BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

eugiebaange

...after some punk with no insurance "hit-and-run"-ed me a couple of weeks ago %$#!*&^!

The police found him (thanks to my fine detective work) and I *am* pressing charges. Still, I need
to get my car fixed.

Anyone have stories to relate -good or bad- about
San Francisco/Peninsula body shops?

I'm thinking of SF BMW or Joe's Auto Body or Hack's - the last two in Pacifica.

I'll take any recommendations you care to give.

Thanks.

cnorthrup

I was afraid of that... I will stick with the 17in. just to be safe.

I will talk with tirerack as to why they recommend the 16in., as their preferred winter package.

Thanks,
CNorthrup

brave1heart

16s are fine on the 325; the 330 requires 17s. You will be perfectly fine with the 16's on your 325. The 17's do not improve handling in snow but will definitely make the snows you have to buy more expensive.

shipo

Ooops! Maybe I missed something, I thought that CNorthrup had a 330i. Brave1heart is correct, the 325i will do nicely with 16" wheels. As a point of reference it is my understanding that the minimun wheel size for the various E46 models is a follows:

323i - 15"
325i - 16"
328i - 16"
330i - 17"

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dave330i

Does anyone have any idea how long it takes from the time BMWNA calls you, and taking your car into the dealer to get it done? My dealer is telling me they're still waiting on the steering box ordered almost a month ago.

eugiebaange

joefriday

If you go to bimmer.org you can see some pictures someone has posted of the 16" wheel from Tirerack on his 330i. He claims that there is about 1/8" clearance between wheel and brake.

I, too, have been wondering if a 16" tire is better in snow than a 17" tire of the same width and outer diameter. I do know that the higher profile of the 16" tire will help prevent the wheel from getting bent from all the pot holes. For that reason, and because you can get dedicated winter tires at 16" but mostly only performance/winter tires at 17", I think I'll go with the 16" wheel for my 330i.

jrct9454

I note that most replies to your original query focus on cars other than the direct competitors you cite. I have driven both, and indeed, the decision would be a very difficult one.

The 325 sedan comparably equipped tends to be about $1500-$2500 more expensive than a C230 Coupe. For my purposes, since I want no sunroof and no other extras except automatic and metallic paint, the difference between the two is almost exactly $2000. That difference can be reduced to almost zero through EU delivery, [assuming of course you plan to go anyway], since MB's EU plan now includes no price break worth talking about.

Leaving the price question aside, I would say the cars are comparably comfortable; the 3er is quieter [noise from the hatch area in the C-Coupe]; handling [stock base here, no "packages"] is a wash; performance in a straight line is also a wash; utility definitely goes to the C-Coupe; esthetics are a matter of debate. It's not the rear end of the C230 so much as the way the rear wheel arches are shallow, which makes it look extra chubby in the rear quarter.

Bottom line: I would break the tie based on the quality of the local dealers, and your confidence in their respective abilities to solve problems and take care of you. At a slight tangent to that issue, I should add that MB gets a mild edge for having a roadside assistance program that really works, as opposed to the hire-an-auto-club approach that BMW uses [there are been several negative experiences posted on this very board].

I've owned 13 Mercedes and 4 BMWs since 1966, and belong to both national clubs, so no axes to grind at my house. I think the 325 sedan and a C230 Coupe are indeed extremely close competitors, especially if you exercise restraint with the options. For me, US MSRP would be $27.6k for the C and $29.5k for the 3er. At that price you are getting the CD included for 2002 in the price of the 3er [extra in the MB] and the trip computer in the C [extra in the BMW]. I say drive both, if you haven't, and let us know what you think.

Understand, this is not a general 3er vs C comparison...I have no interest in a debate about a C320 vs a 330i...neither one is priced in an area where I intend to visit right now, and I am sure there are others who don't want to spend more than $30k for whom that discussion is interesting but irrelevant.

bmw_guy

Hey guys...
Recently I saw a M3 with gull wings, The beauty is called Laguna Seca II by Hamann.
I was just wondering if I could get those gullwinged doors on my 325(or 330)

genie1

I was thinking along the same lines myself. My brother REALLY wants the MB (including the sunroof).

