Mazda MPV

maltb

Dealers should be installing them into the MPVs for free. If your dealer wishes to charge you, call Mazda(800-222-5500) and have them contact the dealer.

otish

Well we used our A/C here today in Kansas and it was pretty warm this afternoon (85 or so). My A/C blows some cold air so that I always redirect off of me or it really bothers me (but my husband loves it). I would have the dealership look at it just to be sure - it should feel very comfortable pretty quickly. We had ours all last summer and it got over 100 for about 20 days in August and still managed to cool the van. (By the way, our other vehicle is black with black leather so I know what you mean about it being heat-seeking!). My red MPV is just hot, hot, hot in looks (couldn't resist).

Also, as far as the seatbelts loosening up that usually means that there is some slack in there somewhere that is undetected when first installed (I had this happen with one seat I was trying in there, I think the Roundabout). You might want to get it checked at an inspection with someone who really knows their stuff and is certified. Are you using the locking feature in the seatbelts (it sounds like you are from your post)? I have checked my seat periodically and it is still not moving at all. Hope you get it figured out.

badgermomma

One thing I have found that really helps is to recline the captains chair a click or 2 and then install the seat as verticle as possible and then return the captains chair to as verticle as possible. I gives the carseat a little better chance of getting all the way back and getting a better angle on the seatbelt receiver and also removes any left over slack in the shoulder harness when you put the seat back up. I also use a seat sever on the leather and that seems to help a bunch.

I just turned my Fisher Price forward and it is rock solid.

Jane

alexv1n

I'm just curious. If you change tire size (e.g. from 15" to 16") how odometer knows that you now have larger tires (because the wheel will rotate "slower" for the same distance run). Never thought of it before. Now do... there must be some setting somewhere. Or am I missing something?

maltb

is what matters. Usually, the larger wheels use a lower profile tire so that the circumference doesn't change. If it is different, the gearing for the speedo cable/sensor can be changed based on calculations of the new size. Tire Rack has more info:
www.tirerack.com

tboner1965

You can go with a bigger wheel, say from 15" to 16", but then go with a lower
profile tire.

For example, on my Buick LeSabre, I went from a P205-75R14 to a P225-55R16 and have
essentially the same circumference tire.

What do the numbers mean?

Example: P225-55R16

P= Passenger
225 = width of tire in millimeters
55 = aspect ratio, essentially how tall is the sidewall relative to the tire width. So in my
example, the sidewall is 55% of 225mm or about 124mm
R = Radial
16 = size of rim in inches.

So the 55 aspect ratio has a shorter (and generally stiffer) sidewall than the 75 aspect ratio.
Usually, a 55 tire is more responsive than a 75, it will also ride a bit rougher.

Probably TMI right now, but I'm trying to put myself to sleep here, so I had to chime in.

Cheers, from the Contour Enthusiasts Group Spring Zing (well intoxicated right now!)

TB

alexv1n

Here is a review of MPV I found accidently: http://www.automotive-review.com/mpv.htm

Now can you tell that this guy has any sense? What is this supposed to mean: "Well made and nice driving starting as low as $24,655 ($19,995 US) this is good value but at $33,080 ($25,550 US) for an ES model the MPV is way out of its league."

Interesting, if Mr. Micheal ever cared to compare the van with competition feature by feature? I wonder if you can get anything similarly equipped for the same money?

alexv1n

My van has 16" Dunlops (came with the Sport Package), I know that it comes with 15" Yoko tires standard. And when the two vans are parked together you can clearly see the two tires are essentially different in external radius (and hence in circumference). Is it just my eyes or that's the fact?

msgjvh

I suggest we write to the editor who also wrote the story. Maybe if we begin a campaign of bringing out the owners viewpoints these atrocities will stop! Here is his mail:

editor@automotive-review.com

edagcur

We have narrowed purchase our choice of a new vehicle down to the LX versions of each. Have the usual pros and cons but it basically boils down to preferring the Odyssey but baulking at the price differential

Up here in Canada we are luckily able to obtain
Odysseys at quite a bit below MSRP but the MPV remains considerably cheaper. The overall amount depends on what purchase option we go for

Any comments on what would be a reasonable differential between the two, in $US

stevecanuck

Take a look at the rest of this ezine http://www.automotive-review.com . Quality shows, and this site doesn't have it.

