BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • dbs8dbs8 Member Posts: 13
    I don't know what B/C stands for, but I know that as far back as 1985 this was on the turn signal stalk (325e) as redundant controls for the dash-mounted on board computer system.

    The rain sensor is a bluish 2"x4" section on the inside of the windshield where the rear view mirror is attached to the glass.
  • walter12walter12 Member Posts: 30
    I have been driving sticks for over 40 years. Yeah, I'm an old guy. We've had several 911's (rubbery/vague shifters), numerous BMW's and English cars to a 1949 Mercury whose column shift linkage would hang up if not shifted just right. Presently one of our cars is a 2003 three series with 5 speed manual. If our car is a true example of BMW sticks, then Blueguydotcom is correct. The transmission is notchy and kicks back on the 2-3 upshift as if the syncro is having problems keeping up. We've had three other BMW's and I don't remember the transmission being as bad as this one...not horrible, just not up to the BMW driving experience.
  • tcn2ktcn2k Member Posts: 277
    BC = bmw computer
  • yalesomyalesom Member Posts: 9
    I have a 2002 325cic in which the full maintanence service is only for 3yrs/36,000 miles. My local dealership offered to extend this to 4yrs/50,000 miles (similar to what is offered for new vehicles) for $500. Has anyone else heard about such a deal and if so is $500 about the price?
  • bmw323isbmw323is Member Posts: 410
    Every car I've ever owned (33 years) has had a stick (until my 2003 4Runner, with no manual transmission option). I agree with Walter12 on the kick back from the syncros, except mine does it on the 1-2 upshift with a big clunk on many occassions. Clearly not up to Honda standards. I've missed a shift several times on the track because the linkage got hung up on the 2-3 upshift, as well. I find it too dangerous to try much speedshifting with my 3 series, fearing engine damage if my right foot is too quick on the accelerator.

    It's funny that most of the car rags still praise the BMW manual. I think they do it because they are just happy BMW continues to offer manual transmissions on all of its vehicles.
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    i agree that the BMW throws could be shorter. my $14K scion xB has super-short throws, and it's an easy clutch and stick to drive.

    as far as performance cars go...guys who are taking their cars and pushing them to the limit aren't about subtlety. that's why you don't find the ferrari and porsche units to be gates that you can easily push around. when you're pulling corners really fast in a switchback, you're not going to be gentle with the clutch and the stick.

    then again, a ferrari is not an everyday driver.

    to each his own, as i said. i like the honda for everyday driving, but i don't think it feels more accurate than the BMW. then again, maybe i just like a notchy shifter! :)
  • thugh325thugh325 Member Posts: 2
    I too find the throws too long and have also experienced kick back, usually from 1-2 gear. I've recently been researching short shifters and have decided on this one:

    http://www.rogueengineering.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY- &Store_Code=RE&Category_Code=OCTSL

    Anyone have any experience with them? Any thoughts?

    Tim
  • memphis10memphis10 Member Posts: 161
    Honda manual may appear smoother because of the engine tied to the tranny. A bigger flywheel in a Honda helps to maintain the engine RPM when the clutch is pushed in and therefore it engages better when let out. With the BMW the engine rpm drops very fast and coupled with long throws, makes smooth shifting a little difficult.
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    BMW's clutch and shifter. The clutch is notoriously touchy. And there are times I can't even get the damned thing into first! The posts criticizing the clutch, especially trying to make a smooth shift from a stop are so numerous on every BMW forum I've visited that I can't see any reason to question someone's experience with manuals... In fact, just the opposite. If someone is saying the clutch engagement is good on a BMW, I have to question how much seat-time they have with other manuals.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    If i'm not mistaken the 6 speed on my ZHP is supposedly a short shifter. Guess the boys in Germany have never experienced a miata shifter. That's heaven. You don't even have to move your elbow. :)
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I'm really surprised. As a step driver who has drooled to get a stick one day when my driving habits and needs change, I always thought that BMW was known for their sticks. I know that they sell a very high % of their cars with sticks compared to the other makes. Is this a generally accepted "fact" that the transmission is not that good? It would seem to belie the data that I see in all the mags where they rave about the 3 series and almost always test them in manual form.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,532
    Ditch the auto when your lease is up and go for a stick! One of the points some of the guys here are trying to make is that even though the cars transmissions may have faults, the stick makes a BMW an absolute blast to drive!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I may not love my stick but I would never own a 3 series with an automatic. Might as well buy a Buick if I got an auto.

