BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

white6

after viewing some silver grey metallic cars over on bimmerfans.com. Had ordered jet black/black 'ette and changed it to silver grey metallic/natural brown leather. Cost me an additional $1,925 but I figure it's worth it to get exactly what I want. According to bmwusa.com and the BMW catalog, this color combo isn't available in the US. Queried my salesman about it and he checked. 5 orders currently in work for US delivery. Said the computer accepted the change! I'm very excited as I really didn't think they would allow this combo to be ordered. He also told me that, as he half-expected, my "sold" order was moved up from week 27 to week 23 production status. Probably looking at second week of July for delivery. Looks like about seven weeks of sleepless nights!

asleepy

After waiting many years and then the final 8 weeks for delivery, I finally got my '03 325i MT. I had heard that BMWs had more quality issues than Toyotas and Hondas but I was betting that I won't be a statistic. Well, I was wrong. I've my car for 5 weeks now and had to take it back to the dealer twice. First at 700 miles, the coolant temp. sensor overloaded so I had to have it towed. Then over this past weekend, while driving on a flat road, heard this grinding/bumping sound coming from the left front tires. The DSC light began to flash and the yellow BRAKE light came on. I pulled the car into the nearest parking lot and turned it off. I checked all the wheels to make sure I had not run over something and could not find any obvious obstructions. I turned the car back on and the DSC light and the BRAKE were gone. I drove for another mile and the same sound came back from the wheel and the DSC blinked for 10 secs. and went away. I called the dealer and made an appt. for Wed. and in the meantime, yesterday going home, after a left turn, same thing -- sound from the wheel, DSC light and the yellow BRAKE light.

Yes this in under warranty and it won't cost me anything but 2 service visits before the 1200 miles break-in period is over seems 1 too many.

It is a great car and fun to drive but if this pattern of things breaking down holds and I have to continue to return to the dealer for service every month, it won't be fun anymore.

How do other owners deal with the quality issue? Do you all just shrug and say this is the price we pay for driving a BMW? Maybe I am in the minority -- maybe everyone else's car is troublefree. Thanks.

riez

kdshapiro... Check out the June 2003 issue of Bimmer magazine. Tech Q&A section, pages 34-38. Query titled "Tire rotation: Why BMW doesn't recommend it." Found Mike Miller's discussion most interesting. Makes sense. Seems too bad BMW, its dealers, and customers don't work together on this issue. If only BMW and its dealers would educate consumers. That way consumers know what might happen and wouldn't then complain against the dealer.

Rotational issue really only pops up on cars that use same size tire on all four wheels. And that don't use unidirectional tires.

One solution: buy a BMW that has staggered tire sizing and unidirectional tires. You can't rotate. End of issue. (My 540i6 has 235/45/17 up front and 255/40/17 in rears.)

Big thing everyone can do is periodic 4-wheel alignment. Keep her in spec and you'll get the most out of your tires. I say do this about every 10,000 miles or thereabouts.

kdshapiro

Not that this is any consolation to you but BMWs placed extremely high in the JD Power Initial Quality Survey. Even higher than Infiniti.

That being said I have had my share of Japanese autos that have gone back to the dealer a number of times before the first oil change, thinking it really didn't bode well. Well those cars turned out to be okay, sort of.

It's annoying for sure, but you have a 4 year warranty so work with the dealer for fix the issues and enjoy the car.

kdshapiro

Would you mind elaborating on the issue of tire rotation? Thinking I still may bring the car back for an alignment. It think it's cheap insurance compared to the cost of high performance tires.

seivwrig

I had the tire rotation and alignment. My service advisor felt that I should get the most out of the tires as opposed to dumping tires that still had some tread life. I had to get the alignment because my steering wheel was off center and the outsides of my front tires were wearing fast. I will probably change my tires this summer for Kumhos or Yokohamas. Considering your mileage, you could probably get 10,000 more miles if you rotate. Otherwise, your rears might be good for 5,000 miles.

mg330ci

I have come with a new conspiracy theory ;-)

Bangle has bought a significant stake in the BMW Certified Pre-Owned program. As He is getting a big % of the CPO sells, Bangle has created this perfect scheme to increase his income!

