BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

errickson

the CPO difference is with the extended warranty. That said, you can also buy a vehicle from a private owner, take it to your local BMW dealer, and they will "certify" it for you...for around $2000. Just another option I discovered while shopping around.

brave1heart

How much money will the 2 grand save you over what's remaining of the 6yr/100K warranty. CPO will make your monthly cash outflow more predictable, and that's a big plus. But none of us can answer whether it will be worth it in the end...

brave1heart

I've read that over a period of 18 years, about 1/3 of it evaporates (the non-alcohol part of it), leaving a higher alcohol content. That may explain why the 25-yr old Glenlivet is so high in alcohol content. I typically don't put ice in scotch but a drop of fresh water wakes up the spirit that's been locked in for all these years and opens up the flavor ;o)

p.s. Can someone please tell me what the difference between scotch and single malt is? I always thought that scotch is single malt by definition...

1pierce

Since my post from a few days ago generated some of this tire flame, I have to weigh-in again. I never said that HP summer tires on 17" wheels, with the SP suspension wasn't the ultimate in handling for the 3-series. Only an idiot would argue that. What I question is how much actual real experiencial value you get out of that setup, as opposed to the sport suspension with very good performing all-season tires.

Frankly, for you "maximum performance junkies" (I hope you take that as a compliment), I'd like to see the roads you drive on everyday? I sincerely apologize for my comments if you really do have an opportunity to test the g.-force cornering ability of your BMW on a daily, or even weekly basis. And if you drive your car in traffic, commuter (25-50mph)situations everyday, over potholes and average American roads, the stiffer SP (especially with the harder, louder summer tires) has to be less comfortable and enjoyable for the majority of drivers.

And what about the 4-5 months per year when you have your snow tires on? How much of the extra percentage of handling inherent in the SP are you enjoying then? Also, every time I see a BMW in winter with obviously inexpensive aftermarket rims and snow tires, I can't help but think it looks like $%#&@.

Last word from me: What I would do, if money were no limit: I'd get the SP, with the summer tires. I'd then get good all-seasons for winter - not snow tires - on BMW rims to match my factory set. Absent the money tree, I'll get a 325Ci with the sport suspension and all-seasons, and leave my factory rims right where they are for the life of the lease (with proper rotation, and timely replacement, of course). Let the HOWLING begin!!!

drcr

Got it back after having the windsheild replaced. I can't believe how much I would miss the 5 speed.

In response to a previous inquiry, the total cost was $702 to have it replaced.

Oh I had 5 miles on my car when I picked it up.

brave1heart

You won't hear any howling from me, as your arguments are very good. I agree especially with the "$%#&@" part and if I ever put in snow tires, they will have to go on alloy rims, preferably identical to the ones that I currently have. I do, however, test the g.-force cornering ability of my BMW on a daily basis. Even in traffic:
1. I like sitting lower because of the lowered suspension
2. I like the bucket seats
3. I like to feel every little motion of the stiffer suspension.
4. I like to know that when an opening in the traffic comes up, I can confidently point my car there.

We took my 3-week old son out in the car 8 times (3 times in the BMW, 5 in the Audi) in the first 17 days and he never complained vocally in the back seat of either car over any road or potholes. If the SP is comfortable enough for him, then it must be comfortable enough for most grown-ups ;o)

hgeyer

I cannot speak from personal experience (and what I'd be interested in hearing feedback of) to the disparity in TMV that Edmunds assigns on a CPO vehicle versus a private sale. Your point on 1st year depreciation is, of course, correct.

Does such a price disparity exists, or are Edmund's TMV valuations off?

If I were considering paying over $2,000 for a car to be CPO, assuming the car is still in warranty, I'd save the $2,000 and look up (i) the classifieds; and (ii) the number to a good BMW mechanic.

dave330i

I've got a friend who went from Bridgestone S02 to Kumho (both Z-rated performance tires). He says he lost ~10 mph through corners now (everyday driving).

tenet1

Brave-You are right

Here is all you need to know about this wonderful drink and more.

http://www.scotch-whisky.org.uk/qa-lead.htm

Please drive responsibly

brave1heart

I like the definition: "Scotch Whisky is a distillate made in Scotland from the elements of cereals, water and yeast, all of which nature will in due course replace." I especially like the cereal part - does that qualify it as a breakfast too )

williamshim

"There are two main types of this liquor available; blended Scotches, which are a combination of 50 to 80 percent grain (unmalted) whisky and 20 to 50 percent MALT whisky; and single-malt Scotches, which are made exclusively from malt, produced by a single distillery and have a richer smoky flavor."