I wouldn't get worked up about this review.

billmckinley

Hard to estimate what a reasonable price differential would be for you. No doubt you've done your homework and know what the price difference between the two cars, equipped to suit your needs, is. Reasonable or not, that's what the cars are being dealt for. How much difference is enough to justify the purchase of one over the other? If you prefer the Ody enough, you'll have to live with what it is going to cost you. If you can't, you'll end up opting for your second [and IMO, better] choice. If you absolutely, positively, have to have the larger van, you'll pay the difference If you can get by without the extra room, you'll end up with the van whose price is more amenable.
Problems with some Ody's aside, they're both competent vans, one larger, more expensive, and more powerful, the other smaller, cheaper, but more nimble [and again IMO, more fun].

Either way, good luck on your decision.

RJ

msgjvh

Our review was based on a four-day comparison test with the Sienna, Odyssey,Windstar and Grand Caravan. Thought the article was not presented as a comparison the vans were driven back to back. automotive-review.com aims at assessing the fundamentals of the vehicle design without much regards for amenities as they do not increase the intrinsic good of any vehicle. I
stand by my assertions that if you are looking for a van of this size the Sienna is more refined, more powerful, more comfortable and based on the pricing available at the time, cheaper.

Despite this and the fact that this was a very short review and one of our oldest I did say:

"But the MPV does offer several important and innovative features that the Toyota does not. "
"The motor is smooth and does remain quiet when not pressed. " "Well made and nice driving starting as low as $24,655 ($19,995 US) this is good value but at $33,080 ($25,550 US) for an ES model the MPV is way out of its league. "

Not exactly indictments of the vehicle and the pricing is based on that provided to us by the manufacturer and I was just informing the reader that the 4x8 doesn't fit - it won't fit in the Sienna or Windstar either (well not easily anyway).

The Odyssey is a much larger vehicle with comfort for six grown adults in all seating possitions and it is more expensive. I mentioned it to justapose the size of the two vehicles and their intended rolls.

We can hardly comment on reliability and especially not based on opinions expressed by a handful of owners on the Internet.

Every vehilce has Lemon Law buybacks.

I'm very glad you and others are pleased with their purchases. Mazdas seldom get the credit they are due but my opinion remains there are more capable vans for the money but it is important for readers to drive all the vehicles and form their own opinions as well. I hope you enjoy the rest of the site.

Best Regards,

Michael La Fave

waltb2

Another dad on the little league team is manager of a body shop and suggested the following on touch up paint:

1 - Put the bottle in the sun all day (or somehow)to warm it up and make it thin. This distributes something in the paint evenly and makes it work better. Of course shake well and vigorously.

2 - Take a sharp pair of scissors and cut the brush bristles at a sharp angle. This makes a sharp point to dab and fill a small hole than slopping way too much on. Also lends precision for touching up the 2 pencil lead sized chips on my hood.

3 - Put a tiny bit on and let it sit for 24 hours. He said that most people glob on way too much then end up with an unsightly bump/pimple than the small divot before.

4 - After 24 hours decide if you want more. He said you could sand lightly if there is a bump and buff out the area. Sounds like more than I'm willing to chance personally.

As for the AC, I came out of an 89 Volvo wagon in Atlanta humidity with bad AC so this is living large. I did notice on one of our first really hot Texas days that putting it on recirculate brought it down a good notch.

The tinted windows must do something because my 9 year old is constantly telling me to turn the rear air off.

stevecanuck

I love this

A four day review of five mini-vans, dealing with the fundamentals, not the amenities. Put the boots on now, boys and girls, it's getting deep.

