Anonymous, so you're saying there's not a HUGE difference between a BMW and, say, a Dodge Neon? Of course cars can be within the same class and still be entirely different. Also, I could not get leather & heated seats in the Protege
bkm119, you might also check the Smart Shopper boards.
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Here in Virginia we don't NEED heated seats. Geesh, it's gonna be 97 here today anyway. And in the winter, my butt does a pretty good job of heating my seat. The Protege DOES have air ducts for the rear seat passengers' feet under the front seats (does the Jetta? Just asking) and the heat coming from them may serve to warm the front seats a little. But I don't really understand the whole heated seats concept anyway -- they don't turn on until you've sat down and started the car, and by that time your own body heat has warmed the seat cushion. What's the point?
And leather is a personal choice. I don't prefer it because of Virginia's aforementioned heat anyway. Would make getting in my car just like getting in my old 1978 Corolla with black vinyl seats -- YEEOOOWWWWW!!!! Also, I'm a big guy and I sweat a lot. I like the ventilation that cloth upholstery offers over even "vented" leather. And my legs don't stick to cloth upholstery.
BTW, leather is now available on the Protege5.
Like I said, keep your driving experience. I'll keep enjoying the hell out of my third Protege. I wouldn't keep buying them if they weren't great cars that ARE fun to drive too.
Well, up here in the Great White North, I've appreciated heated seats a few times in the early morning. You know how you have to wait a few minutes for the car to get blowing hot air when you first start the car, well, heated seats get hot right away (or at least PDQ). I kinda like them and will probably have them in my next car.
That said, I don't think my next car will be a Jetta. I really like the interiors (sans rattles), but when you get into the Jetta's upper price range, I PERSONALLY feel that there are better cars.
"Anonymous, so you're saying there's not a HUGE difference between a BMW and, say, a Dodge Neon?"
Yeah, there is a huge difference between those two cars. Basically, what you are saying is that comparing the Jetta to a Protege is like comparing a 3 series to a Neon. Gimme a break! You HAVE to be kidding! Besides the very well executed luxury interior, rear beam axle, small back seat, and choice of engines with the Jetta, I don't see a huge difference between the Jetta and Protege. I don't see how leather and heated seats makes the Jetta "entirely" different from the Protege.
i just called a few dealers. looking at a silver cabrio gls/gray top/gray interior. VW is still offering the 4.5% for 60 months for July, but no cash back incentives. i honestly can't remember when they have ever offered cash.
I need them in Northern Virginia (when I lived there, and visit my parents there). It does get cold enough in Northern Virginia. And I really need them in the Poconos.
Own a car with heated seats, and you'll probably won't get another car without them, unless one of those people that let the car run 10 minutes before getting in.
It's also nice if you want to keep your body warm, yet run a cool interior temperature, which some people prefer.
Again, heated seats is a personal preference....like many here, after experiencing them in cold, or very cold days....can't go back.
Have you seen their contender for the upscale market, the Passat W8? They're asking almost $40,000 for it, LOL! I think they're trying to move their image upscale, but hey -- they're still Volkswagen, makers of the Thing, the Fox (now was THAT car upscale?) the Rabbit, the smallest pickup truck ever made, etc. I don't think they're gonna sell many $40,000 Volkswagens because of just that -- the name Volkswagen. It's still synonymous with "economy car" -- hell, the name even means "people's car." People looking to sink 40 grand on a luxury car are going to look at names like Lexus, Infiniti, Lincoln, etc. Same reason, in reverse, that Ford just pulled the Lincoln Blackwood pickup truck off the assembly line after the shortest production run of an American vehicle in history: People weren't buying them because the name Lincoln is not synonymous with pickup trucks. And Volkswagen, even though they're starting to move their product upscale, is still seen by many as an economy car.
i agree, and 95% of the world agrees with you as well. the Jetta is a totally different car than the Protege. now, for entry level economy cars, it is hard to beat the Protege, unless an Elantra is in the picture, but the Jetta is miles ahead. even in base Jetta GL form. a fact of life. yes, they both have four wheels, whimpy four cylinders, but the Jetta has 8 airbags, ABS standard, 8 speaker stereo, crash test scores, better interior, better looks, better resale, better warrranty, and a feeling like you didn't "settle"...
the Protege has the better price, (not always), more room, and some say better handling.
anyone know about sales figures for Jetta/vs/Protege in the U.S. for any given month?
