By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I drove an S2000 a few months ago and loved the car. It is one of the most fun cars I've ever driven and probably the best shifter. Although it is very different, the shifter and tranny in my 325 are great too. Throws are long but the takeup is VERY precise with a good feel. Matching revs on downshifts is effortless. The tranny is silky smooth - you let off the gas abruptly at 6K RPMs and the car still doesn't lurch too badly. First to second can be a little tricky for a day or so but anyone with average experience driving a manual should not have problems with it. As far as SSKs, I'd consider UUC first and Rouge second. They are both very good and probably worth the money, although it is purely a driving joy type of thing, not something that will shave tenths on the track.
BMW, on the other hand, requires more babying. expect to replace brakes more quickly and to pay a lot more for doing that. oil changes are more expensive, and little things are going to need more frequently replacing. the actuator in my driver's side car door needed replacing at about 40K miles. my car seems to have a loose belt somewhere because it makes some noise when starting up--time for another trip to the dealer.
the upside is that BMW covers all scheduled maintenance for 4 years/50,000 miles. buy or lease a new car, and all these things are a non-issue for the warranty period.
the reward is the BMW driving experience, which no honda can match. i've had three acuras in the past, and none of them can hold a candle to my 325ci.
my car is almost at the end of the warranty period, so it might be time to sell it and trade up an M3.
the BMW costs enough to maintain that i bought a second car as a beater and a daily commuter, a scion xB. for $14K, you can't beat the standard features the car comes with, and you get that toyota reliability.
it's quite a difference going from one car to the other, of course!
it's quite a difference going from one car to the other, of course!
You bought a scion? I was thinking of doing that but I worry that even with a manul the scion won't cut it for me. I'm now looking into a an old 3.0 CL or V6 Solara. I figure 8-10k is okay as long as it's got a V6. Not sure I can live with a 4 anymore.
Still I need to test a scion before saying no way.
plus, it actually handles pretty well, and for $14K, what else are you going to find? i play music and have lots of gear, and the scion xB is the perfect car for that. better to tear that one up loading stuff in and out as opposed to ripping up the interior of my BMW.
But my son, who's been looking to upgrade, thought the car too good to pass up. So, we got the car Saturday.
The silver 323ci is mesmerizing even in pre-owned state (firstly, it was very well kept with few signs of wear both in and out; all records including window sticker were intact).
This particular car has the premium package (HIDs, memory seats, 17" rims, seat extenders, homelink, etc.) and rides/drives almost like new. I'm especially impressed by the steptronic's smoothness. And, can anything upset the car ?
If anyone's gone over 50k miles in an E46 (correct ?), advice on what to look out for will be much appreciated. Car's got 54k miles and, besides getting an extended warranty ("HondaCare" offers one albeit at a steep price), a personal sinking fund for future M & R is an option.
In any event, we're all excited to finally own "a Beamer" and look forward to the experience. The car's appeal makes me want to forgive, in advance, any M & R issues it might have !
Doug G
You know how Hondaphiles are when they're suddenly Bimmerphiles - not sure of the cars, not sure of the monikers. But Beemers for bikes - I learn something new everyday. Appreciate the education...
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
As for tire warranties, I would have bought one on my car. But then again a replacement tire cost me $375 because not one could be found. Even now they're $225 each. $500 for 3 years? I'd get a flat on purpose!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I really, really dislike Honda's 4 cylinder engines. The TSX is the first Honda 4 that I've considered as a daily car. Beyond their great manual trannies, I dislike pretty much everything about Honda/Acura. The v6s are decent but consistently matched to cars I dislike.
I'm looking for a commuter that's in the 10k range. Drove a 99 Solara tonight that I'm going to talk to my mechanic about as I think the brakes need work - rotors feel warped to me.
Tough to drive anything that doesn't feel like my BMW now.
And congrats to your son!
Karl, I had a 4-cyl 2000 Solara before the Accord, which makes me recommend at least a 6-cyl. Prices aren't that much apart. Extra-mushy suspension, though, is disconcerting in evasive maneuvers. Good excuse for a TRD set-up.
