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Also, as far as the seatbelts loosening up that usually means that there is some slack in there somewhere that is undetected when first installed (I had this happen with one seat I was trying in there, I think the Roundabout). You might want to get it checked at an inspection with someone who really knows their stuff and is certified. Are you using the locking feature in the seatbelts (it sounds like you are from your post)? I have checked my seat periodically and it is still not moving at all. Hope you get it figured out.
I just turned my Fisher Price forward and it is rock solid.
Jane
www.tirerack.com
profile tire.
For example, on my Buick LeSabre, I went from a P205-75R14 to a P225-55R16 and have
essentially the same circumference tire.
What do the numbers mean?
Example: P225-55R16
P= Passenger
225 = width of tire in millimeters
55 = aspect ratio, essentially how tall is the sidewall relative to the tire width. So in my
example, the sidewall is 55% of 225mm or about 124mm
R = Radial
16 = size of rim in inches.
So the 55 aspect ratio has a shorter (and generally stiffer) sidewall than the 75 aspect ratio.
Usually, a 55 tire is more responsive than a 75, it will also ride a bit rougher.
Probably TMI right now, but I'm trying to put myself to sleep here, so I had to chime in.
Cheers, from the Contour Enthusiasts Group Spring Zing (well intoxicated right now!)
TB
Now can you tell that this guy has any sense? What is this supposed to mean: "Well made and nice driving starting as low as $24,655 ($19,995 US) this is good value but at $33,080 ($25,550 US) for an ES model the MPV is way out of its league."
Interesting, if Mr. Micheal ever cared to compare the van with competition feature by feature? I wonder if you can get anything similarly equipped for the same money?
editor@automotive-review.com
Up here in Canada we are luckily able to obtain
Odysseys at quite a bit below MSRP but the MPV remains considerably cheaper. The overall amount depends on what purchase option we go for
Any comments on what would be a reasonable differential between the two, in $US
I wouldn't get worked up about this review.
Problems with some Ody's aside, they're both competent vans, one larger, more expensive, and more powerful, the other smaller, cheaper, but more nimble [and again IMO, more fun].
Either way, good luck on your decision.
RJ
stand by my assertions that if you are looking for a van of this size the Sienna is more refined, more powerful, more comfortable and based on the pricing available at the time, cheaper.
Despite this and the fact that this was a very short review and one of our oldest I did say:
"But the MPV does offer several important and innovative features that the Toyota does not. "
"The motor is smooth and does remain quiet when not pressed. " "Well made and nice driving starting as low as $24,655 ($19,995 US) this is good value but at $33,080 ($25,550 US) for an ES model the MPV is way out of its league. "
Not exactly indictments of the vehicle and the pricing is based on that provided to us by the manufacturer and I was just informing the reader that the 4x8 doesn't fit - it won't fit in the Sienna or Windstar either (well not easily anyway).
The Odyssey is a much larger vehicle with comfort for six grown adults in all seating possitions and it is more expensive. I mentioned it to justapose the size of the two vehicles and their intended rolls.
We can hardly comment on reliability and especially not based on opinions expressed by a handful of owners on the Internet.
Every vehilce has Lemon Law buybacks.
I'm very glad you and others are pleased with their purchases. Mazdas seldom get the credit they are due but my opinion remains there are more capable vans for the money but it is important for readers to drive all the vehicles and form their own opinions as well. I hope you enjoy the rest of the site.
Best Regards,
Michael La Fave
1 - Put the bottle in the sun all day (or somehow)to warm it up and make it thin. This distributes something in the paint evenly and makes it work better. Of course shake well and vigorously.
2 - Take a sharp pair of scissors and cut the brush bristles at a sharp angle. This makes a sharp point to dab and fill a small hole than slopping way too much on. Also lends precision for touching up the 2 pencil lead sized chips on my hood.