Quote from the epicurious food dictionary.

tenet1

I used to add ice and water too, but I learned that in Scotland they simply add room temperture water. I do that now and it really brings out the flavor of the Scotch.

Ever try Old Pultney Single Highland Malt Whiskey? Probably one of the smoothest, yet most flavorful around. It is hard to find in the US (anyone know where I can buy this one???). I usually pick up some when flying through Heathrow.

Damn I need to get in the Bimmer and get home for a drink!!!

williamshim

I though it was the becteria that made the alcohol content higher in older drinks.... If, I remember correctly, beteria present in the oak filled with the stuff eats the sweets and the by product is the alcohol....more time doing this = more alcohol....?

Of course, it's not always true since I think the Johhny Walker Blue (I think it's 21 years old) is still 40%...? I guess JW somehow gets in down to 40 %...

mschukar

I can't necessarily say I test the cornering limits everyday, but I do have a couple corners on my way to and from work that I could take quite fast in my Miata. Adding summer tires to the Miata made a noticeable difference. I look forward to taking my 325i with SP through these corners.

Regarding snows and rims, I will be getting those cheap steel rims with plastic hubcaps. When it snows, I'm more concerned about safety than looks. This year, I would have kept the summer tires on until January here in Wisconsin!

-Murray

mschukar

One big advantage of buying used or CPO is you can check the service history with the VIN to make sure the car wasn't in the shop repeatedly. It's hard to dump a lemon if you buy new. I have a friend who happily buys (several) used Mercedes for this very reason (plus the cost savings, of course).

-Murray

shipo

Here is a good link that covers some of the differences between Single Malt and Blended Scotch (as well as aspersions cast against other spirits as well):

http://www.smwsa.com/whisky.html

Best Regards,
Shipo

orkwis

FWIW: I did an email survey of most Ohio dealers before ordering my ED 325i and found that Cleveland BMW was one of 2 to accept my $1500 over invoice price. I don't know about in stock but I would certainly give them a try. There's also a dealer in Toledo, Yark (I think) that accepted. They are the only 2 in Ohio listed as Centers of Excellence. Down Cincinnati way the BMW Store offered me the best overall deal and they tend to have a lot of cars in stock, you can check on line. I bought from them. Most of the other dealers said they don't discount. Good luck and please report back.

I'm not sure about bacteria causing the sugar to turn to alcohol, it is my impression that it is a purely chemical reaction, either that or it is the yeast that causes it as their waste product. Maybe yeast is a bacteria and I'm all wet on this. I am pretty sure though that alcohol content is governed by the amount of sugar in the initial mix modified by the aging time, although it can be changed by fortifying the product afterward. Of course, the more Scotch you drink the less important those facts become!

Braveheart: Used to be you could go to Canada and buy gas by the Imperial Gallon, again a little smaller than the U.S. equivalent. Units are the ultimate engineering student humbling device.

dhanley

Yes, i saw about a $2,000 difference around town between personal cars for sale and CPO cars.

Is that a good deal? Well, they had the car i wanted, and it wasn't for sale in the paper. But even if i had:

1) The warranty gives me peace of mind. Even if i don't spend $2,000 in repairs, maybe if i had bought a personal car, i'd have had more than that in repairs. Maybe the person would have hid a real problem. Yes, you can have the car checked out but that costs money. What if you have 2 or 3 checked out? Also, i can get things fixed that i may have otherwise let slide. At 6 years 100K miles, my car will be perfect.

2) I like getting service loaners from the dealer.

3) The dealer did a lot of things that made the transaction easy, and i got a good finance rate, better than i would have gotten from an individual.

4) The roadside assistance is very good. I frequently drive in "the sticks" and if my car breaks down, i like that it will get towed to the nearest dealer and i can get a rental or a service loaner ( home dealer ).