And sorry, I don't see the need for seat heaters. My back sweats enough as is, since I'm a "big and tall" guy. Yes, it's a personal choice. I'm not here telling you that since I don't like it, nobody should have it. That's not my point. My point is, I don't think a car's offering heated seats and leather as options makes it a "totally different car" than one IN THE SAME CLASS that doesn't. Heck, my Protege came standard with VICS (Variable Intake Control System), a digital odometer with TWO trip odometers, fading-out interior light, glow-in-the-dark interior emergency trunk-release handle, rear seat heating ducts and more interior room than a Jetta. At just a touch over $15,000 in ES (top line) trim. Not bad, eh? I don't think the Jetta offers that much more for the premium you have to pay to own one.
Meade
P.S. 39,000 miles on the Protege; no problems. No dash rattles either.
anonymous02: So would you own a Kia Rio or Spectra instead of a Protege?
protegextwo: The VW spec is 87 lb-ft for the lug nuts. Much higher than Toyota's 60 lb-ft spec. So the lug nuts tightness is not a defect, if CR bothered with checking the owner's manual of the Jetta wagon.
Ummm...in case you haven't noticed, the majority of the World's population are in developing nations (ie. India and China). I'm sure they could give 2 monkey craps about the Jetta being the same or different than the Protege.
I know you weren't being literal, but take care what you write, especially when you're making wild statistical claims.
They're not bargain basement (Honda/Ford/Mazda) but certainly not BMW/Infiniti/Audi either. VWs are tweener cars. They're relatively affordable and feature-packed with things not seen on the basic makes. Does the Prot/Civic/Focus come with the same Standard materials? ASR? Standard ABS? Standard 6+ airbags? Soft-touch materials and silicon-dampened parts? No. How about power AND torque? A 1.8T puts out 180 HP, a VR6 is at 200. Again, no.
People may not like the look of VWs or they may find the handling not up to BMW precision but when most get into a leather-lined 20k Jetta 1.8T they exclaim how upscale the car is. Heck, my Jetta doesn't even have leather (it's got the GTI upholstery) yet most people tell me they think it's a darn nice car (and they know I hate mine).
The 1.8T, safety features and the interior are what sold me. Had Subaru put better materials in the WRX I'd own one right now. But I spend all my time driving inside the car, so I wanted a cabin that felt like more than the cost.
Interesting out of all the cars in the class, we're arguing about the two best ones? Maybe we need to face facts and call a truce here.
Meade
P.S. Blueguy response: Somehow the Protege's non-silicone-dampened parts seem to hold up better. I don't see complaints about things like rattles, broken window regulators and glove box handles showing up in the Protege Problems discussion. Yes, side air bags and ABS are available -- they're extras, but pay for them and you still come in under the price of a Jetta. Soft-touch materials? Yep. And the Jetta may offer the DRIVER comfort, but we know from Paul's reviews that the driver's comfort comes at the expense of the rear seat passengers. The Protege has a very roomy back seat with plenty of leg room for all.
Oh -- and the Protege will be offered with a turbo next year.
-Dual SRS front & side airbags -Side Curtain Airbags -Cruise Control -Power Windows (Auto-down and up for front windows with pinch protection) -Power Locks -Heated Mirrors (standard on the base GL also) -Full velour interior (even I hate the velour) including the A and B pillars and ceiling. -ABS -AM/FM Stereo with CD and tape player -8 speaker stereo (component speaker system) -Fading interior light -Security system with Imbolizer -Full Size spare tire (trust me, it's a great feature instead of the 50 mph, 100 mile max range of donut) -Tilt and telescoping steering column
That's what you get for $16,600. Not bad price. Then you add options, such as a TDI motor or a 1.8T motor, sunroof, alloy wheels, heated seats, etc...
If you don't like the Jetta....fine, quit dogging us about it. It doesn't meet your tastes.....it apparently has met many of our tastes. You can probably get the same features on a Hyundai or Kia as your Protege....for less money!!! Consumer Reports has rated the new Elantra pretty good as of late.
