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Comments
rantfx, if pure speed/HP at a cheap(er) price is what you're looking for, why aren't you over on the Camaro or Firebird board instead of here complaining that the Bimmer's are underpowered and marketed to Sunday drivers rather than authentic enthusiasts like yourself?
If what you're looking for is a high-powered sport sedan, and if you don't consider the non-M3 3-series a true sport sedan with enough power, why are you even wasting your time on this board? Do you expect your comments to prompt BMW to change their strategy to suit the needs of "that Honda-driving guy in Ontario"? Or do you just take pleasure in hanging out and trying to browbeat a group of satisfied Bimmer owners into feeling ashamed because some cheesy Altima has more horsepower on paper and they aren't writing angry letters to BMW demanding one-upmanship?
KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs
Any Thoughts.
When BMW decides what future versions of the 3-series should be, they will indeed have regard to what the marketplace demands. That market is made up of people like you, me and others who take the time to turn their considered attention to the product.
To the extent BMW is told by us that there’s already more than enough power in these cars, and that instead we’re really keen to have electric seats, park distance sensors and elaborate sound systems, that’s what we’ll get. To the extent BMW realizes that its market demands more power, that’s what we’ll get. As I said earlier, it’s because of people like you that they don’t all come with M3 levels of power, and aren’t likely too any time soon.
Indeed there is no doubt that in the conflict between these competing priorities, you win.
I just think it’s a shame – the car is a good platform for a genuinely capable sport sedan, but buyers like you are interested in luxury accoutrements more than serious horsepower.
Your suggestion that I turn to American products is ironic because the 3-series is becoming a luxo-gadget-laden showboat much like some rather vulgar American cars have in the past. All of the emphasis in the development of the car is towards further overkill in electric gadgets and driver “aides”, which have the same role as the opera windows and vinyl roofs of the ‘70’s.
There already exists a BMW out there which would seem to fit the bill for you. It is called an M3 coupe. If you can't afford the price of admission to that ride, then maybe you can get a night job. To badmouth those who find the 3-er HP adequate and lump them into "buyers like you...interested in luxury accoutrements" group is unfair. Markets change over time, and I think it's perfectly acceptable that the 3-series evolves right along with it. No one can deny that despite an increased level of cushiness, the soul of the 3-er remains the same.
If an M3 is out of the question, and if American muscle doesn't suit you, maybe you should get in line for something like the new 300ZX? It seems like it's a "back to basics" Z-car that would appeal to what you're looking for.
Do you live in a part of Canada where the roads are perfectly straight? Are there no curves in your part of the world?
I live in the metro NYC area, & I drive a 5-speed 330i equipped with the sport package. My car will accelerate from 0 to 60 in 6 seconds flat. Given the traffic congestion that I have to live with, that's far more than enough power. I'd have to get up at 2 in the morning to use an appreciable percentage of the juice that I've got, but I can take real pleasure in my car's superb handling every time I drive it, without risking an expensive conversation with the local peace officers.
I bought a BMW because I wanted balance. I value acceleration - we have some pre-WWII highways with short entrance ramps, & I appreciate having enough power to merge safely - but what puts a smile on my face is my car's razor-sharp handling. Buy an M3? Why? Even if I could afford it, I couldn't use the extra power. No one who lives around here can. It would be a waste of money.
Knocking another second from your 0 to 60 times might enhance the quality of your driving experience, but it certainly wouldn't count for much around here.
Again, it comes down to balance. If you can appreciate it, you'll love this car.
I was sitting next to a 35-year old German person on a Lufthansa plane back from Europe recently. I ordered a bottle of Beck's and he got a bottle of Warsteiner. I knew immediately that I was missing something by not getting the same beer - he should know German beer better than me. So we started talking and it came he was a senior salesperson from an engineering background working for a hi-tech company. He had just bought a 525 a couple of months ago. It was clear from the conversation that he could have a car that cost a lot more than a 525 and as an engineer, he would have been interested in a technologically advanced car. So I asked him why he chose it. He said the 3- and 5-series were the best family sports sedans and offered the perfect blend between performance, comfort, quality and fun to drive. I asked him why not Mercedes. He said it was a little higher than BMW status-wise but not nearly as much fun to drive. Why the 525 instead of the 530 or even the 540? He said the 525 had plenty of power and could run on the autobahn at very high speed all day, so why spend the money on a 530 or 540? See, what really amazed me is that when we were talking about power, he was thinking top speed (unlike here, cars in Germany do not have a speed governor). He wasn't at all factoring in acceleration in his buying decision!! The key thing is to have a car that offers a stable platform. The chassis is like the foundation of a house... Power is also important of course but if you need to squeeze that extra juice out of the car, you can do that - just keep the RPM's high. I's so much more fulfilling to outrun/othandle/outbrake cars with 60 more ponies that have the same weight. All while you're traveling in comfort in a great-looking car. In a BMW, 184 ponies from a 2.5 ltr engine run as well as the 240 from a 3.5 ltr engine in the Altima or the 215 from a 3.0 ltr in the IS300 manual - it's all about efficiency.
