BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

brave1heart

parsonguy - You described the problems with the A4 very well. It's a great car but unless you do need AWD, the 3-series is a better choice. We have both the 325i and the A4 1.8T and while I love the A4, I lust after the 325. You run out of breath in first and second very quickly with the A4...

Windshield replacement - it is 100% covered by my insurance company (no questions asked) and I have always been advised by the glass shop to leave the car there overnight so the glass can set. Don't do the mobile service - you'd be compromising your safety.

Single malt scotch - I've always wanted to go on a scotch-drinking tour of Scottish distilleries... Play some golf, drink some scotch, nap, then play golf AND drink at the same time )

shipo

It seems that great minds think along similar patterns, I was writing my message while you posted yours. I live in Northern Bergen County, less than a mile from BMW NA, I wonder if I could set up a tour of their facilities prior to any Tasting Party.

It seems that there are a lot of folks here that live in and around the NYC metro area, and many others that could make the drive without too much trouble from DC to Toronto.

As it turns out, I have a driveway that is about 500' long (long story), I can just see it now, 25 E46s all in a row parked in the drive. What will the neighbors think? ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart

If you like smoke and spice, try Lagavulin. This one is definitely an acquired taste. I didn't like it for a while but the taste sticks to you and you keep trying it till you love it... Glenfiddich is always a popular choice but I like Glenlivet better - it seems to have a bit more taste.

shipo

I have yet to try Lagavulin, thanks for the heads up. I like Glenlivet better than Glenfiddich as well, however, the Glenfiddich 18 is a different story. Stop by and give it a try.

Best Regards,
Shipo

ccotenj

sign me up! not that far from s. jersey to bergen county, that's for sure!

-Chris

ps. i'll park my e36 around the corner, so no one will see it...

shipo

Sorry Chris, E36s (and E30s and even E21s) are more than welcome as well.

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart

Didn't you mention once that you live right across the street from BMWNA's headquarters? Maybe we can get them to sponsor the event )

shipo

Actually, BMWNA is located at the corner of Chestnut Ridge Road & Glen Road; I live less than a mile from that corner on Glen Road. Incidentally, I recently saw on a Historical Society map that Glen Road has been in existence since at least the late 1700s. Given that this little road winds up a hill along the southern edge of a glen caused by Bear Creek, my guess is that it was probably an Indian path long before it was called Glen Road.

Best Regards,
Shipo

nyccarguy

I'm not sure if this topic was covered eons ago, but what is the difference between the 2.5L I-6 in the US E46 325, the 2.5L I-6 in the Eurpean E46 325, & the US E36 2.5L I-6?

US E46: 184hp, 175 ft/lbs torque
Euro E46: 192hp, Not sure of the torque rating
US E36: 189hp, 181 ft/lbs torque

I guess a better question would be to ask why the engine has less hp & torque (although not much) now than it did 7 years ago? Do you thin we are going to get the 192hp European Version of the engine in '03? What's the torque rating on that engine?

Just Curious! Thanks!

Dov

Glenfiddich 18 is excellent and tastes entirely different than the 12 or even the 15.
Dahlwinie (sp?) is my favourite, but it is quite mild.

brave1heart

The E46 2.5L I-6 engine is the same in Europe and the U.S. The HP rating calculations are slightly different in Europe and come out a little higher than U.S. ratings. 192 Euro HP is the same as 184 U.S. HP. I think they had the E36 vs. E46 engine differences explained on e46fanfatics.com - try their FAQ.

rhmass

I am in the process of choosing between the BMW 325 and the Audi A4 models. Since you have owned both cars, what is your experience with the reliability of the two cars? The A4 certainly is a lot car for the money, but if it is much less reliable, the cost difference won't matter.
Thank you for sharing your experience.

brave1heart

I'd be happy to give you my opinion but keep in mind that we have the older A4 and also that we've had both cars for less than a year. Off the top of my head, here's what we've had to do so far:

'01 325i SP
- aux fan recall
- xenon lights flickering and were replaced
- roof panel rattle
- center console rattle
- seat belt clicking noise
- coin holder jammed

Steering retrofit was an elective surgery and I would not count it - it's actually a big plus considering BMWNA paid for it.