By messing up with the 3 and 5 re-designs, the market for older BMW will triplicate, securing his future income regardless of what happens with his job at BMW :-D

Just kidding. However, please don't destroy the 3 series, I don't want it to look like Carmen Miranda with extra makeup, tons of mascara, etc. I don't want it to become bigger nor heavier!

If the American market wants a BMW Camry, make it and name it something else, but keep the 3 series a 3 series!

By the way, thank denk for the TSB number

shipo

What about the fruit? ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

dan_bmw

The BMW instructions do not work because I believe there is a step missing. To make them work follow them (the instructions) to the end. Then while the car is parked outside the garage with the garage door opened press the red signal button on the garage opener unit (not the remote) a red light should flash. Go quickly to the car and press the button you programmed (1, 2 or 3?)for a few seconds release then press it again and the door should close and you should be in business. If you have any further trouble call the 800 number on your instructions card and they (the vendor)will walk you through it. I know it is frustrating. Good luck.

tenet1

Sorry to hear about your problems. Hopefully they will all be taken care of for you quickly and at no cost.

From the many BMW boards out there, one would think that BMW's have a lot of issues because there are so many forums to express discontent at BMW if something minor goes wrong with ones car. I have had no problems in 1.5 years and just took the car for its free annual oil change. Also, my dealership and service experience has been excellent.

By contrast, my previous honda had so many things cracking and falling out during the 1st year of ownership. I guess it is hit or miss with every manufacturer.

erickpl

I had a similiar dilemma when I installed mine. But since I had to program my Jeep to do it, it was easy. The instructions are good, but not complete. I went the route of programming the UT to the remote in my car. THen I programmed the remote in the car to the garage door opener. It worked just fine.

Has anybody noticed that you have to be fairly close to get the garage door to open?

-Paul

newguy14

Anybody have experience with this... what's your opinion? From what I've been told they only used it in vehicles made in the first 4 months of 2001. Also, if you have it... I heard BMW will replace it with the current system for free. Is all this true?

memphis10

Does anyone know in what respect is the extended warranty through the CPO program different from the original manufacturers' warranty. BMWUSA website says it's different but doesn't have the details.

blkonblk330i

I don't have any experience with the light steering because I was lucky enough that my 2001 330i had a build date of June 2000, and BMW started to lighten up the steering in July 2000. How do I know about this? I called BMW USA and they confirmed my car was not effected.

I'm not exactly sure when they corrected this mistake, but you can call BMWUSA to see if your car has the light steering. They will replace for free but I hear from other forums there is a long waiting list now.

The phone for BMW USA is 800-831-1117

newguy14

But you've heard that it is lighter. I have the original window sheet on the car and it says speed sensitive steering. Sounds like if there is a long waiting list then nobody liked it.

newguy14

Thanks... I just called and am now on the list to get it "fixed".

blkonblk330i

When are you scheduled for retrofitting?

newguy14

I don't know yet. They said someone from BMW USA would call me within the next two days to confirm. They would then send the parts to a local BMW and I would just need to schedule an appointment with them. She did say that they were really backed up at one point but they're pretty much caught up now. She made it seem like it would be soon.

biggeststick

All,

 I just bought my first BMW ever, a 2002 325I silver/black.....and only option is a sunroof. Even though it's bare bones, I love it, and bought the car this way because I want to make some changes myself. The first thing I want to do is change the wheels.....and I was wondering how large you can go on wheel size before creating problems for yourself. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. Any other things you would change/add would be appreciated as well.