So, yeah, maybe i could have gotten a personal car and saved some money, but i'd be more nervous too! 3 years of peace of mind is worth something to me.

dave

postoak

I'm not a Scotch drinker but reading the link supplied by Shipo, let's see if I've got this straight.

A malted scotch whiskey is one made from malted barley (only).

If memory serves, a malted grain, of any kind, is one in which the grain is allowed to partially germinate -- right?

So, you could, properly, speak of malted wheat, malted milo, etc. But, by convention, with regard to Scotch whiskey, "malted" implies malted barley.

Grain Scotch whiskey refers to Scotch made from a blend of malted (and therefore, by implication, barley) Scotch, and other (presumably non-malted) grains.

Is all that correct?

Disclaimer - this post was made by someone under the influence of George Dickel Tennessee Sippin' whiskey and so may not be entirely coherent.

rdl40

I passed on the '01 330i, instead I placed an order today for a '02 330i.
I paid $1100 over invoice and the only options ordered were leather and sport pkg. with 18" rims.

I was hesitant on the purchase of the '01 because it had racked up 250 miles on the odometer. I know that the break in period is crucial and played it safe by ordering the '02.

My car should be here in 6-8 weeks, it's steel blue with grey interior.
I look forward to becoming a first time BMW owner at the age of 41.

thanks, ron

postoak

Excellent! On to two counts. Steel Blue over gray is my current favorite. And $1100 over invoice is an EXCELLENT deal. Congrats!

bing330i

Hello gang: Just came back from ED. I am going to pass the car impression report as everyone here should have had their first hand of exciting driving experience and already be a true lover of E46! I'd like to mention few points should you be interested in ED:

* First and foremost, the factory tour is a must go! (Make reservation in advance at 1-866-868-7269). The Munich factory next to the BMW museum that the tour was held builds 3er sedans and compacts. It is amazing how pieces are engineered together into a wonderful driving machine! Automation is everywhere, though manual work is quite common. I must admit that I was surprised to see the majority of the workers were in their early 20s, though apparently their leads were in their 40s/50s. The old to young ration was like 1 to 10. About 75% of workers are German, 20% are Turkish, and the rest are of 50+ ethnicity and South African trainees. Also worthy mentioning is you should not get nervous if you go over 3000 RPM during break-in period. During the last QA check of a car, the tester kept the RPM at constant 3k, 4k, and 5k, for about 10 seconds each and surely you could smell burning there. We were told that they generally ran up to 130 km/h for 3ers and 180 for M3.

* Bimmer in Munich: Surprisingly I did not see as many Bimmers in its motherland as I thought I would. The number is probably comparable with here in Orange County. Most of them are in silver and black. Oddly enough, I did not see a single steel gray and steel blue which become quite popular here. Oh BTW, most cars have no badges and have plain wheels for winter.

* Munich itself does not offer as much as other big European cities like London and Paris. However, if you are into NY Central Park type, it has the Englisher Garden (do not get lost!). If you like science and museums, try Deutsche Museum. If you or your significant others are into shopping, it has quite a selection. Lastly, the #1 important thing in Munich is the BEER! Try the Lowenbrau beer garden in the northwest section of town or the Paulaner beer garden in the southeast. Sunday it's a dead town. All shops close on Sundays. So plan your Sunday there on sightseeing. But Muncheners are alive every night! Drinking is everywhere until 1 AM.

* Traveler checks: I got AMEX Euro traveler checks before my trip and thought I would be all set. All but one vendor took it and I ended up cashing them out the first thing Monday morning at AMEX downtown office.

* Munich Underground (metro) is a quick and reliable transportation. I did not use taxi at all and it served me well through my journey. The underground basically runs all the times except from 200 AM to 400 AM. I did not know a single German word and I got around without a problem by looking at a map got from the hotel. But then again, I am used to big metro systems in Beijing, Tokyo, London, Paris, etc.

* I got both air and hotel free so I can not comment much on travel deals. But I will not recommend the Holiday Inn Munich North which I stayed unless you get it cheap. I choose there mainly because of its location and cost nothing to me (save my Sheraton/Hilton points for romantic trips :->). It is in between downtown and the BMW ED center (10 minutes drive to both and the large BMW dealership Niederlassung). Good blankets but a typical plain Holiday Inn.

