BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

rhmass

I finally ordered the 02 325ixT after driving the wagon back to back with the A4 Avant 3.0 a few times. While A4 clearly has a more powerful engine, the BMW has the road manner much to my liking. The BMW costs more with the same options included (some are standard for A4). It won't matter if I keep the sport wagon for a few years. Since we have been driving BMWs for many years, the familiarity of the interior and controls is very nice also. The power is adequate for me. I just wish they had the 3.0 engine option. I was told it would take at least eight weeks for it to arrive. Thanks for your previous input that had helped me with the decision.
The A4's reliability seems to remain as an issue. The Consumer Reports tested several "upscale" sedans and the result in the March issue was not very positive concerning A4. In fact the testers were stranded a couple times because they couldn't start the car. I am also surprised that they were not impressed with the Audi's new engine. For this group they rated the Lexus E300 on the top. BMW was not included in this testing, although the 330i was listed to be the top in this category overall with the A4 in the fifth place.

riez

mainsail2... Thinking GM builds the hardware but BMW builds their own software/TCM. GM uses different software/TCM, their own. So they are alike but still can perform significantly differently.

dave330i

Another reason to get a manual. Actually, I haven't seen anyone on this board complain about the auto.

mg330ci

Any experiences?

How much does it cost?

Would you recommend it?

john01

The GM built ones are actually built in France from what I gather. Most of the transmission problems I have heard of on BMWs are with autos, not manuals. Provided, I have only heard a few cases, but there are some who think that they tend to have problems in 80,000 to 120,000 mile range. Again, some do not seem to have any problem, but a few that do usually end up with replacements. $$$$

derprofi

Out of all that the PP offers, the only two things that would give potential buyers pause would probably be lack of leather and sunroof. All other geegaws probably wouldn't be missed by anyone. It seems like it wouldn't be too hard to convince a buyer of the advantages of Leatherette, but it might be harder to talk them out of a sunroof. Personally, I came from a convertible into my 330i so I went ahead and got the sunroof only (mine was SP, CWP, Xenons, sunroof). In retrospect I'm still glad I left out the rest of the PP, and I'm loving the sunroof more and more as time passes.

If you believe the party line from most dealers then it's possible that lack of a sunroof might hinder resale. Back when I was initially shopping for a barebones 325i, VOB in Maryland wanted an extra deposit just to custom order me one with SP only, basically saying that "we'll have to sell it at cost if you back out and we have to put it on the lot without a sunroof." That's probably a bit of an exaggeration, but since they sell Bimmers for a living I'm sure there's a small grain of truth in there too, especially since they would have sold me the sunroof at invoice price and not made any $ on it as an option.

brave1heart

The 330xiT is coming to the U.S. in 8 weeks? That's great news for BMW fans - it was 'bout time.

kominsky

No experience, but I would highly recommend it from what I've heard/read. Unfortunately, when I learned about it, my car was already too close to delivery to be able to take advantage of it. I'm 98% sure there is no cost other than your travel to and from S.C. Good luck!

dl7265

Ive only seen 1 non moon roof E46 a 328i with no options. The deal is a moonroof used to be standard equipment, but after all the asc/ dsc and so forth were added at no extra charge the moonroof was added back in as a option.

DL

derprofi

when do we get the 540i all-wheel-drive wagon? :-)

Interesting comment on the moonroof, dl7265. I never knew it used to be standard.

cecilt

I currently own a 2000 BMW 323i with navigation, sport/premium package and xenon lights. Most options except the true leather and split rear seat. My question involves resale value. I have 53k on the odometer and do about 25k/year. I'm trying to decide when it is best to sell or to just keep it until 150-175k miles and basically have a vehicle not worth much. I would think $3-4k but I'm guessing with this many miles and hopefully not a lot of repair bills. 1st Bimmer but not last as I would want to get another one. Also, what vehicles have the best resale value.

I do not get reimbursed mileage but my company will buy a new/used car and they pay cash for it. I get the advantage of an interest free loan for 2-3 years depending on how much the vehicle costs. Over $30k(2 years) and under $30k(3years). They also take it out pre-tax so there is that savings as well. The payment is taken out of my end of year bonus/commissions and not monthly. My gas, insurance maintenance and repairs is taken out of my year end bonus/commission pre-tax as well.

