BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

tenet1

The Coupe definately has a stunning appearance especially due to the color coordinated rubber strip around the car. That is probably its biggest variation from the sedan (besides the lack of 2 doors) in my opinion.

However, I went for the sedan just because it is more practical and a lot roomier (more to love). Unless you will never allow others to ride along with you, you will always be inconvenienced by others trying to get into your car.

shipo

Over the years I have noticed a trend that when a manufacturer offers a car in both coupe and sedan form, the sedan usually weighs a little less. Case in point, when the Neon Coupe first came out it had a more powerful engine (optional it think) than the sedan, however, they both raced in the same SCCA class and due to the lighter weight of the sedan, it usually beat the more powerful coupe.

The E46 3-Series was no exception to this rule (until now that is) with the 2001 weights being:

325Ci-3,252 vs. 325i-3,241
330Ci-3,351 vs. 330i-3,318

Enter the specs for the 2002 3-Series and either BMW has not quite got all of the numbers worked out yet (on their web site) or the cars have changed weights, because the numbers now show:

325Ci-3,197 vs. 325i-3,219
330Ci-3,285 vs. 330i-3,285

As you can see, all of the cars have lost weight, and the sedans are now either the same weight (330i) or HEAVIER (325i) when compared to the Ci models. What happened?

Best Regards,
Shipo

genie1

My previous car was a coupé and I never had more than one passenger in my car (and that was rare too). So I had no qualms about getting a coupé this time around.

However, since I got this car, I've found that most of my family and friends seem to need rides very often.

A couple of people have complained about the cramped leg room and the ungainly entrance/exit procedures. This is most definitely a two person car (a couple of kids could be comfortable in the back seat, I suppose).

So if you need to cart people around often, the coupé is inconvenient.

In retrospect, I would still get the coupé because I love it. I'm the one who has to drive this baby everyday. Passengers can take the bus if they prefer. :0

The space behind the drivers seat is perfect for purses, umbrellas, shopping bags. I like the easy access to the back seat where I can throw my coat. In a sedan I'd have to open the rear passenger door to dump my stuff.

So the coupé wins for now. My next vehicle probably won't be one.

brave1heart

The Gallery dealership that you referred to is the BMW Gallery in Norwood (about half-hour from Boston). I am not surprised to hear about your bad experience with them - I have been telling everyone to avoid this dealership like the plague. They are liars and tried to rip me off too.

brave1heart

I'd be really curious to know how they were able the shed off 20-70 lbs from all '02 models. As far as the coupe vs. sedan weight, the coupe is typically sportier in base trim (bigger wheels at least) and should weigh a little more. They would probably weigh the same once you add the SP on the sedan, though.

brave1heart

100 mph with an 80-yr old lady in the back seat? Ingenious: if you get pulled over, you can always tell the cop it was a medical emergency and you had to rush the lady to the hospital. Now if I could only convince my grandma to jump in my 325i's back seat for a couple of hours ;o)

jasonkureejii

'99 to '02? Does 20-30lbs matter that much? 100lbs, I could see. Is it too much on the engine to be shifting above 3500RPMs all the time? The only things that I worry about right now at 3200 miles are burning out the clutch or wearing down the brake pads prematurely. I think I asked this before, and can't remember a response, but are the brake pads covered by the Full Maintenance Warranty?

genie1

I've noticed a couple of you mention your height as 6' and over. Do you find the 3 series cramped in terms of leg/elbow room?

I only ask because my brother and dad (neither of whom are big strapping guys) find the 325/330 (sedan/coupé/convertible)not roomy enough. Even with the seat lowered and pushed all the way back they claimed to be uncomfortable (they looked it too). They felt more comfortable in the 5 series and the JGC. Even the A4 was roomier.

Now I have no frame of reference other than that the 3 fits me perfectly and I feel in control of the car, but I'm 5'1 and 120#.