'01 Audi 1.8T Q:
- hand brake cover came off and had to be replaced
- glove box rattle
- wipers had to be replaced at 9,500 miles
- key ring comes off often

As you can see, absolutely no mechanical problems of any sort with the A4, just cosmetic. However, the BMW has more solid feel to it and I am willing to bet that long-term reliability will be better. Overall, I think they are both reasonably reliable and well-built and you should go with whatever you like better. The BMW is likely to hold its value better over time.

rhmass

Your input certainly helps me in my decision making between the two. We have had experience with BMWs for quite a while, and are now considering getting a small wagon. Between the 325xiT and the Audi Quattro with the new 3.0 engine, I think the latter definitely is a breeze to drive. I am just concerned with its reliability.

haiya858

I've placed a special order for a BMW 330i. The dealer told me that the car will have approximately 10 miles on it when it reaches me because it will be driven onto the truck/off the truck during transportation, and will be tested by their techinician.... I called bmwusa representative, she told me that it is impossible to have 0 mileage but 10 miles is a little bit too much. How many miles you guys get once you get your special order? Appreciate your help so much!

brave1heart

I think the 325xiT would be a little too slow for my taste, especially with an auto tranny. The 3.0-ltr engine is a much better match for the added weight of a wagon. As far as wagons go, it looks like the Avant has a lot more cargo room than the xiT and you can also get it with a sport package. Isn't the 3.0-ltr Avant more expensive than the 325xiT, though?!?

brave1heart

nyccarguy

My first car (a '92 Chevy Beretta) had 6 miles on it when i picked it up (car was in stock). My second car (a '98 Ford Exploder Sport) had 19 miles on it when I picked it up (It was ordered from the factory). My Saab (also from the lot) had I believe 15 miles on it. It's no big deal. The car goes on and off the truck a few times. They drive it to fill up the tank for you. They drive the car back from the gas station. They may have a storage lot where they keep the cars maybe a mile or 2 away from the dealership. The car is road tested by a BMW technician. Think about how little 10 miles is on a car.

kominsky

* 10 miles; My car had 8.1 miles on it when I picked it up. 10 seems reasonable.

* rhmass; I, like many on this list, cross shopped the A4 and 3-series. The dealership I went to carried both so I got to drive them back-to-back. First I drove the A4. There was no doubt in my mind that it was the car for me! Coming from a long list of Japanese "transportation appliances", I was amazed at how much fun it was to drive. Then I drove the 3-series and the rest is history. The A4 is a very nice car and IMHO a better value (defined as gadgets per $), but the BMW is the drivers car between the two.

* Scotch?! Yuk! Give me a bottle of Jack and a case of Yuengling Lager, thank you very much!

I don't drink scotch AND I don't wear a watch, let alone one of those multi-hundred (thousand?) dollar fancy one's you guys discuss sometimes. Maybe I'm in the wrong place... where's that Daewoo group meeting? :-)

tenet1

tenet1

rdl40

I pick up my 330i (2001 still new on lot) tommorrow with the following options, xenons, spt. pkg, leather and cd in dash . Color is titanium silver with grey leather.
What's even better it's a 5-speed (would never drive a slushbox), all this for $900 over invoice!
Why did I even consider a A-4?

rhmass

I agree the 325xiT is a bit slow for my taste also. In terms of the price with the comparable options, the Avant 3.0 Quattro is actually about $1000 lower at MRSP because the much higher base price ($31,250 for BMW and $34,140) includes power seats, headlight washer, alarm/motion detector, CD changer, etc which are all BMW options. The all new Audi 3.0 all alum engine is very powerful. From the value point of view, I would pick Audi in a heartbeat. Being a new model gives me the pause! Since I can wait for a couple months to put in my order, I'll wait a while to decide.