The MB dealer we visited was great. So much so that our friend who was along for the ride decided to buy a car from him a week later.

There's at least one decent BMW dealer in town and several OK ones.

I know that I would look at both when its time to upgrade (not for a couple of years, though)

I really love the handling of my Bimmer. I've only been a passenger in the MB so far. But this Saturday promises to be sunny and pleasant so I'll test it for myself.

kominsky

THANKS! I thought that the 16" package in the TireRack ads was a screw-up, but I was just over at bimmer.org looking around and in the tire forum, Jim from TireRack confirms that those particular 16" wheels will fit.

cnorthrup

Spoke with guy at "Tirerack" about the 16in wheel fitting on the 330i.

He said they had a 16 in. wheel custom made to fit the 330i. It is "AT Italia, Type 5, SML" (16x7.5) at $165 a pop. You have to use the winter package search section of their site to see this.

It looks like I would save only about $20 going with the Dunlop Winter Sport M2's 205/55-16's with the above mentioned wheels as opposed to the Dunlop Winter Sport M2's 205/50-17's with the 17x7.5 Sport Edition Valore ($129 a pop).

CNorthrup

ajvdh

First of all, why? After you've shown all your friends your nifty doors a few times, the fact that you can't get into your car if someone's parked within 4 feet of you would be grating.

If you want to do it, I'm sure Haman'd do your car for you if you handed 'em a big enough pile o' cash (my guess is there'd be 5 digits between the dollar sign and decimal point). Their US distributor is Wheelpower:

http://www.wheelpower.com

cnorthrup

I have a 330i on order and unfortunately no not have any other BMW's.

I was noting that tirerack had a 16 inch "steel wheel" that would fit the 325i with the sports package, but there was not a 16 inch "steel wheel" (only the alloy) that would fit the 330i.

There are several posts since my original on this topic that probably clarify it all.

Thanks to All,
CNorthrup

brave1heart

jrct9454 - I disagree with your statement that the 325 sedan and C230 Coupe are extremely close competitors". The C coupe would be a close competitor to the 3-series compact (the replacement for the 318ti). There is a substantial difference in length (176 vs 171 inches), although the C coupe's wheelbase (106 inches) is incredibly long for this size car. To me, the 3-series looks like a swan and the C coupe is like the ugly duck.

jrct9454

...but in terms of usable room inside both the people area and the cargo area, the two cars are extremely close, with some measurements in favor of the C-coupe. The overall length is another of those things that in my mind is simply irrelevant to the comparison. For me, the smallest package that gets the job done is always to be preferred. Too bad BMW has cold feet when it comes to the new Compact 3er for our market...what was wrong with the old one is completely fixed with the new one, but they apparently think no one will notice. Oh well...

novcenthusiast

The 3 series compact has the same wheelbase as the sedan (107.3 inches). So I guess it's incredibly long as well.

bmw_guy

Yeah i guess...I just missed that the wings open outside. Now that is a big inconvenience.

Actually my concept was a slightly a different one. I was thinking of doors opening upside

Like Now it opens like this :
___ ___ __ ___ __
[|___|] /|___|\ |___|


In my concept it rolls on the hinge, to open.Like below
___ ___ | ___ |
[|___|] '|___|' |___|

May be I should email my idea to Hamann..And probably they would like my idea and do it free on my car

Thanks Anyways Bud

bmw_guy

conneen

Hey Everyone,

I think I finally decided on my first BMW. A 2002 325xi Dark Blue Ext/Tan Interior. With every option except Sport Package.

Two things I think I have going in my favor. 1) I'm not trading anything in, less work for the dealer. 2) I'm preapproved (at 6.19%) from a outside finance company, also less work for the dealer. I plan to use both of these to my advantage.

The MSRP on this car is $39,570. The invoice is $35,465. I don't know where to find the Euro Delivery Invoice, any ideas?

Now I'm hoping to get some advice. Keep in mind I have read back a few hundred posts, so hopefully I'm not asking the same questions over and over.

I live in PA, and was wondering how much over invoice you guys think I should pay if I take standard delivery or European Delivery.

Also what do you guys think of Euro Delivery?

Any tips for negotiating?

