BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

allano

I believe your dilemma has been caused by two factors: BMW did not anticipate the high demand for AWD in 2001 and thus did not have sufficient capability. In about the July/Sept time frame (not exactly sure of the month), BMW started accepting orders only for xi's designed for customers but not from dealers who wanted to sell from stock. Thus, from about July on, dealers could not purchase AWD cars, only individuals who ordered them from dealers.
The second factor may be a general shortage of MY2002 cars caused by model year production change-over (just a guess) and a general high demand for the car -- it seems to have become very popular in 2001.
However, I find it hard to believe that you could not find a dealer (Peabody BMW or Tulley in Nashua) who would not offer you some consideration to buy a 2002 from them rather than the same MSRP from someone else. If you check previous posts (about a month ago) by Brave1Heart, you will find the names of Boston dealers he found to be reasonable.

Alan

shipo

I went through the same process three years ago between the 528i and the 328i, both 1999 model year cars, I got the 328i. Why? Here are the reasons I used back then, ranked in order of importance to me at the time:

1) The armrest on the 528i was in the way of my elbow when shifting into 2nd or 4th gears, the 328i has a notch cut out of the armrest that (at least for my elbow) perfectly clears the way for smooth shifting.

2) The 328i felt a little sportier given its slightly lighter weight. It just felt like it handled, accelerated and braked an instant sooner than the 528i.

3) Oddly enough, the 328i has just a hair more legroom (a combined 0.1 of an inch between the front and back seats) than the 528i. I have two children still in booster seats, and for them, that translates to more "foot room" given that their feet hang just at the narrowest point between the front of the back seat and the back of the front seat.

4) If I am not mistaken, the 528i could not be had with an in-dash CD player in 1999, whereas on the 328i, it was just a $200 option.

Given that we are now three model years down the road, the CD issue is no more, and with the advent of the more powerful 3.0-liter engine, the acceleration difference may well be negligible at this point. I have not checked the armrest in the new 530i, BMW may have redesigned it by now, or you may want an automatic transmission which will certainly eliminate the problem altogether.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Shipo

mainsail2

For those of you who purchase tires through tirerack.com; doesn't the shipping cost for tires outweigh the cost advantages of your purchase? Also, where do you go to have the tires mounted, wheels balanced and installed? I think I would feel uncomfortable taking tires that I purchased at tirerack.com to someone else (who sells tires), to perform the service. It seems like they might overcharge you for their service out of spite.

ccotenj

actually, there's a list of tire installers on their website who will put them on for you, along with the price they charge. even better, most of them will allow you to drop ship them at their location, so you don't even have to haul them around...

-Chris

MarkinAtlanta

Well, occassionally there is that rare exception that proves the rule. Tirerack has a feature on its home page, type in your zip code and it provides a list of installers. Getting someone to mount there tires is no problem, hey to the installer, money is money. Even with shipping, I saved $200 on a Set of Yokohama AVS intermediates vs what they cost at NTB.

MarkinAtlanta

You're fast.

ccotenj

ah, i'm just mindlessly doing data entry today, so i happened to wander over...

-Chris

brave1heart

The 330 is still almost a full second faster than the 530 0-60 and the gap widens at higher speed. The 530 is very close to the 325 acceleration-wise. At any rate, it is more than sufficient for everyday spirited driving.

brave1heart

I am afraid you are not in a good position: the '02 model just came out and on top of that, the xi has been in such high demand that you could not even order it for since June-July. You should be able to get it about $1,000 cheaper in the Spring but if you do need it now, you'd have to pay MSRP or close to that. FWIW, here's my short takes on the Boston area dealers:
BMW Peabody - best overall
Herb - too crowded, hard to negotiate
Gallery in Norwood - crooks
Gallery on the Cape - OK but more expensive
Foreign Motors West - did not make it over there
Nashua Tulley - heard good things but state transfer may be a pain

If you'd like, drop me an e-mail with your specs and I'll see if my salesperson at Peabody can do anything for you. She has helped at least two people from this board already, although, again, the xi may be tough to bargain for right now.

brave1heart

The ramps here in Albany are so much better than those in the Boston area - they are all different, typically very tight and wide at the same time with perfectly even pavement. It's a real pleasure driving here, especially with the beautiful foliage right now. Anyone looking for a nice weekend drive - The Mohawk Trail, the Catskills and Rt. 9J overlooking the Hudson River are all great!!

habitat1

I will be going through the same dilemma in a couple of months. I am leaning to the 530i because, although leg room isn't that much greater, the width (hip and shoulder room) in the back seat is just enough bigger to make the car usable on trips for my family (2 daughters still in booster seats). The 330i, as much as I like it, just is a bit too tight to make a 750 mile round trip weekend trip too cramped. And I don't want to be relegated to taking our Trooper, except under snow conditions.