3 - Put a tiny bit on and let it sit for 24 hours. He said that most people glob on way too much then end up with an unsightly bump/pimple than the small divot before.
4 - After 24 hours decide if you want more. He said you could sand lightly if there is a bump and buff out the area. Sounds like more than I'm willing to chance personally.
As for the AC, I came out of an 89 Volvo wagon in Atlanta humidity with bad AC so this is living large. I did notice on one of our first really hot Texas days that putting it on recirculate brought it down a good notch.
The tinted windows must do something because my 9 year old is constantly telling me to turn the rear air off.
A four day review of five mini-vans, dealing with the fundamentals, not the amenities. Put the boots on now, boys and girls, it's getting deep.
I put more time in on testing the Sienna, Ody and the MPV. Then again, my results were more important to me, I was spending my money.
You can imagine my "immediate" responses upon reading the answer. Fortunately, typing is a bit theraputic and it allows you to erase somethings you may actually blurted out initially. I did bring up the four day timeframe, how comparing the ES against the fundamentals is not a valid test, and how our beloved Edmunds represents more than just a "handful" of internet owners. I provided the link at least twice. I have invited Mr La Fave to visit a real website with "active" participants. I hope we see them. It could be some spirited postings!
When we were looking at vans, we drove almost all of them, or at least one of a family. For instance, I drove the Venture for about an hour (alone), so I didn't feel the need to drive the Montana. I drove the Sienna twice, once for about 2 hours, the T&C for only about a half hour, the Windstar for about 15 minutes (if I wanted a truck I'd buy a truck), and the MPV 3 times, the third time for a whole afternoon of running around. So I agree with Steve, that I spent more time in these vans than the "reviewer" did. I also drove the Astro, Villager (my friend's), and sorry to say, no Odyssey since none were available.
I had an extensive check list with me during all my van hunting, listing all the pros and cons, my wants and needs, cargo and personal space, and my general thoughts on each van. I finally narrowed it down to 2; the Sienna and the MPV. Honestly, I liked them both about the same since each had benefits over the other. But in the end, I couldn't give up the second row windows, the tumble seat, the stereo system, and the $3500 savings.
While looking through the daily post on the Edmunds website of the MPV post #1559 of:
http://townhall-talk2.edmunds.com/ WebX?7@190.AFXEaP5vcUW^5@.ee93e5c/1603
http://townhall-talk2.edmunds.com/ WebX?14@190.AFXEaP5vcUW^5@.eea42cb
I was referred to your review of the 2000 Mazda MPV. In your review you talk about the Mazda being more expensive than a Toyota Sienna. During my comparasions, I found the Mazda to be consistently less expensive than the Sienna. Especially, the ES model when fully equipped with all the bells and whistles.
You also stated that the road noise was loud. If you look closely the MPV rated close to the
coveted Odessey regarding road noise. Your review of the interior space seams to go against your peers. Most of the editors have remarked about how the MPV makes excellent use of the
interior. I don't know about you but most families do not planon putting a 4 x 8 piece of plywood in a $25k automobile. This reference is ridiculous to apply to a Mini-van that is meant to transport people. It not a work truck and wasn't designed for that. You kind of favorably mention the roll down windows, while totally ignoring the slide-by-side captains chairs. The latter being one of the main reasons I chose this van.
Your final statement "but at $33,080 ($25,550 US) for an ES model the MPV is way out of its league." is totally untrue! When compared side by side to the Ody, the Sienna, or the Caravan, the MPV provides more options for the buck. The Ody doesn't even come with Leather or a sunroof! The price variance is between $3k and $6K. This van is an excellent deal for the the price.
I invite you to come visit the MPV owners on the Edmunds site. Read through the problems topics of all the other vans and compare the problems talked about in each. You will notice that the MPV owners are all happy owners and wouldn't change a thing. You will also find owners of the ODY, that are beginning Lemon law suits and experiencing buyers remorse. Take a further look into the MSN site you will find the customer satisfaction rating for the MPV is significantly higher than the ODY.