On your note about RWD, you are absolutely correct that it offers a different feel. We all know about better weight distribution, handling, etc. but what's also interesting is that in a RWD, you feel like the car is pushing from behind, instead of the front wheels pulling the car or neutral acceleration as is the case with AWD.
I live in central Massachusetts and have survived a lot of New England winters. I've owned all kinds of cars and trucks: all, front, and rear wheel drive. In my opinion, how you drive and how good your tires are in snow is more important than which or how many wheels are driven.
I like the looks of the coupe better than the sedan, but bought the sedan. With two teenage kids, it is a lot more practical. I didn't get all wheel drive. I figure that with traction control and a good set of snow tires I'll do just as well as I've been doing the past several years in front wheel drive cars with all season tires. Where all wheel drive would be helpful is if you have to drive on unplowed streets, or up steep ice covered or snow covered roads. If that's not the case I'd say get the coupe.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
it's also in your owner's manual...
-Chris
I will get a stylish Coupe. May be it will better suite my needs as a college-goer.
Hey Joe, thanks Man. I have another q though. Do the new BMW 325 has an option for good snow tires. I dont think so. So what is a better solution for me. Can I have an extra threading for snow ??? Or do I have to buy a set of snow tires?
inflate to recommended pressure when tires are cold, regardless of ambient temperature...
-Chris
-Chris
You appear to be reasonably articulate and vehement in your opinions. However, for somebody that owns a 4-cylinder Accord to "rant" on the performance of a BMW 3-series is pitiful. And for someone to suggest that BMW should make all of their three series cars with 300 hp engines - and sell them for just a little more than your Accord - shows the business intelligence of a liberal politician. Try redirecting your negative energy and articulateness into something positive that perhaps will make you money so that you can actually afford an M3.
By the way, a little old-timer perspective. In the mid 80's I bought an M6 for over $60k that had 256 horsepower and cost roughly 5 times as much as an Accord. Today, for 2 1/2 times the price of an Accord, you can get an M3 with 333 horsepower that will outperform in every way my old M6. Hell, even a 330i will stack up pretty well. BMW has probably advanced the entire performance bar, including handling, further than all other car manufacturers combined, short of Ferrari and Porsche. I think you ought to figure out how you can add value to your employer or in your own business so you can stop belly-aching that BMW doesn't give away M3's.
Second question is in regard to the seats. What are the standard seats like? Every car I've test driven has the 6 way power seats(up/down, seat cushion fwd/backward, seatback fwd/back). How many positions does the standard non-power seat have? or is it the same? Is there no way to get the 6 way power seat to tilt like the sport pkg power seats? I have long legs so I wish the seats would tilt, but I didn't really want to get the sport package.
brake pads - i got 80k out of my fronts, i still have the same rears (102k). plan on replacing your rotors at the same time as pads. bmw treats rotors as wear items. they generally can't be resurfaced and still be in spec.
brake dust - either clean them a lot (what a lot of people do) or just live with it (like some of us do, frankly, i don't think it looks like a bimmer without blackened wheels!). there's also a couple different types of pads that produce less dust than the stock ones, check out some of the various bmw aftermarket vendors. don't put those things on there (wheel klean, or whatever they are) that block the dust. they allow heat buildup (bad for heavy, repeated braking).
alarm system - not sure.
-Chris
Thanks for your comments. I think it comes down to this:
If you want to attract ~my~ attention with something you call a “sport sedan”, well, it better have some serious power. So far, 325 and 330 BMWs don’t. I’d like to see that change. You don’t seem to care. That’s our difference.