Biggest

riez

memphis10... Thought their web site had details. You can stop by a dealer and pick up a brochure and detailed information. The CPO warranty essentially adds 2 years & 50,000 miles of coverage to the original factory bumper-to-bumper warranty. However, their are two major caveats. First, there is a $50 deductible to repair visits. Second, the coverage is slightly less comprehensive than the original bumper-to-bumper warranty. Pretty comprehensive, but there are some things not covered.

You do get roadside assistance with CPO. CPO coverage has nothing to do with the original free maintenance period, though you can buy a one year extension to that program for the older cars that were originally 3/36 maintenance.

I bought both my current BMWs CPO. I've been very satisfied so far.

nyccarguy

I assume in your excitement you mean you got a new 2003, not 2002 325i.

Either way, congrats!

div2

Unless you want the "Bling Bling NBA Drug Dealer" look I would suggest wheels no larger than 18". Keep in mind that 25-40 aspect ratios greatly increase the chances of wheel damage due to potholes and such. I'd strongly suggest attending several BMW CCA driving events prior to modifying your car; the best way to improve your car is to train the person behind the wheel.

ksoman

Thanks for the helpful suggestions Dan and Erick. I had the additional instructions provided to me, but yet.....
Anyway, a simple early nightmare woke me up and i just finished succesfully programming the opener.
1. My garage opener is manufactured by Genie
2. They call the rolling code as Intellicode
3. For Genie, their instructions say that once the receiver learning is triggered and the light is blinking, press the remote (bmw transreceiver) button 3 times
4. I did that and it did not work
5. I did that again, this time holding the button 2 seconds approximately for each of the 3 times and it worked, voila!
6. To second Erick, yes I observed you have to be real close for the garage to open and also unlike free standing remotes, the one in the car can't be used if the car is switched off...

cheers
kso

hgeyer

I have two Sears openers; one is 4 years old, the other 6 months old. While both are rolling code technology, they operate on different frequencies (I didn't realize that Sears offered 2 different models of the same opener when I bought the newer one).

If I have the UGO "learn" one of the remotes, it will not learn the other. I essentially can use the opener on only one door.

Has anyone else experienced this?

mrl11777

Sorry, but I think that you are doing something wrong. My UGDO operates 2 different Sears openers (both rolling code) and a Genie. Try programming it again and check out the homelink website for more info.

seivwrig

That's pretty funny as far as Bangle. My concerns about the redesigns of the 3er and 5er is the added weight. I don't consider myself a BMW enthusiast by any stretch of the imagination, but to be the Ultimate Driving Machine. A car does not need excessive weight. Sometimes I think BMW NA is compromising the BMW's performance qualities for luxury. If I truly want luxury, I will buy an M-B or an Audi. If you look at all the technology going into the new 5er, I'm surprised it cannot drive itself. I guess BMW will soon know how to give you simulated road feel based on a button setting. They already amplify the engine sound in the cockpit of some of their cars. This why cars like the Porsche 911 GT3 (996) are a big deal. They are like a drawback to the cars like the E30 M3 Evo. Maybe BMW needs to create the 1 series like the E30 M3 Evo and just add ABS, kill the ACC, AFS, DSC, CBC, IDrive and just give some people a car. I have a pickup truck with rear ABS only. It takes more skill for me to drive it than my 325i.

I guess there has to be a way to find out if Bangle gets a cut from CPO 8-)

shipo

FWIW, the new E60 5-Series is supposed to be a little larger inside and out when compared to the E39 (something like 2" of rear legroom alone), however, it is actually supposed to weigh a little less than the E39 due to extensive use of aluminum.

Best Regards,
Shipo

fedlawman

My fear is that reliability over the long haul will suffer as more technology is crammed into these cars.