I put more time in on testing the Sienna, Ody and the MPV. Then again, my results were more important to me, I was spending my money.

msgjvh

Well,

You can imagine my "immediate" responses upon reading the answer. Fortunately, typing is a bit theraputic and it allows you to erase somethings you may actually blurted out initially. I did bring up the four day timeframe, how comparing the ES against the fundamentals is not a valid test, and how our beloved Edmunds represents more than just a "handful" of internet owners. I provided the link at least twice. I have invited Mr La Fave to visit a real website with "active" participants. I hope we see them. It could be some spirited postings!

blondemom1

Hey, you think you could post your whole letter to him? It sounds like you made some good, valid points, and I'd like to read the whole thing, if you can.

When we were looking at vans, we drove almost all of them, or at least one of a family. For instance, I drove the Venture for about an hour (alone), so I didn't feel the need to drive the Montana. I drove the Sienna twice, once for about 2 hours, the T&C for only about a half hour, the Windstar for about 15 minutes (if I wanted a truck I'd buy a truck), and the MPV 3 times, the third time for a whole afternoon of running around. So I agree with Steve, that I spent more time in these vans than the "reviewer" did. I also drove the Astro, Villager (my friend's), and sorry to say, no Odyssey since none were available.

I had an extensive check list with me during all my van hunting, listing all the pros and cons, my wants and needs, cargo and personal space, and my general thoughts on each van. I finally narrowed it down to 2; the Sienna and the MPV. Honestly, I liked them both about the same since each had benefits over the other. But in the end, I couldn't give up the second row windows, the tumble seat, the stereo system, and the $3500 savings.

msgjvh

Dear Mr La Fave,

  While looking through the daily post on the Edmunds website of the MPV post #1559 of:

http://townhall-talk2.edmunds.com/ WebX?7@190.AFXEaP5vcUW^5@.ee93e5c/1603

http://townhall-talk2.edmunds.com/ WebX?14@190.AFXEaP5vcUW^5@.eea42cb

I was referred to your review of the 2000 Mazda MPV. In your review you talk about the Mazda being more expensive than a Toyota Sienna. During my comparasions, I found the Mazda to be consistently less expensive than the Sienna. Especially, the ES model when fully equipped with all the bells and whistles.

 You also stated that the road noise was loud. If you look closely the MPV rated close to the

coveted Odessey regarding road noise. Your review of the interior space seams to go against your peers. Most of the editors have remarked about how the MPV makes excellent use of the

interior. I don't know about you but most families do not planon putting a 4 x 8 piece of plywood in a $25k automobile. This reference is ridiculous to apply to a Mini-van that is meant to transport people. It not a work truck and wasn't designed for that. You kind of favorably mention the roll down windows, while totally ignoring the slide-by-side captains chairs. The latter being one of the main reasons I chose this van.

  Your final statement "but at $33,080 ($25,550 US) for an ES model the MPV is way out of its league." is totally untrue! When compared side by side to the Ody, the Sienna, or the Caravan, the MPV provides more options for the buck. The Ody doesn't even come with Leather or a sunroof! The price variance is between $3k and $6K. This van is an excellent deal for the the price.

  I invite you to come visit the MPV owners on the Edmunds site. Read through the problems topics of all the other vans and compare the problems talked about in each. You will notice that the MPV owners are all happy owners and wouldn't change a thing. You will also find owners of the ODY, that are beginning Lemon law suits and experiencing buyers remorse. Take a further look into the MSN site you will find the customer satisfaction rating for the MPV is significantly higher than the ODY.

 I don't think this van is getting it's proper billing throughout the magazine pages. That's unfortunate because while you are leading new buyers to the Ody, the Sienna and the Caravans, you are by-passing a vehicle that many of your readers would love to have.

  It's positive points include, excellent handling, the best on the curves of all the pack, an

outstanding sound system that rocks the house, Intelligent interior design with flexible seating at the push of a finger. The ability to get into a parking space without having to go back and forth. Visibility is superior throughout the cabin. Great styling that is appeasing to the eye.

 We love our MPV, and I am tired of reading uninformed reviews. Please take a second look if

you will but this time dig a little deeper.

 Thank you for your time.

msgjvh

My biggest problem with your review is the bottom line where you say that the ES is out of its league. The ES is a fully equipped model with all the amenties that do not add to its intrinsic good. A comparably equiped Sienna would cost you thousands more.

