BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

riez

gordonwd... Too bad about foregoing the Sport Pkg. Your driving pleasure loss. [Without the Sport Pkg, that 325i wouldn't have tested anywhere near where it did.]

riez

bullethead... I'm assuming you didn't rotate the tires (as per BMW's recommendations).

Interesting. Normally BMW's tend to wear the insides of tires, esp. rears.

Just having the right rear wear badly has me wondering about the following:

- Is the right rear the drive wheel? There is no LSD on any 330i and thus they use an open differential. If you disengage the TC and light the tires up even just a few times...
- Something with ABS or TC to this wheel. Maybe the brakes are locking up (i.e., skidding) on just this one wheel?
- Defective RR tire.

mkco

The SP was a late addition to my order on my 325ci. I am REALLY glad I got it! The car handles great and it isn't too hard riding, either. Plus the seats alone are worth the $$$.

gordonwd

The 325i that I drove did *not* have the Sport Pkg, and I'm not sure what the Sport Pkg has that I could have noticed on my test drive. I live in an urban area in Michigan where the roads are mostly flat and straight, with few places where extra handling is required except when dodging potholes. For the places and way that I drive, the sport suspension is overkill, and it comes with tires that wear out more quickly and that I would definitely have to replace with a set of snows in the winter.

Now if the package included an extra 10-15 HP or if I lived in a place with more interesting roads it might be a different decision...

shipo

"I live in an urban area in Michigan where the roads are mostly flat and straight, with few places where extra handling is required except when dodging potholes."

Hmmm, even though it has been 25 years since I lived in the Detroit Metro area, I seem to remember some thrilling rides down Orchard Lake Road north of Long Lake Road in Orchard Lake, MI. I wonder what that road is like these days. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

The right rear is the main drive wheel. Also, the rears always wear out faster than the fronts on BMWs. When I took off my wife's summer tires in December with 8300 miles on them, my tire guy mentioned that all the tires looked good, but that the right rear was wearing noticeably faster than the rest of them.

As fast as that one wears out, I am seriously considering putting the spare on the right rear when I take the winter tires off next month. Technically, I won't be rotating them, since the other three will stay at their normal position. I'll just be replacing the most worn tire.

regards,
kyfdx

riez

gordonwd... Like mkco said, the seats alone are worth it. My wife was furious when she found out about the 323i Sport Seats. Her former car didn't have the Sport Pkg. She wished she had gotten it. I was too in my '98 540i6. The original buyer foolishly wasted his money on the expensive "comfort seats". (But we bought ours CPO.)

Just compare the tire size between Sport and non-Sport. Lot less rubber in the latter for critical things like braking and handling. Don't know about you, but both are very important to me.

The Sport Pkg does NOT make the ride unpleasant. That is why it is so special. All gain and no pain!

tkunkel

Shipo - I drive Orchard Lake Road twice a day to and from work. It is now has a 25 MPH speed limit and tons of traffic. It is still curvy but no chance to enjoy the curves with all the traffic. I also remember taking Pontiac Trail( joins Orchard Lake road just north of Long Lake) all the way from Ann Arbor to Pontiac back in the late 70's/early 80's....That was a nice drive also.

Tom

shipo

Wow! Bummer about how bad the traffic is out in that area. :-/ If you would like a nice area to stretch the legs of your BMWs, y'all should take a trip over here to New Hampshire. My local main road has all of the curves of the old Pontiac Trail with the added pleasure of hills thrown into the mix. In fact, some of the curves reverse direction right at the crest of a hill, making driving interesting and a little nervous until you get to know the road. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

ksoman

several words rhyme with bangle

mangle, fangle, dangle, strangle...

riez

ksoman... Keep an historical perspective.

BMW enthusiasts hated the then new 3 Series when compared to their beloved 1600-2002.

BMW built Isetta bubblecars in the 1950s and early 1960s. Not to mention the rear engined 700. This from a company that was also building Baroque Angels, 507s, and the Bertone-styled coupes!