So I'm curious about your perceptions regarding space/comfort.

derprofi

Stopped by Fairfax BMW this morning with my digicam, eager to snap a picture of an '02 with SP. DOH! Not an '02 in sight...

muzzy325i

I'm 6'5'' (#190) and drive a 2001 325i (5 speed manual). There is plenty of Leg/Head/Shoulder/Hip room up front. I do not even have the seat all the way back, or all the way to the floor in terms of height adjustment. I did notice that the manual seats (which I have) do have a bit more travel than the power seats. I can also squeeze in the back seat behind the driver (in my seating position). With an averaged size drive I fit just fine in the back. I just had three other people in my 325 yesterday and they both commented on how much room they had in the back. I was going to test drive an A4 when I was shopping around but I could not get comfortable in the driver's seat, even when I got to the point where I could drive there was no possible way anybody could sit behind me, so I walked away. I stepped out of a Jeep CG to the 325 and the only regret I have is not getting the sport seats for a little more leg support.

derprofi

Stopped by Fairfax BMW this morning with my digicam, eager to snap a picture of an '02 with SP. DOH! Not an '02 in sight...

dave330i

jasonkureejii: nothing wrong with shifting above 3500. I do it all the time. In fact I think the car shifts better above 3500. Just make sure the engine's warmed up though. Most warranty don't cover wear and tear stuff, and brake pads fall under it. I'm not 100% sure if this is true with BMW or not.

genie1: I'm 6'1", 190# and I have no problems fitting inside my 330i. Mine has PP, so I have power seats and Moonroof, but still no problems. I do need to drop the seat to the lowest position, so I can fit inside with the helmet on.

shipo

Brave,

While I have no idea how true this is; I have always been told that the reason that a sedan will weigh less than an otherwise identical coupe is that with the larger door openings of the coupe extra support has to be built into the Uni-Body to make sure that the entire structure is as stiff as the sedan. Maybe one of our engineer types here will put forth an opinion.

Jason,

I just checked and the weights for the 1998 through 2000 cars is as follows:

1998 (E36) 323is-3,075 vs. (E36) 318i-2,954
1998 (E36) 328is-3,142 vs. (E36) 328i-3,131

1999 (E36) 323is-3,075 vs. (E46) 323i-3,153
1999 (E36) 328is-3,142 vs. (E46) 328i-3,197

2000 (E46) 323is-3,153 vs. (E46) 323i-3,153
2000 (E46) 328is-3,197 vs. (E46) 328i-3,197

All weights are with manual transmissions. One thing that I find interesting is that in 1999 where there is a mix between the E36 and the E46, that the larger E46 Sedan is just barely heavier than the E36 Coupe.

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart

genie1 - do you have the E36 or the E46? I think you have the E36 because yours is a 318, right? The E46 is much roomier than the E36. The E46 is certainly roomier than the A4 - I drive both every week and can testify. The E46 is probably a tad bigger than what I really need. The 5-series definitely has more room than I'd need any time soon. The ergonomics are great in the 3-series and the interior is built so efficiently - I can rest my left knee underneath the door bulge/handle and also extend my right knee further to the right than in most other cars. Elbow and headroom are more than sufficient.

jason - I rarely exceed 3K RPM's in the first couple of minutes of engine warn-up. Then I gradually start pushing the RPM's up and I routinely shift above 4K. The 3-series loves this kind of work. Key thing for protecting the clutch is to shift quickly and not holding the clutch there halfway. And no, 20-50 lbs would not make a noticeable difference in performance.

genie1

They found the E46 cramped as well, not just my E36 318. Go figure!

bmw_guy

I have just booked a 325xi, 02 from Herb Chambers.
So far, the dealer seems to be nice and co operative. But I heard some people complaining about this dealer. I was just wondering if I could get more info on this. I was following the "deals in Boston" messages, but folks did not recommend me to any dealer as such.
Also, I heard somewhere that how I go about European Delivery is go ahead make a deal with the dealer, and later ask him about the European Delivery, if I choose so, I will get an additional 1800( cos it is 3series) off. But when I asked the dealer, he cut off the topic, by sayin that you get 1800 dols off straight on sticker price. He is offering me a deal of 1400. I guess this is a nice deal.

