BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

gordonwd

There have been a couple of negative comments on these boards about the BMW manual trans, but I noticed in the C&D test they mentioned that the BMW and one other car (can't remember) were the only ones that could be shifted as hard and fast as the testers could move their arms and feet. That sounds like a good endorsement of the shift linkage.

Anyway, after reading this test and thinking about it for a while, it changed my mind back to ordering my 325i with a manual. After all, this is a sports sedan, and I've been driving sporty sedans with manuals for the past 10+ years (Sentra SE-R, A4 1.8T). Now that I'm moving up to the pinnacle of the breed, I just can't see it with an automatic even though I almost had myself talked into it. And as with my A4, a car with the smaller engine really benefits in performance -- about a second 0-60 on the 325i.

It probably means the dealer will want a bigger deposit on the car since they generally stock zero cars with manual trannies except for the occasional M3 or whatever.

kyfdx

I doubt they would worry too much on a 325i, unless you are getting a stripper otherwise. If no sunroof, then maybe.. But, if you were getting a stripped model, it would probably sell easier with the 5-speed to an enthusiast.

regards,
kyfdx

nacianceno

I heard that they are changing the 325 design for the 2005 model. I'm having a hard time if I should wait till late this year to buy. I love how the current look but i'm afraid that i might regret it when the new model comes out. Does anyone have any idea if they are changing a whole lot about the design?

thanks...

bmw323is

I have the 5 speed transmission and may have been one person that said the BMW linkage could be better. However, BMW's are very good when you drive them hard and shift hard, as the auto magazines would comment on. Sometimes, my shifts are not as crisp as the Honda's/Accura's, and I get a little kick back in the 1-2 shift at times.

asleepy

My '03 325i is a 5-sp manual transmission. In the 10 months since I've driven it, the shifting is okay -- not great but not bad either. My biggest complaint is the vague feeling from 1st to 2nd. Maybe it has to do with the fact that "Reverse" is to the left of 1st while in most other cars, it is below 5th (or at least on the right side). But, I still enjoy driving it.

The problems I've had with this car in the 10 months all have been electrical/software in nature. At least with a MT, you don't have to worry about the car's automatic transmission not functioning properly, as some people have reported in this forum.

My two cents.

sunilb

My manual tranny is pretty smooth... definitely a notch or two below Honda's, but smoother than most. It took me a while to get used to the clutch engagement point (quite high), and the 1-2 shift seems to be rather un-natural until the car is fully warmed up.

I think that's the thing with BMW's MTs (compared to Hondas or Nissans)... there seems to be greater inconsistency from one vehicle to the next.

Overall, though, this is one of the most enjoyable, all-around cars I've ever had.

shipo

"I think that's the thing with BMW's MTs (compared to Hondas or Nissans)... there seems to be greater inconsistency from one vehicle to the next."

That is partly because the 323i/325i use(d) a 5-Speed transmission from Getrag while the 328i/330i 5-Speed unit was from ZF, and now the new 6-Speed manual (according to what I have read) is sourced again from Getrag.

Best Regards,
Shipo

sunilb

shipo... so which is [supposedly] better: ZF or Gertrag?

jb_shin

Getrag is usually said to be more "heavy duty". They are used by the M-series models and 540i (6-speed). I thought all the other models are using ZF units, step or manual.

shipo

The 6-Speed unit from the 540i6 is heavier duty than the 5-Speed ZF unit from the 328i/330i (1999-2003), which in turn is heavier duty than the 5-Speed Getrag unit found in the 323i/325i. FWIW, when you switch between the 5-Speed ZF and the 5-Speed Getrag, you can really feel the difference when you shift, the ZF just feels beefier.

Relative to the new 6-Speed Getrag unit found in the 2004 330i, one would assume that it splits the difference between the two extremes just like the 5-Speed ZF transmission it replaces. Regarding the automatic transmissions, I think they are all made by ZF, but don’t quote me on that as I have never really paid too much attention to the auto-boxes. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

riez

BMW has been moving away from (the reportedly beefier) Getrag to ZF. Will be interesting to see if the ZFs are as bulletproof as the Getrag over time.

1. The new E60 5 Series only uses ZF manuals. The 525i and 530i both use a ZF Type H. The 545i uses a ZF Type G. (See the detailed technical specifications in Roundel, July 2003.)