The VICS, isn't new technology to be raving over. Toyota has been using that technology since the 80's (TVIS, Toyota Variable Induction System).
yes, they are both good cars. one is at the bottom level of economy car, one is at the top.
yes, the Jetta is more expensive. but why not pay more for more car, if you can swing it? why is that such a bad thing? in life, on the news, and in here, it is always the people with the cheaper car, that are trying to diss the more expensive. ALWAYS. we all know why that is. lets say it together. JEALOUSY. ENVY.
the fact is, if the Jetta 1.8T cost the same as the Protege ES, guess which car people would buy? The Jetta. all of the sudden the extra room and so called better handling wouldn't be mentioned anymore.
Pinch protection was originally featured on the luxury makes, Mercedes, then Lexus.
What is does, if a finger or a child's head is in the way of the window as it is being raised, with enough force down on the window, the window will stop going up, and retract down a few inches, so that you don't chop someone's finger off or accidentally kill someone.
The power window safety controversy was a big issue for Consumer Reports a while back, when Power Windows began popularized in more affordable cars.
"it is always the people with the cheaper car, that are trying to diss the more expensive. ALWAYS. we all know why that is. lets say it together. JEALOUSY. ENVY."
I can honestly tell you that I am not jealous. You want the truth? I'm not sure you can handle it, but here it goes. To me, the Jetta board is similiar to gawking at a bad car accident. I like to read about all of the problems that I potentially avoided. I don't wish for people to have problems, but they are interesting. Although people deny that they do this, it is part of human nature. As much as I think you live on another planet, you make this board interesting also because you have such strong feelings about the Jetta. To me, some of the things you say are so ridiculous and sometimes blasphemous that they are entertaining.
Jetta is better than Protege in every way possible. I had to bring myself down to the level of a Protege owner with Jetta envy to even consider comparing the wonderful Jetta with the lowly Protege. I can not imagine owning a Protege and having so much jealousy that I had to hang out on the Jetta topic and try to discredit the Jetta in order to justify my Protege purchase. Thank goodness I saw through the tinny cheapness of the pseudo Ford Protege and purchased the Jetta. A wonderful rattle free Jetta with properly torqued lug nuts. ROTFLMAO!
Just kidding all of you Protege owners. I'm sure if I want to discuss the Protege you would welcome me to the Protege topic. Is it possible you can leave the Protege discussion in the Protege topic?
The Protege also has overload-protected windshield wipers. If they're frozen to the windshield and you turn them on, a safety feature turns the power to the motor off for a few moments so the motors won't burn up or a fuse doesn't blow. Another feature I found out about by accident.
I totaled a 1992 Protege because of its bald, short-life Bridgestone Potenza tires. I hydroplaned into the rear of a stopped Volvo station wagon (aka "brick wall") doing about 45 mph. I walked out of it. Talk about crash test ratings all you want; I'm probably one of the few people here who chose his current vehicle based on real-life, personal experience of its crashworthiness.
And btw, I didn't bring up the Protege vs. Jetta stuff. I was lurking and saw a few of you slamming the Protege -- which I wouldn't consider "bottom of the line entry level," by the way -- ever heard of Accent, Rio, Lanos, Echo, Cavalier, Esteem, Swift, Metro, etc.? Have you guys actually DRIVEN a Protege, preferably an ES? For the record, I DID drive a Golf GTS prior to my purchase in May 2000.
... in repeat purchases. I've already seen a couple of you Jetta owners swear this will be the last VW you'll ever own.
I was so enamored with how my '92 Protege drove, handled, and saved my freakin' life that I went out and replaced it with another one that went 83,000 miles without one single problem. That further reinforced my satisfaction with the car that I bought a 2000 ES, that has now gone 39,000 trouble-free miles. When my wife needed to replace her car in January, it was a no-brainer. Our driveway now has a 2000 Protege ES and a 2002 Protege5 parked in it. We're repeat customers again and again because these cars have proven themselves to us. No Consumer Reports, no Edmunds Top Picks. We have more than 10 years of personal experience with four of them now.
Similarly, Larry (protegextwo) has two Proteges right now. At our last Mid-Atlantic Protege Picnic meet, we met another husband-and-wife Protege duo. (Funny that more than 20 people would drive hundreds of miles to a state park in the Virginia mountains -- some from as far away as New York and Connecticut; one actually paid to FLY in from Chicago) to hang out with other owners of this crappy little "entry level" car, huh?)
Let me know when you're on your fourth trouble-free Jetta, and then we'll talk about warranties, reliability and pride of ownership.