Also, I need to test drive both again to confirm my initial impressions, but I was very impressed with the lack of body roll and tightness of the 530i with sport package. I felt that it gave up a little to the 330i sport in "in town" driving, but felt even more stable at higher highway speeds and "sweeping" curves as others have described. Make sure you test drive the 530 with a sport package.

Finally, the 530 vs. 330 is a tougher choice than the 528 vs. 328 of a couple of years ago. The added power seems to have somewhat offset the weight disadvatage.

jfedor1

I live in NYC, but I used to go to SUNY Albany. Last weekend I went up to visit and found RT 9J, thanks to your past posts about it. It was great. I had just passed break in about 2k, I now have almost 3k.

Where is the Mohawk Trail, and the Catskills drive?

I also just bought the CD changer kits, anybody have advice or experience installing it?

Thanks
Josh 01' 325 5-speed BLK/gry/cd/PP/HS/

genie1

I just installed the 6-disk unit in my car last weekend. It was easy as pie following the instructions.

My car is a 98 coupe and all it required was to locate the two connectors in the trunk, attach them to the corresponding parts of the unit, screw in the 2 nuts and one bolt. That's it.

The most time consuming part was the time I spent at Home Depot figuring out what size nuts/bolts I needed. When I got back I found that the size was indicated on the detailed instructions.

I'm sure the E46 versions will also be as simple. Check out the e46fanatics.com site for detailed instructions as well.

I got a great deal on the (used) changer - $251.50 Canadian (including the $1.50 for the hardware)

shipo

When I was shopping, I actually took the booster seats from my (then) current car and put them into the 328i and the 528i. I then set the front seats to my personal comfort and then installed my children into the booster seats. There was no question that the 3-Series had more usable room for their feet to hang between the seats. Obviously, a lot of this is dependent on your preferred seating position for the front seats.

On your next trip to the dealership, you might want to repeat my experiment of three years ago. I would be curious to see if any of the tweaks that BMW has instituted over the last three model years has changed the result.

Best Regards,
Shipo

silverprincess

Although I didn't really shop around to compare prices, I bought my Michelin Pilot Sports 225/45ZR-17 @ tirerack.com for $179 each; no tax, plus shipping ($29.02), total = $745.02. The local Discount Tires Store wanted $285/each for the same tire! Also, tirerack's staff is very helpful and knowledgable. I had the wheels/tires installed at a "highly recommended" shop (Tires Unlimited) and they only charged me $20 per for installation and balancing, $80 total! The only catch was I was stupid to listen to the mechanic who told me the tires are supposed to be inflated to 45psi on all fours instead of BMW recommended 30/35 (thanks to the helpful folks on this board), which by the way the ride is much better now - better traction, handling, etc.

mmcbride1

All you need to do is show them what Tirerack charges and they'll come within a few dollars and then you still have the Discount Tire service. My sister just got new tires for her 4Runner. They wanted to charge her $119 each for them, but I found them at Tirerack for $73 each. Discount Tire went down to $79 each and my sis still gets her tires rotated and balanced for free whenever she needs it and flats fixed for free, too.

bmw_guy

Hey Wuhsi,
I am in the market to get a deal for my BMW, in the Boston Area. I already made a deal with herb chambers. If you are interested, I can give you details. You can email me if ou like at
srik4bmw@yahoo.com

Best of luck

brave1heart

Here's a very good link for the Mohawk Trail. We did it last Sunday and it awesome. The further you go West, the better driving gets. I think the foliage will be perfect THIS weekend (it was not quite peak last weekend)

http://www.weather.com/outlook/driving/scenicdrives/?sd=ma/mohawk.jsp

I am not as familiar with the Catskills (been there just once) but Rt. 23A West of the Catskills was great.

jfedor1

Thanks, I'll be driving to Binghamton this weekend, that should be nice too.
I might do that drive next weekend.

Josh

shap1

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this. In the last month or so (approx. 2500 miles on car) I've noticed that when I first start my car in the morning (325i step) and BARELY touch the accelerator to pull out of the driveway (in drive, not reverse) the car lurches forward very quickly. That's the only time it happens. Once the car is on the road, it's fine.

ccotenj

has the temperature changed? i.e. has it gotten colder out?