2. Fred Larimer's recent book, BMW Buyer's Guide (MBI Publishing, 2002) lists transmission type. Here are some:

E46 323i/Ci= Getrag Type B
E46 325i/touring/Ci= Getrag Type B
E46 325xi sedan/touring= ZF Type C
E46 328i/Ci= ZF Type C
E46 330i/Ci/Xi= ZF Type C

E39 525i/touring= ZF Type C
E39 528i/touring= ZF Type C
E39 530i= ZF Type C
E39 540i6= Getrag Type D
M5= Getrag Type D

850i/Ci/CSi= Getrag Type E

E36 318i/is/iC M42/M44= Getrag Type C
E36 318Ti M42 1.8= Getrag Type C
E36 318Ti M44 1.9= Getrag Type B
E36 323i/is/iC (1998)= ZF Type C
E36 323i/is iC (1999)= ZF Type B

E30 3 Series--All Getrag

E24 M6= Getrag 280/5

shipo

All ZF's in the E60? Hmmm, I cannot remember where I read it, but I could swear that I read that the new 6-Speed manual for the 6 cylinder mills was made by Getrag. Apparently based upon your post what I read was: "Bzzzzzzt! I'm sorry, that's incorrect!" ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

blueguydotcom

BMW's manual tranny's are not to my liking at all. I love my 330i but that 6 speed is a piece of garbage straight of a 1990s Chevy Camaro.

If only it had a TSX manual. That's heaven.

motenor1

what is the sheet called where you request from the dealer what can be program/de-program from your new vehicle before you drive it home (e.g. deactivating daylight running lamps, etc)? thanks.

memphis10

http://www.hedgpeth.com/mpegs/Making_of_an_E46.wmv

memphis10

I had the same problem when I first got my car. The shifting was jerky and I was frustrated because I had been driving manual trans cars all my life. BMW transmission is not very forgiving and rev matching is the key. I have been told that a light flywheel causes the revs to drop quickly and so if you dont shift quickly, it bogs down the engine. There is a lot of discussion about the 1-2 shift at bimmerfest. I have also experience the opposite when the rev doesn't drop fast enough at high rpms and the car jerks. Bottomline, it's a driver's car and it responds exactly the way you drive it. I don't think there is anything wrong with the manual transmission, just a little getting used to. BTW, I have never had the shifter stuck on any gear and it is not at all notchy. Maybe I have been lucky.

blueguydotcom

BMW transmission is not very forgiving and rev matching is the key. I have been told that a light flywheel causes the revs to drop quickly and so if you dont shift quickly, it bogs down the engine.

I have the opposite experience with all BMWs...the shift linkage is too slow. Fast shifts result in waiting for the bad tranny to catch up.

Bottomline, it's a driver's car and it responds exactly the way you drive it. I don't think there is anything wrong with the manual transmission, just a little getting used to.

Opposite side of the camp on that one too. The shifts aren't crisp, clean or quick. The shifters in the Miata and most high end Honda products obliterates BMW's sloppy trannies. I've never had a Miata or a Honda bind, refuse to release a gear or refuse to go into a gear.

BTW, I have never had the shifter stuck on any gear and it is not at all notchy. Maybe I have been lucky.

Guess so. Or I've been unlucky with every BMW tranny I've driven from friends' cars to test drive cars to my own vehicle. Fun engines, fun chassis dynamics, pitiful transmissions in my estimation.

BTW, rev matching has nothing to do with BMW's trannies not allowing the shifter into or out of a gear. It's just poor design that doesn't reward extremely fast heel-toeing. In fact it just can't be done with any BMW I've driven.

solomonmovva

Hi all,
I have been a very very happy driver of a 2001 330i - from the very first batch. Harman Kardan and power seats were options then. ( I got the HK, but kept the manual seats). I have been driving it through my 4th winter now, and never had problem so far (even with the performance tires).

However, there is one thing I have noticed especially when the winter's are colder (below 30F). The Service Engine soon light comes on in the dashboard panel and stays on. When the temp goes to upper 30s the light comes on when I start the car, but goes off, after a few minutes! I talked to the BMW service guy and he asked me to check if the gas cap is loose (which surprised me, and it wasn't).
Has anyone seen the same problem with the 330i's??
I am getting concerned now, since it's been this way a while now.

Thanks in advance
-Solomon Movva

jbailey6

I have a 2003 BMW 330 xi. I today received a letter from BMW that reads as follows: "BMW has determined that the climate control module in your vehicle has been programmed incorrectly, which may cause the battery to become discharged when the vehicle is parked for a few days. The battery discharge will result in you not being able to start your engine. As a result BMW would like to recode your vehicle to correct this fault."

   Has anyone else received this message and what do you guys think about the implications? I have not had any problems of the type described. Apparently, the repair involves downloading new software only and no part needs to be replaced. It is estimated that the repair will require about one hour. Thanks, Jim

blueguydotcom

Implication? I have to take my car in one weekend in the next few months...

