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Hyundai XG300 and XG350



  • bluewindsbluewinds Posts: 100
    In korea....
    Nobody compare leganza to XG

    Nubira = Elantra
    Leganza = X (LIKE A NISSAN ALTIMA)
    X = Granduer XG

    Leganza is a nice car, but XG is two times more expensive than Leganza in Korea.
  • floridianfloridian Posts: 219
    bluewinds: this ain't Korea !!

  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    Thanks. Looked over some pricing data. Think they are about $1,000 over priced. I was hoping they'd come in a bit low first year to build some buzz and get people looking. Will be interesting to see how much discounting and finance subsidizing takes place. The loaded L showing MSRP of $24,999. That is too close to loaded Maxima or Accord.

    Hyundai now better pray and work hard to ensure reliability is top notch and dealer treatment of buyers and service experience are great. Too bad none of the car mags is testing one yet. Latest C&D arrived in mail today and R&T yesterday. Neither tests XG300. Hyundai better wake up and get one in their hands so we see the road tests. Gotta start the buzz!!!
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    The way I read the pricing for the '01 XG300, it invoices for US$21,453 with climate control, $21,006 with manual A/C. With the way Hyundai has been providing incentives for their new cars, I hve no doubt that you can pick up an XG for near invoice or even below invoice. A little over 20 grand for a near-luxury 3.0L V6 sedan is a heck of a deal IMHO. Anything like it from the Japanese would be in the high 20's, pushing 30 grand when fully decked out.

    If I were in the market for an Avalon-class car, I would definitely give the XG a serious look.

    About the transmission, like I said, I understand Hyundai's marketing strategy and think it's an appropriate one. My personal preference does not affect my opinion of the marketability of this new Hyundai.
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    US$21,000 is about the MSRP of a top of the line '01 Sonata GLS with ABS. Certainly would be nice but, given Hyundai's current Sonata pricing scheme, unlikely.
  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    Hyundai needs to adjust their MSRPs in order to reduce the appearance of aggressive discounting. Has anyone on this site ever paid above or at MSRP for a Sonata? Or even close to MSRP? Don't remember seeing it.

    Hyundai doesn't have to lower invoices. Just narrow the gap between current invoice and new MSRP. Reduces discounting and makes pricing figures appear to be more reflective of market forces.

    What do you think buyers want to see from Hyundai? A $25,000 MSRP that ends up saying "discounted $4,000 of list"? Or a $23,000 MSRP with only a $2,000 discount? The former makes the dealer appear desperate and raises concerns of buyers about the real value of the car.

    Hyundai should reduce MSRPs downward a bit to better reflect what buyers are willing to pay. Infiniti did this exact thing in '96. They knew it killed resale value calculation to see an MSRP or $30,000 but average real selling prices of around $26,000. Because that drove down the average wholesale and retail trade in figures. Soon looked like they were depreciating like Pintos.

    Thus the current MSRP of a Sonata GLS V-6 automatic w/Pkg 13 (nearest car to XG300) would fall from $21,000 to a bit below $20,000. Then XG300 MSRP stays a bit above $21,000.
  • bluewindsbluewinds Posts: 100
    My father's 98 Grandeur XG Q30(XG 300) hasn't had any problem yet except one.

    It has run 55,000Km(35,000 miles) up to now.

    The only problem was that Navigation system was inaccurate, but it was replaced under warranty.

    I like its five speed automatic transmission and memory power seat.

    I went to U.S 10 months ago and spent several months in my relative's house. One of my cousin ,who lives in Boca Raton FL, has an ACURA 3.O CL.(I think it is 98 model,but I don't remember exactly.) I drove it on I-95 to go to Key west. It was a great car. I like its design and fit-finish quality. In my opinion, except suspension performance, XG's overall performance and quality approachs to it. The other cousin, who live in Dulluth near Atlanta GA, just bought a new 2000 TOYOTA AVALON, also I drove it. I think XG's cabin is pretty smaller than AVALON.

    I think Hyundai has fixed all XG's bug since it launhed to market two years ago.

    Also, I think contemporary Hyundai car doesn't have many problems if owner keeps maintanence interval. For example, my mother and my brother drove 91 sonata-they shared one car- until 98 it doesn't have major problem. it had run 190,000km before they traded it to Daewoo Leganza.