I was a speed/handling freak before the ZHP. Now it's become mandatory. sigh...
i have never figured out what bulbous shapes toyota will now put out next... what happened to the sensible if low key designs of toyota from the past?
ksso
I just joined the BMW world by buying a beautiful, topaz blue, 5-speed, precertified 2001 330I with sport package, moving up from a '98 SVT Ford Contour. I have to say that owning a BMW is everything that I've read about for years. It's
tight, solid, fast, firm, and nearly telepathic in its handling abilities. It's a sweet car. The dealer I worked with was wonderful as well.
That said, I thought I'd share some observations about my car search process and the various models I saw:
- Audi A4: I was particularly disappointed with the A4, especially since I think it is by far the best looking sedan on the road. I drove a Quattro 3.0 with a manual and felt that, while certainly competent and solid, it just wasn't much fun. The two examples I drove had notchy shifters with high take takeups of the clutch. Handling was sharp, but not particularly
communicative. It also had some higher cowl lines, which I didn't like. The interior, while super high quality with admirable attention to detail, wasn't particularly involving or high style. Especially when looking at the price of the high end models, my girlfried (who also drove everything with me) correctly summarized, "this doesn't excite me any more than a Jetta. The SVT Focus was much more enjoyable." Well said...
- Saab 9-3: This was a real surprise, and was probably #2 for me behind the 330I. While I think the styling is starting to hint at "generic everycar," it still is sharp, sporty, and clearly European, if a bit anonymous. The handling was the big surprise. This is one fun sports sedan, solid and sure in how it goes about its business. It just lacks the "woooosh" of acceleration that plasters smiles on my face in the 330I. It has a nice shifter and good balance. The interior, while very roomy and feature packed, was a bit of a letdown in the plastic quality and its "lots of buttons=sophistication" mindset.
The price, normally a Saab plus, gets up there fast with desirable option packages, and the dealers were starting to back off the generous lease deals when I was looking. Also, Saab seems to be another brand about to be destroyed by domestic stupidity (rebadged Subarus and Chevy Blazers? No thank you...). I'll check to see what is left of true Saabness in about 6 or 7 years before I look at them again.
- Lexus IS-300: This was probably my number 3 choice, and a car I fully expected to like and actually did. All the expected positives were there (go-cart like handling, Toyota reliability, very cool gauge cluster), but it too lacked the acceleration of the BMW (this is all in comparison to my SVT Contour, BTW). The styling didn't do much for me, especially the clear lens taillamps. There are hundreds of slammed Civics, Accords, and Integras running around here with similar lamps that, frankly, seem better done. The front styling is also anonymous. The interior design and plastics also seem to more whisper "previous generation Corolla" than "LS400" My girlfriend summed it up well when she said, "this car just doesn't feel very mature." Especially at a good price, I might have gone for it if I hadn't been looking for something more substantial. Also, maybe because they aren't selling well, there weren't that many to choose from...
- Cadilliac CTS and Lincoln LS: Shame on the domestic industry, and Ford in particular, for lacking almost ANY manual transmission, near-lux sport sedans. I looked at the CTS, which I actually admired greatly for it's looks and handling. Its interior, however, is embarrassingly cheap (the reviewers aren't exaggerating when they say the plastic feels like Rubbermaid) and the new V6 isn't available with the manual. I looked at a used manual Lincoln LS (the '03 models don't have a manual version anymore), but it wasn't a better performer or handler than my Contour and also had a disappointing interior. Ford also seems determined to destroy Lincoln, and I wasn't about to buy a $30,000 car from a dying brand. After having owned two SHO Tauri and and the SVT Contour, I was disappointed not to find any other domestic options.