-Chris

jasonkureejii

Yes. I also get the same result every morning I drive to work. Around 2000 miles, I also noticed this after letting it idle for that first 30-40 secs in the morning before work, the car is very responsive (or what you call jumpy). After driving it around for awhile, it is not as responsive. I don't see any problem with that, however. I've also posted before that it does idle a tad bit rough during that first 30-40 secs before the RPMs drop from 900 to 600. I now have 3600 miles on it after about 10 weeks.

habitat1

..I will take the car seats to the dealership to repeat your experiment. To be honest, I was only looking rear seat width with the 5-series, not leg room.

With our Maxima (1995), in a pinch (figuratively speaking) my wife (5'1", 105 lbs) can sit in the middle of the back seat between the two car seats. I am pretty sure that this would not be possible in the 3, and maybe not even in the 5.

I will reinvestigate.

P.S. I found it useful to take my own measurements with a tape measure. When purchasing the Maxima, the Accord claimed to have more rear leg seat room. As it turns out, I believe the way the manufacturer calculates this is to push the front seats all the way back and then take the measurement from the back seat. With the Maxima, the driver's seat has so much travel compared to the Accord that it diminished its rear seat measurement. When I did a similar experiment to yours, I set the driver's seat to my preferred setting on each car and found the Maxima to have 2" more rear leg room than the Accord (rather than 1.5" less). Quite a difference.

jlo_one

Hello,
I've driven the new 330i bmw sedans and have been very disappointed in the steering. You don't feel the curves, there's too much power steering being applied.

Does anyone know of a solution? Perhaps a auto shop can modify it? I drove one that had the power removed, but it still didn't feel right.

thank you

dave330i

if your 330i is MY2001, you can call BMWUSA and have the steering box retrofited.

derprofi

The newest 330i sedans should be MY2002 build. Do you know exactly how new the "new" one you drove was? I have a feeling maybe you were driving one of the cars built earlier in MY2001.

dantlo

I dont think you have that much more leg room in the 5series, but pay attention to the width or the shoulder room. Once you have a car seat in the middle you will feel the big difference between the two in width. The 5 is much more comfortable.

But if I was shopping again now, I would not think twice. Definitely 530i.
Dan

new330owner

I haven't posted anything for a while, but I placed an order in July for a steel blue 330i with steptronic transmission. Somehow, BMW messed up the order, and I had to start all over again. Now instead of getting the car mid-October (which would have been about now ), I have a week 44 production date (end of October). In the meantime, though, I spent time in a friends 325 with manual tranny, and I decided to skip the automatic and spend the $1200 on the sport package instead. Now, if this car ever gets here, I'll have a real sports monster on my hands! My question is this: when I move back to the midwest in a couple of years, will it be a problem to put all-season tires on the sport wheels (particularly the 8" wide wheels in the rear)? I've heard the nightmares about sport tires in the snow. Also, does anyone have any input about the loudness of the wider sport tires?
Thanks.

dave330i

first off, congrats on making the right choice (SP w/manual) ;-). Personally, I don't find the sport tires loud at all (BTW is it MY2001 or 02?), but it's dependent on personal background.

Most members on this board recommend getting a dedicated steel rims and tires for winter driving.

new330owner

Thanks for the input, Dave330i. It will be a 2002. I'm curious about what the aerodynamic package that comes with the sport will look like for 2002. Also, I know this topic has already been beaten to death, but do 330i's with the sport package still have the titanium headlight surrounds? And if they don't, can the surrounds be purchased separately (I think the titanium surrounds look GREAT with the steel blue paint).

dhw328i

I recently drove a 2002 330i (Premium package, automatic) and was disappointed that the razor-sharp feel I certainly had with my 1997 328i and somewhat with the 1999 328i is apparently a thing of the past. My salesperson had told me the floaty steering with the 2001's had been addressed and BMW had returned the feel to something between the 1999's and 1997's. NOT! It is still overboosted in my opinion. I have to admit the 2002 I drove did not have a manual transmission or the sports package but I question how much of a difference that would have made. Like many BMW fans, I fear the company has given in to soccer moms and suburbanites.

shipo

Well if the 2002 steering is over boosted as you suggest, I am going to have to just add a year to the lease on my 1999 328i, which expires next spring. That is kind of a drag because I was looking forward to the extra power of the 3.0-liter engine and I kind of like the new front treatment of the 2002 sedans.