    BMW may sell a tad more sticks than most makes but every dealer will do his darnedest to talk you into a Steplazyic. Step onto a lot and 95% of the cars are autos backed up by salesmen logic: "If you buy a stick resale will be lower." Duh, you mean forgoing a 1200 dollar option will mean I'll make 1k less on my resale? Gee, I guess I should buy the automatic, be bored with my car, spend more now and have a few hundred bones extra on resale. Solid logic. Sheesh...

    Get what's fun for you! These cars are toys. We could all get by with some banal Taurus or Malibu for 20k less. But we don't.
  • ss2u2ss2u2 Member Posts: 17
    I have an 02' 330cic now, which is my 2nd ragtop. I personally will never tire of riding with the top down, with a cool breeze blowing thru my hair.
    The bmw top is triple insulated. The car is slightly less quite than a hard top. Thru one Chicago winter, I thought the car stayed as warm as a hardtop. Windows up, no drafts, wind noise is negligible (see below). (Caution: the sun can get intense and the breeze will mess up your hair:-)
      drawbacks:
               1)the interior will get dirty quicker
               2)uv protection is needed more often
               3)negligible cowl shake (no b pillar)
               4)blind spots with small rear window
               5)when top is up, billowing noise in
                 rear from top with both front
                 windows down. (with ragtop won't
                 drive that way often)
               6)some (common to ragtop) rattles
               7)cloth top needs yearly cleaning and
                 protectant
               8)many car clubs will not allow rag-
                 top in driving schools etc. autox
                 works tho.
     I hope this helps... GREAT BOARD FOLKS!
  • andergtrandergtr Member Posts: 101
    and the previous poster is correct about almost any dealer trying to get you into an auto. the 325ci stick felt more responsive than the auto on the 330ci, even though the 330ci is probably 0.5 seconds quicker to 60 mph.

    to me, a big part of the BMW experience is how the car responds. when i'm doing 80 to 90 mph on my way to work--i start work at 5 a.m., so the freeways in LA are actually relatively clear at 4:45 a.m.--i like to be able to know that i can get some more power out of the car to pass up the guy who is barely awake and doing 55 mph in the fast line by dropping the clutch and going to fourth gear.

    when i'm driving through malibu canyon on the way to get some sushi at nobu, i want to be able to feel I'M the one driving the car instead of pushing the steptronic up and down.

    the guys who like the honda sticks...well, if you like that kind of action, then the BMW just might not be for you. they are worlds apart. it's like trying to argue than blue is a "better" color than red.

    for those who are having problems shifting from first to second gear or second to third gear, maybe the much forgiving honda stick is a better fit. the BMW stick is not as forgiving, but i find that it's a good unit.

    and, yes, i've spent plenty of time behind the wheels of other cars, and so i have a pretty good sample of what other cars feel like. in the end, it's pointless to argue about what is "better" or worse...to me, it's all about personal preference. and lots of guys like the BMW sticks. i'm one of them.
  • scipio1scipio1 Member Posts: 142
    I got $400 for the same on our 2001 330i. They like to quote that extension high and go from there. The original quote he gave me was $800. If they give you a hard time with it, I can pass you the name and number of the guy I bought from.

    Go blue!

    Eli undergrad, BK'94, MBA from the Dark side
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    My next BMW will be another stick. :)

    It's just that there are lots of better feeling clutch/tranny combos out there.

    I have given some serious consideration to the SSG transmission (electonic clutch) that will soon be available across the 3-series line (if it isn't already) and I sometimes wonder if BMW engineers haven't been given time to improve the manual clutch because BMW is utilizing them on the SSG instead.
  • jim1395jim1395 Member Posts: 34
    its called smg (sequential manual gearbox)
  • mrl11777mrl11777 Member Posts: 154
    should be a separate thread. Let the whole circular argument spin out in its own area, admin.
  • thugh325thugh325 Member Posts: 2
    between complaining and wanting to improve upon an already great car. Like most others here I would never trade my stick for an automatic. I have driven nothing but sticks for the last 19 years. Do I want a Honda shifter? No! Would I like for this shifter to have slightly shorter throws? Absolutely!