I hardly think that a site with tens of thousands of post reflect "a handful of internet owners". In most surveys the polling is done on less than a few hundred. I would rather base my purchasing decisions on the opinions of the everyday owners than those that are doing a four day review. I researched that site and many others for almost a year before making the dive.

I hope you reconsider updating your review on the MPV when the 3.0 is available. Maybe then the MPV will be recognized as a competitive model.
>
> Sincerely,

msgjvh

I like the Edmunds site a great deal and I'm glad there is such a venue for owners to interact.

It is the nature of our business to base our reviews on road tests (usualy a week) and draw from a body of knowledge accumulated from driving HUNDREDS of vehicles a year.

The MPV is by no means a bad choice but what is so pursuasive about it. We will certainly drive any new versions.

Regards,

Michael La Fave

msgjvh

Blondemom,

There you go, I hope you can deciever the sequence.

Mr LaFave,

My apologies for posting private emails. However, since these are my peeps they have a need to know. As you can tell they are very inquisitive owners at the very least.

I would like to thank Mr La Fave for responding. There many times when these types of emails get ignored. Maybe we can understand why! LOL. I do feel if we react to the reviews maybe our voices will be heard. I believe MPV'ers hate being sheep, that is what makes us unique.

Good afternoon everyone, I have to go teach the mutt how to use his new doggie door.

billmckinley

But I do.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't disagree with your anger. Your cause is righteous. I too thought Mr LaFave's review was unfair and condescending--where it wasn't flat out wrong. I felt my blood beginning to simmer as I read it. What's with this guy, I thought. Is he a total jerk? Is he in the pay of Honda or Toyota? Or is he just one of that fraternity of power-mad reviewers who thinks everything has to outVette a Vette to be worth their approval?

Then I thought, "Aw, nuts to it--and him." [Note: not my actual words] WHO CARES? Are people going to read his review and come and take my van away from me? ["Out of my cold, dead hands," they will] Are they going to stop and point and laugh at me as I drive by, shouting "Nyahnyah na nyahnyah, you bought a Mazda!"? Well, if they do, I 'll cry. All the way to the bank, as the saying goes. Wondering why anybody would pay more for less.

And what bad thing is going to happen as a result of reviews like this? Well, I'll continue not to see myself coming and going at every stoplight when I take it out. And I'll continue to count it a minor triumph when I DO see another one, and a major triumph when the other driver waves back at me and smiles knowingly. And when I write the monthly car payment check, I'll still smile [No I won't. I'll grin, broadly. I might even have to suppress an evil chortle]. And I'll still get a kick in the pants every time I get behind the wheel of the most fun car I've driven since I gave up on MG's thirty years ago.

So what am I disagreeing with? Your futile efforts to educate the ineducable. Forget it. These people WILL not be taught. They have their agenda, and nothing you say or I say or any other actual owner [you know, the handful of us] has to say is ever going to change it. You've got a lot better chance of success with the mutt and the dog door than with them.

So to quote myself, "Nuts to it--and him." And his ilk. And the horses they all rode in on.

Still in all, it might be a winless battle, but thanks for making the fight well fought.

RJ

msgjvh

One of my major faults is jumping in and searching for the truth without regard. Your right, the dog already knows how to come in and out of the house! It only took me three hours to install it (thru the wall installation), and an hour to teach the mutt. I think in review time, that may equate to four days. At least I accomplished somethings this weekend, like installing a dishwasher, doing the doggie door, weeding and trimming the yard. Add to that posting to the board! Whew, time to go DL some songs from napster and make another CD for the MPV.

blondemom1

... it gave us all something to complain about in here. Hey, maybe we should post it over in the problems board! Then we'll have a real problem to talk about! LOL

Thanks for posting the e-mails. Kudos to him for at least responding to you, let alone in such a short time. It almost seems that he had his mind made up on our van before he drove it. Do you think he may read his peers reports?

javadoc

If you're not busy next weekend, I need all my yarding (thatching, raking, weeding) done! I'll let you get on napster at my house and use the T-1! :-)

Good work w/ the doggie door, those are fun!