* German drivers: very disciplined. No turn on red (the law there); No pathetic slow drivers on the left lanes; No drivers used cell phones.

* Germans are not as cold as you'd think. Everyone I met was genuine and warm-hearted. A German guy sitting next to me on my flight to Munich offered me a lift from the airport to my hotel.

* Nothing special at both ED pick up center and Harms drop off office. Take your front licence plate, safety triangle, first aid kit if you want, flash light, and leatherette cover manual (not leather! I set my expectation high by reading others ED report :-<)

Sorry about this boring report. My brain is still adjusting the time difference and I wanted to throw in what's on mind. If you are interested in any specific topic, feel free to ask.

Best Regards.

bing330i

"I look forward to becoming a first time BMW owner at the age of 41."

What - 41 yr old! You are too old for the club! Just kidding. We are all young in heart!

bing330i

whisky - Scotish made
whiskey - American or other counties made

derprofi

I guess the "hassle" I'm imagining is the time spent hunting for a CPO that matches what you want option-wise, hoping that it was decently cared for, etc. Considering how well Bimmers seem to hold their value for the first couple of years and the fact that you apparently pay a $2k premium for CPO warranty, ED still seems like as good a deal. As someone else already mentioned, the cars are optioned better to begin with these days, you're saving at least $2,500 what you'd pay to buy one off the lot in the US, and best of all they're brand spankin' new. I haven't ever read the CPO warranty terms so I can't speak from experience, of course.

OK, to be fair I just read the CPO warranty terms on the BMWUSA site and it actually sounds quite good. Still, if I had to choose between a CPO '99 328i and a new ED '02 325i in approximately the same price range, I'd most likely go for the '02 unless the '99 was an extremely low-mileage creampuff.

Maybe part of my preference is due to the fact that I've done ED and know what an absolute blast it is...

orkwis

Bing: You forgot to mention the Hofbrauhaus!

Also, the Englisher Gardens are a must see in the summer if you enjoy a bit of voyeurism. Europeans seem to have no inhibitions when it comes to clothes. There is also a great biergarten in the center of the park.

Regarding CPO, a $2k premium is not a bad deal for a long warranty. I specked a Warrantybynet price for 6yr/100k miles for a car with less than 50k miles and the cost is about $1500. Factor in a factory warranty and dealer loaners and it has merit. Only real difference is that the warrantybynet is 6 yrs from warranty purchase, which you can do at 49,999 miles as long as you are still under the factory warranty. However, you will never know how hard the car was driven before you bought it, and it seems from these posts that people are more apt to drive a BMW hard than most any other car. I for one would rather go ED new and buy that warranty at 49k miles.

abcnyc

It seems like most everyone proposes putting winter tires on a new set of rims (steel or matching alloys). What about just replacing the performance tires for winter ? I know there is the recurring cost for installation, balance, etc., but a new set of rims are not cheap either. Is it better to have a complete set (tires and rims) ready to go for winter or just keep swapping tires ?

topspin627

The noise has been more of a "thunk" and seems to be coming from the left rear of the car. I was actually able to duplicate it, I think, by pushing back on the upright portion of the rear seat. I have the cold weather package and maybe because the seats fold down that's the reason. I also jiggled the head rest a bit and now I haven't heard the noise again since. Hopefully it's gone. What do you think?
I'm also hearing a kind of high pitched buzzing noise when the car is running from under the car in the rear. You can't hear it from inside but I noticed it when I got out and the car was running. I wasn't sure if it was always there or if it's "new". Could it be from the climate control? It's certainly not affecting performance which continues to be great.

On the tire topic, I got the special rims from tire rack along with my blizzack LM's and I think they look fine. I also have not lost a night's sleep worrying whether or not it was going to snow so even though it's been very mild to date, it's been a small price to pay for piece of mind.

325i87

There are two types of HP units, neither of them metric, but they are well within 1% and would not explain the variation between 184 and 192 HP.

The two units are very close to one another (745.2* watt vs 746 watt). The asterisk is there because the older mechanically defined unit is actually latitude dependent in its definition (depends of g, the gravity acceleration constant, 745.2 was the original definition somewhere near Paris. I believe in Grenwich England, it is 745.7).