I don't think this van is getting it's proper billing throughout the magazine pages. That's unfortunate because while you are leading new buyers to the Ody, the Sienna and the Caravans, you are by-passing a vehicle that many of your readers would love to have.
It's positive points include, excellent handling, the best on the curves of all the pack, an
outstanding sound system that rocks the house, Intelligent interior design with flexible seating at the push of a finger. The ability to get into a parking space without having to go back and forth. Visibility is superior throughout the cabin. Great styling that is appeasing to the eye.
We love our MPV, and I am tired of reading uninformed reviews. Please take a second look if
you will but this time dig a little deeper.
Thank you for your time.
I hardly think that a site with tens of thousands of post reflect "a handful of internet owners". In most surveys the polling is done on less than a few hundred. I would rather base my purchasing decisions on the opinions of the everyday owners than those that are doing a four day review. I researched that site and many others for almost a year before making the dive.
I hope you reconsider updating your review on the MPV when the 3.0 is available. Maybe then the MPV will be recognized as a competitive model.
>
> Sincerely,
It is the nature of our business to base our reviews on road tests (usualy a week) and draw from a body of knowledge accumulated from driving HUNDREDS of vehicles a year.
The MPV is by no means a bad choice but what is so pursuasive about it. We will certainly drive any new versions.
Regards,
Michael La Fave
There you go, I hope you can deciever the sequence.
Mr LaFave,
My apologies for posting private emails. However, since these are my peeps they have a need to know. As you can tell they are very inquisitive owners at the very least.
I would like to thank Mr La Fave for responding. There many times when these types of emails get ignored. Maybe we can understand why! LOL. I do feel if we react to the reviews maybe our voices will be heard. I believe MPV'ers hate being sheep, that is what makes us unique.
Good afternoon everyone, I have to go teach the mutt how to use his new doggie door.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't disagree with your anger. Your cause is righteous. I too thought Mr LaFave's review was unfair and condescending--where it wasn't flat out wrong. I felt my blood beginning to simmer as I read it. What's with this guy, I thought. Is he a total jerk? Is he in the pay of Honda or Toyota? Or is he just one of that fraternity of power-mad reviewers who thinks everything has to outVette a Vette to be worth their approval?
Then I thought, "Aw, nuts to it--and him." [Note: not my actual words] WHO CARES? Are people going to read his review and come and take my van away from me? ["Out of my cold, dead hands," they will] Are they going to stop and point and laugh at me as I drive by, shouting "Nyahnyah na nyahnyah, you bought a Mazda!"? Well, if they do, I 'll cry. All the way to the bank, as the saying goes. Wondering why anybody would pay more for less.
And what bad thing is going to happen as a result of reviews like this? Well, I'll continue not to see myself coming and going at every stoplight when I take it out. And I'll continue to count it a minor triumph when I DO see another one, and a major triumph when the other driver waves back at me and smiles knowingly. And when I write the monthly car payment check, I'll still smile [No I won't. I'll grin, broadly. I might even have to suppress an evil chortle]. And I'll still get a kick in the pants every time I get behind the wheel of the most fun car I've driven since I gave up on MG's thirty years ago.
So what am I disagreeing with? Your futile efforts to educate the ineducable. Forget it. These people WILL not be taught. They have their agenda, and nothing you say or I say or any other actual owner [you know, the handful of us] has to say is ever going to change it. You've got a lot better chance of success with the mutt and the dog door than with them.
So to quote myself, "Nuts to it--and him." And his ilk. And the horses they all rode in on.
Still in all, it might be a winless battle, but thanks for making the fight well fought.
RJ
Thanks for posting the e-mails. Kudos to him for at least responding to you, let alone in such a short time. It almost seems that he had his mind made up on our van before he drove it. Do you think he may read his peers reports?
Good work w/ the doggie door, those are fun!