- Ford SVT Focus: I looked at this to try to be faithful to the SVT brand. I actually enjoyed it a lot and for someone looking for a hot hatch this should absolutely be on your list. Its handling and balance is equal to cars thousands of dollars more. Being a Focus, however, it's certainly downmarket from the other cars on the list from a size and quality perspective and downscale compared to my Contour as well. It actually also isn't cheap, listing for only a couple thousand less than my used 330I. I also wish Ford had made a sedan variant as I'm not a big fan of the hatchback's lines.
- Acura TSX and Infinity G35: I didn't actually look at either of these, although I know they are both wonderful drivers. I just couldn't swallow spending $30,000 on a TSX being FWD 4 cylinder when so many other options are available. I also couldn't imaging buying what Europeans know as their Honda Accord. When Cadillac does this with a competent Opel and calls it Catera, they get slammed, but Acura doesn't seem to get the same criticism. Interesting, huh? Also, I can't get over that most of the non-Mercedes/BMW/Audi luxury makes keep changing their brand vision and styling theme every so few years in ways that makes the older models only seem more ancient. A previous generation BMW, Mercedes, or Audi looks classic to my eyes (Like my girlfriend's old 190). Even the newer BMW models are clearly BMW's and don't automatically invalidate the older designs. An old ES300 or Vigor or J30 just looks like yesterday's abandoned styling fad in an attempt at topling the Big German Three. Thus, not only am I not fond of the TSX or G35's styling right now, I'm not convinced they'll look classic once these makers try a new idea in 2005 or 2008.
- My BMW 330I: I actually didn't want to like the BMW. All too often, know-nothing car buyers just get this car for its status. Well, who knew I would fall in love with it instead. While I admore my 3-series in general, I do have some critiques. The interior, while fitting my sensibilities of driver involvement and control, certainly isn't warm or luxurious in ways most people expect. While a tremendously fun machine, I am a little frustrated I haven't found it's "sweet zone" yet. My SVT Contour, for example, is happiest and best balanced at 75-85 MPH on the highway or 45-55 MPH in corners. Slower or faster isn't quite as fun. The BMW, meanwhile, is just so capable that it seems to have a sweet spot that is at speeds far higher than what is legal or that I'm yet willing to try. It is as if the car is always saying, "I'm having an OK time, but lets really get crazy and let our hair down, OK?" The 330 is also really expensive. As you've already gathered, I couldn't afford a new one and had to look at the preowned lot once I was hooked on the 3-series. Thank
- My 1998 Contour: Looking for a new car gave me tremendous respect for the folks who designed my SVT Contour. Looking at the current state-of-the art machines, the SVT Contour still stands out for superb handling and great performance (of all the models I drove, I thought only the 330i and the IS300 matched or bested its road feel). The interior, for it's time, is also well done and better than many current domestic "cost cutting" efforts. I'll be sorry to sell it (is anyone interested??)
More general observations from car dealers and my local community:
- I liked the Chrysler Pacificas I saw on lots, and also like the design of the Crossfire. I think their prices are appropriate to their degree of passion of design.
- It seems every other Asian American of either gender in my area drives a Mitsubishi, as do many others of varying demographics in the 18-30 age group. There are Eclipses, Lancers, and Outlanders everywhere. Considering Mitsubishi's terrible financial performance of late, this means that either all these people are defaulting on their loans or all the cars I'm seeing are used...
- My area (Southeastern Minnesota) must have the highest concentration of Saturns in the nation. For the money, I happen to think they are decent cars and I love the dent resistant skin. But even the slow selling L300 and Ion models are everywhere out here and Vues are commonplace. The local dealer does really good marketing, and that's certainly part of it, but still... What does this say about Midwesterners?
- The pre-professional car of choice in my area (i.e. the people who will, like I did, be buying BMW's and Audi's in several years) is overwhelmingly the VW Jetta. I really can't blame people. Their paint jobs are fantastic, they look fully Germanic and well-built, their cut lines are razor thin, and the interiors are super high quality and dripping with attention to detail. In short, people my age (25-30) are willing to overlook their terrible mechanical quality, dreary interior colors, and mediocre driving experience in order to have a car that shouts to the world, "I'm special, I'm educated, I'm serious, and I'm going places." Considering in how short a time VW achieved this, I think every domestic car maker should be studying the Jetta and VW's marketing very closely.