The newer HP is electrically defined as 746 watt. It would be slightly greater than the mechanical unit most places (but not at very high latitudes where g is greater).

Is the 184/192 difference possibly due to differences in the DIN and SAE methods of rating or detuning of the NA models?

By the way, the Imperial gallon (hardly used now for fuel) is 20% greater than the US gallon (1.2009 US gallons). The US ounce is 5.6% greater than the Imperial ounce, but the Imperial gallon has 160 oz instead of 128 (quart has 40 instead of 32).

So watch out. Your 325i may have a lower HP rating when measured at the North pole.

orkwis

Beg to differ (slightly) there are at least 5 horsepower units, one of them being a metric hp. Although I have to admit that I don't know if that's the one used in Europe. Two nice resources are the URLs:

http://www.processassociates.com/process/convert/cf_all.htm

http://home.clara.net/brianp/index.html

Admittedly, hydraulic, electric and the standard 550ft-lbf/s are within an eyelash of each other. But boiler hp is very different, whereas the metric hp is about 1.4% less. I have to admit though that 325i87 is correct that this doesn't completely explain the difference, it can only really account for about 2.5hp. A possible explanation of the difference is that the engine is rated together with it's emission system, implying US emissions take more from the engine.

I agree with the possibility that gravity enters the hp unit. The standard hp is 550 ft-lbf/s. Where a lbf is the force developed by 1 lbm due to gravitational acceleration. I'm just surprised that the difference is in the third digit. I'm looking for a resource that would list the variation. If I understand it correctly it would have to do with the eccentricity of the Earth.

BTW: I was clearly wrong on the imperial gallon, it's bigger not smaller. I stand corrected!

ccotenj

ok...

mine rides on 17" ifg a5's in the summer... currently with pp s02's... (i digressed for a billion posts earlier about the difference between these and the rim protector contis, dave330 is right, there's a big difference, even with performance tires)...
right now it has 15" bmw basketweaves on it with blizzak mz-02's...
i'll take the winter trade-off... especially around here, where our roads are essentially snow packed into ice for days after any significant snowstorm...
as far as "comfort"...
well...
mine has a dinan stage 1 suspension (bilstein option) on it...
i don't cry out in pain when i'm driving it...

abcync - the reason you want a separate set of wheels is because you want a taller and skinnier tire in the winter. although the actual size of the contact patch is the same, the "longer and skinnier" patch of the tall/skinny tire is mucho better in snow/ice than the wider one...

-Chris

ccotenj

entirely possible... i know on my e36, i was getting a strange "clunk" every now and then, and it's because one of the clips that holds the rear seat in place had come loose (it took me FOREVER to figure that out )... if it's coming from "inside" the car, i wouldn't sweat it too much... if it comes back from the "outside", have them check your rear shock mounts...

buzzing... hmmm... you can only hear it from the outside? does it vary at all? or is it the same volume/tone all the time?

-Chris

ccotenj

cpo v. private party v. new to come... i hate it when i actually have to get some work done...

-Chris

nyccarguy

telling about all these wonderful ED experiences. I may have to force myslef to do it when the time comes in the fall!

dave330i

Read about the adjustable Bilstein they have out now? You can adjust ride height and stiffness.

huntzinger

... What I question is how much actual real experiencial value you get out of that setup, as opposed to the sport suspension with very good performing all-season tires.

Personally, I find that I can feel the difference between various tire combinations, even in routine driving. You don't need to be "at the limits": there will often be differences in the general crispness of the steering, how well the car tracks, etc. It contributes to the overall feeling of stability, control and confidence.

FWIW, I've sometimes been able to even discern the difference between different brands of the same type of tire, although its the exception and not the rule (example: temperature sensitivity). I imagine (or would at least hope!) that most of us can discern the difference after we've added ~5psi or more of air to our tires.

... for you "maximum performance junkies" (I hope you take that as a compliment), I'd like to see the roads you drive on everyday?

There's good & bad sections here in NJ, although one of the nastier sections I had to drive with some relative frequency (I-95 north of Philadelphia) has just been re-paved, which has made a huge difference in regards to NVH.