All things, including Bangle, come to pass. Will be interesting to see what people say in 20-30 years. Only time will tell.

gordonwd

OK, you've just about talked me into it. But then when I went to BMWUSA to reconfigure & price my car, I noticed that they have a specific warning about low-profile tires being more likely to cause "wheel, tire and suspension damage". This is one reason why I've stayed away from the big wheel packages, especially given the sad state of our local roads.

What I would *really* like to have is the Sport Pkg that comes on the 325xi, which gets 17x7 wheels with 205/50 all-seasons (same as std on the 330i) instead of the 17x8's with 225/45 summer tires.

kyfdx

Order the sport package, and I'll bet your dealer will swap you straight up for the stock 330i set-up. The only drawback to that, is the ugly 20-spoke wheels that come on the 330i.

I know it is subjective, but the 3-series looks twice as good with the 17" wheels. You can always see how it goes... Picking up the stock 17" wheels off a 330i should be pretty cheap, if it turns out you have to do it.. Those guys are always upgrading. The downside is you have to buy winter tires for the sport set-up.

Hmmm... how bout this idea? Get the sport package, and instead of buying steel wheels or crappy aftermarket 16" alloys, find a set of the BMW 17 X 7 alloys for the winter tires. There are lots of options in the 205/50-17 size for winter tires, and they are still narrow enough to give good snow traction. Then if you have problems with the sport wheels/tires, you can switch to summer tires on your 17 X 7 wheels.

Okay, back to work...ha
kyfdx

shipo

If I'm not mistaken, the suspension on the current non/SP 325i is virtually the same as the one that came on my 1999 non/SP 328i. If you use the "Go To Msg#" feature at the top or bottom of this page, and enter 11850, that will take you to the beginning of the "Car swap" thread where Brave1Heart and I swapped cars for a day and a half, his 325i SP for my 328i PP. Within that thread you will find two first hand reviews of the differences between the two suspensions which might help make your decision a little easier.

Best Regards,
Shipo

aldubya

to Shipo and tkunkel
Memories: Lived in Orchard Lake from 1970 to '85. Since have lived in Bloomfield Township (close by). Message from tkunkel correct. Orchard Lake Rd is to be avoided if possible. Very heavy traffic. Tremendous increase in growth in past 30+ years. The "S" curves are still there around Orchard Lake and Pine Lake but speed is quite restricted. "Wilkins Corners" at Orchard Lake Rd & Pontiac Trail was a great hamburger joint to be enjoyed years ago. Long gone. I, too, used to drive Pontiac Trail from Orchard Lake Road to Ann Arbor. No longer. Take Orchard Lk Rd to I-696 to I-275 to M14 west. No fun. Heavy traffic. But, gets me there couple of times a week. Teach at U of M's School of Dentistry.

gordonwd

That was an interesting discussion, thanks for the link, but I noticed that you yourself said "Given the quality of the roads here in the NYC area, I am still glad that I did not get the SP". This is the same boat that I am in, so I have some thinking to do...

riez

gordonwd... Test drive for yourself. If you love to drive, the only way to go is Sport Pkg. Don't get it and I bet you'll wish you did. Get it and you'll be able to live with it.

shipo

Yup, I said it; however, the proof is in the pudding as they say. Not three months after I wrote that, I ordered my new 530i with SP and I'm VERY glad I did. Go figure.

