Philadelphia (purchased at Wilkie Lexus in Haverford). I was quoted an Alpine Sirius system installed for $450. What were the "audio issues" you are referencing on this site (I could not find much when I did a search).
Not any specific issue pretaining to XM, but since there could be issues from the base ML system (vcheng, etc..); I did not wise to have Lexus say that I modified their system and therefore do not want to service it. EVEN when the input into the pre-amp is not altering the ML core in any way; as I was told.
PS. My LS430 will be silver/black; what will yours be?
On my 2002 LS430 I have about 4 windshield scratches each about 1" long (deep enough to catch fingernail) on drivers side. They bother me, but am somewhat reluctant to have new windshield installed because of fear of breaking the factory seal (wind noise) and potential problems with rain sensor and GPS antenna (is it installed behind the rear view mirror?). I realize that a good shop should be able to handle this, but am looking to hear from others who have replaced their windshields. One shop that I contacted discouraged me from trying to polish out the scratches.
If you have that done let the Lexus service department do it. I knew someone who got into a minor accident that damaged the windshield and they replaced it perfectly for him. It may be more expensive but you stay within your warranty if they do it. As well - if something goes wrong you know they will get it fixed as they are on the hook. They will have stronger language in their contracts with repair shops then you'll ever get in a one page agreement with one.
1. My dealer quoted $800 to replace the windshield. I have a long crack running several inches along the very bottom of the windshield. If you didn't know it was there, you wouldn't see it. Of course, I know its there, and it bugs me. I haven't done it yet, but I may have to for my own sanity. Remember, the LS glass is treated so that the water beads up and rolls off; an aftermarket windshield -- even if it is otherwise perfect -- won't have that treatment.
2. I am surprised, a little skeptical, and other wise delighted at davidscharlton's report that someone told him there were pre-amp-level inputs on the ML. I recall asking this question of ML in 2001 and was told there were not. If there are (maybe they were added at a later date), you would have to have an "aux" function on the head unit or would have to add an external routing device so that the amp wasn't receiving signals, e.g., from both the CD and the XM at the same time.
FWIW, I posted a while back that I asked ML whether the 04 LS would have XM or Sirius; they gave a non-answer that suggested STRONGLY that the ML would add this feature. Might make me consider trading early . . . .
I forgot to add: the Alpine (and other) add-on XM radios will permit you to receive some of the benefit of XM (more or less nationwide commercial free (mostly) access to much greater variety of music than is available over the air).
But it will have 2 significant drawbacks: (1) the head unit has to be placed somewhere, and I have yet to find a good unused location for it in my LS. (2) More importantly, the sonic quality of the digital signal will be significantly degraded. These systems (unless there are pre-amp level inputs - see my other post) broadcast an FM signal from the XM receiver to the car radio and reproduce the signal like any other FM signal. While the XM likely would sound somewhat better than the run-of-the-mill FM station (because it will not have its signal processed and compressed to the same degree) it will offer nothing like the CD-quality XM was intended to deliver. Something to think about.
Windshield replacement EXPERTS replaced my RX300 windshield for less than $300. If your Lexus dealer had good sense s/he would sub it out to an expert, thus twice the price.
IF you can't stand it; replace it. If you are leasing your Lexus, you'll have to replace it before returning it; as any crack or noticeable scratch on the windshield is not considered normal wear and tear.
I had my final inspection on my 2001 S500 today. The inspector told me a handful on Mercedes, Lexus, and other premium makes. I wish I had this information before my 3 year Mercedes lease.
Sorry guys; I had to tease a little, since I thought I had been in the dark for so long.
First off the bat; you do not have to worry too much about dings and tiny dents; unless major paint peels are involved. So don't bother finding a safe parking spot or doing that paint touch up if you lease.
Here are the facts from the inspector: 1) For Mercedes leases, any ding or small dent that can be covered with a credit card is considered normal wear and tear. This is amazing; as we know how big a credit card is.
2) Scratches to wheels are viewed the same way 3) Wear of leather interiors is normal unless a major cut is obvious 4) Small nicks and abrasions on windshield is fine; unless they are more than an inch wide. Holes that cannot be filled with special windshield chemical cures have to be replaced. 5) Don't worry about slight discoloration of dashboard due to sun.
1) For Lexus leases, you are allowed 3 dings or minor dents on any individual panel/section 2) Lexus depreciates a lot more; (we all knows this!) 3) Some Lexus dealers will be more picky than others on condition; so go with the larger dealers (not sure if this is true....)
1) All makes, the tires should be in good shape; so color it with armour all before inspection even if it is worn.
I had the choice of Lexus glass for another $50 or aftermarket, I chose the aftermarket. Probably the same manufacturer anyway, just private labelling.
Just happened to see a full page ad in the LA Times main section today congratulating all the US dealers for being selected as a "Maybach Studio". There were about 60 of them nation-wide. If anyone has an extra $300K+ in their wallets, you can be one of the first on your block.
I thought the Maybach looked a lot nicer than the Rolls. The Maybach was sleek looking. The new Rolls is about attractive as a Bradley fighting vehicle.