How much will it cost to repair your "i-drive" when it starts bugging out six years from now?

seivwrig

My question becomes, "Is this the weigh before or after the alphabet soup?" The realism is that those that will purchase the E60 will load it down with all the goodies they can afford. All the reviews that I have read are positive in terms of the performance. Generally, I like the E60 but I am not fond of the kidney grill, headlights and the lack of the curved dash board. Historically (late 70's to pre-E65), the kidney grill in chrome and curved dash, along with the kink in the c-pillar were part of what defined BMWs. I think that Bangle got an F in automobile design history. I used to be able to identify a car from a small cue. This is not true anymore. Everyone is borrowing from everyone. The problem is that Bangle is borrowing from Pontiac and Acura. If you must borrow, in terms of design, steal from Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Maserati or bodyshops like Bertone, Pininfarina or Ital Designs.

shipo

My friend, you are preaching to the choir on the design issue, it looks like I will be keeping my E39 for a LOOOONG time (either that or looking for a nice used 2003 E39 M5 when the lease my lease is up in 2005). However, done right, the extra goodies should weigh less than the older versions of the same goodies. After all, just the wiring alone could save a fair amount of weight, that is IF BMW has incorporated a common bus for the iDrive and its associated subsystems. I guess only time will tell.

Best Regards,
Shipo

vkwheels

Did mine @ 15200. Very good experience. It was done on a Sat. & they drove me home (apprx. 20 min freeway ride!). It was ready as promised in the afternoon, and nicely washed to boot. This is a 2002 325i step--my first German car since 1977. Pleased to report 0 problems from day 1 thus far.

kdshapiro

First service at 15K is sort of a milestone. I couldn't wait to bring mine in at 14,800. The service advisor told me a could have waited another 280 miles. I guess both of us don't flog our cars. :>(

BTW. My dealer has the interesting key readers. The key reader reads the vin, mileage and service interval and more from the key. Interesting stuff.

ksoman

Hey, I found the reason for having to be close to the garage to open the door... this is what Genie says (I've a Genie)...

Get a fresh battery into your handheld before you program your car's homelink... the signal can get very weak due to high battery drain in programming cycle. Additionally they actually ask you to program your universal at 2 inches, then if it works, program it by holding the remote at 4 inches and keep increasing till you are well around 8 inches. if you can get upto 8 inches, your car can open the garage from a farther distance... i tried and it worked.

http://www.geniecompany.com/Support/replaceremote.htm

ksso

kominsky

This morning on my way to work, I took my car up to it's top speed. It was an indicated 134mph. Since most (all?) cars, trucks, and motorcycles have a built in speedometer error (they read faster than actual speed) I can believe that the speed I was actually travelling would have been 128MPH.

My question is; what speed measuring device is the speed limiter using? I previously would've guessed it was the same sensor that the speedo uses, but I no longer think that to be the case.

For what it's worth, I do not condone driving at these speeds on public roads, nor do I make a habit of doing it. It was an empty road with the exception of me and a truck. The actions of the truck's driver prompted me to decide it was in my best interest to get out of the area in a timely manner.

kdshapiro

How did the car feel travelling at that rate?

As far as the sensor, the revolutions of the drive train could be used. Where is the sensor for the speedometer located? Where is the sensor for the odometer located? In addition, the sensor could have been off a couple of mph.

kominsky

In a word... amazing. It almost seemed to become more 'planted' as the speed increased. Whatever lift is being generated at that speed was not perceivable. My previous car was an Altima and somewhere around 90mph it started to feel like it was about ready for take-off.

joes230

Bangle's designs seem to entail lots of non-functional surface detailing. Swoops, facets, creases, etc. This seems antithetical to traditional German Bauhaus design, which has greatly influenced German cars until now. That design school emphasizes economy of form -- no extraneous, unnecessary elements. It also emphasizes form follows function -- there's a logical, functional reason for each design element, not just sheet metal creases based on a designer's whim.

After repeated viewing, I have sort of talked myself into thinking the E60 is OK. However you shouldn't HAVE to convince yourself if the design is really good. E.g, the first instant I saw the previous generation Audi A4, I though Wow! What a nice design. I didn't have to squint and say "it's really not so bad once you get used to it".