    Hyundai's CEO Mr. Chung said that price of all of Hyundai's will rise slightly from 2001.
  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    Drove up to my local Hyundai dealer to take a look at the 2 XG300s the paper said they had in stock. Sean, the outstanding salesperson who sold me my Sonata, told me the dealer's owner was driving the white one but he let me look at the black one. Had a sharp black leather interior. Leather is a bit more supple and just looks more luxurious than the grey leather in my GLS. Had nice leg & head room all around (I'm 6'2"). Roomy trunk. Sharp looking instrument panel. Some nice detail touches throughout the cabin. Made me feel like I was in a MB C-class.

    This base model had a total MSRP of $24,324. Oddly, the sunroof costs $250 in this vehicle because there was a big credit for fact it did NOT have the standard automatic climate control. Wonder if Hyundai having supply problems? Or decided to make standard after they started building them in quantity? Also had a sunroof deflector and floor mats as options. (Why those wouldn't be standard is beyond me.)

    Great news: As I poured over the window sticker I noticed that in small print it said that the car comes with a rental vehicle for all covered repairs!!! That is something Hyundai needed to do to attract a more upscale buyer. Now my wife might actually consider it; she won't if no guaranteed loaner/rental program.
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    Nice detective work there, giowa. I agree that buyers above the near-luxury cutoff price point will expect nothing less. I wonder if it means a loaner of equal or greater value than the repaired vehicle? I'm sure the XG300 driver is not going to be thrilled about being seen driving a rent-a-wreck.
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    And they would be thrilled being seen in a Hyundai?

    (Sorry, couldn't resist ;-)
  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    Before you dismiss the XG300 out of hand, even if in good humor, I'd highly encourage you to take a real close look at one. I haven't driven one yet; salesman offered, but I had to get daughter to her bowling league. I did spend about 20 minutes sitting in front and back, checking out trunk & engine compartment, rolling windows down (to see how far in back, and was almost 3/4 way down), operating seats, sunroof, etc. She seemed well built. Felt solid. Looked great. If you took off the Hyundai insignia, it could pass for an Acura 3.5RL. Only thing I didn't like were the frameless windows. I'm not a fan. Tend to let in too much wind noise.

    Volfy: When I spied the loaner language on the window sticker, I pointed it out to salesperson. He looked at it closely, called over two more salespeople, and said, "The XG300 comes with loaner. That'll make it a lot easier to sell." I couldn't have agreed more. Now I'm trying to find this in the brochure. Odd that the window sticker clearly says it, but not the brochure. I just poured over the brochure again, including all the fine print. Nada on loaner.
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    And they used to say the Japanese couldn't build luxury cars either.

    Dismiss the Koreans too if you must, but the automotive history is filled with manufacturers, which were 2nd round cutouts only a decade ago, beating the reigning champs to the podium.

    Hyundai is climbing the automotive totem pole. Fast.
  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    Realizing I might have misinterpreted something, stopped by the dealership today on way back from church. Poured over sticker and realized my mistake. The loaner program referenced is part of the Hyundai Protection Plan (HPP). That is also available on Sonata, etc. I think Hyundai is making a mistake. When I realized my mistake, my wife told me she won't consider buying one unless and until there is a no-cost loaner program. She wants to know she won't be stranded at the dealership waiting for repairs and we live about 20 miles from dealership so shuttling is a viable option.

    Hyundai, if you are listening, raise the price of the XG300 slightly and "give" customers "free" loaners! They expect it when buying a luxury automobile.
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    I was only joking guys. Lighten up.
    I'm sure Hyundai's quality is improving, but they still have a serious image problem. People will look at them like second rate foreign econoboxes until they prove they can compete with the likes of Ford, Nissan, and *gasp* Honda & Toyota.
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    Some people, who can't seem to rub the original Beetle out of their mind, also don't take VW's move upscale seriously. Fact is, VW is already selling 30k+ Passats right now and will be introducing a $40,000 flagship W8 Passat next year, and they can't seem to supply them fast enough to meet the demand. Hyundai is breaking similar sales records.