Relative to the roads, it seems that a couple of things have conspired to make the BMW SP with its lower profile tires easier to live with. 1) Compared to the "Sport Packages" that I had on my cars for the ten years prior to getting my 1999 328i, the tires summer tires now available seem to be designed to run at higher pressure, giving a little extra buffer for the rim when you hit something. 2) Rims seem to be getting stronger, or at least BMW rims seem to be stronger than the ones I had in the past. Stronger rims hopefully equates to less bent rims. 3) Suspension travel. BMW has always been known for their long suspension travel, I remember reading something like that as far back as the 1600 and the 2002. The longer the suspension can travel before the limit is reached, the greater the obstruction that can be hit before any damage is incurred. 4) One implication of living in Michigan is that you will need a separate set of winter wheels and tires. That gives you the opportunity to buy a set with 16" rims and use them during the months that have the greatest probability of hitting a pot hole. I did just that for my 530i, and I have hit some whoppers and sustained no damage.

As a side note, one of the favorite pass times of the trolls that used to frequent Edmunds was that they bait BMW drivers by saying that they had taken a Civic (or some such inexpensive vehicle), screw down the suspension, mount enormous wheels with rubber bands mounted around them. Then they would laugh at us by saying that they had a car that would out handle a BMW at a fraction of the cost. Funny thing though, they never talked about how many rims they bent while doing something as mundane as crossing a long bridge with expansion joints. ;-)

I say all of this to suggest that you might still want to consider the SP (assuming you test drive a car with it and decide that you like what it has to offer), and not to let the potential of a bent rim deter you.

I hope this helps. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

memphis10

Also the bigger wheels (Sports Pkg) gives the car a much better look.

BTW, I saw a brand spanking new 2004 330CI convertible this evening. The LED tail lights are cool and the turn indicator is much brighter. I had to let him pass by my 325i so that I could have a closer look. It's hard to find a better looking car. But who knows what the Bangleized version is going to look like.

imadrone

Interesting discussion. We did ED with our 2004 325iT (steel blue/gray, 5-spd, SP, H-K, PS) and spent 3 fine weeks in 8 countries. But the REAL pleasure has been driving the familiar roads back home here in far northern California. Just got back from a 500+ mile road trip from Redding to the coast via remote and incredibly twisty Highway 36, up route 101 through our beloved redwoods to the Oregon border, then back home on beautifully challenging Highway 299. With 3 adults and a dog, plenty of room for us and our luggage in the sport wagon. Turned over 6k trouble-free miles on the way, and could not be happier with the performance, precision, and sheer pleasure of the manual/sport package combination. 26 MPG with spirited driving, and the feeling of safety and control in even the tightest hairpins makes the price of admission well worth the effort. The 325 is a work of functional artistry, and at a bargain price vs. the ubiquitous new SUVs so common here.

Richard

xiane

I had a 1992 325 (and loved it) and would like to get another BMW. I am looking to get a certified car, as miles on a BMW don't worry me much. Here's a question, I've seen a pretty nice deal on a 2001 330i but I have heard a lot about overly assisted steering on the 01s. Is there a way to adjust the steering so it more of the BMW norm?

sunilb

there is a retrofit that the dealer can do for you (should be no charge) and this should make it pretty close to the '00s and '02s

kominsky

I have an '01 330Ci and got the steering retro done. The weight and feel were greatly improved but I still don't think it was as good as the '00 that I test drove prior to ordering my car. It's probably pretty safe to say that none of them would be quite up to the standards of the E36's.

gordonwd

I'm probably going to order my car tomorrow (Thurs). I'm not sure if BMW's "Build you own" is totally accurate on pricing, but here's what I am seeing. The Premium Pkg is $3100 and the Sport Pkg is $1400. But the PP includes power seats and so does the SP. The web site shows $4500 for both together -- do they really do this?

Actually, the main reason I was going to get the PP was for the power seats and moonroof. So if I get the SP I'm thinking of just getting the moonroof and computer as separate options for $1350. I don't care about the auto-dim mirror or BMW Assist (and I also would not have that antenna "wart" on the rear of the roof). As far as I can tell, I would only be lacking the wood trim. The wood looks nice, but for a $1700 saving I can do without it.