I guess I will have to wait until the new M6 comes out. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

lotus18

Does the sport pkge include power, memory front seats with tilt-down passanger side mirror ? The premium package has this feature too. For those who picks both sport and premium package, do they have to pay double for the power seats?
Thanks.

smarties139

wuhsi1: Avoid Foreign Motor West, the saleperson didn't negotiate and raised his voice on customers with arrogant attitude. I second Brave's recommendation, Mary Galvin at Peabody is great! Even the price is not in big difference, you would think the customer service is worth it.

dhanley

When i bought tires last time, discount tire price matched tire rack, and tacked on a few bucks for shipping. It's worth it to me to get local service.

I wil use costco next, because they seem to do good work ( they really use torque wrenches & torque to spec ) and they cost same as tire rack.

dave

dl7265

My 323i Sport came with Turanza er30s which i like but like most z rated wore out at 25k with careful driving, and a high price being a factory tire.

Ive allways had good luck with discount tire, i show then the ad prices and they match or some with in a few dollars. anyways to the surveys.

for $77.00 and a #3 rating looks like Kuhmo is the best buy. using the salesman from bimmer.org/tirerack he recommended Yoko avs DB at a $102.00 each. I looked at the Conti sport on special at $99.00 with were previously over $150.00 as i recall but the ratings were horrible but i supose those are subjective, I ve allways had good luck with Yokos and will prob lean that way, since that Tax rebate check came in they are free anyways .

o btw, the 5 series has a whole 2 more cubic feet interior space for another 10k or so , my choice like Shipos was easy,

Regards,
DL

jlo_one

derprofi: I drove a 2001 in september. Now i'm finding i'm not alone in this discovery. Read article in edmunds 10 best sports sedans. They discovered it too. I'm very disappointed in how it steers (no feel of the curvy roads). Evidently (from the above article on BMW) the last excellent steering was 2000 328i.

There must be a way to fix it?
hopeful...

jlo_one

dave330i: I haven't purchased it yet. I'm told the 2002 will drive the same. The dealer did say you can have "it" removed. But like I mentioned in a previous posting, I drove one that was "modified" and it still didn't feel right.

And these are test drives with the sport package. I will have to revisit a 2000 328i to compare.

wuhsi1

I am overwhelmed from all those replies. I am very appreciated at your comments and suggestions. I talked to my sales rep. (at Herb Chambers) again. He told me that there is no room for the bargain. However, he is willing to give me the BMW floormat and maybe some accessories (probably around $50). Do anyone of you think I should take the offer or try to negotiate with him a bit more? My car won't arrive after the first week of November so I should still have some time.

Thanks again!

allano

Trying to re-negotiate sounds like a dead-end street -- especially since Brave and others got the impression that Herb Chambers does not want to negotiate, no matter when you buy a car. You also sound like you have the car on order already which puts you in a weak negotiating position.
I would guess you could to do better with a visit to another dealer. With obstinate salespersons, I found the best bargaining tool is to walk out. After all, if you are going to pay the same amount, I'd rather give it to a cordial and considerate salesperson than someone who treats me poorly.
The incentives your sales person is suggesting are meager and patronizing. In the spring, Tulley in Nashua not only gave me $1500 off MSRP but also included the floor mats and wheel locks. At delivery, they included a BMW key chain and hat. I don't think they were hurting for sales since their showroom was quite busy and they did not have many new cars on the three occasions I visited them. But then again, it was February with snow on the ground.
Good luck, Alan
PS. If you do get serious about purchasing in NH and live in MA, I'll be glad to email the steps I went through. The process is not a transfer but a simple new car registration (Tulley did all the paperwork) with the RMV. You have to register the car rather than the dealer. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

jimbres

I'm a bit puzzled by the references to overboosted steering. Didn't BMW revert to the older, heavier steering for cars built after the 1st week in April? My 330i (5-speed, SP) was built in May, & the steering couldn't be better; it has a tight, "meaty" (don't know why I pick that word, but it fits) feeling that's incredibly satisfying. Certainly the steering in my car is heavier than the steering in the coupe that I test-drove early in the year.

shipo

My understanding of the history of the E46 steering is as follows:

1999 - Original heavy steering
2000 - Same as 1999
2001 - Initial production, VERY LIGHT
2001 - January 2001 through April 2001, improved, but still light
2001 - May 2001 through June 2001, heavier still, but still not there
2001 - July 2001 and later, heaviest of the 2001 models, not as heavy as Original
2001 - All builds prior to July 2001 Retrofit, similar to the July 2001 steering
2002 - SUPPOSED to be an entirely new steering assembly taken from the new 318i, similar in feel to 1999

I know that these dates are NOT the official line from BMW, however, they are as close as my feeble memory can come up with, without lots of research. Brave1heart and others who have had to deal with the 2001 steering issue are more of an authority than I am. If any of you have better/more accurate information, please e-mail me (my address is in my profile) and I will update this list with the penultimate data.