    I bought this car because it's so much fun to drive and have never regretted it. I love it. However, that doesn't mean it's perfect. Especially, the more you drive it. You start to notice those very small things and want to improve them. IMHO a short shifter is a logical upgrade to this outstanding car.

    Tim
  • atlantabennyatlantabenny Member Posts: 735
    I'm new to this board but am a regular on the Accord forum.

    Presently faced with an opportunity to swap my 03 Accord V6 Coupe automatic (12k miles) with an 00 323CI automatic (54k miles). Price is vitually a wash, and so the switch would be financially painless.

    Given an ownership scenario for another 2 years (about 40k miles' worth) on either car, I was wondering about:

    1) Maintenance & repair cost
    2) Depreciation / resale
    3) Ownership satisfaction independent of 1) & 2)

    Any words of wisdom would be appreciated. Thanks !
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    Yes, you're correct. The early name for this type of arrangement was SSG on non-M vehicles, but apparently it's been renamed to SMG -- same name but different from the SMG in the M-cars.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Stick with the Accord if reliability, build quality and low repair costs are important to you. An out of warranty BMW 3 series is not recommended by CR for a reason - they're not very well made cars and expensive to keep running.

    Are they fun? Yep. But if you're not someone who wants to pay steep repair bills or if you prefer your cars are rock solid, stick with the Japanese cars.

    BTW, I own a 3 series and it's been fine so far (I've a list of little problems with it but compared to my Jetta it's a rock) but the more I own this car the more inclined I am to get rid of it at the end of the lease. Quite frankly, I'm not impressed by BMW build standards.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Hey blueguy...I'm just the opposite, I am really impressed with my 3-er. The last problem that was fixed was in 6/02 and that was loose weatherstripping. I've never had a car that just runs and runs and runs. Oh yeah, I'm sure something will happen these are cars, they all have glitches, but this car raises the bar against the last 3 Japanese vehicles I've had - hands down.
  • walter12walter12 Member Posts: 30
    In many respects, comparing Accord's to BMW's is like comparing apples and oranges. Having owned several Honda's, I would agree with Blueguy. If 1 and 2 are important to you, than stick with what you have. However, there is no comparison with the driving experience. I don't ever remember thinking as I got out of my Honda that I just had a great time getting groceries. But, there are things that we expect if we own BMW's. Things such as needing to replace window regulators, trim on coupes falling off, popping/snapping rear suspensions, etc, most covered by the manufacturer if within the warranty period. Regardless, I too will consider jettisoning my 3 series before the warranty is up.
  • atlantabennyatlantabenny Member Posts: 735
    ...it looks like there are trade-offs for having the "U-D-M." Since the 2000 323ci is past warranty, I might have to factor in the cost of extended warranty if ever.

    Much thanks for your inputs thus far, Karl, Ken & George.

    Any more additional comments would be appreciated !
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Seems like the 2000 323 is a bit problematic. Although CR does recommend the 3series I think it took until 2002 for BMW to get their act together.
  • ponytrekkerponytrekker Member Posts: 314
    Like many, I traded in an Accord for a BMW, though I traded an 01 Accord for an 03 325i. Not straight up :)

    I wouldn't make the trade you are suggesting. The BMW has a fair bit of mileage. It will probably be worth a lot less with 96k in 2 years than your accord with 54k.

    However, here's my general thought on comparing an Accord to a BMW:

    An accord doesn't handle as well as a BMW. The 01, Honda, being made of lighter sheet metal is also probably less safe. The difference between the brakes is night and day. The BMW stops on a dime.

    However, an Accord is great if you want a car you can drive for ten years, put 20k a year on it and basically start spending $200 a year in maintenance in year 5.

    If you are thinking a BMW get new. The high residual values and supported money factors make leasing a 3 series pretty close to leasing an accord. Once you throw in the 4 year 50k free maintenance it's a better deal.
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    It seems like everyone here is a tried and true believer in sticks. I was thinking the other day that for such a large purchase as a fine auto, how many times do we really have to take a leap of faith. For instance, if one were considering the ZHP, (which I am intrigued by)the chances of finding one equipped like you want and then getting to take for a long (overnight) test drive are a bit remote. It makes me think that maybe one day car companies will have demo centers where one can "rent" the car and drive it for a few days. Then if they buy they can deduct the "rent" from the price.