Thanks,
Brian Conneen

derprofi

Euro Delivery invoice price on the 325xi is $24,145. US invoice is $26,125. I'm doing ED in about 4 weeks and I'm really looking forward to it. Which you choose depends on how patient you are. If you can't (or don't want to) wait the extra 6 weeks it takes for a ED car to be transported back to the US after you drop it off, then there's your answer.

Whatever you decide, you might want to start with an offer of $1500 (including all dealer advertising, doc and prep fees but excluding taxes, tags and destination) over invoice price with all options added at invoice price. If they balk, just point out to them that there are dealers in MD and VA who will and that you're willing to drive a little if need be.

MarkinAtlanta

Best way to save a little money. Pare down your options list. Everybody has a different opinion on this of course, buy anyway mine is, leather isn't worth it, and HK upgrade isn't worth it either. Strips of wood around the cabin interior is a waste of money too. And, I like the 5sp too. Good luck, great car.

dave330i

740i last night. It's a pretty big, heavy car, but it handled much better than any other big cars I've driven. It's nice to see BMW maintaining its focus on "sport" throughout its lineup.

hgeyer

I'm close to purchasing a 330i and was wondering what people's opinions are of Leatherette. I have bad memories of Vinyl, but can't imagine that BMW would sell a cheaply made material.

Thanks

shipo

Have no fear, BMW leatherette is a high quality product, many say that it will out last the leather offering. The leather is also a very high quality product and given my experience should easily last the life of the car.

I guess at this point, it just becomes a matter of personal preference, they are both good choices.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shawn325i

and am very happy with it.

dave330i

Vinyl is cheaper, and almost maintaince free. Cow is more expensive, and you need to treat it several times a year, but has that cow smell. It depends on what you like, and how you option your car.

genie1

I looked at pre-owned (OK, used) coupés and found that for some of them the leather wore out on the right side (from the seatbelt). The leatherette looked and felt great (as good as new) even after a couple of years of wear.

I ended up with cloth seats (a no-cost option in Canada) and of all the features the leatherette is the one thing I wish I had.

Of course in colder climes the heated seats are essential for non-cloth interiors and nice with cloth. (esp. with the sunroof open in Fall/Spring)

I'm not sure how good the leatherette feels in warmer areas (Florida, Georgia?). Do you Southerners get soaked? In that case I'd aim for cooled seats.

brave1heart

I have 'ette in my 325i and I like it for its practicality. I still think that leather looks marginally better (I like it especially when it's wearing out nicely), it smells nice and will not get quite as hot as 'ette on hot days. Even though you have to maintain it once every couple of months, it would be nice to have it but I personally would not pay $1,450 for it. It all depends on how you option your car - if you get the wood, nav and other luxury options, the leather would be more in line with the overall theme of the car. If you go for sport, leather should be low on your list of priorities.

aldubya

Have noted that my alloy wheels on my 2001 325xi (leased new in Apr/2001)are peeling along the rim edge on the driver side, both front and rear wheels. Car has less than 6K miles. I returned to dealer where I purchased car. BMW NA rep will be in town tomorrow to see if it is "warranty" item or not. Anyone had a similar experience or any comments?
Al

parsonguy

I love the 325i and don't want the xi because of the extra weight, extra clearance, and extra money. But I live in Minnesota. Am I crazy? I've driven lots of RWD vehicles in snow and ice and never had a problem. I'd like to hear from you.

ccotenj

well, i grew up in new england and never owned a fwd... i live in jersey now, and although we don't get as much snow as minnesota, we do probably get more ice than you do... i don't have a problem with my 3er... snow tires are a "must"... but if you've been dealing with winter your whole life, you already know that an educated right foot and a little common sense is 95% of driving in the junk...

-Chris

hippo168

I have black leatherette. So far *ALL* the people who saw/sat in my car had thought it was real leather before I told them it is not...

I think the darker leatherette looks just like the real one, with lower maintenance. And I saved some $$ to get other options.

gms13

Are snow tires a MUST in New Jersey on a 325i with DSC?

ccotenj

yes.

2 reasons off the top of my head...

1) even with dsc, snows give you more "grip-tion" (to make up a word).