I understand Bangle's concept of appealing to a wider audience to sell more cars. Maybe it will work. For decades Detroit's mantra was "sheet metal sells", and focusing on that worked for a while. I know lots of non-enthusiasts who think BMWs look plain or austere, so maybe it will work.

But I'd rather BMW continue a conservative, minimalist design approach, focus on
engineering, and leave the sheet metal pyrotechnics, avant-garde interiors and iDrive to the Japanese and Americans.

This is all the more ironic considering BMW used to have an anti-Mercedes advertising slogan saying: "our status symbol is under the hood, not on top of it". With Bangle (the Picasso of automobile designers) this is changing.

After Bangle, it appears if you want classic, conservative Bauhaus styling, you'll have to get it from Audi. Also if you prefer the curved, cockpit-style dash or the aircraft-like gauges, you'll have to get that elsewhere as well.

Maybe five years from now we'll adjust and prefer new BMW interior and exterior designs. Heck, maybe by then everybody will even like iDrive. But right now the new stuff is quite a jolt.

dhanley

Ok, here's the situation.

I have a 1997 328i. Been great, had a few little problems, some of which the dealer fixed, no problem, some of which have been written off as "can't duplicate." Sometimes the dash lights go out when it's cold, no one knows why. Also heard a weird engine tick that went away.

But overall everything is stock after 6 years and 85K miles. In general i get really paranoid about machinery and repairs, so i envision every little noise costing me a couple grand. Nothing major's gone wrong yet, but i don't know if that means i'll continue to be repair-free for four more years, or, if, after the warranty expires, i'd be paying to have a new 328i shipped here from munich part-by-part. Again, paranoia.

But the CPO warranty is just about to expire. Therefore, being a nervous nelly, i'm considering trading it in. On? A mini! The mini is the only car i'd want to replace my 3 with that isn't really expensive. I've driven one and i really loved it. I think it's more fun to drive than an m3.

I'd probably have to shell out about $4000 to conduct the transaction. I may be wrong on this count, perhaps overestimating the value of my trade. But i think it's in the ballpark, as the car is well-maintained and has a good set of snow tires on good rims.

Then i get three years of upkeep, four years of warranty. I estimate $1500 in upkeep costs over the three years-- inspection 1 & 2, my bi-yearly synthetic oil changes, and a brake and coolant flush. So, if repairs have a fair chance of exceeding $1500-$2500 over four years, it makes financial sense. Somewhat less, and i can rationalize peace of mind and using the mini to kiss cones.

Remember, nothing has been replaced on this car but the climate control, so i'm guessing clutch/water pump/alternator are likely. Shocks too i guess? Oxygen sensors?

I'm thinking out loud to some extend, but i guess i'd be interested in hearing from people with 90K+ miles e36's out of warranty with regards to upkeep costs.

dave

sopecreek

ksoman

As somebody who travels often to germany for extended periods on business and having lived and interacted with them and driven around quite a bit, i've to agree with Joes about the form follows function... we often joke that you can define germans by a box... they live in a box.. everything is structured like a box and with a good reason... hell they themselves joke about that.

On the other hand, I cannot figure out why people are sooooo paranoid or plain goofed up about iDrive. Its as simple as trying to learn the mouse when it first came out back in the 80s with personal computers... hell, it might be easier than that... I remember spending days trying to get the mouse to move where I wanted it to... as for the iDrive... 15 minutes.....

anyway, cheers

seivwrig

I understand the conservative design approach of German vehicles but BMW has done the creases in the beltline for at least the E30, E36, E39 and E46. The scoops and convex surfaces are not bad, see bottom of rear door on E46. If one felt that the E36 kidney grill was amost gone, then the Z4 was a look at the future. The E60 hardly has what is recognized as a kidney grill and the next 3er might not have the chrome accent. Avantgarde design should be left to the French. I like new designs but be tasteful. I don't want to see a BMW morphed into a Pontiac Aztek. At the same time, I don't want a car that will look as uneventful as a Acura or Honda. Buying an automobile is supposed to be fun. I don't like the looks of the Scooby WRX STi but I would still consider one based on performance. I buy a car based on performance and function. Physical looks are a bonus. The only time that I would not consider butt ugly is when it comes to women.