roc50mg

orkwis

Sorry to let the professor in me come out, but when I hear units talk I just gotta pipe up. Braveheart is right that the horsepower is the same for both the US and Euro models, but it's technically not a calculation difference it's a units difference. In the US we calculate power using the British system unit horsepower, whereas the rest of the world usually uses the system international (SI) unit the Watt. However, for cars there is another obscure unit of power called the metric horsepower, the one they quote in Europe for automobiles. It's kind of like a Euro, almost a dollar, but not quite.

shipo

Hmmm, I agree, sort of. I cannot stand "Scotch", that said, I really like Single Malt, the two are very different animals. FWIW, I like Jack and Yuengling Lager as well. In fact, I think that the only beer that I have not liked over the years is this "Rose" stuff that I had in France. What is Rose Beer? If I remember correctly, it is a standard lager with a sweet rasberry syrup added to give it the pink color and flavor. Ugh!

My 328i had 4 miles on it when I picked it up.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dl7265

To confuse things more my 1999 323i Sport has 170hp but more torque at 181 than the current 325i has....

DL

nyccarguy

not bad. Where'd you find a dealer that still had a 2001 model? Good luck!

kominsky

shipo; I've never tried Single Malt. Maybe I'll give it a shot sometime.

the BMW owners test; http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/bmwpurity.html. My rating is "You hope to own your very own BMW one day"... which way to that Daewoo room?

brave1heart

I just found out that there is also a unit difference between the British fl. ounce and the U.S. fl. ounce. Beats me...I think the metric system is much simpler - most science in the U.S. is taught using metric units anyhow.

topspin627

In answer to an earlier post, if you want to go with all seasons on your 330i with sp, I believe your only choice is michilen pilot sports. They are the only ones when I last checked with tire rack who make the 2 different sizes needed for the wheels on the sp. Of course you could change the wheels and then have many choices.
I've been getting a clicking sound from the back of the car at odd times, sometimes over bumps and sometimes when just cruising. Any ideas what it could be?

nyccarguy

I was thumbing through Bimmer Magazine this morning in Penn Station (I think I saw one of you guys reading D-Cup) and there was an article comparing the 325xiT & 330xiT (European Only). They said the reason BMW only brings the 2.5L here is to keep the cost down and that a loaded 330xiT would be in 525iT territory. MB sells a C320 Wagon that is quite expensive & in 525iT Territory. They said a 325xiT with a 5 speed moves and that the Steptronic equipped models don't fair so well (due to the extra weight of the AWD, Wagon, & Slushbox).

kabadsv

I plan to purchase a 325i in February. Any recommended dealers? Thanks in advance.

ccotenj

a "click" or a "clunk"? can you identify *where* in the back (i.e. which corner?)?

-Chris

hgeyer

I purchased a 330i from Midwestern BMW in Dublin/Columbus and thought they were great. Call Steve Topolosky at 614-889-2571, ext. 152 or Eric Robare at ext. 157.

kominsky

O.T., but things are a little slow around here today.

 Someone had an enemy...

http://www.m-rrebuildables.com/carpics/001991.htm

brave1heart

I'd wait till early March to make sure that you won't buy right before the mid-year model discount kicks in... Not a sure thing of course but they did it last year and according to autosite.com, BMW sales have slowed down in the past few months.

williamshim

hmmmm a little late on the single malt but I have a bottle of 25 year old Glenlivet..... quite strong with 56% so that makes 112 proof. I recently had 21 year old (98 proof?) and it was fantastic. I can't wait till I open this one. Where are we having that tasting party again? I hail from Philly.

jmochel1

I was thinking the only way I would be able to get into a BMW this year was to by a CPO 323 or 325 until the dealer showed me one that was pretty basic (auto, sunroof, and heated seats only options). This brought the sticker price down to $31k. So far the dealers are telling me they'll sell it for $500 off MSRP.

I'm now wondering which would be the better deal? I drive close to 20k miles a year. How much is a used '99 or '00 323 going for with low miles? The ones I've seen go for $26-30k but they tend to have PP and leather.