    I 'd love to take a stick to work for a few days and see how it changes my commute (for better or worse).
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    Thanks for the input on top down driving.
    I get the idea that the wind blowing through your hair may be a bit different than my picture (40 something male who aches for 2 days after tennis and now even after golf).
    I do like the idea of grinning while driving with that freedom even if like you I can only use for 6-7 mos. I think the last few winters in NY have been equal or worse than Chic ago.

    Do you have a stick? And if so, how is it in the chicago traffic.

    How bad is the cowl shake?

    Did you put on winter tires? I change my 330 i every year to a dedicated set.

    And most important, can you fit golf clubs in the trunk.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,532
    Has anybody driven a 330i ZHP & 330i SP back to back to see the differences?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,532
    Does anybody know where to get the ED invoice prices for '04? Eurobuyers only lists the MSRP & ED MSRP.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Has anybody driven a 330i ZHP & 330i SP back to back to see the differences?

    Yep. Night and day. The 330i with sport package is a smooth car but it lacks the raw emotion of the ZHP. From the tighter suspension, to the more responsive gearing, to the throatier exhaust note, the ZHP is more like a wannabe M3 sedan. Tickle the engine over 4500 rpm and it's an absolute mindblowing gas to drive.

    I recently road in a 330i and reflected on how it seemed so subdued and quiet. I'm used to hearing the burble of my exhaust I guess. I missed it during that ride.

    My friends (several bimmer owners) call my ZHP the gray beast because it's more like a raucous critter snarling to get free every time I accelerate.

    Oh my, do I love my ZHP? Let me count the ways...
  • ss2u2ss2u2 Member Posts: 17
    Oh yea...driving a BMW and with the top down is Zen like. It will send you thru the front nine even, then test your patience and concentration on the back:-) I waffled between the stick/auto and ended up with the step, for the amount of stop and go driving I do. The stick is a great driving experience, but the slushbox works for me.
    I'm hoping to get an e30 m3 for track use next summer. The cowl shake is negligible, because of the A pillar reinforcement for rollover protection. Compared to say a sebring, its night and day. bmw did it right imho. I switch to blizzaks in wintertime. (Great traction/poor performance). Not yet tho,I had the top down today! I have a full size golf bag with kick stand and it fits in the trunk(only one bag). A longer than standard driver takes some fanaglin' to get in. Hey you can always hitch a ride with the guy who has the minivan...not! Tell'em you'll meet them there and then take the long way:-) A convertible/hardtop or auto/stick are both tough, personal decisions to make...good luck to ya!
  • westmorlandwestmorland Member Posts: 7
    Need some advice. We are about to buy our first BMW (2004 330Ci)replacing Acura 2000TL and can't decide if the sports package is a good addition. This will be mainly my wife's car with automatic otherwise I would pick the 6 -stick and sports package without question. She is not an aggressive driver and is concerned that the ride with the sports pack might be too rough on her back. Someone told me that the sports seats have less padding but more adjustments ? What do you use in terms of performance with the standard setup vs what do you lose in comfort with the sport pack ?

    Would appreciate any advice

    thanks,
  • mxpro738mxpro738 Member Posts: 59
    I am a recent Japanese --> German convert. The camry I had was numbinginly reliable. I sold it at 90K+ miles (9 years old) and it was just beginning to show signs of wear.

    To me, the gamble was worth it to get into a 330. The driving experience is like night and day between the two cars. In fact, my wife's Odyseey cornered better than my old Camry V6 XLE!

    I figured, worst case, the car is covered by warranty for the first four years. If things aren't looking good after that, I can reconsider other brands, possibly cut my losses, and have lived happily knowing I had the pleasure of driving one of these things for a while.

    I'm an optimist though. The car has had zero problems so far, it appears to be built super-tight, and I anticipate not wanting to give it up when the lease is up in 2006.

    Now I realize you are considering a used model, so you'll need to adjust your thinking accordingly. Personally, I decided that I would either go with a new BMW, or no BMW at all. I cannot speculate as to whether it will work out or for you though. If you are looking for guarantees (no idea if you are), then stick with a Honda... or better yet, consider a Lexus model.
  • mxpro738mxpro738 Member Posts: 59
    Personally, I think the sport seats are a vast improvement in comfort over the standard seats. Furthermore, I belive the sport package's seats are not at all responsible for the stiffer feel, however the suspension on that same package is.
  • atlantabennyatlantabenny Member Posts: 735
    Your sage advice is much appreciated.