2) performance tires turn into ROCKS when the temperature gets cold. even with no snow/ice on the road, they get mighty slippery.

-Chris

shipo

I have the standard all season tires on my 328i (Michelin MXV4 Plus Green) and have been through the better part of three winters already and there was only one day that I wished I had snow tires.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ccotenj

all-seasons are a different story... different compounds... different tread patterns...

i won't go into my usual diatribe... oh what the heck...

in my mind, all-seasons are a poor compromise in both summer and winter... but, as usual, ymmv...

-Chris

brave1heart

Advantage of snows:
- much better traction in snow and ice
- better traction on dry roads when it is very cold (warm up faster)

Disadvantages:
- worse handling on dry roads
- less stable at high speed
- they wear out too fast on dry roads
- they are noisier
- ride is choppier
- money
- hassle mounting them
- hassle storing the other tires

It would be WISE to put on snows if you do a lot of driving in snow and/or very cold temperature. It is definitely not a must, especially "... if you've been dealing with winter your whole life, you already know that an educated right foot and a little common sense is 95% of driving in the junk". For the other 5% that are part of the equation, snows would be helpful. In most of Europe, the vast majority of drivers have dedicated summer tires and dedicated winter tires. However, roads here are much better-maintained even in the North and if highway driving is most of what you do, non-winter tires will be fine.

shipo

In my case, I do not now nor am I likely to ever autocross my 328i. In addition, while I am more than happy to take the odd curvy road and freeway ramp at some seriously extra legal speeds, I have only gotten my car to slide once, and that was on a wet shaded winding mountain road after a rainstorm (I went back and drove it again ;-)).

Ninety percent of my driving is doing the “Old Freeway Crawl” to and from work in rush hour. For my purposes, the silica impregnated all-season rubber (silica makes the rubber flexible even when very cold) on my car is more than acceptable. Not only does the standard rubber give me enough traction in dry, wet and snowy conditions, they last anywhere from two and a half to three times as long.

So, a few questions I will answer for myself prior to ordering my 330i next spring:

Do I want to have tires that require replacing every 20 to 25 thousand miles in exchange for a little more stick (in warm dry conditions) when compared to the standard all season tires?

Do I want to be forced to buy new wheels and tires for the wimpy winters (I grew up driving RWD vehicles in Northern Michigan, where they have REAL winters) we have here in Northern New Jersey?

At this point, the answer is a resounding NO!

On the other hand, if I could order the seats that come with the SP as a separate option, I would probably pop for them. Even then, I may still order the SP for the seats and because I like the look of wider rubber on my cars (I guess that makes me something of a poseur). If I do order the SP, I will certainly replace the sticky rubber with all season rubber when the original tires wears out.

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart

As always, your reasoning makes a lot of sense. I, personally, would choose all-seasons over summer tires if I had to replace the summer tires with snow every winter for the reasons I stated above. Performance tires do give you better handling and braking than all-seasons when the car is pushed hard but in everyday driving, the advantage is only marginal. One of the disadvantages of performance tires is that even the best ones are not as transient as all-seasons. You do get that "on rails" handling but if they slip, they go fast with little warning. Sure, you can pull in a better time on the track with great performance tires but the all seasons can be just as much fun when you're eating up that highway ramp fast. Oh, and assuming that a set of 4 performance tires is $1,000 and you get 20-25K out of them, that makes 4 cents a mile for the tires alone!!! All seasons would end up costing less than half that because of the added mileage you get with them.

Having said all that, I do love the sport pack on my 325 and I am willing to pay for the difference. I most certainly understand why a lot of people do not want to do that, though.

shipo

One of the concessions that I have had to make being a parent with a VERY full day is no longer having time to read all of the car magazines. In days gone by (pre children) I subscribed to virtually every car mag. available here in the states (except for Motor Trend, although I cannot remember why). After my son was born, I cut my subscriptions back to just AutoWeek, and even then I had a hard time keeping up. When my daughter was born, that was it, no more magazines, NONE. That means that one of my major sources if information is missing, which is why I am going to ask the following question.