Am I missing anything else about the PP?

ksoman

i actually don't dislike the new shapes much. minus the tail, i still like the new looks. but then generally i'm receptive to changes. i dont know why i wrote the rhyme post, i was doing a write up on something (work) and it just kinda went *blip* in my head and i just had to write it here... but i do agree completely with you, how things come to pass. hindsight is almost always 20/20.
ksso

shipo

Okay, if you choose the SP instead of the PP, you will get Power Seats, however, you will NOT get the "3-driver memory for exterior mirror and seat positions". The only other item that you might miss (I wouldn't) is the "Automatic tilt-down of passenger's side-view mirror when vehicle is shifted into reverse gear".

It sounds to me like a nice $1,700 savings as well, that is if you can live without the seat memory, which by the way is something that I cannot live without. I valet park a lot and I think that parking attendants are genetically programmed to screw up any seating position their butt touches. ;-) Even then, if you really want the seat memory, you can opt for the "Power Front Seats w/Driver Memory" for $995 and still save yourself $700.

Best Regards,
Shipo

memphis10

If you are getting the 325 you won't get the power seats with the SP option. You wil get the 12 way sport seats but they are manual. Power seats are standard only with the 330. PP inludes the power seats with memory, OBC, mirror tilt, wood trim, auto dim, rain sensing wipers.

shipo

I was just on the BMW web site a couple of hours ago and I could have sworn that under the Sport Package it said "12-way power adjustable front sport seats", however, a quick check reveals that it really says, "12-way adjustable front sport seats."

Good Call. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

P.S.

Gordon, I guess that means that your savings is only $700 if you want the power seats.

sgn94

I'm thinking about buying a new 2004 330i (sedan). Just curious about feedback on exterior colors. What are the "good" colors? Thanks!

blueguydotcom

The good colors are the ones you like. You'll hear a chorus of opinions in here but why would you care what others think about your car? Get the color that works for you. There isn't a color made by BMW that won't sell when you want to part ways with the car.

gordonwd

Good call on my missing the power seats. In the brochure it lists this in detail and under the SP there are two entries for seats, one showing the manual 12-way as standard and the other with the 8-way power that requires the PP option. I missed the option bit. I've got to have the power seats, because with an 8-way or 12-way seat how could I ever get it back to my favorite settings if someone else moved it?

So with only a $700 difference I might as well go all the way with the SP + PP. I've also got to keep in mind that I'm planning on "retiring" from motorcycling in the near future, so this will be my primary "sport touring" vehicle and I might as well get what I really want. Besides, I'm saving $17K or so by not getting another BMW cycle :-).

riez

Get the Sport Seats. They are wonderful!

But try to test drive one with Sport Pkg to see if it is right for you!!!

kyfdx

I think you are on the right track.. get the sport and premium packages. The premium package is obscenely expensive for what you get, but it will help resale, and doing it ala carte, as you have found, isn't much better.

kyfdx

Entirely subjective, but you asked..

I think any of the grays are the best.. steel gray, silver gray, or whatever they are calling it this year. After that, steel blue or titanium silver. I think you'll find that these have the best resale also.

If you like black, the metallic sapphire black looks great.

Colors I would avoid: Orient blue, Mystic blue, Topaz blue, Jet Black, gray-green

Red and white look good in non-metallic colors, might hurt you on resale.

Okay, now I'll get out of the way, and let everyone else tell you I'm wrong.

Oh.. I like the gray leather interior best... Black is good... Hate the sand..

regards,
kyfdx

white6

with Natural brown leather is very attractive... what I had on my 330Ci prior to trade-in. But it would probably hurt you on resale, since it's an unusual color combo. Keep in mind that the metallic colors cost you almost $500 extra. And non-metallics are easier to match if you have an accident and have to have something repaired. Jet black is best in this regard. Good luck!

erickpl

You can see the nat brown interior on my Webshots:

http://community.webshots.com/user/skimblz_

I have the Oxford Green Metallic on my 325xi. I personally love the green/nat brown interior. Have not seen 1 other BMW with that combination around here in soCal.