    I'm convinced that pre-owned BMW + extended warranty is the way to go if not brand new. However a warranty provider just advised that they won't cover used BMWs if coverage starts after the factory warranty lapses (will cover if odo reads 48.9k miles max).

    Unless another warranty provider offers something better, I'll have to essentially self-insure (regularly put an amount aside for future M & R) or buy / lease new.

    For everyone's info, some off-lease / pre-owned cars in Atlanta appear to be of outstanding cosmetic/mechanical condition even at 50k miles.

    Thanks again for your inputs.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,222
    BMWNA runs a lot of 2003 325i's through Mannheim's Atlanta auto auction.. In fact, they ran 66 3-series yesterday. Probably half of those were '03 325i. The dealers down there should have plenty to choose from. Most of the '03's are loaded with sport and premium packages. The ones I have seen would have MSRP around $38K. I've seen six-month old ones with under 10K miles for sale as low as $31,500.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Edmunds Price Checker
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  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    The suspension tuning is the same on 330Ci's whether they have the sport-pack or not. Any difference in ride comfort would have to be attributed to the seats or the tires (or both).
      
    That said, I suffer from lower back problems and found the sport seats much easier on my back than the non-sport seats.
  • atlantabennyatlantabenny Member Posts: 735
    Thanks for info, Walt. Knowledge is power.
  • bluegray330bluegray330 Member Posts: 12
    I got two master keys with my 330i. One of them is not working for remote control. The manual says that if it has been sit aside for too long, go for a long trip to charge it. I have driven the car with that key for a 1 hour round trip. Is that long enough? Do need more charging time or the key is not working? thx.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I would think a couple of days use would do the trick for a while.
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Well, my 2002 just passed the 50,000 mile mark on Monday. Now I have a bad window regulator in the passenger front.

    I called my dealer to report it and a funny noise from the steering in tight turns. I told him my mileage was 50,400 and change and he talked to the service manager. They are going to go ahead and do the work as warranty work. I told them it would have a bit more since I have to take it to Ontario, CA to pick up my parents for Thanksgiving, and he said no problem.

    They didn't have to do that. But it shows that building a rapport with the service folks can pay off. I have gone to them in the past and had complaints about service, but they were all valid complaints and professionally conveyed with fact.

    BMW of Bakersfield (CA) has been great to me. Just thought I'd share that with y'all.

    -Paul
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Back in 1998 I took my Club Sport to the BMW Store in Cincinnati for an 02 sensor recall as well as an Oil Service. I had just returned home from O'fest 1998 where Satch Carlson and I had drilled a 1/2" hole in the LF wheel center cap in order to mount a speed sensor for a TimeWise rally computer. I had a new replacement roundel emblem to stick over the hole but I hadn't got around to sticking it on. When I picked up the car I found that they had replaced the drilled cap with a new one-complete with emblem-under warranty...
  • tso2001tso2001 Member Posts: 11
    just want to drop in to say hi. I've been lurking around here for awhile while making the decision, test drove bunch of cars & finally took delivery of a red 04 325i a couple weeks ago. Now this little red dude (mainly used by the wife) is sharing the garage with the Miata and MDX. Pretty impressive car, it's almost like a four-door Miata. Thanks again for all your wisdom.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Hey tso - good luck to you with your new baby. With mine, at a year and a half+ with over 20,000, everytime I turn the key I just smile, still.

    Your red sounds awesome. Take a photo or two and post in the owners gallery!
  • ptrekkerptrekker Member Posts: 51
    >>Now this little red dude (mainly used by the wife) is sharing the garage with the Miata and MDX . . .

    Better nip that in the bud. You'll never see it again.
  • walter12walter12 Member Posts: 30
    I think you mean your Miata is almost like the BMW:)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Yeah my bro-in-law just bought a 3 series and my sister is always scampering off with it. She owned a Miata in the past and despises driving an auto equipped SUV but believes the hype that a family must own one station-wagon-listless-piece-of-garbage-truck-thing.

    I keep telling her they should buy one of those fugly X3s next year. She can get her manual and still have a so-called family car. One kid doesn't take up that much space by the way...sheesh.
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