Any comments

jasonkureejii

My girlfriend was looking into an Audi A4. Have the '02 models come out yet? I've only seen some pics over the net, and I must say that they are comparably nice. I think they stepped up the their V6 from a 2.8L to newer 3.0L. I always thought that the A4s were roomier in the back, however...not to get off the topic of 3ers...

dave330i

BTW, I had assumed you're beyond your break in period (1,200 miles). If you're still in your first 1,200 miles, you should not shift above 4k.

brave1heart

I have not dealt directly with Herb Chambers but during my visit there I felt like I was at a train station - that's how busy they are. We had a tough time locating a salesperson and there isn't any highway in the immediate vicinity where you could push the car during the test-drive. Some people have complained that Herb is stuck up and I wouldn't be surprised since they are closest to Boston and get a lot of customers. I bought my car at BMW Peabody which sells ONLY BMW's and my experience with them has been great. My salesperson was Mary Galvin. BTW, I also encountered a staunch reluctance by dealers to discount ED - their thinking was "You're already getting a discount off MSRP..." Makes no sense... it's obvious that they don't want to deal with ED.

brave1heart

I was in Europe for two weeks a month ago and saw the new A4. It's a very nice-looking car - it is fresher, sportier-looking, I think they did a good job with the restyling. My wife has an '01 A4 and she has been very happy with it so far. C&D had an interesting write-up on the new A4 in its latest issue - see if you can look it up. Basically, they are saying that it is a nice car but a little disappointed that you can't tell it apart from the A6 (it's 7/8 the length of A6) and that it's too heavy for its class. Oh, they claim outright that the new 3.0 engine is more luxury and less sport and it doesn't have that sense of urgency and great sound that the 3-series' has.

edward5555

I think that the Hyundai Tiburon is the next 3 Series fighter. Hyundai is a world class car company, and I think that they are snapping at the Bimmer's heels. Hyundai has already surpassed Lexus and Infiniti in design, comfort, engine, and handling, and the latest iteration of the Tiburon is aimed squarely at the 3 Series. The Bimmer's days are numbered.

brave1heart

We were afraid of that and that's why we all rushed to get one while we still could ;o)

shawn325i

all the time. It seems that this is the only way to shift smoothly and I love the sound of the engine in high rpm's.

derprofi

Based on this other thread we all thought for sure that you were going for the IS300. What happened, Edward?

JD Power rates the '98, '99, '00 and '01 Tiburon pretty consistently over the past 4 years. Consistently poor. Mechanical quality, Feature & Accessory Quality, and Body & Interior Quality all consistently rank a 2 (i.e., as low as JD Power rates and the bottom 30% of all cars rated) over that time period. During the same period, the BMW 3-series rates all 4's and 5's (top 10%) with a single 3 mixed in. Not that JD Power is the final word on cars, but it's just one of many sources saying essentially the same thing: the 3-series is a consistently world-class car, and the benchmark for its class.

Clearly, you must have some definition of "3 Series fighter" and "world-class car company" that I'm unfamiliar with.

Seriously, Ed. After having most of your other posts deleted, why would you come on here and troll with a comment like "The Bimmer's day's are numbered"?

jimbres

I'm planning to spend Friday night in the parking lot of the local Hyundai dealer so that I can beat the Saturday morning Tiburon rush.

Wonder how much I'll get for my 330i in trade?

edward5555

I assume you guys know I am just kidding about the Hyundai. I just wanted to see what you guys would say. But seriously, I drove the IS 300 again, and after careful consideration, have determined that it is indeed no match for the BMW. I do like the Bose system with the in-dash CD changer, and the car is in fact really impressive getting from 30-60 mph, but it is a bit of a boy-racer. Now, Lexus is in fact, eventually, going to come a bit closer, but they are not there yet. The final straw was when I drove the car home (Lexus), and my girlfriend said "you look stupid in that car". She further exclaimed, as she had done previously, that the IS 300 looked like a $20,000 car. So I am officially in the market for a Bimmer. I am thinking about two that I have seen and driven--either a 2000 323i black/black, (pp, sp, Step 26k miles) or a 2000 323ci grey/black, (pp, Step, 7k miles) Not sure which one yet, but it will happen soon. Thanks for all your help (and critiques). I hope to soon be one of you! An owner!