Fortunately, most of my commute is counter-flow, so the amount of slow, bumper-to-bumper stuff I have is very minimal: perhaps 5-10%. This lack of stop-n-go traffic also fortunately facilitates the selection of a stick, versus an automatic transmission.

I sincerely apologize for my comments if you really do have an opportunity to test the g.-force cornering ability of your BMW on a daily, or even weekly basis.

On any commute, there's a few choice places where one can misbehave, if someone is so inclined to look for them ;-).

For example, one of the ones on my daily drive is a nice T intersection on the connecting roads out of the parking lots that is quite desolate if you leave work late, and it seems that someone sometimes uses that location to (ahem) practice hanging their back end waaaaay out :-)

And if you drive your car in traffic, commuter (25-50mph)situations everyday, over potholes and average American roads, the stiffer SP (especially with the harder, louder summer tires) has to be less comfortable and enjoyable for the majority of drivers.

No contest. But if we wanted to be as isolated from the road as possible, we'd probably be driving some land yacht Caddy, Olds, or MB, right? Enthusiast driving is by definition a trade-off.

And what about the 4-5 months per year when you have your snow tires on? How much of the extra percentage of handling inherent in the SP are you enjoying then?

IMO, this is the wrong question. I consider the right question to be to ask what improvement in winter handling are you getting from the snows in adverse driving conditions over what the All-seasons would have afforded.

Last word from me: What I would do, if money were no limit: I'd get the SP, with the summer tires. I'd then get good all-seasons for winter - not snow tires - on BMW rims to match my factory set.

YMMV. On a $30-35K car, we're really not talking about it needing to be that much of an investment (unless you insist on OEM rims).

For a Snows-vs-AS tire choice, it really depends on where you live and your personal opinion as to what your priorities are. For example, my personal philosophy is that even though its only "bad" perhaps 10% of the time through our winter season, I'd rather lose a little bit of good winter conditions performance if it will significantly boost the performance under the worst likely conditions. Such is the nature of trade-offs.

-------------------

It seems like most everyone proposes putting winter tires on a new set of rims (steel or matching alloys). What about just replacing the performance tires for winter ? I know there is the recurring cost for installation, balance, etc., but a new set of rims are not cheap either. Is it better to have a complete set (tires and rims) ready to go for winter or just keep swapping tires ?

I think it comes down to the personal answers to two questions:

1) Time management: Would you prefer to quickly swap the wheels/rims yourself when you have the time, versus getting an appointment?

(Note that this question also infers a willingness to work on your car).

2) Cost benefit analysis: The second set of rims will eventually pay for themselves through the cost avoidance of installation and balance. How quickly do you want them to pay for themselves?

(Note that cheap [steel] non-OEM rims have a significantly faster payback, typically only ~2 years. The math is straightforward enough)

FWIW, it is common for the tire shops to be mobbed by procrastinators at the time of the season's first snowfall, so you need to be honest with yourself, to determine if you're going to be one of them or not.

At least if you have your own rims, you can still procrastinate, but you can do it in the secrecy of your own garage (at ~9pm at night! :-)

-hh

ccotenj

a little, but not in detail...

i went with the bilstein's v. the koni's because i knew i wasn't going to be adjusting them anyway...

yea! what hh said!!

-Chris

dave330i

latest issue of Roundel has a nice write up about it. It sounded pretty simple to adjust.

dl7265

Seen several private party 323i for between 20-22k, id say that a bargain. Dont forget maintence is included, for the first 3 years so most are doing it, just check with the dealer that serviced the car.

Happy Hunting ,
Dl

dl7265

On another note thats pretty lousy depeciation, considering those car were 33k-34ish new,

When i was trading a lux japanese vehicle for my 3er i got all the excuses how its a mass produced japanese vehicle bla bla bla. i wonder what the excuse will be now ? they changed the headlights on the new car ?

In Texas they tax you on the trade difference so it also most forces you to trade instead of private party due to the sales taxes of 6.5 %

DL

brave1heart

bing330i - I enjoyed your ED experience post very much - it was very informative and straight to the point. Congrats on your new baby!!

rdl40 - maybe it's time for you to change your user id to rdl41 then ) Congratulations to you as well!! Contrary to popular belief, the average age of a 3-series owner is about 41 years of age, so you should be feeling right at home!!

nobee

German drivers: very disciplined. No turn on red (the law there); No pathetic slow drivers on the left lanes; No drivers used cell phones.