>>I totaled a 1992 Protege because of its bald, short-life Bridgestone Potenza tires. I hydroplaned into the rear of a stopped Volvo station wagon (aka "brick wall") doing about 45 mph. I walked out of it. Talk about crash test ratings all you want; I'm probably one of the few people here who chose his current vehicle based on real-life, personal experience of its crashworthiness.<<
Actually, I was t-boned in a 01 Golf 1.8T by a truck doing 40. We walked away without a scratch. The impact didn't even get into the passenger compartment as the platform's superb engineering redirected the force around the passenger compartment. That accident sold me on German cars. A little over a month later I had my Jetta. The engine, the interior and the safety...for the money (I paid a touch over 19k) the Jetta can't be touched by any other compact out there.
BTW, the pro DOES handle great. Too bad it doesn't feel substantial, it lacks standard safety equipment and the interior's not up to what I want.
For repeat purchases...I hope not to buy the same make of car again. I plan on continually moving up. Like I said, the Jetta is a TWEENER car. This is the car you buy before finally getting a real car. I'd prefer a G35 next but I'm also considering scrapping my 01 Jetta for a 99 328i. I'd rather pay $400 a month for a 3 year old Bimmer.
We can compare opinions all day long and they will usually be different. The fact is that when auto reviewers compare Jetta (or GTI) to competitors the VW is #1 most of the time. Lurk all you want, and if you lurk in the Jetta topic you have to understand that Jetta owners are not going to go out of their way to praise cheaper economy cars like Focus or Protege or Hyundai.
I see you at least agree that it's an economy car. Good for you. We're getting somewhere.
Meade
P.S. After reading Paul's experiences, I don't think I'll ever go out of my way to praise a more expensive economy car that has the quality problems of a late-80s Hyundai Excel.
First of all my Jetta is made in Germany so you Jetta Con Queso comment is off the mark. And I would buy a Jetta built in Mexico or Germany. Does not make a difference to me. Secondly I am on my second VW as I own a VW Golf TDI as well as my Jetta TDI. I am very happy with my VWs. Since TDI should last 300,000 miles or more by the time I am ready for my 4th VW you will have had to replace your cheap Protege 8 times. And if I do resell my Jetta then I can count on a much higher percentage of retained value than your Protege will retain.
Yes I driven the Protege. I spent my money on the Golf instead (the thicker sheetmetal is nice also), have I regretted yet? No.
My last two cars where Toyotas. Why I didn't get a Toyota again? The Golf TDI met my tastes and requirements better this time around.
Kirstie, used to drive one, now loves here Jetta, for the different reasons she liked the Protege.
I've driven the Protege, current and past Proteges...didn't meet my tastes....I don't go around telling people that the Protege is a bad car, and point out all of its "flaws" and why the car is a waste of money, on a board dedicated to that car (hence....a term called trolling).
Let's imagine Kirstie going over to the Protege boards (something I don't read, nor care for), and constantly putting down the Protege, and why her Jetta is better than the Protege she traded in. It tends to get pretty annoying rather quick.
Just because someone here thinks the Protege is bottom of the barrel of the economy car class, doesn't mean that's the feeling of the entire consensus of the VW Jetta owners. Address that person and be done with it.
I think you said leather is available for the MP5, so what about the sedan? Nope not available. Doesn't support your argument too much.
Mazda isn't no luxury maker either. They tried it with the "Amanti" label (Mazda's luxury line in Europe)...and failed miserably. The Millenia (originally an Amanti), isn't that spectacular. Time will tell is the Passat W8 and Phaeton will succeed.
I thought we established that the both the Civic and the Subaru Impreza both got the highest ratings possible from the NHTSA (IIRC). I think they can at least match the Jetta in terms of safety.
In fact, the IIHS (www.iihs.gov)rates the Civic over the Jetta. Also, depending on the trim, the Civic 2dr coupe out rates the Jetta w/ SAB (according to the NHTSA at www.nhtsa.dot.gov).
We went over this with Paul a few weeks ago. The better resale value you get with your Jetta will never catch you up to the savings I had with my Protege purchase. You will have wound up spending more out-of-pocket no matter what you do.
Be glad you got a TDI. I know from personal experience with a Saab, and trying to trade it in at 60,000 miles, that a turbocharged car (a) becomes a nightmare after about 50,000 miles, and (b) is very hard to get a fair trade on.
uhhh..TDI is turbocharged. The turbocharger is proven in the TDI application and is not at a high risk of failure at 60,000 miles or 120,000. Diesel will outlast 9 of 10 gasoline engines. Yes VW is more expensive because you get more. Anyone who buys a Jetta has the money to afford a Protege and decided not to. Anyone who is really cheap should consider a Kia and spend even less out of pocket than the Protege.