With the tinted windows, the interior isn't too bright in the sun. To me the grey was too bright (granted that was in a car with no tint) and the black too darn hot in the summer. The sand looks more like a yellow to me, so the nat brown was ideal. Plus that was the color my wife wanted.

-Paul

memphis10

Black looks the best but it's high on maintenance. I am lazy, so I got silver. The dust doesn't show at all. And silver with black leather or 'ette with wood trim looks nice. But there are silver BMWs all over the place.

gordonwd

Well, the order is in. I made some late decisions based on the fact that this will be my daily driver for the next 5-7 years or more, and I'll be retired (yea!) before the end of that span. So here it is:

-- 2004 325i, Steel Blue/Sand Leatherette
-- Premium Package
-- Cold Weather Package
-- Sport Seats

What I didn't know going in is that the dealers can now order some options individually, but only on sold ("option 1") cars. The seats are $550 and will be power since that's covered by the PP.

The experience with the dealer was very satisfying (Erhard BMW, Bloomfield Hills, MI) and I have my production number. Should be built in the 2nd or 3rd week of March. So now the waiting begins...

vkwheels

Nice choice! Hang in there during the wait. I feel you will be a satisfied future owner--best wishes to that end.

sgn94

Thanks, kyfdx. I really appreciate your input! My reason for putting this "what's your opinion?" out there is because I currently own a 2001 330i in titanium with gray leather and I love it. I'm thinking about buying an '04 330i and I don't want to get another titanium. None of the other colors appeal to me as much as the titanium -- but I must admist that the silver gray comes in a close second.

Does anyone know if you can get an in-dash CD player with the in-dash navigation system?

topspin628

OK, at the risk of getting bashed for even mentioning a slush box as an option (this is an enthusiasts site I understand), I am going to ask a few questions and for some input. I currently own a 330i with step, PP totally loaded and love it. My lease is up end of the summer and I'm already eyeing the next vehicle.

I'm thinking of another 330i or perhaps the ZHP or cic. On Bimmerfest there seem to be a lot of problems with stalling with the ZHP, though.

Since I haven't had a manual since a long, long time ago I have some questions. Since BMW is considered at or near the top in engines, suspension, brakes, steering etc. Why is it that some people seem mixed on the manual trans? One would think that of all companies, BMW must sell a larger % of sticks than most others. If they are not at the top of this game than who is? Strangely to me anyway, people seem to love the Honda sticks even though I don' think the cars are even in the same league in most areas. Also, I see that the ZHP comes with a short throw. Why don't all BMW with sport suspension at least come with a short throw stick? Is there a trade off with something else in order to gain a short throw?

SMG seems like a really interesting alternative for us city drivers but it seems quite rare and I can't find enough reviews from owners to see how they like it.

memphis10

I think the BMW manual transmission issue has been blown out of proportion. IMO, BMW manual transmission is as good as any other car out there. But I have to admit that it does not obliterate the competition like it does in other areas. Secondly, it is easier to drive a Honda manual compared to than a BMW manual because even if you are little off on your revs while shifting you don't feel it as much (Slow to rev up, slow to rev down, smaller engine, gearing less aggresive gearing). With a BMW manual, you get instant feedback and it takes some practice to shift smoothly without jerking or bogging the engine down. For extremely fast shifting, there is a delay in the revs dropping which aggravates a lot of drivers. I feel that most of these issues are there with other performance cars and BMW is no exception. yeah, would like them to make the short throw shifter standard. I haven't had any problems with my transmission and it is smooth and precise while some people have found it to be notchy. I haven't driven the SMG but I love very bit of my 5 speed.

blueguydotcom

I'm thinking of another 330i or perhaps the ZHP or cic. On Bimmerfest there seem to be a lot of problems with stalling with the ZHP, though.

I've had a ZHP for almost a year...no stalling. Just anecdotal but there ya go.