You need to stay in Europe a lot longer than a few days to accurately measure the discipline of German drivers. Turns on red happens frequently, and even with the implementation of of the "no cell phones while driving" it's an everyday occurence you'll see on the roads. However, you're right about not seeing slow drivers on the left hand side--speed rules!

I finally got my bmw repaired. Schaal of Bitburg did a great job but I had to take it in twice, but both times they gave me a loaner. A 5-series, and a 2.2 Z3. I also decided to get the theft alarm installed. Total w/ labor came to 240.00 Euros.
-nobee

brave1heart

Patriots fans - good luck on Sunday!!

Rams fans - get ready for a big surprise!! Fairy tales do happen after all, I know...It will make the Pats' win so much sweeter!!

kominsky

Huntzinger; excellent post!

Chris; "... because you want a taller and skinnier tire in the winter. although the actual size of the contact patch is the same, the "longer and skinnier" patch of the tall/skinny tire is mucho better in snow/ice than the wider one..."

I'm not sure I'm following this... I don't THINK the contact area would be the same. I thought one big advantage of skinnier tires in snow was the higher PSI due to the smaller contact area.

ccotenj

nope, i'm sure on this one (assuming you don't change your inflation pressures)... all things being equal, your actual contact patch area will be the same, it will just be in a different shape...

think about it a sec... you've still got the same amount of force "pushing down" on each corner... since the skinny tire isn't as "wide", it must deflect more in the "front to back" direction....

-Chris

carwatch

I visited a NJ dealer over the weekend (very accommodating) to look at a 2002 325Ci topaz blue/black leather, Steptronic (I know but...), PP, SP, heated seats, xenon with MSRP of $37,445 and willing to give it for $36,420. That's $1025 under MSRP.

While there, I noticed a few "executive car" units in the showroom. A couple of 2001 530i and a 2001 330Ci. I got info on the 2001 330Ci: Steel gray, blk leather, steptronic, PP, heated seats, in-dash CD with 5980 miles for a list price of $40,910. They were willing to give it for $37,345. That's $3,565 under list price.

I have been reading this board for six months now and there are a lot of contributors that have the knowledge and experience to give valuable advice. What do you think is better? The brand new 2002 325Ci or the used 2001 330Ci? I'd appreciate any advice.

BTW, this is the first time I've decided to get a bimmer. It's about time. I've had a few Benzes, currently a 2000 ML320 for snow days, long trips and hauling stuff, a 2001 Maxima SE for my daily trip to NYC, and a 2000 Sentra SE that the kids use.

dave330i

With a step, you might find 325 underpowered (BTW, with all the other cars you own, you really should test drive a stick).

Best advice is to test drive both and see which one you like better.

kominsky

I guess I'll have to think about this more, but it still doesn't seem right. If the force pushing down on each corner is what determines the contact patch, my wife's odyssey (4500lbs on 205mm tires) would have almost 50% larger contact area (assuming the same tire pressure). Again, I'm not trying to contradict you, just trying to figure it out. I guess there will be no gold stars for me today, huh? :-)

nyccarguy

The power of the 330Ci will be more to your liking with a slushbox especially coming from a Maxima.

You sure we can't convince you to get a 5-speed:)? $1025 off MSRP doesn't seem like such a hot deal for the 325Ci. Try offering them invoice + $1500. That should land you at around the $35,400 (& change mark).

Before I go on, I have a few questions for you:

Is the 330Ci Executive car a CPO car?
How long do you plan on keeping the car?
How many miles do you drive each year?

brave1heart

carwatch - neither of the two sound like a good deal. You are not getting enough discount on the 325 and the 330 is too expensive for a used car.

kominsky - do you know of any high performance bicycle tires that I could fit on my 325 then? Same contact patch and they should protect the rims just as well as the Contis ) In all honesty, based on past discussions, I had concluded that the only way to increase your contact patch is to go with wider tires. Conversely, if you go with narrower tires, your contact patch decreases. Probably a good thing in snow so you can bite into it better.