With my current vehicle having 52k on it I initially thought of driving it till 175k and getting a new/hardly used one in 5 more years from now. If I keep it 2 more years it will have 90-100k on it. Will it be worth anything or just very hard to sell on my own. I know I could trade it in but you loose so much.

What makes the most financial sense. Keep selling every 2-4 years or keep them for a long time. When I do go to buy again I will buy say a year old model with less than 15k on the odometer so that the previous owner took the $3-4k initial depreciation hit. Thanks

cecilt

I currently own the 2000 323i so when I do sell it the cash is mine. Thanks for helping on this dilemma.

raavir

chaotic1

After testing the Audi and the BMW, and doing extensive reading, I pretty much have my heart set on a BMW 330. I live in Northeast Ohio, and as such, it snows occasionally. I've driven the non-AWD Bimmer in very snowy conditions without difficulty (although it did slide a little when I drove it a bit too aggressively, but the traction control did the trick). Do you think the trade off in performance by the 330xi is worth the added control on the several days of bad weather, or would the 330i be the better choice? Although I don't know how to drive a slushbox now, I have a friend who will teach me.

orkwis

hgeyer: The convention I attended in Munich was at the MOC convention center, not at the Olympic Park. I looked back at my S-bahn map and the MOC is off the Kieferngarten stop, one stop past the Friemann station on the U6 line. It's really between the Friemann and Keiferngarten stations and I know that I wandered around some after the conference one day and passed by a big factory that I now assume was the BMW delivery center. If it's off the U6 line at Friemann then it's the same place. Nice neighborhood to walk through.

Anyone traveling to Munich might want to consider where I stayed, the City Hilton. It's 2 stations from Marienplatz on the U-bahn and has it's own entrance to the underground via the Rosenheimer Platz station. The train from the airport takes you right to the lobby. From there it is a short ride to Marienplatz and the U6 line to Friemann and BMW. The Hilton is a little on the pricey side but Bavarian friendly and German efficient. Perhaps more importantly, it has an indoor garage at which you can self park.

The Munich underground is indeed safe (by my estimates). It's one of the few places you will see little elementary school girls taking the train to school in the morning; by themselves. Having grown up in NYC and taking the E/F and No. 7 trains to my high school, it was something of a surprise to me. Anybody interested in a color map of the underground system can find it at:

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/mvv_plaene/images/sbahn/sbahn.html

jack807

Hello guys,

It seems like a number of you have had good experiences with ED. I am exploring the idea of doing ED myself. I just need some clarification. When people say I paid $1,500 over ED invoice price, I'm assuming paying $1,500 over the base price for ED. And then how about the options? Does this mean you add all the options at invoice price or sticker price?

Thank you very much for your input. I've tried using this board's search function or searching back at old posts that talked about ED before but the search function seem to have a mind of its own.

orkwis

The best suggestion I got from the board was to go to eurobuyers.com website. There you will find the ED dealer invoice pricing. The $1500 over is with respect to dealer invoice not the ED MSRP. Hope that helps and good luck.

jklein

I am dealing with the same dilemma. I live in NW connecticut, we get our fair share of the white stuff with lots of hills to boot. I presently own an Audi A4 2.8, with four snows it is really unstoppable. It comes off lease in the summer, and I've driven a 330i which really blew me away, I don't like the new A4 styling, but I do feel the A4 has a much better AWD system than the xi. I have a couple of friends with RWD BMWs who think they're just fine in the snow, but the reputation isn't great. At this point, if I determine that the 330i isn't safe in snow, I'll probably just buy my A4 off lease. I should also state that my job requires me to be "on call", and I have to respond to emergencies at any time day or night. Any advice out there?

rhmass

I have owned the 3 series for a number of years and have had no problems in the winter with four good snow tires put on. I had never been stuck in the snow all these years and I live in the northeast.
Recently I ordered a 325ixT after driving both the RWD and AWD models (and the new Audi A4 Avant 3.0). I really didn't feel the AWD had reduced the performance between the two models. Since I am talking about the smaller engine here, I would think in the 330 models, the AWD should handle as well as the RWD model with some additional safety factors in some situations. However, if you don't think the AWD is needed, you should do fine with the RWD, with four good snow tires in the winter. It should be much less costly for the winter over the AWD with less future potential mechanical complexity to contend with. Personally I just think the $1750 charged for the AWD option is excellent price and will increase the resale value in the future.

hgeyer

Two other interesting things that I noticed about German public transit is (i) people bring their dogs (not seeing-eye dogs) on the train; and (ii) there are no turnstiles or conductors to collect fares - everything is on the honor system (maybe that's why such a system would never work in Chicago).