"...if a finger or a child's head is in the way of the window as it is being raised, with enough force down on the window, the window will stop going up, and retract down a few inches, so that you don't chop someone's finger off or accidentally kill someone."
Who would do this to their kids?
I would call this Darwinism at work. Same goes for the stupid lead paint laws. Who lets their kid gnaw on windowsills? Some idiot does that, and the rest of us have to suffer with peeling, chipped, cracked, fading paint.
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bkm119, you might also check the Smart Shopper boards.
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And leather is a personal choice. I don't prefer it because of Virginia's aforementioned heat anyway. Would make getting in my car just like getting in my old 1978 Corolla with black vinyl seats -- YEEOOOWWWWW!!!! Also, I'm a big guy and I sweat a lot. I like the ventilation that cloth upholstery offers over even "vented" leather. And my legs don't stick to cloth upholstery.
BTW, leather is now available on the Protege5.
Like I said, keep your driving experience. I'll keep enjoying the hell out of my third Protege. I wouldn't keep buying them if they weren't great cars that ARE fun to drive too.
Meade
That said, I don't think my next car will be a Jetta. I really like the interiors (sans rattles), but when you get into the Jetta's upper price range, I PERSONALLY feel that there are better cars.
Yeah, there is a huge difference between those two cars. Basically, what you are saying is that comparing the Jetta to a Protege is like comparing a 3 series to a Neon. Gimme a break! You HAVE to be kidding! Besides the very well executed luxury interior, rear beam axle, small back seat, and choice of engines with the Jetta, I don't see a huge difference between the Jetta and Protege. I don't see how leather and heated seats makes the Jetta "entirely" different from the Protege.
Own a car with heated seats, and you'll probably won't get another car without them, unless one of those people that let the car run 10 minutes before getting in.
It's also nice if you want to keep your body warm, yet run a cool interior temperature, which some people prefer.
Again, heated seats is a personal preference....like many here, after experiencing them in cold, or very cold days....can't go back.
It's also very therapeutic for your back also.
Meade
the Protege has the better price, (not always), more room, and some say better handling.
anyone know about sales figures for Jetta/vs/Protege in the U.S. for any given month?
Mazda often offers cash back
Meade
P.S. 39,000 miles on the Protege; no problems. No dash rattles either.
protegextwo: The VW spec is 87 lb-ft for the lug nuts. Much higher than Toyota's 60 lb-ft spec. So the lug nuts tightness is not a defect, if CR bothered with checking the owner's manual of the Jetta wagon.
I know you weren't being literal, but take care what you write, especially when you're making wild statistical claims.
Come off your soapbox long enough to realize that you own the most expensive economy car out there.
Meade
People may not like the look of VWs or they may find the handling not up to BMW precision but when most get into a leather-lined 20k Jetta 1.8T they exclaim how upscale the car is. Heck, my Jetta doesn't even have leather (it's got the GTI upholstery) yet most people tell me they think it's a darn nice car (and they know I hate mine).
The 1.8T, safety features and the interior are what sold me. Had Subaru put better materials in the WRX I'd own one right now. But I spend all my time driving inside the car, so I wanted a cabin that felt like more than the cost.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/mostwanted/2002/47581/article.html
Interesting out of all the cars in the class, we're arguing about the two best ones? Maybe we need to face facts and call a truce here.
Meade
P.S. Blueguy response: Somehow the Protege's non-silicone-dampened parts seem to hold up better. I don't see complaints about things like rattles, broken window regulators and glove box handles showing up in the Protege Problems discussion. Yes, side air bags and ABS are available -- they're extras, but pay for them and you still come in under the price of a Jetta. Soft-touch materials? Yep. And the Jetta may offer the DRIVER comfort, but we know from Paul's reviews that the driver's comfort comes at the expense of the rear seat passengers. The Protege has a very roomy back seat with plenty of leg room for all.
Oh -- and the Protege will be offered with a turbo next year.
~Carrie
by 8u6hfd
-Dual SRS front & side airbags
-Side Curtain Airbags
-Cruise Control
-Power Windows (Auto-down and up for front windows with pinch protection)
-Power Locks
-Heated Mirrors (standard on the base GL also)
-Full velour interior (even I hate the velour) including the A and B pillars and ceiling.