Easy Ed

edward5555

I think Hyundai would offer you your own dealership in trade for your 330i.

bmw323is

I'm 6'3", 210 pounds and I fit into the sedan with sport seats perfectly (no sunroofs for me in most any car and some SUV's). This is the ONLY vehicle I have ever driven in which I don't put the front seat all the way back for best driving position. By the way, I like the looks of the coupe and the practicality of the sedan. The sedan won for me - my first sedan ever at age 43. Also, I once compared the 3 series to the 5 series on one website and the back seat head room and leg room were supposedly greater in the 3 series. How does that work?

twoof1

to trade in my 325 for the new Kia roadster I hear it is a real kick in the ...............

burnmud

So I called my dealer (Niello in Sacramento) two days ago to ask about getting my fan replaced. I was told to bring the car in so they could get the VIN off of the car. I asked if I could just give it over the phone and they said no, they had to be sure they had the correct VIN. ( I bought the car at a different dealer and haven't had any service done yet to my 325i with 5600 miles). I bring the car in and I'm told they need the car for 1 1/2 hours to remove the fan to get the serial number off of the fan. They don't need my VIN. Of course they couldn't do the work today because I didn't have an appointment and silly me thought they just needed the VIN. Has anybody else who has had the fan replaced need to have it removed first to get the serial before they'll order a replacement?

I also inquired about the sticky gas pedal... never heard of the problem let us check it out.

Finally I asked about the stiffer steering (my 325i is a March build) and they said it's only for 330i's. I said no it's not (thanks to you fine folks)... hem.... hah.... call BMWNA for approval.

Not the best experience for my first service. I hope the mechanics are better than the reps.

shawn325i

In most driving situations I shift around 4500 rpm saving the 5000+ rpm shifts for the odd, well more than odd aggressive drive.

brave1heart

... that my 325i has picked up some more growl after 7K miles. It sounds like a wild cat, just love it. Then I take my foot off the accelerator and you hear nothing at 70-80 mph - it's so quiet in there!!

brave1heart

I shift smoothly at ANY RPM range. You can shift just as well at 2K and 6K but again, it wants you to shift quickly.

BTW, after 7K miles my 325i seems to leap forward when I punch it. Immediate throttle response without snapping your head off, pretty cool!!

fasterthanu

Saw pics of the new 2002 A4 - looks EXACTLY like an ever so slightly down-sized A6 .. not sure itf that's good or bad until I see it, and don't know how much fo a 'threat' it will be to BMW. I sure like the 3-Series - very sharp. I agree with someone saying the Lexus IS is a little bbit of a boyracer car, but it's still very sharp. Not bad for a first effort at targeting the 3 tho.

Any thoughts on the new A4 compared to 3-series?

brave1heart

fasterthanu -

The A4 looks exactly like the A6, except the overall shape somehow fits the A4's length better. The rear lights are angled differently and somehow I like them better. One of things I do like a lot abou the older A4, though, is that it looks like nothing else out there and when you see one, you don't go like "Nice car but wondering if it's the A4 or the A6..." You could argue the same about the 3-series and the 5-series I guess... From what I've been reading, the new A4 is too heavy and not nearly as sporty as the 3-series. As far as the IS300, the overall exterior proportions and shape are OK, but those clear lenses in the back are too gimmicky. The interior is not ergonomic at all and it feels very cramped up compared to the 3-series. Oh, as far as performance, the new IS300 manual comes close to the 325, although it is more expensive and it should in fact be comapred to the 330. The more entries we have in the compact sport sedan segment, the more the 3-series will stand out because it becomes the benchmark to beat.

fasterthanu

I concur on many of your points. I have always liked Audis, but never as much as BMWs. I would say that the 3-Series is quite distinguishable from the 5 - not only because of the size, but a multitude of details and the 3's sportier proportions and stance. The 5 is very upright tho that's soon to change.

The old/current A4, like you said, looks like nothing else and is very attractive. But the new model does not bode well for Audi in that, since it looks like the A6 nearly EXACTLY, we aren't likely to see much in the way of radical changes in the rest of the line. Which is bad because exterior design is what is keeping Audi from making a bigger mark in the market (too conservative design, except for TT of course).