I was incorrect about the location of the MOC convention center. Yesterday, I happened to have my Munich map on my desk at work, but it didn't go any further north than Freimann.

hgeyer

A person in know was told that after 1/1/02, ED sales would come out of a dealer's allocation.

Has anyone else heard this or does this sound like BS?

allano

I've had the pleasure of driving my 325xiT in snow this winter and although the Audi AWD system may be technically more sophisticated, I doubt you will notice the difference in practical use. The fact that you have four driven wheels all the time for up-hill traction is the real key.

  I've tried a couple of times to break my wheels loose going up the hill outside my house and in the parking lot at work and was not able to so. I tried to slide around a corner at work while accelerating and it just went around the corner faster and faster. The only time I was able to get the back to begin to slide was while in an accelerating turn at the top of our street's hill. I felt the back begin to slide and then DSC kicked in and stopped the acceleration. The car continued the turn without a slide. And if you begin to push while in a turn (while going downhill), slight pressure on the accelerator has always gotten me around the turn.

  If you like the BMW better than the Audi, I believe BMW's AWD system will get you where you need to go. And when you don't have snow, the 330xi will feel like a RWD. Check out (click on) "The iX Factor" at http://www.bmwnation.com/home.html for more details of BMW's AWD system.

derprofi

That would be sad news indeed. If dealers start charging ED list then it reduces the $ advantage that makes most people choose ED in the first place.

Let's see, ED Retail on a 330i is $31,610. US Wholesale is $31,090 and assuming that one could still haggle Invoice + $1500 on a US Delivery car that gives an apples-to-apples price of $32,590 (excluding options, destination, etc.) That's a measly $980 savings by doing ED, which is probably enough to pay for plane fare and a couple nights hotel for 1 person doing a quick in-out trip. BAH! ED is a great experience but once it starts costing me EXTRA to stay in Europe for a week or two and bring a companion, forget about it...

mfeldman

On a lark I called a MB dealer who had a cancellation for a silver one due in next month. I like my 330, but in a sense it never fully lived up to my expectations. Even after the rerofit and alignment the steering doesn't feel perfectly balanced. Little rattles etc. THe c32 seems like a monster - the m3 with 4 doors. I'm done with 5 speeds so the lack of a manual is not an issue. It's hard to rationalize taking the financial bath though. ANyone driven a c32? Thoughts?

hfb

Just wanted to get in on the conversation. I am presently considering either A4 3.0Q or the 330xi. I have tested the A4 but have not had chance to do the same for the 330xi (can't find any around the Philadelphia area). I do like Audis (I have a 2001 allroad) but am not completely satisfied with the new A4 stylying. One issue/question I have regarding the 330xi is that you can only get one tire option (205/something/17). Why doesn't BMW offer additional tire size choices in all season versions? I also would welcome other general comments comparing the A4 to the 330xi.

dave330i

I thought 330i SP was the only one with different tire option.

derprofi

Yes, the performance on the c32 is supposed to be fantastic but like you say, are you ready to pay the $51K+ pricetag to get an extra second 0-60? That's a tough call. I'm assuming the cancellation probably just means that you get the privilege of paying MSRP without being on a waiting list.

On the manual transmission thing, I would love to trade up our '01 SLK for the AMG version because it's also a "monster" but the lack of a 5-speed would keep me away. By not offering a manual in any of their AMG-tuned cars, Mercedes seems to be saying "We're positioning this car for the person with a lot a money who wants to drive a very fast Benz, not the true enthusiast." It's cool if you want an auto anyway, but to me the message they're sending is loud and clear.

With your 330i, I'd take those little rattles back to the dealer to fix. As far as the steering goes, did you test drive the light steering when you made your purchase decision? Did you know what you were buying and then after living with it for awhile you changed your mind? I've never driven the "heavy" steering so maybe it's good that I don't know what I'm missing.

mfeldman

I didn't mind the light steering. It was the unequal effort- lighter when turning left that bothered me. Retrofit lessened problem but in my mind at least it's still there. I'll ask for a rattle fix a t next service.