If I had that much throwaway money. I would buy a Porsche Turbo for the Hamptons, a S55 for the country clubs, and a Lexus LS430 for everyday use. And still have enough left for buying gas for these vehicles for years.
Still not here yet. But I did check with Lexus headquarters that the car was built in the Tahara Plant in Japan in May 2003. So how long is the boat ride?
According to JP Power, the Tahara Plant has a quality score of 63 PP100; meaning 63 problems per 100 cars. Still high, if you ask me. But that's the lowest anywhere.
I got a brand new one with 500 miles on it as a loaner for my LS430 (50k mile check and running perfectly). The new suv is a marked improvement over the old. Quieter, smmother ride with a lot more space in the rear seat. Interior is beautiful with the same wood you get in the LS. Power is up but could have been taken up a notch more for quicker highway acceleration. But remember I'm used to LS430 V8 power. Nonethess it's easy to see why Lexus will sell a ton of these. It has a lux sedan ride coupled with the higher elevation of an suv but it's easy to get in/out and you have AWD for when you need it. You completely forget you're in an SUV and you know your not in a station wagon plus you get car like excellent handling. Lexus hit the mark with this crossover.
wwest - if you like the old RX you're gong to love the new one.
Planning on buying one before the snow flies but meantime will buy the shop manuals to figure out how to extend the duty cycle of the ABS/BA/VSC/Trac/AWD pumpmotor in an emergency.
Easier to replace a burned out pumpmotor than calling for a tow.
I have a 2001 Ultra and had the windshield replaced a year ago due to a large stone chip in my line of sight. The dealer ordered the Lexus windshield and had an independent install it. I couldn't find any problems in the installation - no noise, etc. I felt we shouldn't skimp on parts on a $70M car.
Leonard, I was really disappointed to read the Edmunds review which suggested that the new RX has one inch LESS driver headroom than the predecessor (although it is bigger in every other dimension). Can you confirm this? I like my wife's RX, and would be inclined to buy one, but my head is almost on the ceiling as it is. Also, the seat is too shallow on her car (and it appears to be on the GX as well). The price I pay for being 6'2"!
I'm 6ft. and never gave the headroom a second of thought so there must have been plenty of it. I never felt cramped in any way behind the wheel. The new RX felt much roomier to me than the prior model and it rode more luxuriously - quiet and smooth. I got in the back seat to check the leg room and with my seat pretty far back (maybe all the way) I had plenty of legroom as well. I do wish the driver seat had the extenders the LS has. Maybe it does on certain optioned models but I didn't check.
My wife loves everything about it except the rear lights. She wants one. But I have to have something with three rows of seats and I'm also not going without an LS. So Neil my SC dreams may have just died. Starting to look like GX,RX and LS for me in 2004. I'll still need three cars for at least another few years. After last years copious snows I want at least two awd vehicles.
Thanks for the report Leonard. I will stop by the dealer and check it out
That Link update suggests that you might be able to cut off the "Link is active" recording in the future. If they add that functionality, I may even get link on my next car. I just could not imagine listening to that lady every time I started up
The announcement every time the car is started is annoying, but less so since I found the volume control for it and made it closer to a whisper than a shout.
Pressing the button on the touch screen every time the car is started to acknowledge the dangers of driving with a nav system, now *that* is annoying. Not very impressive to passengers, either. I'd pay extra to make that stop.
To upgrade my hard disk-based Nav in my '99 LS to current, would that mean I get a DVD version of the '03 release, or a simple hard disk update to existing install ?
Anyone know what to expect ?
Thx
ps: wwest. Any ideas on turning off the "acknowledge" option in the '98 - '00 Nav setup ?
Interesting tidbit on the Nav warning... does this trick work on the RX300 also... will it affect functionality? Also, (please pardon the laziness) where exactly is the Nav DVD box? I am sure there are THOUSANDS of people out there that want to get rid of that over protective message. This is the first time I hear of such an easy "fix." Again, thanks
Opening the DVD door disables the nav system COMPLETELY. If you want to make it operational again you must close the door, and then it takes a bit of a while to reboot.
The one in the 01 RX300 is in the spare tire storage area just to the right of the jack.
Personally I distrust it so much that I use it very rarely so having the door open most of the time isn't really a bother.
Whew, I thought there was an easy way out of that annoying message -- that would have been my candidate for "post of the year!" Oh well, at least maybe the Lexus (and most other manufacturer) lawyers are listening and will stop trying to "warn" us to death.
Comments
In terms of the ML sound versus the base Nakamichi system. I am not sure if the ML was that much more transparent.
The Nakamichi system was very good too, and I am sure that using the ML name had more to do with marketing rather than any spectacular sonic advance.
In terms of the ML sound versus the base Nakamichi system. I am not sure if the ML was that much more transparent.
How did it sound when it was working?
When working, it sounded great.
I am not saying the LS is a bad car by any means. I enjoy driving it every day.
I also continue to feel fairly strongly that once all these issues are dealt with, the car will settle down to a long service life.
I'll take a blown speaker and bad tires over a gremlin laden electrical system or transmission failure any day!
Blown speaker...
In the electronics industry we have something known as infant failure, regardless of how much care we take in the design, production and implementation, and small number of components will still fail during the "break-in period.