Speaking of radical design, that's what I think of the IS300. If all the boy racers hadn't bought up phony Altezza-style tail lights for their Civics, Accords, Maximas, Neons (?!?!), etc. the IS would still be one of the most unique vehicles on the road. The copycats messed that up for them. I like the snug interior, but of course that's of no comfort to the passengers, altho legroom is not terrible.

All in all, as you say, a good thing there are viable competitors to the 3 - that means it will continue to improve in order to retain its benchmark status.

BTW I love the new C-Class - not exactly good for S-CLass owners that it resembles their car, but great for its own sake - what a looker inside and out!!

jasonkureejii

I'll have to check out that article on the A4...sounds a bit disappointing for the sporty enthusiast, and, yes, now that I recall, the back end does seem a bit similar to the A6 now....maybe they are following MB trend on their S and C-class.

It's starting to really cool off here, and I'm loving the moonroof right now. I actually still shift around 3K to 3.5K when I'm on the daily commute to work...not alot of room on the road to keep up the higher RPMs. Otherwise, I still enjoy taking'er out on some routes at night and on the weekend, unleashing the cheetah within. I've accidentally popped it into 2nd a couple of times when I meant to be in 4th...man, that really wakes you up! I have no regrets on the options I've chosen whatsoever. The SP is such a great deal...love the seats, balanced suspension for both performance and comfort, and 17" wheels and tires. I thought I would be disappointed in the leather, but found it to be rugid and soft enough...feels and looks great. I definitely wanted the moonroof, power seats and on-board computer...thought I'd just go with the PP, and get the wood, fancy-schmancy interior lighting, etc. Adds a very nice touch. The Xenons give me so much more visibility at night than I'm used to, and previous posts are right that BMW has engineered them such that they aren't blindingly apparent. Nope, no disappointments here. BTW, I just noticed that Edmunds has just posted 2002 models!!!

silverprincess

Can anyone recommend where I can find some good aftermarket xenons headlights? So far I've only found them @ www.bavauto.com, and they're going for around $899. Are they easy to install? Anyone have any experience or instructions on the install? Thanks.

novcenthusiast

but I actually like the lines of the sedan better than the coupe and I'm 25. I like the fact it looks shorter and it seems more complete from the profile. I do think the coupe has a better looking front end.

Dave330: did you ever find anymore info on the Ultimate Drive coming to the Bay Area?

dave330i

check out www.ggc-bmw-cca.org

shipo

Late this afternoon, on the way home, I passed a new Mini-Cooper "Bunn Hugging" it around some curves heading in the opposite direction from me. Let me tell you, this car is INSTANTLY recognizable as a Mini-Cooper when it is coming at you head on, it is that true to the original form. I assume it was one of the ones that BMWNA has locally for their employees to drive. This one was sporting a brilliant yellow paint finish on the body with all metal above the bottom of the glass done up in a high gloss black, VERY slick looking. That car looks like a gas to drive, can’t wait. ;-)

Tonight, I had to cut the grass and given the earlier sunset these days, I had to finish well after full dark. I sure would have loved to have had some 3-Series Xenons on the old Craftsman tractor. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

kominsky

Heading to work this morning, I thought I hit a bird, but wasn't really sure. I kind of forgot about it until just a little while ago a co-worker asked me what happened to the front of my car. Thinking he was joking around, I decided to humor him and take a walk outside with him (I needed a break anyway). That feathery little ~beep~ was embedded in my car! He hit right at the titanium mesh in the air-dam (coupe). If I had to guess, I'd say he looked about what a bird flying into a cheese-grater at 90mph would look like. Fortunately, there was no real damage to the car once the blood gets washed off. I just had to snap a couple of pieces of plastic back together. Well, there was no real point here... just killing a little time.

cnorthrup

I will be getting a '02 330i hopefully 1st week December. I will also be getting winter tires/rims from tirerack.

I was wondering what size socket is needed to fit the stock wheel (17x7.0 Radial spoke alloy)
lug nuts?