--java
We have approximately 250 soldiers to run thru a weapons qualification and NBC environment (No not the Network) within 48 hours. My weekend will begin on Friday morning and not end until Sunday afternoon. We'll be sleeping in tents far away from the MPV and this board. How am I ever going to live without them!
Now if your offer includes four plane tickets to Alaska, room and lodging, I could feel a cold coming on!
Blondemom,
I think at this point it's too late to read those reports. Unless, he wants to check out the reviews for the 3.0.
I must say that I am impressed at the response this admitedly short review has generated.
We review vehicles over the course of a week and in this case the MPV had to stack up to its peers; namely the Grand Caravan, Sienna, Odyssey, Quest, Windstar and Pontiac Transport (Now Montana). We do not hold vehicles to standards that are unimportant to their class - "out vette the vette" was it?
In the review I never said the MPV was a bad vehicle and in fact there were several generous compliments, just that it was an "also ran" and "out of its leaugue" in several respects. The MPVs engine is neither as powerful nor as smooth as the Sienna's - fact. I found it comparatively noisy - my opinion. Both vans are small but the refinement and build quality of the Toyota won my favour. My point is that our reviews are based on a combination of fact and opinion and in this case the MPV did little to engratiate itself TO US relative to its peers.
The pricing we use is provided by the manufacturers. At the time and equipped the way they were the MPV was more expensive than the Sienna with similar equipment.
It's nice that there are so many loyal owners out there that disagree - that's what Mazda needs. I do this for a living and I drive lots of cars, vans and trucks. I use this basis of knowledge to form an opinion and then express it but there are obviously individual factors that make individuals chose one car over another - good! Otherwise we would all be driving the exact same thing and that would be even more boring than a minivan - just kidding.
Enjoy your vans,
Michael La Fave
Editor in Chief
www.automotive-review.com
If you have kids ages 4-8, Mazda dealers are giving away vouchers for free booster seats.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010430/lam050b.html
They aren't exactly top of the line, but better than nothing and you can use the voucher at Toy's R Us for a $23 discount on an upgrade.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I found that the most powerful cars were not the fastest on the track. In fact, with a few exceptions the V8 Mustangs and Camaros were out run by Hondas, VW's and some amazing Mazda Miata. While the twin-turbo'ed 5.0 Mustang was all over the course. In fact I got beat by 5 seconds by an older Contour. (Ok, he was experienced and had some serious mods, my SVT was stock, more powerful, but was hampered by driver and tires.) So while a Mustang is great for 1/4 mile runs, that same car may do poorly relatively speaking on the track. In fact, the Contour that ran a 38 second run was only beat by 1 second by a Mustang Cobra R (amazing limited production race ready car that costs 3x the base Contour BTW.)
I would like to see a review that put minivans through both daily paces such as parking in the garage, parallel parking, and a city and highway driving loop. Plus, all of the other performance measurments such as acceleration and slalom time.
Unfortunately, even to do this, you are still at the mercy of the view of the reviewers. If someone weights straight line acceleration over cornering, then the "Mustang" will come out higher than the "Miata" in most cases.
I guess this is why consumers must actually test drive the vehicle. The reviews in question, like any review, is the opinion of the reviewers. Each of us here tested the same choices, and came to a different conclusion.
It's not that the reviewer got it wrong, it's just the reviewer did not represent our set of values.
I do think it is wrong to totally dismiss the information in the problems forums here. But, on the other hand, I understand that it would be hard to cite such information in a journalistic endevour.
Enough rambling. I think the exhaust fumes and sun yesterday, not to mention the just completed 420 mile drive from MI in 6 hours (stops included) has me a bit punchy
TB
Perhaps under the pressures of both economics and deadlines, a short test is all that's practicable for your publication. But such a test is inherently unfair. It looks at superficialities only. It offers little more than a snapshot of the car. And a snapshot doesn't do this car justice.