    Plenty of folks consider cars as they are, not how the car maker used to be. These are typical not the ones to follow the herd and play it safe with established brands. They are also the ones that have enough confidence in their own judgement to make their own choices, instead of waiting for JD Powers to make up their minds for them. :-)
  • jkobtyjkobty Posts: 99
    This is one well built car. I did not get to drive it, but just inspected it from inside and out. The fit and finish on this car is amazingly accurate. It really impressed me. I was parked next to an Infiniti I30 today and I looked at it inside and out and was not as impressed as I was
    with this Hyundai. I read a test drive about it in an article from Australia. I think they were
    biased, because it is way way better than they say it is. The only concern is that they mentioned that it is like a bouncing castle on wheels and that bumps in the road cause a ripple effect that takes a while of straight road to
    subside. I am not sure if this is still the case with the North American version. I really want to try out this car, but I cannot get myself to ask the dealer for a test drive since they do not have many in stock and I am not really a serious buyer. I thought this car is HUGE. It is more than big enough. I am still young and prefer smaller cars, but this sure is one nice LUXURY
    car. Anybody that says otherwise is hopeless.
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    "A cat will only jump on a hot stove once, after that, it won't even jump on a cold one"
    (Don't know who said it first, but whoever you are, I'll give you the credit).
    I'd be willing to bet that those who don't "play it safe with established brands" get burned a bit more than someone who buys a car they have had a good experience with before. The most reliable indicator of how good a car is going to be is to look at how well the older ones have held up. Hyundai's record in the past has been slightly on the abysmal side. I'm sure they're working to correct that (otherwise they'd go out of business), but not sure enough to consider buying one if I were in the market. Venturing into unknown territory is fine with washers and vacuum cleaners, but a car costs a whole lot more money, and I don't want one that's going to burn me.
  • aimanaiman Posts: 61
    Well, that's why they offer the warranty to assure the buyers. Hence, more and more ppl are coming to Hyundai these days. Of course if the cars are still really crappy like those excels back then, they will lose money big time with the warranty commitment they offer.
  • Just a quick note to re-affirm the ride in the XG.

    Took one out for a 25 minute test drive two weeks ago, and was interested in previous posts in reguard to suspension quality and bouncy ride.

    Let me tell you that there is no problem with this cars ride. If anything, it is rather on the tight side. My father and mother have a Mercury grand Marquis and a Ford Crown victoria. These cars are very floaty and rolley compared to XG. XG is tight in corners and not at all loose going over pretty rough rail tracks. At 30,40 and 50 miles per hour, taking the steering wheel and purposely rotating it left to right to left in succession, produces a very tight feel. The car body follows the steering very precisely. Perhaps better than most cars of this size. The suspension does a very good job of soaking up potholes, rough road, and quick steering manuvuers. After you do test drive one, it is actually scarey to think that if Hyundai didn't have this so called "image" problem, and still was able to produce a car of this quality for this low price, what the heck are the other car manufacturers reap'in for profits. German design, and involvement using Korean labour coupled with high technological manufacturing operations, can only produce one thing. The Sonata, XG and Santa Fe, are the culmination of such endeavours. And in the words of Martha Stewart...."that's a good thing".

    Don't be scared about this offering from Hyundai either. You probably will get something else from another manufacturer that does perform better, is tighter, and will provide a better resale value after your done with it.

    But if you invest your money this way, as in automobiles, then your a very poor investor, cause they all decline in price worst than any other investment. So my conclusion would be to have as little invested in it as possible, while still getting tremendous value for your money.

    I switched over to Hyundai in 1993. And it has been an uphill climb as far as convincing others that there is tremendous value in their cars. But you know people are like sheep or cows, you can lead them to the trough, but you can't make em drink.

    People will continue to look at Hyundai. Some will buy, but most won't. Hyundai does need to do some very creative advertising and promotional events to change peoples thinking.

    One thing that I always ask people, is whether or not their supposedly superior car has certain features that mine already has. When they say things like those are only frivelous or does it still work, I point out that my Sonata with 174,000 klms should have died according to their people long ago is still running very fine, and has yet to start rusting, plus when was the last time you seen Hyundai advertise major recalls like Ford's tires, Chryslers rear hatch, GMs seats coming unbolted. Hey heres a good one, Fords world car the focus, seems a bit out of focus, cause their recalling all of them for bad brakes, and someother serious problem. Hmmmmm my Sonata wasn't ever recalled. Theres an old saying that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. This does apply to people outside the Hyundai circle. back soon
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    Nice essay there, peachville.

    There are definitely no shortage of people willing to pay more for perceived quality and value. A friend of ours buys US$300 Gucci leather belts and thinks they are worth every penny. I, OTOH, disagree but am not about to argue with her about it (not unless she sneers at me about my $25 department store brand belts I wear anyway :-)

    I don't buy $300 belts, not because I don't have $300 to spend frivolously, but because I think my money would go a lot further than been dumped into paying for a brand name.