Tirerack recomnended the 17mm thin wall socket.

stgreen

2001, 330 xi is 1600 miles old and two things going are going 'wrong':
1) service engine soon light comes and goes as it pleases. And yes, i've checked the gas gap after fill ups...

more importantly...

2) rear, drivers side window is stuck at halfway point and horrible crunching sound comes from door/window when i hold button to get window up..

i WILL take car into service tomorrow to get window fixed but just wanted to see if others experienced this...
thanks,
stg

topspin627

I love my 01 330i with auto and sp. I've been reading about the steering controversy and have to say that my late production car has perfect steering for me. I remember taking a test drive in a 3 series about 2-3 years ago and getting out of the car feeling that it took too much effort to steer at low speeds and when parking. I think they got it right now. That's not to say they won't change it back because the car mags like it very stiff especially when they hit triple digit speeds that I'll never hit. I'm also having a blast with the step. It's easy to use and you can really make the car perform with it. And the brakes are amazing.

bavarian

Brave, I was just driving home tonight in downtown Chicago,doing 50mph on Clark Street if any of you know it, and thinking-"yikes! this car is getting faster" and with 16,000 miles on the clock the gas pedal seems lighter and the car quicker off the mark. It is also growling and growling deeply, so much so it reminded me of a grizzly bear.....
-you know the sound the bear makes when he gets his teeth firmly in your quivering [non-permissible content removed]? Yeah- I know you do.
Funny thing was that as I was stopped at a light I glanced up in the rear view mirror to check my grin and was alarmed to see in the back seat...a freakin' grizzly bear! I, (and this bottle of Chivas) KID YOU NOT!
I had apparently left the moonroof open in the garage when I went to work and the bear must have smelled the doggie bag of ribs I got from Miller's Pub (a local eatery) last night. Luckily he had also found the six pack of Becks I carry-in case of emergency-and was not in an agressive mood. I was worried for a minute though. I mean we have all found wild animals in our cars from time to time-and unless it is, say, a giraffe and you can see his head sticking out of the moonroof-you just get in and drive off and before you know it the car is filled with the odour of aardvark or such and your six pack is empty.
Anyway- I flagged down a cab and gave the guy a good tip and together we managed to get the big-assed bear into the back seat (Crown Victoria) and he's off my hands, at least.

Anyway-I digress-which is mighty unusual for me.

My condolences to anyone-and there seems to be quite a number, who has been having problems with their new BMWs-exploding or disintegrating or attacking their drivers while they sleep ( I may have been reading TOO MUCH V_TECH)...my experience with my 325i over the past 51 weeks has been wonderful and it gets better every day.

Don't be discouraged.

bavarian, quadruple voranos!

shipo

Hey Bavarian,

You are killing me your making me so homesick, I lived in Windy Town for 13 years prior to moving to the NYC area (on the day that Billy Bob Clinton got elected). Your reference to Millers made my mouth start into involuntary watering, that and it dredged up memories of Twin Anchors, Leons Ribs (I heard that they are not there anymore), Ranalli’s and Bacino’s. Wow, I sure miss Chicago food, not to mention the local Blues clubs and WXRT.

Best Regards,
Shipo

brucec35

Are you crazy? You couldn't be more wrong. The Kia Sephia is the car to watch! It blows the Hyundai off the road. I like the sports package with the 175/70-14 wheels for extra grip.

jimbres

Wish you had posted a couple of days earlier. Just traded my 330i for a Hyundai Tiburon. Got a great deal - dealer threw in floor mats, a T-shirt & a 6-pack of Bud Light. My new car even has a spoiler that, according to the salesman, will make my Tiburon much faster than my old 330i ever was. Something about an ion particle warp drive that's built right into the spoiler.

You're saying that the Kia is even better? I don't believe that. My salesman says that my Tibbie will do 0 to 60 in under 2 seconds once it's broken in.

allano

I had my "service engine soon" light turn on steadily a couple of weeks ago. Turned out to be the car's thermostat (is your car heating up after driving 5 miles rather than 1 mile?).
I suspect the BMW's diagnostic system has captured the fault code so make sure the dealer connects his fault code reader to the car.