Don't need the extra second, but with a lot of new 540s around it would be cool. Hard to rationalize the $, whe nmy 330 is 1 year old. You know that Sun America commercial where they tell you that the $5000 watch will cost you $22,000 in retirement savings.

I do like the center 3 point seabelt and the curtain air bags.

dave330i

"It was the unequal effort- lighter when turning left that bothered me."

You should have that looked at then. I don't have that problem.

brave1heart

I would drive it for about 90-95K miles and then try to sell it myself. You probably do a lot of highway driving, so your car doesn't wear as much as a car with fewer city miles. It is a little tougher to sell a car with >100K miles, maybe because of the psychologically important extra digit. You should be able to get at least 40% of the original price that you paid for a 4-year, 95K mile 3-sereis in a good shape. Not a bad deal on per-mile basis. Keeping it to 175K miles is not attractive - you need a reliable car if you do that much driving plus your company absorbs some of the cost and it is pre-tax to you. You are a salesperson I'm guessing?

As most of you know, I live in Boston and drive both our 325i SP and A4 1.8T Quattro on weekly basis. If I had to pick one and only one car, it would undoubtedly be the 325i REAR-WHEEL-DRIVE with sport package and a separate set of snow tires or all-seasons on the original 17-inch rims. The Audi with all-seasons is already unstoppable in snow, you really do not need snow tires for it unless shorter stopping distance in snow/ice is of major concern to you. My BMW AWD experience is limited to the X5 and unlike the Audi, all you can do with it if you start skidding is slow down. In snow and ice, you can easily throw the A4 into an oversteer slide right before the turn and then accelerate through the corner with a totally predictable power slide. Just ask me how I know ) Also, if you let off the gas while cornering aggressively, the back end will come out (oversteer again) and then you can easily accelerate through the corner exit. What I am trying to say is that the A4 is a lot more of a rally car and I think it will easily outperform the XI when both are equipped with the same tires. You CANNOT keep accelerating with the XI - all it does is slow you down so you don't slide in the turn while the A4's Quattro does not work off the brakes like the BMW's and will transfer torque between different wheels (including side to side) to allow you to accelerate through the turn with minimum sliding. For most of you, this may not be of importance because you probably will not be driving your car rally-style. And if that is the case, you'd still be better off without an AWD as long as you get a set of all-seasons or snow tires for the winter - still cheaper to buy and to maintain than AWD, outperforms the AWD on dry roads, great traction and stopping power in snow, plus it keeps the car 200-250 lbs lighter than AWD. Not to mention that the RWD is a better year-round performance platform and it will be a lot more fun to drive than any AWD.

brave1heart

Question is, would the 22K in retirement savings be able to buy that same watch in 30 years ;o) Those commercials do not factor in that the watch price will also be going up over the years. And would that watch make you as happy when you're 70 or would you be happier to have it when you're 30?

As far as M-B, do get it of you really want one but to most people you'll still be saying "Look at me and my status". I'd rather everyone know that I love to drive and to please get out of my way.

nyccarguy

Let me preface this by saying that I was involved in a civil discussion with a gentleman on the Lincoln LS board who was insisting BMWs are for "yuppie scum," were expensive to buy & maintain compared to his Lincoln LS-V8. A third party expressed his opinion regarding my post. His reply was based on this part of my post, which is noted by the arrows below.

<<<if you poke around on the 3 and 5 series board, you'll notice that BMW people absolutely love to drive. You've probably got more in common with them than you think:)>>>>

I for one would like to state I don't have anything in common with the typical BMW driver. I drive 35,000 plus miles a year as a sales rep so I have been observing certain things for a long time. Most, not all, BMW drivers drive like the world should get the hell out of their way. I drive fast but I don't constantly change lanes at high speeds when there's no room to fit in. They do this on highways and city streets. I don't use the sholder to pass when I'm frustrated. I don't bypass the people in the long line at the exit ramp only to stop in the slow lane to bull my way in because I'm too important to wait like averyone else. I don't park at the red curb at the mall because I'm too important, busy and in a bigger hurry than the rest of the population. I see this crap EVERY day. And the only difference between the BMW driver and the Benz driver is that the Benz driver dosen't change lanes he just flashes his lights from a half a mile away. He's even more important so he dosen't change lanes. Don't bother telling me I must be impeading traffic or I'm jealous. I drive fast ON THE HIGHWAY and I've owned a number of decient cars.