-ABS
-AM/FM Stereo with CD and tape player
-8 speaker stereo (component speaker system)
-Fading interior light
-Security system with Imbolizer
-Full Size spare tire (trust me, it's a great feature instead of the 50 mph, 100 mile max range of donut)
-Tilt and telescoping steering column
That's what you get for $16,600. Not bad price. Then you add options, such as a TDI motor or a 1.8T motor, sunroof, alloy wheels, heated seats, etc...
If you don't like the Jetta....fine, quit dogging us about it. It doesn't meet your tastes.....it apparently has met many of our tastes. You can probably get the same features on a Hyundai or Kia as your Protege....for less money!!! Consumer Reports has rated the new Elantra pretty good as of late.
The VICS, isn't new technology to be raving over. Toyota has been using that technology since the 80's (TVIS, Toyota Variable Induction System).
yes, they are both good cars. one is at the bottom level of economy car, one is at the top.
yes, the Jetta is more expensive. but why not pay more for more car, if you can swing it? why is that such a bad thing? in life, on the news, and in here, it is always the people with the cheaper car, that are trying to diss the more expensive. ALWAYS. we all know why that is. lets say it together. JEALOUSY. ENVY.
the fact is, if the Jetta 1.8T cost the same as the Protege ES, guess which car people would buy? The Jetta. all of the sudden the extra room and so called better handling wouldn't be mentioned anymore.
by CR 8/02
protegextwo: So the lug nuts tightness is not a defect, if CR bothered with checking the owner's manual of the Jetta wagon.
by 8u6hfd
Perhaps, Paul King's dash rattle is a built-in manufacture spec?
-love train
Hey...what's pinch protection? How does that work? I've never heard of that and am sincerley curious.
What is does, if a finger or a child's head is in the way of the window as it is being raised, with enough force down on the window, the window will stop going up, and retract down a few inches, so that you don't chop someone's finger off or accidentally kill someone.
The power window safety controversy was a big issue for Consumer Reports a while back, when Power Windows began popularized in more affordable cars.
I can honestly tell you that I am not jealous. You want the truth? I'm not sure you can handle it, but here it goes. To me, the Jetta board is similiar to gawking at a bad car accident. I like to read about all of the problems that I potentially avoided. I don't wish for people to have problems, but they are interesting. Although people deny that they do this, it is part of human nature. As much as I think you live on another planet, you make this board interesting also because you have such strong feelings about the Jetta. To me, some of the things you say are so ridiculous and sometimes blasphemous that they are entertaining.
Just kidding all of you Protege owners. I'm sure if I want to discuss the Protege you would welcome me to the Protege topic. Is it possible you can leave the Protege discussion in the Protege topic?
The Protege also has overload-protected windshield wipers. If they're frozen to the windshield and you turn them on, a safety feature turns the power to the motor off for a few moments so the motors won't burn up or a fuse doesn't blow. Another feature I found out about by accident.
I totaled a 1992 Protege because of its bald, short-life Bridgestone Potenza tires. I hydroplaned into the rear of a stopped Volvo station wagon (aka "brick wall") doing about 45 mph. I walked out of it. Talk about crash test ratings all you want; I'm probably one of the few people here who chose his current vehicle based on real-life, personal experience of its crashworthiness.
And btw, I didn't bring up the Protege vs. Jetta stuff. I was lurking and saw a few of you slamming the Protege -- which I wouldn't consider "bottom of the line entry level," by the way -- ever heard of Accent, Rio, Lanos, Echo, Cavalier, Esteem, Swift, Metro, etc.? Have you guys actually DRIVEN a Protege, preferably an ES? For the record, I DID drive a Golf GTS prior to my purchase in May 2000.
Meade
To be fair, shall we refer to your VWs as "Jetta Con Quesos?"
Meade
I was so enamored with how my '92 Protege drove, handled, and saved my freakin' life that I went out and replaced it with another one that went 83,000 miles without one single problem. That further reinforced my satisfaction with the car that I bought a 2000 ES, that has now gone 39,000 trouble-free miles. When my wife needed to replace her car in January, it was a no-brainer. Our driveway now has a 2000 Protege ES and a 2002 Protege5 parked in it. We're repeat customers again and again because these cars have proven themselves to us. No Consumer Reports, no Edmunds Top Picks. We have more than 10 years of personal experience with four of them now.