I'm not sure it does any car justice. Over the years an awful lot of dogs have gotten the blessing of reviewers based on initial impressions. Cases in point: read the raves for the Tribute/Escape. Then go check out the number of recalls they've had. Then go check out the owners' boards here at Edmunds. Not that either car is necessarily a dog, but how many reviewers in their snapshot reviews foresaw all--or even any of--the problems these twins have had teething? Long-range tests might have uncovered some of the problems, just as a long-range test might have uncovered some of the obviously hidden charms of the MPV.
Finally, thanks for being upfront about the nature of a review: opinion based on experience. I'm not sure that every reviewer would be so free to admit the part that informed opinion necessarily plays in any review. I would just have hoped that the information was based on a longer test than you were able to give it.
...Anyone know of any "Long Term" MPVs in any magazines' hands? I thought Edmunds was going to do one, but that may just have been a rumor. I read a review from one rag (C/D?) that had an MPV for a weekend, and they ended up being generally impressed by the little MPV gem. I believe the writer (and spouse) had a blast tearing up and down the countryside buying furniture at auction, and they marvelled at how much "junk" could be swallowed by the rig. Ahhhh, anyways...
If anyone knows of a magazine that is (planning to) reviewing the MPV as a long term ride, that'd be the review I would actually care about. No offense to Mr. La Fave and his org's fine efforts in the media, but I give little attention to reviews since (IMNSHO) they are not accurate for the would-be buyer...except "long termer" stories, since owning a car is not a "one night stand," so to speak...and I'm prolly just a bit too outspoken to not have made my opinion of car-mag folk painfully clear in the past, so I'll stop before I'm flamed.
Of course, I love reading about the new M5 or Porsche GT2, just like the next gearhead!
--javadoc
p.s. Semi-useless trivia: 52% of all minivan owners do not have children living at home.
That said, when we first looked at the MPV, the dealer brought one around and gave us the keys for a test drive. When we came back (we made it clear we were in the early stages of looking at vehicles), he handed us a photocopy of a review from a local newspaper. Of course, it was quite favorable and I've searched the paper's archives for the review but I can't find it. One of my favorite lines in the review and one which really made me feel good was: "...Say what you will about the quality of Toyota and Honda, they are very good. But Mazda builds the best cars in the business, period"..."You can beat a Mazda up, but you'll have a hard time killing one. (I've tried)."
If anyone's really interested in the complete review (although we already know it's a great vehicle), I'll scan it and find a way to post it somewhere.
What is it about safely merge into traffic? Does it mean you need to get right in front of a huge truck from a standstill? In this case I guess 3.0L 210 hp motor isn't enough as well. I think that 4.5L V8 would be more appropriate for Honda or Toyota and they are way underpowered (and then when everybody gets V8, we will start looking at V10?).
What I'm trying to tell here, you can safely ride a bicycle so you can a motor vehicle. You just need to judge surrounding environment better.
I think that's enought on the topic :-) You get what I mean...
As to the price of similarly equipped Toyota Sienna and MPV. You should keep in mind, that Mr La Fave has tested Canadian vehicles and the MPV's value is even greater with the equipment that is standard on Canadian models.
Sienna's closest model is LE. In fact, Sienna LE + LE Value package is almost perfect match to MPV LX + Sport package.
Here is what I get from Toyota and Mazda web sites:
But I think you guys are protesting too much; if word gets out any more, you'll be waiting in line to buy a MPV, won't be able to test drive it, the dealers will demand MSRP etc. Best to keep the secret to yourselves :-)
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Hi Steve! Glad we've evoked a response from the gallery
--javadoc
--java
Just look under the "Recent Stuff" section onthe main page.
Dennis
-Dave
I'm currently looking to buy a 2001 LX in the Toronto area. I see you live in Ottawa - is that where your dealer is
02 are coming, dealers need to make space!
They want your service. They will get none or little if MPV is as reliable as my wife's 93 protege.