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

ccotenj

would go the cpo route and let someone else take the initial depreciation hit... this is what i did, i was driving 35k a year at the time... i bought a 4 year old car with 39k on the clock... that 39k was about one years worth of mileage for me, so it wasn't any big deal, and i was able to save a significant sum off of buying it new...

if you can get the car you want cpo, that would be the way to go... my opinion, anyway...

oh, and get a 5 speed...

-Chris

beatdog

just order one with those option, if you can wait.

I just order my 325 with only auto, moonroof,wood trim.

got 800 off MSRP and floor mat.

nyccarguy

I agree with Chris that due to the amount of miles you drive, It's be better to buy a CPO car and let someone else take the depreciation hit. You could definitely get a car with more features (possibly a 328) for around $30,000. It will still have the balance of the BMW 4/50K factory warranty as well as a 6 year/100,000 mile (powertrain) warranty from original date of service.

derprofi

I'll step up and offer a dissenting opinion here, provided you have the time and patience to do European Delivery. $26-27K or so will get you a stripper 5-speed 2002 325i like parsonguy was talking about a couple of days ago. With over $2k in savings on the table available via ED and better negotiation possibilities as well (due to the dealer allocation issue someone else explained already in a previous post), why bother hassling with CPO?

ccotenj

a reasonable argument, but i'm curious as to why you think cpo is a "hassle"?

you can get more car, and as both nyc and i pointed out, with the type of mileage he/she will be putting on it, the pre-existing mileage is almost a wash...

-Chris

errickson

I bought a new 2001.5 325I pretty much 'loaded' (imho)....for 30,380 + 1500 = 31,880!!!!!!!!!

It has: Auto., Leather, Xenon, CD (which is now free), Sunroof, Sport Package.

It ended up being around 34,000 drive-out.

hgeyer

My take on CPO is that you pay an unnecessary premium for this feature. I cannot speak from personal experience, but in reviewing the TMV between a private-party sale and a CPO using Edmunds used car data (2000 BMW 328i with premium), there is a $2,200 difference in price.

If I really wanted buy used, I would seek out a private sale.

ILLINOIS BONUS -
In Illinois, sales tax (8.75%) is limited to $1,500 on the purchase of a used car in a private transaction. If purchasing from a dealer, they are required to collect the full tax.

Do the math, this can be a huge savings.

ccotenj

i guess you must have missed the part where i pointed out that i'm speaking from personal experience...

-Chris

brave1heart

It's hard to say whether a used car, a CPO or a new car would come out cheaper.. The older the car, the lower the depreciation will be but that may be at the expense of higher maintenance costs. What's important to consider is not only the purchase price but also the exit price and the maintenance costs involved. A used car may seem like a great deal because it's already depreciated significantly but how much money will you have to spend for maintaining the car down the road and how much will you be able to get for a used used car? Is there a lot of demand for 7-8-yr old BMW's with 100K+ miles on them? How much is your time worth? Generally, the newer models are better deals than the older models: the 330 is a better deal than the 328 and the 325 is a better deal than the 323. The 2001.5 325 is a better deal than the 2001 325. A brand new E46 would be a better deal than a brand new E36 because it is loaded with a lot more options and there's a lot more competition in the segment now which has prevented BMWNA from raising the prices for new models significantly. That said, it would depend mostly on the individual deal and buyer circumstances.

hgeyer

I cannot speak from personal experience (and what I'd be interested in hearing feedback of) to the disparity in TMV that Edmunds assigns on a CPO vehicle versus a private sale. Your point on 1st year depreciation is, of course, correct.

Does such a price disparity exists, or are Edmund's TMV valuations off?

If I were considering paying over $2,000 for a car to be CPO, assuming the car is still in warranty, I'd save the $2,000 and look up (i) the classifieds; and (ii) the number to a good BMW mechanic.

nyccarguy

With a CPO car you get the CPO warranty. You are paying more for a CPO car then you would a private party. To me, that CPO warranty and the extra $$$ paid is worth it for the piece of mind. As it has been said many times on this board: BMWs are wonderful cars, but they're not perfect. Even if something does go wrong and it is out of warranty, it will be expensive to fix. Buying the car from a private seller is a gamble I wouldn't be willing to take.