As I leave my car in the garage 5 days a week, this could actually impact me. But it hasn't and thus I have a feeling it's not a big deal.

white6

The 04 330Ci that I just traded in had this problem. After sitting more than 3 days without driving, the battery would run down. Has something to do with the climate control module; if you adjust anything on the HVAC while the car is running, it will not shut off after you shut down the car. As a result, it pulls about 800ma, which will drain the battery in 3 to 5 days. Work around is to turn the key back on and then off after shuting down, thus creating an ignition cycle in which the HVAC wasn't adjusted. BTW, the recode fixed my problem after having to jump start the car twice (in the first 2,000 miles of it's life!). If your car was built March 2003 to July 2003, it definitely has this glitch.

peterisme

http://www.hedgpeth.com/mpegs/Making_of_an_E46.wmv
The video is about 20 minutes.

To my surprise:
1. BMW still has a lot of manual labor at assembly. (Especially in electronics parts, maybe this is the reason we got more bugs in Bimmer than in Toyota?) But the scene that worker polish the car manually is shocking (it seems they do care the cars they make.)
2. BMW still has a lot of WIP and part inventory. Compared with the Japanese JIT assembly line, they surely have higher cost.

Any comments?

peterisme

http://www.hedgpeth.com/mpegs/Making_of_an_E46.wmv
The video is about 20 minutes.

To my surprise:
1. BMW still has a lot of manual labor at assembly. (Especially in electronics parts, maybe this is the reason we got more bugs in Bimmer than in Toyota?) But the scene that worker polish the car manually is shocking (it seems they do care the cars they make.)
2. BMW still has a lot of WIP and part inventory. Compared with the Japanese JIT assembly line, they surely have higher cost.

Any comments?

jmcmusic

I spent about 3 hours evaluating the new for 2005 3-series. I did sign a confidentiality agreement however I can say that after all this evaluation, I decided I liked my 2001 330i better. The new front end is gorgeous but no better than the current (or at least from a few years ago). Also, the rear end is much less attractive. The only benefit to the interior is the pop-up navigation system like in the new X3. Otherwise, the interior is flatter all the way across like the new 5 series instead of the current cockpit style. You will definately not be disappointed with getting a 2004 model. I am considering trading my 2001 for a 2004 so I can get a new one before they are gone forever.

jmcmusic

I enjoyed watching this very interesting video. I think BMW workers take pride in the craftsmanship and details. I wonder if the American plant in South Carolina is similar. Would love to go for a tour some day. Thanks!

kyfdx

I have a 325i sport pkg with the stock 17 X 8 wheels. I've been looking for another set of 17" wheels before April, so I can just leave the winter tires on the stock wheels. The M68s are off a 330i sport. They are the staggered setup with 17 X 7.5 in the front and 17 X 8.5 in the rear.

Has anyone put these on a 325i? I know that they will fit, but I'm a little concerned about increased weight. The front ones take the same size as I now run front and rear (225/45-17), but the rears will now take 245/40-17. My car has steptronic, so it isn't overly fast, and I would hate to diminish off the line performance.

Also, has anyone noticed any handling difference with this set-up vs. 17 X 8 all around? Better or worse?

Thanks for any info,
kyfdx

twoof1

Can you say anything about the motors in the '05?
Like maybe...Valvetronic?

postoak

Has BMW ever officially announced the E90 for MY 2005? On another 3-series discussion board here someone just recently said it would be MY 2006. I find that hard to believe, as far along as BMW seems to be in development.

bentleyfam25

If you ever want an impressive tour, visit any auto assembly plant. Great for Cub/Boy scouts as well.

erickpl

Anybody know how to get both the xenon and halogens to light at the same time? That was pretty cool on the video.

-Paul

jmcmusic

i believe the engine choices will be identical to the current 3 series at least at first. i was in a 2005 325i so am assuming things will be the same (like with the new 5 series). i have heard rumors of a new 3.5 liter inline 6 to replace the current 3.0 in both the new 3-series and the 5-series sometime in the next few years.

gordonwd

What a great movie! This gives you a good idea of how complex it is to manufacture a modern automobile. I work around this stuff all the time, but forget how many people have never seen it. In fact, it's my company's robots and other equipment that you see in the paint shop, as well as the various bright yellow robots that are shown in other places, such as installing the windshield. So if I have an "issue" with the paint job when I get my 325, I know just who to see here to complain about it :-).

memphis10

Check this out.