Best Regards,
Shipo

vishnu11

Just adding to the registration process for a car bought out of state: 2 years ago I bought my Lexus from carorder.com (which has since shut doors) - it was based in TX, they brokered for the car to be picked from a Edison, NJ dealer. In MA, the car cannot be delivered to you nor can you drive without plates and insurance. So I had to coordinate it so that carorder, the dealership and my insurance agent here communicated with all the paperwork. The insurance agent actually did all the DMV work for no charge (bless his heart) because insurance folks have a different line at the DMV than we common folks do. The agent then sent the dealership the plates. The car came to my door on a flatbed with the plates all installed and a full tank of gas. I did a lot of talking communicating my understanding of the MA DMV regulations between the 3 parties, including sending a large check to a dealer I have never seen but in the end, I could not have been more pleased.

vishnu11

Just want to acknowledge this forum's help in sharing their experience with Boston area dealers.

I am in the market for a MY 02 525, and want to let people here know that their advice has been invaluable. Thanks!

dhw328i

I guess I am spoiled by the steering on my 1999 328i. Anyone who has not driven a 1999 or older model would problably be fine with the 2002 steering. I did feel a noticeable difference in the pickup for the 2002 330i compared with my 328i, though. Although the 2002 I test drove was an automatic, I had to let up a little bit on my acceleration - it felt that much quicker to me. The salesperson also had me drive a 2001 330i to compare the steering, and I did not find the difference between the two significant. I am also wrestling with keeping my 328i another year to see what BMW does for 2003.

shipo

It seems that you and I have a lot in common. For instance, if I had created my user name with my three initials and my car id, it would be "dhs328i", pretty close.

As for the 2002 E46 steering, I wonder if BMW is busy using up the parts supply from the 2001 cars before switching to the 2002 rack from the new 318i, which is supposed to have a great feel. Just speculation, however, a similar thing occured earlier this year when BMW switched from the Light-Light to the Semi-Light steering. If I remember correctly, BMW announced that 1-Apr-2001 was supposed to be the date for the new steering, however, many here did not notice the change until the 1-May-2001 production cars.

Once again, this is mere speculation.

Best Regards,
Shipo

alpine325i

Hi guys, It's been a long time and here's what happened so far. In august I traded in my 01' 325I for a 02 Trans Am Ram Air (dumbest move that I ever made), Got caught drag racing and got my license suspended for 6 months :O( (even dumber than the last move). Then I traded in the Ram Air for a 02' VW Beetle GLX 1.8T, black on black, 17" wheels and CD changer. The Beetle is like a little space ship and is fun to drive, but I really miss the awesome precision and feel of my 01' BMW. As soon as I get my license back I'm going to trade in the Beetle and buy or lease an 02' 330I. I must have been totally out of my mind when I traded in the BMW. I miss that car so much, I can't wait to get into my next one. I test drove my cousins new Audi, then drove my dad's friends Mercedes, but neither one felt quite like the BMW. I was bitten by the BMW bug, now I don't want drive anything other than a BMW. Alp :O)

woody02

Any comments appreciated. First post from longtime owner of a 325. Time to get a new one. Checked out selection at John Roberts in Austin today. My limit is $35K. There was one titanium silver sedan, AT, SP, PP, xenons, CD, and leather that stickered at $35,635. Salesman offered $1500 off sticker right away. Car has 250 miles on it showing it to be a demo. Salesman will do $500 off a 2002. Good deal or should I be able to get it closer to invoice price since the '02s are now out? Invoice is $32,025. Thanks.

shipo

Hey Alp,

Let me be the first to welcome you back to the fold, we've been missing your stories and comments on this board.

Sorry about the "Pontiac" thing.
Even sorrier (is that a word?) about the license thing.
And, well, about "The BMW Thing", I always had faith in you that you would be back behind the wheel of a BMW again soon. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

derprofi

The target good deal for a 2002 seems to be the same as for 2001: $1500 over invoice price. It's possible that $1500 off sticker for a 2001 with 250 miles is a hot deal for Texas, but based on the pricing I'm getting from my dealer here in the DC area, a 2002 with those options could be had around here for about $33,600.

If you're willing to cut back on your options, $35K can get you into a 2002 330i if you do European Delivery. My 2002 steel gray 330i with SP, CWP, bi-xenons and moonroof will be $34,285 excluding taxes and tags. 6 weeks and counting...