Your blown speaker may not have been the result of poor design/selection at all.
Would really appreciate details on what model to purchase.... and whether it effects the ML sound that comes out of radio.
I asked about XM too on my 2003 LS430, and there is some add on component into the pre-amp section of the ML. Cost was $500. They could not assure 100% compatibility. From the audio issues I hear here, I decided against putting this non-factory add on to my LS430 at this time.....
BTW, where are you located?
I am located outside of Philadelphia (purchased at Wilkie Lexus in Haverford). I was quoted an Alpine Sirius system installed for $450. What were the "audio issues" you are referencing on this site (I could not find much when I did a search).
Dave
PS. My LS430 will be silver/black; what will yours be?
2. I am surprised, a little skeptical, and other wise delighted at davidscharlton's report that someone told him there were pre-amp-level inputs on the ML. I recall asking this question of ML in 2001 and was told there were not. If there are (maybe they were added at a later date), you would have to have an "aux" function on the head unit or would have to add an external routing device so that the amp wasn't receiving signals, e.g., from both the CD and the XM at the same time.
FWIW, I posted a while back that I asked ML whether the 04 LS would have XM or Sirius; they gave a non-answer that suggested STRONGLY that the ML would add this feature. Might make me consider trading early . . . .
But it will have 2 significant drawbacks: (1) the head unit has to be placed somewhere, and I have yet to find a good unused location for it in my LS. (2) More importantly, the sonic quality of the digital signal will be significantly degraded. These systems (unless there are pre-amp level inputs - see my other post) broadcast an FM signal from the XM receiver to the car radio and reproduce the signal like any other FM signal. While the XM likely would sound somewhat better than the run-of-the-mill FM station (because it will not have its signal processed and compressed to the same degree) it will offer nothing like the CD-quality XM was intended to deliver. Something to think about.
I had my final inspection on my 2001 S500 today. The inspector told me a handful on Mercedes, Lexus, and other premium makes. I wish I had this information before my 3 year Mercedes lease.
Thanks
I don't lease, so am not worried about that problem. I am interested in hearing what the inspector told paulchiu.
First off the bat; you do not have to worry too much about dings and tiny dents; unless major paint peels are involved. So don't bother finding a safe parking spot or doing that paint touch up if you lease.
Here are the facts from the inspector:
1) For Mercedes leases, any ding or small dent that can be covered with a credit card is considered normal wear and tear. This is amazing; as we know how big a credit card is.
2) Scratches to wheels are viewed the same way
3) Wear of leather interiors is normal unless a major cut is obvious
4) Small nicks and abrasions on windshield is fine; unless they are more than an inch wide. Holes that cannot be filled with special windshield chemical cures have to be replaced.
5) Don't worry about slight discoloration of dashboard due to sun.
1) For Lexus leases, you are allowed 3 dings or minor dents on any individual panel/section
2) Lexus depreciates a lot more; (we all knows this!)
3) Some Lexus dealers will be more picky than others on condition; so go with the larger dealers
(not sure if this is true....)
1) All makes, the tires should be in good shape; so color it with armour all before inspection even if it is worn.
Glass is glass...
Despite all of its iritations; it's a beauty. I will miss it.
http://www.pbase.com/image/18266813
Will let you know how it goes....
I thought the Maybach looked a lot nicer than the Rolls. The Maybach was sleek looking. The new Rolls is about attractive as a Bradley fighting vehicle.
According to JP Power, the Tahara Plant has a quality score of 63 PP100; meaning 63 problems per 100 cars. Still high, if you ask me. But that's the lowest anywhere.
wwest - if you like the old RX you're gong to love the new one.
Easier to replace a burned out pumpmotor than calling for a tow.
My wife loves everything about it except the rear lights. She wants one. But I have to have something with three rows of seats and I'm also not going without an LS. So Neil my SC dreams may have just died. Starting to look like GX,RX and LS for me in 2004. I'll still need three cars for at least another few years. After last years copious snows I want at least two awd vehicles.
Don't worry about the RX - you'll love it.
http://www.dustbird.com/lexus/lexuslink.jpg
should I assume my new LS430 will have this feature already?
That Link update suggests that you might be able to cut off the "Link is active" recording in the future. If they add that functionality, I may even get link on my next car. I just could not imagine listening to that lady every time I started up
Pressing the button on the touch screen every time the car is started to acknowledge the dangers of driving with a nav system, now *that* is annoying. Not very impressive to passengers, either. I'd pay extra to make that stop.
Sean
And you owe me $200.
To upgrade my hard disk-based Nav in my '99 LS to current, would that mean I get a DVD version of the '03 release, or a simple hard disk update to existing install ?
Anyone know what to expect ?
Thx
ps: wwest. Any ideas on turning off the "acknowledge" option in the '98 - '00 Nav setup ?
Opening the DVD door disables the nav system COMPLETELY. If you want to make it operational again you must close the door, and then it takes a bit of a while to reboot.
The one in the 01 RX300 is in the spare tire storage area just to the right of the jack.
Personally I distrust it so much that I use it very rarely so having the door open most of the time isn't really a bother.