Similarly, Larry (protegextwo) has two Proteges right now. At our last Mid-Atlantic Protege Picnic meet, we met another husband-and-wife Protege duo. (Funny that more than 20 people would drive hundreds of miles to a state park in the Virginia mountains -- some from as far away as New York and Connecticut; one actually paid to FLY in from Chicago) to hang out with other owners of this crappy little "entry level" car, huh?)
Let me know when you're on your fourth trouble-free Jetta, and then we'll talk about warranties, reliability and pride of ownership.
Meade
Actually, I was t-boned in a 01 Golf 1.8T by a truck doing 40. We walked away without a scratch. The impact didn't even get into the passenger compartment as the platform's superb engineering redirected the force around the passenger compartment. That accident sold me on German cars. A little over a month later I had my Jetta. The engine, the interior and the safety...for the money (I paid a touch over 19k) the Jetta can't be touched by any other compact out there.
BTW, the pro DOES handle great. Too bad it doesn't feel substantial, it lacks standard safety equipment and the interior's not up to what I want.
For repeat purchases...I hope not to buy the same make of car again. I plan on continually moving up. Like I said, the Jetta is a TWEENER car. This is the car you buy before finally getting a real car. I'd prefer a G35 next but I'm also considering scrapping my 01 Jetta for a 99 328i. I'd rather pay $400 a month for a 3 year old Bimmer.
Meade
P.S. After reading Paul's experiences, I don't think I'll ever go out of my way to praise a more expensive economy car that has the quality problems of a late-80s Hyundai Excel.
Secondly I am on my second VW as I own a VW Golf TDI as well as my Jetta TDI. I am very happy with my VWs. Since TDI should last 300,000 miles or more by the time I am ready for my 4th VW you will have had to replace your cheap Protege 8 times. And if I do resell my Jetta then I can count on a much higher percentage of retained value than your Protege will retain.
My last two cars where Toyotas. Why I didn't get a Toyota again? The Golf TDI met my tastes and requirements better this time around.
Kirstie, used to drive one, now loves here Jetta, for the different reasons she liked the Protege.
I've driven the Protege, current and past Proteges...didn't meet my tastes....I don't go around telling people that the Protege is a bad car, and point out all of its "flaws" and why the car is a waste of money, on a board dedicated to that car (hence....a term called trolling).
Let's imagine Kirstie going over to the Protege boards (something I don't read, nor care for), and constantly putting down the Protege, and why her Jetta is better than the Protege she traded in. It tends to get pretty annoying rather quick.
Just because someone here thinks the Protege is bottom of the barrel of the economy car class, doesn't mean that's the feeling of the entire consensus of the VW Jetta owners. Address that person and be done with it.
I think you said leather is available for the MP5, so what about the sedan? Nope not available. Doesn't support your argument too much.
Mazda isn't no luxury maker either. They tried it with the "Amanti" label (Mazda's luxury line in Europe)...and failed miserably. The Millenia (originally an Amanti), isn't that spectacular. Time will tell is the Passat W8 and Phaeton will succeed.
In fact, the IIHS (www.iihs.gov)rates the Civic over the Jetta. Also, depending on the trim, the Civic 2dr coupe out rates the Jetta w/ SAB (according to the NHTSA at www.nhtsa.dot.gov).
Be glad you got a TDI. I know from personal experience with a Saab, and trying to trade it in at 60,000 miles, that a turbocharged car (a) becomes a nightmare after about 50,000 miles, and (b) is very hard to get a fair trade on.
Meade
I don't know much about any of those 3 cars. I currently own a 1997 Wrangler, and my wife owns a 1996 Jetta.
"... the most expensive economy car"
"I think this about sums up the whole issue regarding what category the Jetta is in, and how closely the Jetta and Protege really are:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/mostwanted/2002/47581/article.html
Interesting out of all the cars in the class, we're arguing about the two best ones? Maybe we need to face facts and call a truce here."
Now, what are the starting prices and configurations of each?
Traction Control
Who would do this to their kids?
I would call this Darwinism at work. Same goes for the stupid lead paint laws. Who lets their kid gnaw on windowsills? Some idiot does that, and the rest of us have to suffer with peeling, chipped, cracked, fading paint.
;-)
Meade
Waterfest, TDIfest...need I say more.