    I vaguely remember a GM top executive once, when asked the real difference between a Chevy and a Cadillac, said something like: "a hood ornament and about $25". Studies have suggested that the history and appeal of the brandname VW is worth up to $4k to car buyers. Looking at how much VW is charging for their cars nowadays compared to comparable cars leaves no doubt that VW knows this and sets prices accordingly. Toyota and Honda do the exact same, as they rightly should.

    The Japanese have been undercutting the Germans on luxury cars for a decade now. While Lexus and Infiniti are still relative bargains compared to Mercedes and BMW, they've been creaping up in price over the years as well. I see no reason why the Koreans couldn't come in and undercut even everybody.

    I can't wait to test drive an XG myself. The local dealer here has only one, and it sits indoors on shiney showroom floor. So I'm gonna have to wait a little.
  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    Do keep in mind a couple of highly important factors which drive international car prices around the world.

    First, Germany has the highest labor costs in the world, way higher than both US and Japan. Cars made in Germany start out being more expensive because the labor is far more expensive. That is why VW built plant in Mexico and bought up SEAT in Spain and Skoda in Czech Republic. They couldn't sell inexpensive cars made in Germany; their labor costs were too high. So the German car companies now focus on building upscale cars in Germany, pushing them in markets where the high labor costs can be recovered and don't put them at an immediate and insurmountable disadvantage.

    Second, exchange rates do change over time and can drive a car's price up or down greatly even if there is no change to the vehicle. Twenty years ago the dollar-yen exchange rate was probably close to 200-250 yen to the dollar. Now it is half that. The Euro, which is replacing the mark, franc, etc., was selling at about $1.17 at its inception last year but is now worth only about 87 cents. Using the 10/18/00 NY Times Business page, over the past 52 weeks the Japanese yen gained 2.44% on the dollar, while the S. Korean won fell 6.04%; German mark gained 27.26%, while the British pound fell 13.28%.

    The above partially explains why US, European, and Japanese are all interested in "cracking" the Korean market. It is big, labor costs are relatively cheap, and the exchange rate has been favorable for exporting. The gamble is that these sorts of factors, including political stability and no real threat of war with N. Korea, stay relatively constant, making a large investment worthwhile.
  • floridianfloridian Posts: 219
    If Hyundai does not get it's financial house in order one way or another, and soon, we will all be deprived of these great cars. Things seem to be going from bad to worse in that regard. I would LOVE to have a XG300 but until they get stabilized over there and the dust settles I'm gonna set on the sidelines. I truly hope that the layoffs and threatened strikes do not happen. This could be the death knell for their cars in this country no matter how good they are. I sure hope they hang in there. The other boys NEED the competetion.

  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    Understood about other factors involved in import car pricing. The US$'s depreciation against the Japanese Yen certainly did not help Lexus pricing over the past decade. However, VW builds NB, Golf and Jetta in Mexico, but these cars are IMO less of a bargain than the German-built Passat. One can argue that VW jacks up its Mexico cars' prices to "subsidize" the Passat, but VW's real bottom line is any body's guess.

    Too, Toyota and Honda build many lines of cars and trucks right here in the US. If Hyundai enjoys the history & mystique the likes of Mercedes Benz and BMW, the XG300 would undoubtedly not carry a mere $24,000 price tag.

    Am I equating Hyundai's build quality to that of fine Eurpean brands? Certainly not. My point is simply that manufacturers set their prices largely according to what customers are willing to pay. A bigger MSRP most definitely does not automatically mean a proportionally better car mechanically.

    Particularly in the realm of luxury cars, visceral appeal account for a significant portion of the perceived value of a vehicle. Since the XG300 is rather shortchanged in that department, its price tag reflects that precisely.

    I still think the XG300's real benefit to HyundaiUSA will not manifest in its own sales numbers, but in infusing the marque with a healthy dose of brand recognition and respect. One that is sorely needed by the Rodney Dangerfield of car brands that has long stood as HyundaiUSA's only claim of fame.
  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    1. Concur completely with your comments on raising the perceived profile of the Hyundai name. Think Santa Fe brings Hyundai into the hot SUV market where more buyers will see Hyundai name and the XG300 tries to bring Hyundai name in front of buyers looking at near-luxury and loaded mid-sized sedans. Sure they'd like to snag some Avalon buyers as well as LeSabre, Camry, Accord, & Maxima. At least to snag their attention initially and get them in for a test drive.