- Earth to used BMW owners! For some reason, people selling BMW's have rediculously high expectations of the price their cars should get. Way above Edmunds TMV or Black Book. Precertified BMW's at dealers in my area are selling for less than people are listing their end of warrenty models. You're not selling Bentleys or Ferraris people! Used A4, S4, and IS300 owners seem much more realistic.
Whew! That's it! I welcome people's feedback. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Bret
good luck with the car.
and your right that was a really long post
Just curious-- how much mileage and what price range was your CPO in?
That being said, I mainly responded to tell you that you're an idiot if you don't marry that girlfriend of yours...
Don't expect a mini-van (something to be thankful for) anytime soon.
Happy thanksgiving to all.
www.geyer.org/Panke.pdf
Prior to my BMW I owned a '91 SHO, and supped it up with SHO SHOP upgrades.
Almost 270hp at the crank, it smoked just about everything out of the gate except vettes.
That was one fast car and a blast to drive,
I'm sure you'll agree "a real wolf in sheeps clothing"
Ron
I look at some CPO's in Minneapolis. Has anyone had experience with Park Place in Rochester or Motorwerks in The Cities? Motorwerks struck me a somewhat slick, perhaps too much so. Anyone have any experience?
Bret
PS: I got my girlfriend into cars by pointing out the similarities to art and interior design, both of which she is into. I gave her some articles on Harley Earl, J. Mays, and Bangle. Once she saw cars as something that's crafted and not just as appliances, it really opened her eyes.
"The launch for the 3/4 series will be in 2005 at the Frankfurt auto show. We can't wait to try the (270HP) 335i. And the 400HP M4 when it arrives in 2007."
Considering I'm planning my next car purchase in '07 or '8, that's perfect planning for me, unless Alfas are being sold here by then... We'll see!
Bret
Today, my brother and I made the drive to the dealership and learned that that do not have any X3's and they don't know when they will. Not the best way to build customer support.
Does anyone know if the BMW X3 is having manufacturing problems or is subject to a recall?
I can't imagine why BMW marketing would go tot he trouble to send out invitations and then not have the product available or at least a sign posted at the Dealership in explanation.
A supercharged 318ti sounds great: light and nimble, perfect weight distribution, RWD, and hopefully power-to-weight ratio close to the M coupe's. How can you go wrong?
I also sped off in a xA with a 1 inch lowering, 16s, strut tower and CAI. Wow, that little car was unflappable.
Also heard TRD will release a supercharger for the scions within the year. 2k and it brings the power up to 140-150 hp. Not bad for a 2300-2400 car/wagon.
So did you change your car at all to make it feel tighter or a bit closer to your bimmer?
Does anyone know with any certainty when the new 3 Series will be released to the U.S.?
Will it be the Sedans first with the Coupe to follow later or release them all at once?
What month is the Frankfurt Show in 2005 where they will release the new designs?
This was my first BMW I was going to purchase and I wanted to go fully loaded etc but not am hesitating with a new body style, engine etc. coming out soon.
So now I am very confused and could use some help or advice.
Thanks
Though my wife's 02 325i has been perfect since we bought it, I am wondering what experience/recommendations people can offer about the need for extended warranty coverage, and why BMW is apparently not offering such coverage.
Thanks,
Bob
Here're the salient ones:
1) During the factory warranty, the extended coverage is redundant
2) One can buy extended warranty with 1,000 miles remaining on the factory warranty
3) Price for 2) above is either same or lower than at the time of car purchase, with payment terms at 0% APR available
4) The warranty is only as good as the provider. When buying at the time of car purchase, the provider company may not be around 4 years/ 50k miles later
5) Scrutinize warranty terms as to deductible amount (could be as high as $1k), drivetrain and major components (a/c comp, etc.) coverage and others
Hope this helps...