--java

msgjvh

Sorry Java,

We have approximately 250 soldiers to run thru a weapons qualification and NBC environment (No not the Network) within 48 hours. My weekend will begin on Friday morning and not end until Sunday afternoon. We'll be sleeping in tents far away from the MPV and this board. How am I ever going to live without them!

Now if your offer includes four plane tickets to Alaska, room and lodging, I could feel a cold coming on!

Blondemom,

I think at this point it's too late to read those reports. Unless, he wants to check out the reviews for the 3.0.

michaellafave1

Hello all,

I must say that I am impressed at the response this admitedly short review has generated.

We review vehicles over the course of a week and in this case the MPV had to stack up to its peers; namely the Grand Caravan, Sienna, Odyssey, Quest, Windstar and Pontiac Transport (Now Montana). We do not hold vehicles to standards that are unimportant to their class - "out vette the vette" was it?

In the review I never said the MPV was a bad vehicle and in fact there were several generous compliments, just that it was an "also ran" and "out of its leaugue" in several respects. The MPVs engine is neither as powerful nor as smooth as the Sienna's - fact. I found it comparatively noisy - my opinion. Both vans are small but the refinement and build quality of the Toyota won my favour. My point is that our reviews are based on a combination of fact and opinion and in this case the MPV did little to engratiate itself TO US relative to its peers.

The pricing we use is provided by the manufacturers. At the time and equipped the way they were the MPV was more expensive than the Sienna with similar equipment.

It's nice that there are so many loyal owners out there that disagree - that's what Mazda needs. I do this for a living and I drive lots of cars, vans and trucks. I use this basis of knowledge to form an opinion and then express it but there are obviously individual factors that make individuals chose one car over another - good! Otherwise we would all be driving the exact same thing and that would be even more boring than a minivan - just kidding.

Enjoy your vans,

Michael La Fave
Editor in Chief
www.automotive-review.com

maltb

Did you get a chance to sit inside either one?

maltb

Hey all!

If you have kids ages 4-8, Mazda dealers are giving away vouchers for free booster seats.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010430/lam050b.html

They aren't exactly top of the line, but better than nothing and you can use the voucher at Toy's R Us for a $23 discount on an upgrade.

stever

Thanks for the link. Here's a news story on booster seats: Ford Motor Co. plans to give away 500,000 seats

Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

tboner1965

Just got back from the Contour Spring Zing in Kalamazoo, MI. I watched all sorts of cars run, actually about 120 autocrossed yesterday, including yours truely for the very first time.

I found that the most powerful cars were not the fastest on the track. In fact, with a few exceptions the V8 Mustangs and Camaros were out run by Hondas, VW's and some amazing Mazda Miata. While the twin-turbo'ed 5.0 Mustang was all over the course. In fact I got beat by 5 seconds by an older Contour. (Ok, he was experienced and had some serious mods, my SVT was stock, more powerful, but was hampered by driver and tires.) So while a Mustang is great for 1/4 mile runs, that same car may do poorly relatively speaking on the track. In fact, the Contour that ran a 38 second run was only beat by 1 second by a Mustang Cobra R (amazing limited production race ready car that costs 3x the base Contour BTW.)

I would like to see a review that put minivans through both daily paces such as parking in the garage, parallel parking, and a city and highway driving loop. Plus, all of the other performance measurments such as acceleration and slalom time.

Unfortunately, even to do this, you are still at the mercy of the view of the reviewers. If someone weights straight line acceleration over cornering, then the "Mustang" will come out higher than the "Miata" in most cases.

I guess this is why consumers must actually test drive the vehicle. The reviews in question, like any review, is the opinion of the reviewers. Each of us here tested the same choices, and came to a different conclusion.

It's not that the reviewer got it wrong, it's just the reviewer did not represent our set of values.

I do think it is wrong to totally dismiss the information in the problems forums here. But, on the other hand, I understand that it would be hard to cite such information in a journalistic endevour.