http://www.losingstreak.net/files/black_ice_fun.wmv

cruz330ci

Somehow I feel vaguely insulted that the only driver who managed to hit the ambulance was in the 330ci....

brave1heart

Stagger is really for looks more than anything else. It increases understeer significantly and I know of a few serious autoXers and track junkies who replaced their 330's staggered setup with same size tires all around (usually 235/40/17). As far as weight, the M68 have a slight advantage over the Star 44s - they are ~ 3 lbs lighter (27 vs. 24 lbs), although I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference in street driving.

brave1heart

We've been here a few times already. The trannies vary from model to model. I can only say that I am VERY happy with the manual in my 325i, esp. when combined with the CAI's improved throttle response. The throws are a little long-ish but the feedback is awesome and to me, it's all about feel.

postoak

Well, it's never been, literally, a transmission issue, has it?

Most people who complain about shifting complain because the CLUTCH locks up so quickly there isn't time to modulate the speed with the accelerator as with other cars. This makes a smooth, quick, start from first tougher than other cars.

The other complaint is that when upshifting 2-3 or 3-4, the engine revs stay up too long for a smooth shift unless you do a "one thousand" count to allow the RPMS to drop (which means no quick shift).

Of course, I DO occasionally (but only very occasionally) have an actual transmission problem -- sometimes I can't shift into first when at a standstill. But most cars I've had would have this problem. (Can't remember, but perhaps all of them did.) No biggie, though.

Overall, I'm satisfied with the manual and (if I get another BMW), will get it with manual.

kyfdx

I actually have the style 96's, but I'm fairly certain they are similar in weight to the 44's. Lighter wheel weight is good, since the rear tires will be heavier (245/40 vs 225/45). I'm not too worried about more understeer, as I don't track the car, and while I might drive at 7/10ths occasionally, my wife is stuck at about 3/10ths or less!! My main concern was slower acceleration from a dead stop, due to increased wheel/tire weight, but it sounds like that won't be a problem.

One more question.. The wheels I am looking at have virtually brand new Bridgestone S-03 pole position tires on them. How do you think these are going to ride vs. the stock Turanzas that came on the car? From what I hear, they are the favorite tire for most 3-series enthusiasts, but what is my wife going to think??

Thanks,
kyfdx

postoak

I meant to say, in the above post, "when shifting 1-2 or 2-3" the engine revs stay up too long.

brave1heart

I don't have direct experience with either tire but I could tell there was less cushion between my butt and the road when I went from 45-profile tires to 40-profile in my car (I have 235/40/17 ES100s all around). The SO3s have even stiffer sidewalls, so I think they will be totally wasted at anything less than driving at 8/10s and will be somewhat uncomfortable with busier ride, esp. for someone who drives at 3/10s.

nyccarguy

Those S0-3s are great tires for kick-[non-permissible content removed] driving, but watch out when they hit the 50% treadwear mark. That's when they really start to get noisy.

nyccarguy

Well I'm not too much of a fan of Extended Maintenance contracts, but BMWNA actually offers a really nice one (not a 3rd party). For $1384 you get covered for 6 years or 100K miles (in addition to the 4 years/50K miles you get from BMW). We're picking up my Dad's X5 3.0iA tomorrow and got a call offering this to us today. He'll be leasing for 42 months and a total of about (probably a little more) 70K miles. So Inspection II at 60K will be covered (about $700) as well as a new set of brakes (pads & rotors) at about 65K miles (about 1K according to BMWNA) so we'll come out on top.

This covers just maintenance and is not an extended warranty.

They also rolled it into our lease payments.

The X5 will be my Dad's 1st BMW. We're so excited!

kyfdx

Thanks for the info.. If I get these wheels, the tires are already on them, so it is kind of a bonus. I think with the 245/40 vs. the 225/45, I'll have the same amount of sidewall height, as the two sizes have the same diameter. But, I guess the stiffer sidewall is the bigger problem.

If they get noisy, I'll just ditch them. The stock Turanzas still have one more year (9 months) of wear on them, so I can always put them back on. The BMW specialist at tirerack said I could run the 225/45-17 on all four wheels, even with the staggered widths. I guess the best of all possible worlds would be that my wife hates them so much, that she trades cars with me until they are worn out!! I can dream.

Thanks again!
kyfdx

kyfdx

Just my $.02.. But, that extended maintenance contract can be purchased anytime up until the car gets 50k miles on it. I know its handy to have it rolled into the lease payments, but if for some reason your father doesn't drive as much as he plans, or the car is totaled, or it gets new brakes at 49K, then doesn't need them again, it might be money wasted. The price is not bad, but it is much more valuable if you are keeping the car for 6 years or over 90K miles.. I'm not sure if I would pay for it, if I was leasing. I would at least wait to make that decision.

regards,
kyfdx

riez

kyfdx... Great comments. I concur.