I understand. On the issue of attracting attention, most 3-series owners are more likely to agree with blackren, that “Clean wheels means everything.”
I haven't seen that, sure the odd post, but not the continued attacks that we see from others.
Is it that we (BMW owners) are happy with what we drive and are more than happy to let others drive and talk amongst themselves about their cars without filling their boards with crap?
I think so.
There have been a lot of good topics discussed on this board over the last few months but lately I think things are getting a little ugly. Just ignore certain posts even though it may be hard and I am sure that certain posters will move on.
My two cents.
-Chris
that being said, no performance tire is gonna be really quiet.
go to tire rack, put in your size, and see what they have. they also have many comparisons. they are also really helpful on the phone.
good luck.
-Chris
Brake dust - function over form any day in my book. I brush off the dust once every couple of weeks and could care less if the wheels aren't blindingly shiny. Just as long as the brakes work well.
Nonsense. Blackren is helping define what 3-series are all about just as much as you are. ‘Cause BMW will make the car the way most people want it.
Given a choice, blackren and probably a lot of other 3-series owners would prefer 4-wheel drum brakes because their ideal of a sports sedan is based on important priorities like “clean wheels mean everything.”
As far as the manually adjusted seats, they move in basically three directions: seat forward/back, seat up/down (no independent tilting motion) and back rest tilt down/up. The range of each is excellent with an up/down range from "sitting on the floor" to "hitting my head" (I'm about 6ft tall, normal torso length). Up/Down adjustment effort is moderate (you push back against the firewall -- the seat rocks back slightly as it moves down) for someone about 170 lbs but my daughter does not weigh enough to lower it without an added push from Dad.
If you are the only one driving the car 95% of the time, manually-adjusted seats are fine but if someone else drives the car just once a week, I'd recommend the 6 way power seats with memory -- especially if you choose a manual transmission. It is really nice to return to your exact seat position after someone else has driven the car. I've been able to compare the two adjustment methods since my daughter has a 330 with power seats.
You're now really crossing the line into trolldom when you single out folks who like to keep their wheels clean for special ridicule. Please either haul yourself over to the Accord threads and bellyache about how you wish your Honda had 300hp, 3 pedals, and RWD or direct that hostile energy into a letter to BMW USA telling them where you as a potential boy-racer customer would like to see them take their line of sport sedans in the future. You're adding nothing here.
allano, I nickeled and dimed myself on my current car and didn't get power seats. The 6" height and 70 pound weight difference between my wife and I results in huge hassles since she drives the car maybe 30% of the time. For a solo driver or multiple drivers of about the same size, I think manual seats are fine and a great way to keep costs down. Personally, though, I'll never try to save a buck in that area again. It's good to hear that the stock seats are so comfortable. I only hope that the sport seats are as comfy during long trips.
however, ymmv.
-Chris
I thought after driving the Jetta for a day that it was much easier and smoother to shift gears, however after spending a few hours in bumper to bumper traffic yesterday, I found that the clutch in the Jetta requires much more effort to depress it and as a result releases very quick. My leg was killing me and it hit me. The clutch in my 325i needs much less effort to depress it, my boss said he had a hard time getting use to it's hydralic nature as opposed to his old RX7. This "hydralic" nature as my boss pointed out requires a learning curve becuase you have to match the releasing of the clutch with the optimum rpm's or you get that jerky feeling mostly between 1st and 2nd. You may think that you have released the clutch all the way while applying the gas, but good chance is that you have not.
Try and take out another vehicle with manual and then jump in your Bimmer and compare, it's the only way I have been able to realize that the "jerky" feeling I'm experiencing is me and not my car.
I'm a little curious. Were your Conti's a special tire that you put on after delivery? Did you ever cross-rotate (i.e left rear to right front) them?
Although I realize they are a different animal, the Conti Mud & Snows that came with my daughter's 330xi are very quiet and stable.
Alan
however, the conti mud and snows i can't speak to... there's a big difference in between high performance summer tires and mud/snows... i would imagine tramlining isn't an issue with those... mine wears blizzaks in the winter, so it's not like i'm pushing it all that hard, so squirrely-ness isn't much of an issue...
you'll get a pretty standard answer from most bimmer enthusiasts on the conti-sports... take them off and use them for flower planters...
-Chris