Enough rambling. I think the exhaust fumes and sun yesterday, not to mention the just completed 420 mile drive from MI in 6 hours (stops included) has me a bit punchy

TB

billmckinley

Thanks for your reply to our concerns about your review. I'm not sure you made any converts--least of all me. I've driven the car enough to be frankly mystified by your comments about it being "out of its league" and an "also-ran." While I can see where a week-long test might lead you to that conclusion, I think a longer test, one where both driver and the car were broken in, might persuade a driver otherwise. It did me. While I initially wondered about its power and refinement, a few weeks' driving of it persuaded me that it was as competent as any car I had ever driven--ranging over forty years from sports cars to SUVs to other vans.

Perhaps under the pressures of both economics and deadlines, a short test is all that's practicable for your publication. But such a test is inherently unfair. It looks at superficialities only. It offers little more than a snapshot of the car. And a snapshot doesn't do this car justice.

I'm not sure it does any car justice. Over the years an awful lot of dogs have gotten the blessing of reviewers based on initial impressions. Cases in point: read the raves for the Tribute/Escape. Then go check out the number of recalls they've had. Then go check out the owners' boards here at Edmunds. Not that either car is necessarily a dog, but how many reviewers in their snapshot reviews foresaw all--or even any of--the problems these twins have had teething? Long-range tests might have uncovered some of the problems, just as a long-range test might have uncovered some of the obviously hidden charms of the MPV.

Finally, thanks for being upfront about the nature of a review: opinion based on experience. I'm not sure that every reviewer would be so free to admit the part that informed opinion necessarily plays in any review. I would just have hoped that the information was based on a longer test than you were able to give it.

javadoc

...Anyone know of any "Long Term" MPVs in any magazines' hands? I thought Edmunds was going to do one, but that may just have been a rumor. I read a review from one rag (C/D?) that had an MPV for a weekend, and they ended up being generally impressed by the little MPV gem. I believe the writer (and spouse) had a blast tearing up and down the countryside buying furniture at auction, and they marvelled at how much "junk" could be swallowed by the rig. Ahhhh, anyways...

If anyone knows of a magazine that is (planning to) reviewing the MPV as a long term ride, that'd be the review I would actually care about. No offense to Mr. La Fave and his org's fine efforts in the media, but I give little attention to reviews since (IMNSHO) they are not accurate for the would-be buyer...except "long termer" stories, since owning a car is not a "one night stand," so to speak...and I'm prolly just a bit too outspoken to not have made my opinion of car-mag folk painfully clear in the past, so I'll stop before I'm flamed.

Of course, I love reading about the new M5 or Porsche GT2, just like the next gearhead!

--javadoc

p.s. Semi-useless trivia: 52% of all minivan owners do not have children living at home.

windowphobe6

Automobile magazine has been running a Four Seasons test on an MPV; typically, they run quarter-page updates ever so often, and then conclude with the full-fledged report. As of the March issue (I haven't received May's yet), they had rolled up 30903 miles, and had scored 19.3 mpg overall. "Without significant underhood troubles or glaring ergonomic deficiencies to draw our attention," says their scribe, "little glitches become major logbook scandals." The glitch du jour is a bad spring in the fuel-filler door.

msgjvh

I am sure that the fault lies in the fact that the MPG is not better. If the mileage was higher they wouldn't of had to open the door so often. I am coming up on 30k. I better have the spring checked soon before I have to call for roadside service. Hmm, they may enjoy the phone call it has to be pretty boring over there don't ya think? You know, I think I will save that one for the wifey.

cutter44

Kudos to michaellafave1 for responding and for explaining his (and the mags) review process. Those were his and his peers' experiences and the postings on these forums are ours. One doesn't necessarily preclude the other. Frankly, as a Mac user, I've become accustomed to enjoying the benefits of a product not endeared to the masses.

That said, when we first looked at the MPV, the dealer brought one around and gave us the keys for a test drive. When we came back (we made it clear we were in the early stages of looking at vehicles), he handed us a photocopy of a review from a local newspaper. Of course, it was quite favorable and I've searched the paper's archives for the review but I can't find it. One of my favorite lines in the review and one which really made me feel good was: "...Say what you will about the quality of Toyota and Honda, they are very good. But Mazda builds the best cars in the business, period"..."You can beat a Mazda up, but you'll have a hard time killing one. (I've tried)."