Makes little sense, esp. for someone leasing, to sink a hefty amount like this up front at time of lease, and even less if you aren't going to own the car for 6 years or 100K.

For most leasees, the 4/50 free maintenance period should suffice. Just make darn sure to have the car looked over with a fine toothed comb in the 45-49.9K period. Betting the average person has brake work done well before 60K or 50K. (My wife's '00 323ia had her's done around 35K.)

I couldn't imagine leasing 42 months and 70,000 miles. Would love to see the details on this sort of odd deal. Guessin' the residual takes a pounding since the car is going to be out of warranty at time of lease return. Unless it is subsidized, doubt the real-world wholesale on that car in the future will even be 45%.

gordonwd

I was set to order my car next week anyway, but while at the dealer yesterday they had a rare in-stock manual 325i and the salesman offered me a test drive. It was especially nice since he just put a plate on it and handed me the key. On my last test at another dealer the salesman rode along, but I really don't like driving with someone in the other seat jawing at me. This time I could just take my time getting comfortable and all.

Switching from my manual A4, I of course had initial problems since the clutch was different, but after only a mile or so I was shifting as smoothly as I'd expect to. It really sold me on sticking with the manual. There is just more of a "connected" feeling between the throttle and the response of the car with a manual, and the extra second off the 0-60 time is nice in the 325 especially.

I should have just put my money down then and there, but I'll be back!

riez

gordonwd... Did this 325i manual have the Sport Pkg? Check out the 325i manual Sport comparison test report in the latest issue of C&D. A great combo if you keep the expensive options to a minimum!

nyccarguy

kyfdx:

I wasn't aware it was available up until the end of BMW's free maintenance period. Yes he probably could've waited.

He owns his own business (a plumbing supply house started by my Great Grandfather in 1900) and doesn't plan to move jobs or sell his house anytime soon. He knows that he drives 400 miles a week to and from work. He'll only be using his X5 to drive to and from work (with his 2 great danes). If my parents go out at night or on the weekend they'll take my Mom's A6 (which they can't wait to get rid of when the lease is up next March).

I called BMWNA and they advise that the brakes on the X5 usually have to be changed about every 30K miles. This is due to the fact of the softer material in BMW's brake pads (for greater stopping power) and the 4600lb weight of the X5. The guy I spoke to told me that a brake job (pads and rotors) on an X5 can be quite pricey and run upwards of $1000. We're going to have Inspection II covered (about $700). We're anticipating the X5 will need brakes twice in its 70,000 mile tenure with him.

reiz: My Dad leases for business purposes. He does put an above average amount of miles on a vehicle and travels with 2 great danes (short haired dogs who shed A LOT) so if he drives a vehicle for 5 years and 100K miles it is really worth nothing (so to speak) when he's done with it. Also the X5 is due to be redesigned in 2 years.

Here are the parameters of the lease(before the extended maintenance):

Capitalized Cost: $48,845 ($1,000 over invoice)
42 month lease
5.16% Interest (configure the mf from that)
51% residual (BMW quotes a 56% for 10 & 12K leases and 53% for a 15K lease on the X5 for 42 months)
20,000 miles per year
$0 Cap cost reduction
8.625% NYC sales tax rolled in

His payments come out to be about $835/ month.

It does make sense for him to do.

BTW he's had his SP equipped X5 for about 8 hours now and can't believe how well it handles for a car with 7.something inches of ground clearance.

bullethead

Strange tire wear pattern. My wife has a 2002 330ic Convert. that she uses as a fair weather driver - it has about 23k miles on it and is never driven hard (which means she doesn't let me have the keys too often) - While looking over the tire tread wear - I noticed that all of the tires expect the right rear have great tread left and normal wear patterns - the right side tire is almost a bare slick - what gives? These are the OEM tires - upgraded M series wheels and rubber - Any help for both the cause of the worn tire and what to do to address the issue, is most appreciated - thanks

gordonwd

The C&D test is what convinced me to stay with the manual. I had decided on an automatic, but really wasn't feeling comfortable about it since I've had manuals for the last 13 years and quite a few before then. After reading the test, I decided that I just couldn't bring myself to switch, and that's why the test drive was so much fun.

I am not going with the Sport Pkg, though, for a number of reasons. Just the 325i with Premium and Cold Weather packages will do it nicely!