nyccarguy

I agree with brave about getting rid of your car before it hits the magic 6 digit (100,000 mile mark).

dave330i

LOL. That's a good one. It's good to laugh once in a while.

nyccarguy

did nothing to instigate or antagonize this individual.

bing330i

We have been traditionally owners of MBZ, including SL and E(D), though not AMG. The 330i is our first BMW after some wonderings with MBZ. I'd say MBZs are more dedicate than BMWs, especially transmissions. I know several guys had troubles with their new E and C models' transmissions. Two had to rebuild them at fairly low miles. Also keep in mind, with AMG, normal MBZ shops would not take you, which means more costly dealers will be your only option. Just some food for thoughts in case you are not so patient to inconveniently and financially baby a Benz.

dave330i

Ah, but you own a BMW. In his mind, all BMW owners are SOBs.

nyccarguy

That's the other thing...I don't own a BMW (I would like to in the near future), so just because I post on the BMW boards, he assumes that I own a BMW. I'm glad I didn't tell him I drive a Saab. But it was good for a laugh!

mfeldman

I don't want a super charger exploding on me. But it is seductive

ccotenj

nah, you (like i) DO drive like the "typical" bmw driver... we just don't drive like the atypical bmw driver that the stereotype is based upon...

heck, i rarely ever exceed 75 on the interstate... why get a ticket for going in a straight line? that makes no sense to me...

forsooth... a SCAAB???? (actually, i LIKE saabs... 'specially ragtops!)

mfeldman - superchargers on street cars rarely, if ever, explode... if you've got the extra bucks for the amg model, and that's what you want, you should get it... i would go to a mercedes board for more clear advice on the do's and don'ts however... there are as many mythical stories floating around about mercedes as there are about bimmers, if you get my drift...

-Chris

nyccarguy

dave330i

change driving style.

brave1heart

I guess I will not be a "typical" BMW driver either. Wondering if I should "find my own road" with a Saab instead )

I care very little about what other drivers think of me for driving a BMW (family and friends is what matters to me) but other drivers do get out of my way a lot faster when they see a BMW come up from behind.

div2

There are some decent guys(enthusiasts even!) on the LS board, but there are also a few who spend all their time talking about how their LS is just as good or better than a BMW. One guy even claims to have outrun an M3. Funny how you don't see any of that on the BMW boards...

huntzinger

Gosh, I think I've seen more jet black Lincoln Towncars (with limo license plates) doing those nasty things he complains about, than all of the BMW and MB's combined.

FWIW, I'm a fellow "Slob" owner. Wonderful car, if you like rapid depreciation ;-)

-hh

nyccarguy

That's the beauty of leases subsidized by the manufacturer. If I really wanted another one, I could get a loaded 9-3 SE w/ scheduled maintenance for less than what I pay now for my '00 base model. I'm going to steer away from another Saab as my next car and try and get myself into a 325Ci or A4 1.8T Quattro when the lease is up on my 9-3 in December.

huntzinger

I'm going to steer away from another Saab as my next car...

Same here. Long story short, I've had a particularly miserable experience with manufacturers defects. Specifically, two transmissions and a partial engine rebuild before 50K miles. More of this story is listed here .

-hh

hippo168

sorry for the off topic, but I'll be going to Germany next week, and I'll visit Munich for a few days.

For those who had been there, where is a good area/hotel to stay? Also, does anyone have a detailed map of Munich?

Thanks.

rhmass

allano, I read your post on your winter experience so far with the 325ixT with much interest, since I just put in an order for one. I didn't have the benefit of test driving it in the snow since we have had very little so far this winter. My decision to go for the ix model was based on its more solid feel and the less than expected penalty on power in comparison with the RWD model. Your description of its snow handling capability is most encouraging. Have you put on dedicated snow tires on the sport wagon? If you have accomplished all the maneuvering in the snow with the stock all season tires, that would be really impressive.

orkwis

Check back about 2 pages, post 13016. I stayed at and liked the Munich City Hilton for a variety of reasons, but it is a US chain.