If anyone's really interested in the complete review (although we already know it's a great vehicle), I'll scan it and find a way to post it somewhere.

otish

Autoweek is also currently testing the MPV in a long term test. I have read at least 3 or them and I believe they just did the 4th quarter one. I have posted a couple of excerpts from them because they have been very complementary about the MPV. They have had no problems to speak of and say that many people are asking for the keys who normally wouldn't want to drive a mini-van. They also happen to be testing one just like mine: red ES, very pretty. I need to try and find the Autoweek with the latest review - they are always laying around the house wherever my husband drops them.

alexv1n

I think I know how it should be stated about MPV's engine power. It should be: "The 2.5 V6 Duratec motor in MPV isn't as powerful as on competitor vans but provides enough acceleration and gets you where you want" (as compared to "the motor is way too weak for a vehicle of this size"). Let's all remember that only a couple years ago most minivans had less powerful engines as MPV does (as it has already been stated here before) and everybody was just fine with it. Probably you shouldn't get right in front of a speeding truck when going onto a speedway but you should just know the abilities of your vehicle and you will be fine. I guess you can get from City A to City B in the same time (if not less) than Ody, Sienna, Caravan or Windstar (as I said before, it can go way beyond 200 km/h fully loaded) so just don't try to race on 1 km stretches and expect to come first and you will be fine.

What is it about safely merge into traffic? Does it mean you need to get right in front of a huge truck from a standstill? In this case I guess 3.0L 210 hp motor isn't enough as well. I think that 4.5L V8 would be more appropriate for Honda or Toyota and they are way underpowered (and then when everybody gets V8, we will start looking at V10?).

What I'm trying to tell here, you can safely ride a bicycle so you can a motor vehicle. You just need to judge surrounding environment better.

I think that's enought on the topic :-) You get what I mean...

As to the price of similarly equipped Toyota Sienna and MPV. You should keep in mind, that Mr La Fave has tested Canadian vehicles and the MPV's value is even greater with the equipment that is standard on Canadian models.

Sienna's closest model is LE. In fact, Sienna LE + LE Value package is almost perfect match to MPV LX + Sport package.

Here is what I get from Toyota and Mazda web sites:

Feature	Sienna LE	MPV LX
MSRP (w/o Options)	$31,900	$28,895
Middle Captain's Seats	O (Value)	S
Audio (4 spk, CD+FM)	S	S
High Grade Audio (6 CD changer, 8/9 spk)	O (Part of XLE Value 2 worth $8,040)	O (Sport)
Leather wrapped steering wheel	O (Value)	O (Sport)
Illuminated Vanity Mirrors	S	-
2nd row seat tables	-	S
2nd row seat foldable armrests	?	S (4)
Alloy wheels	O (Value) - 15"	O (Sport) - 16"
Automatic Headlamp Cancel	S	-
Front and Rear Splashguards	S	O ($100)
Power Rear Door windows	-	S
Power Flip-Out Side Rear Windows	S	-
Power Driver Seat	O (Value)	-
Heavy duty radiator	?	S
Transmission cooler	?	S
Packages:	$1,090	$1,800
Total price:	$32,990	$30,695

I clearly don't see Sienna being cheaper. Also, keep in mind that Sienna is selling close to MSRP while MPV can be gotten for Invoice (I got mine, LX + sport + fog lamps + cargor mat + cargo net + block heater + rear step plate for $29,000 while MSRP was about $33,000). So, where's the truth, michaellafave1?

stever

I don't have a bone in this fight, but I did drive a Voyager for 10 years with a 2.5 (?) 4 banger in it, including one 13k roadtrip hauling 2 canoes, 2 bikes, camping gear, and a cedar chest (don't ask ), and I could still pass every VW bus going up a grade. The motorheads who write reviews can't seem to get their heads out of their little 0 to 60 world, imho.