mg330ci

Sopecreek, here is a useful link to learn more about who Bangle is:

http://www.fastcompany.com/online/62/bmw.html

seivwrig

Interesting article. But like I repeat, design is a close second to performance. Look Nissan/Infiniti has had a resurgence in sales since the new Altima. Lord knows that they are the new masters of the one sausage multiple sizes. Just look at the Altima, Maxima, G35 and 350ZX,Q45. Even the FX35/45 look like the Murano with styling cue implanted into the Quest. Car companies are getting weak. M-B is classic in this arena. For example, C-class/S-class/CL-Class. SLK-class/CLK-class. The M-class, A-class, G-class and V-class stand on their own. The Audi/VW machine is a little better with the A4/A6 and Passat been somewhat similar. Overall Bangle has probably done well for BMW. But where is he trying to head. The competition is steep. With Nissan gaining some French infusion, U.S. steeped in a new horsepower war, Audi has gained a second wind and VW is trying go upscale, What is BMW doing? I hate to say it but the next 3er will look like a smaller E60. The 1er will become the modern day 2002. (I never like the 2002 or 1600 but I like the CSL)

sopecreek

The guy sounds quite ambitious and also controversial.
I happened to like old (the 80's) 325 design a lot although current design is fine, too. Hope he doesn't get carried away too much with upcoming new 3-series.

kyfdx

I agree with most of your assumptions, and think that the Mini would be a great choice, except....

I don't think you are going to trade for anything near $4000. Before you go any farther, stop by the dealer and get a trade value on your car. My guess is they are going to hit a '97 328i with your mileage at $10-12K. Figure about $20K for a nicely equipped MINI.

Good luck,
kyfdx

dhanley

You may be right on the trade-in. My 328 is in really good shape except for a few paint chips, so i think i can get a bit better than 12K for it, but who knows. The dealer has 2 minis i'd like, one for 17K or for 18K. I'll see what they offer me.

kyfdx

Sounds good on the buy side of the equation. My only problem with the MINI is I would want the 'S' with all the goodies.. $25K!!!

regards,
kyfdx

ksoman

This is not a nissan topic so excuse my comment, but people traveling to France regularly will realize that Nissan's new looks, thought out of their california outfit, have a big influence from the new owner of Nissan, Renault... i see the similarities in lines more than mere coincidence...

brave1heart

Kominsky - the faster you drive the E46, the better it gets. It feels nimble, smooth as glass and it somehow wraps around you. Same goes for top speed - smooth as glass at 128 mph!!

BMW NA is subsidizing the lease on the 7-series (62% residual vs. a more realistic 49% estimated by independents). Eating up the cost on the residual is probably the most graceful way out. The Z4 looks like a glorified Tiburon to me - I don't care how well it drives, I don't want to be seen in that car. The E60 is blah... horrible on all the pictures I've seen and the rear looks like a Christmas tree. I am keeping my E46 325i for a looooong while.

I read somewhere that Renault is thinking of re-entering the U.S. market in a few years by using Nissan's dealerships. Don't think there will be any demand for French cars in the U.S. in many years.

I won my class (13 cars) in the last autoX - had to show off!! I've decided to put in UUC sway bars. I think I will pay someone that knows how to do it right. Called Turner Motorsport for a quote - I was told they are racing for the next few weeks and I can't even get a quote but the stock sways are 1 - 1 1/2 hrs of labor. Thought it was cool. These are they guys that I'd love to have upgrade my car's suspension but I don't know if I can wait for 2 months...

kominsky

I have an attraction to UUC stuff, for whatever reason, but Turner sells Racing-Dynamics sway bars on their webpage. I wonder if they race R-D stuff. If they do, maybe that would be the way to go. Especially if you're having them do the install.