Strangely to me anyway, people seem to love the Honda sticks even though I don' think the cars are even in the same league in most areas.

The stats bear out that the TL offers more standard features, on par and some would say better handling and the engines are just as economical and powerful. I won't even get into how Honda trannies are lightyears beyond Bimmer.

Also, I see that the ZHP comes with a short throw. Why don't all BMW with sport suspension at least come with a short throw stick? Is there a trade off with something else in order to gain a short throw?

If it's a short throw it's barely noticeable. My bro-in-law has a 5 speed and I have a ZHP. both our trannies are, imho, garbage. The X3 6 speed I had for a weekend also had a lousy tranny. The difference between the short and long is mostly psychological. Plus because bimmer trannies can't handle quick, crisp shifts, the short throw only means that I get to run into a slow, binding tranny mess faster than normal.

SMG seems like a really interesting alternative for us city drivers but it seems quite rare and I can't find enough reviews from owners to see how they like it.

No smg for the ZHP...bummer. I only dislike one thing immensely on my car and that's a transmission that's not up to the rest of the car's performance. Not real pleased with BMW's silly single disc Harmon Crapdon stereo either but I can live without music.

gordonwd

Having finally ordered my 325i, I just wanted to thank all the participants of this forum for their comments and suggestions. This is by far the most reasonable and useful discussion group that I've found on the web. Too many other groups seem to specialize in flaming or only want to talk about "modding" their cars, etc. In engineer speak, this forum has a very high signal-to-noise ratio as far as I am concerned!

white6

Sounds like a great color combo that you won't see coming and going every day. Didn't know that the sport seats where an individual option; great compromise for your needs.
I agree that black is very high-maintenance, but since my bimmer is a fair-weather car, it's a great opportunity to have my cake and eat it too! As of this morning, my 325i is "in transit" on the Carmen, somewhere between Bremerhaven and Great Britain. Ship is scheduled to dock in Charleston, S.C. on March 9. Which means I've got another month to "anticipate."

325irav4

Have to defend Orient Blue: 2 colors for the price of one (blue in sunlight, black at night). Downside: needs washed as much a black. If you're lazy silver is good.

blueguydotcom

silver is great for the lazy or for those who want a wash to hold. san diego is one giant dustbowl and my gray, green and blue cars through the years would appear dirty within a day of washing. I get my bmw washed once a month now (about 8 days on the road between washes but 4 weeks in a garage). Love it.

jasond

Like others in this forum, my 2003 BMW 330 xi has a transmission that will not engage when I put it in drive each morning. I was beginning to learn to live with it since the delay in engagement was about 2-3 seconds. My car was recalled to have the climate control module recoded since it could drain the battery by not turning off. I took this opportunity to leave the vehicle overnight at the dealership for them to see whether they could confirm the transmission slip. They confirmed the problem and have ordered a new transmission for me. I am concerned about having a major job of this type performed on a new vehicle. Should I learn to live with the transmission slip instead of having the transmission replaced? If I do have the transmission replaced how will this likely affect the performance and value of the car in the future? The BMW dealership is relatively small and has performed about 3-4 transmission replacements on these vehicles. One assumes that the car is manufactured in Germany by much more experienced technicians. I'd appreciate opinions about this matter. Thanks, Jason

jmess

I think slipping transmissions rarely heal themselves so you are going to have to have it replaced at some point. Tranny replacements are pretty straight forward in general as long as you don't have to pull an engine which shouldn't be the case. I would think that an experienced mechanic would be able to handle the swap without any problems

The performance of the car should be better in that the tranny won't be slipping. I don't see how there could be any impact on the value of the car with a new tranny.

Relax, the 330 should survive the operation without any complication and be back to speaking perfect German when it regains consciousness. :-)

jasond

Hey jmess, thanks for your comment. You have made me feel better. It's really disappointing to have had two recalls on a new car like this. I hope you are right. I suppose it is the car equivalent of major surgery. Jason