Has there been a tire comparison article from one of the major magazines recently? More specifically, one which compares sticky rubber against touring rubber against all-season rubber. I ask this because I have been delightfully surprised at the ability of the all season tires that came on my car. Three years ago, on this very message board, I (among others) wondered how soon after buying our non SP equipped cars, that we would feel the need to upgrade the tires. After >30,000 miles, such fears have proven to be unfounded, however, I cannot help but wonder how much crisper my car would handle with tires that match the size of the SP tires except in all season type rubber. Put another way, what would be the difference in handling between a 330i with the stock SP rubber, a 330i SP with exact size replacement all-season tires and a stock 330i?

Any thoughts?

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo

You and I are actually in very enviable positions, our wives have vehicles that are better suited to the snow, and we get to drive them when necessary. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo

The other day I was helping answer a question over on the 5-Series board and I was doing some research on the 530i. I was stunned to find out that the 530i came from the factory with stock 16” wheels! The implication here is that the slightly larger and heavier, but otherwise just a powerful 530i actually has smaller brakes than the 330i, could this be?

Unless my guess is WAY off, the information suggests that the 530i has the same smaller brakes that come/came on the 325i/328i.

Any comments?

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo

Four consecutive posts by me, OHHHH, I hope I do not turn into v_tech.

bmw323is

Shipo, I get three of the car magazines (no kids!). Here are two things that come to my mind. First, in a Car and Driver editorial, one writer wrote in favor of all seasons. They cost less, last longer and are just as much fun to drive on twisty roads - just at a bit slower of a pace. They will squeal a bit, but then you know your going fast enough. (All their paraphrased words). On the other hand, every time they do comparo articles, they downgrade the car without performance tires. Lately the BMW 330xi came in third out of three cars (Audi S4, Subaru WRX) because it wasn't the best handling (on all season tires).

To confuse things more, I see BF Goodrich now advertising a new tire - the g-force T/A KDWS (D=dry, W=wet, S=snow). They cited Automoblie magazine rating the g-force T/A as the best ultra high performance tire. And now they built one for all season 'performance'. I know that everyone will say you can't have your cake and eat it too. But I wonder if there are really tires that are a good compromise. I grew up in northern Wisconsin and now live in Colorado. I too, know snow and ice. I now drive a 4WD on the bad winter days, but when I get rid of it I don't know what I will decide to do. One thing is for sure. Driving in winter around here on the Conti Sports would be a GUARANTEED wreck. I tried it once and hope to never get caught in significant snow again. But in the summer, while driving on those mountain roads with the performance tires - I don't stop smiling for days. Buying and storing a set of four wheels/tires and changing them twice a year doesn't enthuse me much, but that is probably what I'll do. Maybe this is a bit like the lady asking the Ferrari salesman "where do you put the groceries?"

Sorry this is so long. Dave

bluewolf

Can I trust the BMW website for accurate pricing?
Any such thing as a good deal, or does everybody pay MSRP for a 3-series?

What's a realistic price on a 5-spd 325i, HK, 'ette, sport susp, xenons?

Considering the 325i against the Saab 9-3, Volvo S60, and Audi A4. Any objective opinions here?

shipo

Dave,

Thanks for the "Heads Up" on the g-Force T/A KDWS, it looks like a great candidate when new tires are needed.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo

The BMW web site has perfectly accurate pricing information. As far as deals, right about now (2002s are just hitting the dealerships), $1,000 off MSRP is very good. A few months from now, you might be able to find some dealers who will be a little more flexable on price.

Another option to consider is Euro-Delivery, you can more than pay for a trip to the other side of the pond with the ED discount.

Best Regards,
Shipo

pen101

For pricing also check carsdirect.com. They seem to be very competitive, at least in my zip code. Am curious what you think.

dhanley

I do have the all season/performance michelins on my car, and one time i did want snows.. I was stuck in an icy lot that had about a 5%-7% grade, but was pretty rutty. I got in some ruts, and was unable to get my car out wihtout some help. Some guys gave me a push, and once i got moving, though, i was fine--the car scooted right out. I've heard similar stories. Other times, i've seen ice & snow i chugged right through, with caution & periodic angry DSC noises.

That's been the only incident, but i see snow&ice relatively rarely.

dave