But I think you guys are protesting too much; if word gets out any more, you'll be waiting in line to buy a MPV, won't be able to test drive it, the dealers will demand MSRP etc. Best to keep the secret to yourselves :-)

Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

javadoc

Woops, wrong forum....but I've noticed, at 15,888 miles, that the fuel filler door doesn't like to open on MochaVan, no seriously, it doesn't. I have to try the switch about three times before it pops the door. Of course, Mrs. Javadoc hasn't noticed this...why?...because she's only put petrol in the van twice. I guess the guys down at Continental will fix that when we go on vacation next week, in addition to "da lean." :-)

Hi Steve! Glad we've evoked a response from the gallery

--javadoc

msgjvh

I stopped by the dealer today to discuss Da Lean. They did find the TSB and showed me how to properly measure for it. Apparently, you have to have the fuel tank filled. All items such as jack, jack handle and tool bag in place. All the fluid levels must be at the proper level. Then if you measure a differance of more then 10mm, you have Da lean. Mine measure about 1/8th of an inch without the tank being full. I have converted that yet but I think I have Da lean! So on the next fill up I will get a new metric ruler and go out and check it.

javadoc

1/8 inch converts to 3.175mm...1 Yankee inch equals 25.4 (or so) mm, so 10mm would be 25/64th (0.3937 inches, roughly), or very close to 3/8 inch. Having driven thru Canada a few times, I learned to speak they're lingo, eh. ;-)

--java

cmuniz

I had problems openning the fuel door recently and a little WD40 did the trick. I think it's one of those things we will have to do once a year or so to keep it lubricated. Remember, it also has a switch to prevent the side door from openning when you're fueling the vehicle. Those springs need to be lubricated from time to time.

rallychamp

You can read Autoweek's third quarter update on the MPV online. http://www.autoweek.com

Just look under the "Recent Stuff" section onthe main page.

dbs2001

Thanks for the link, rallychamp. I believe it is a reasonably fair review. I suspect the last comment re being underpowered with a full load is probably related to power entering a freeway. I, too, would like more power in that area; however, I have learned to adjust to it. Once on the freeway (or any other road) there is plenty of power. I also figured the MPV would not hold its value as well as some other vehicles, but we plan to drive it into the ground. Therefore, that was of no concern.

Dennis

evaddave

We also had a sticky fuel door. We took it back to the dealer, where they lubed the cable. The problem didn't go away immediately, but now the door works just fine.

-Dave

edagcur

That was some deal you got Alex. So what did the dealer get out of it you bought it at invoice? Just the holdback?

I'm currently looking to buy a 2001 LX in the Toronto area. I see you live in Ottawa - is that where your dealer is

whisper1

I was told by my dealer Mazda offers no holdback! Maybe just a dealer game, I don't believe it.

02 are coming, dealers need to make space!
They want your service. They will get none or little if MPV is as reliable as my wife's 93 protege.

ksaer

I am interested in purchasing the MPV ES (great features and styling) and have been quite impressed with the favorable reviews from all the MPV owners on this board. I am concerned about the small engine and its durability over the long haul. I test drove one the other day and the power seemed adequate but not great. It is hard to tell in a five minute test drive. Mazda USA customer service indicates that the 2002 MPG will have a larger 3.0L engine (similar to that used in the Tribute). Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it would be better to wait for the 2002 MPV with the larger engine or does the current engine adequately power the vehicle?

seguy

IMO I would wait to test drive the 2002's. Borrowed one with the 2.5L v-6 and found that it needed a little more power. (high altitude affects hp) Test drove with AC on, with about 550 lbs on board to get a feel if we could use it on our longer trips COMFARTABLY. Great van otherwise, would have probably bought it, but manager mentioned the 3.0 for 2002. Will wait to test drive and see if it's worth the extra $$$, since I'm sure 2001's will have alot of incentive tacked on when 2002's arrive. 2000's had $3500 incentive + 0% financing x 48 months in my area(colorado springs) or $4500 without special financing. can't beat 0% financing for only $1000 diff. Had to bite my tongue on that one. Hope 3.0 was worth the wait, if not, incentives should increase on the 2001's as the end of the year nears (currently @ $1500 in my area). If we were still in relatively flat Ohio, I'm sure the 2.5L would be fine, but too many steep grades on the interstate and especially on base(USAF academy) Van constantly downshifted to 3rd on interstate, and 2nd around base. something our 4 cyl. accord doesn't even do.