    2. Do keep in mind that when VW does their accounting, they do it in German marks (moving to new Euro). They have to convert peso and dollar sales into marks, which is one reason they have had to keep their prices rather high in the market. And yes, VW has a certain cachet that Hyundai certainly doesn't. But as buyers showed them from about '85-'95, they are willing to desert VW in droves when product is not great and pricing too high. (They hit rock bottom around '93 when I think they sold a grand total of around 50K vehicles. You couldn't find a VW dealer to save your life and his lot was empty of new cars, surviving on used car sales.) VW expanded their operations in Mexico to escape high labor costs in Germany and have a plant close to US and viable in Latin America (to compliment what they already have in Argentina/Brazil). VW had been building old Beetles for decades and still builds them today, but they can't be certified for US purchase.
  • i was impressed with this car! i always tell myself i won't drive any other car but japanese cars but i am wrong. hyundai will prove they can undercut even 'everyone'. i know people are still biased but it is hyundai's fault. obviously they made crappy cars before BUT not anymore! guess who makes the world's most sophisticated semi-conductors? Samsung!
  • goralgoral Posts: 138
    I stopped by my local Hyundai dealer and they had
    1 XG on the showroom floor. I must say I was very impressed by the looks and the feel of the car. The model they had was regular XG (not L), but it did have leather, sunroof, etc... The manufacturer sticker was something like ~$24.
    But... the actual sticker had $895 pinstripes and undercoating + $1895 mysterious "Protection Pkg XXX" added on (for a total of ~$27K). WHAT ARE THEY SMOKING??? I forgot to ask the salesperson what's exactly included in this package...
    Note to Hyundai dealers - DON'T BE STUPID. You have some nice cars available, but you still have ways to go before you earn public's trust.
    My 2 cars right now are Acura Legend and 3.5RL, but guess what - I will not even look at Acura/Honda until the dealers stop gouging people.
    The factory sets the MSRP for a reason...
  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    1. Goral: Please tell the dealer what you think about his bogus add ons. We all know they are worthless and only a way for the dealer to gouge the buyer. But don't believe it is only Hyundai dealers doing this. The Lincoln LS forum recently had a lot of postings in regard to "Environmental Protection Packages", which are nothing more than dealer profit spiff and crummy paint sealant. Too bad the gutless State legislators cow-tow to the car dealers in regard to franchise laws. Who wouldn't rather buy direct when the middleman is out to screw you???

    2. Volfy: Saw this in last Thursday's Financial Times, under headline "Mazda plans to shift production away from Japan". Excerpt:

    "The company, which has almost no production outside Japan, estimates adverse currency movements have cost it around $1bn over the past two years ... it would decide whether to expand manufacturing in Europe before the end of this year ... Mazda is particularly exposed ... Europe was Mazda's largest single overseas market, accounting for 42 percent of export volume and 28 percent of total domestic production. Strategically, it has very little choice but to make the decision."

    Hyundai is also vulnerable, which is likely a big reason why they appear to be interested in production plants in W. Hemisphere and Europe.
  • floridianfloridian Posts: 219
    Saw a brand new XG300 yesterday on a used car lot, not even a new car dealer, asking price @MSRP, what the heck gives here ? If these things are gonna be so hot how can a used car dealer even get one let alone sell it at sticker when some of the Hyundai dealers don't even have any in stock yet ? The car biz is totally goofy .

  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    The legal definition of what is a new car versus a used car is probably what is driving your observation. If a dealer takes the car new and then uses it as a demo or otherwise titles it for owner's use or his wife's, etc., even if they only put couple hundred miles on it and tire of it, could likely cause the car to legally have to be sold as used, even a couple weeks later.

    My small midwestern town Chrysler dealer, a real tiny operation, has 3 used PT Cruisers in stock. Spoke with a salesman. They got them from auction. Dealer owner driving one now. Other being used by sales manager. Dealership using kind of as rolling advertising since everyone notices them. They are only trying to sell one. Has sat in showroom for about 2 weeks. Think they are asking too much (which is also what salesperson told me).
  • floridianfloridian Posts: 219
    What REALLY gripes me is the way these sleezy dealers react when you call'em on the phoney add- ons and "added dealer margin" or "adjusted market value" . If you hedge on this stuff they act like you stabbed them thru the heart !! best one yet @ local MOPAR dealer, $3000 mark up on a Neon for gos sake !! AMV on a crappy Neon, give me a break. Chryco is giving $2500 cash back in this area on Neon. So I guess the factory really knows what these sleds are worth.

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