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Comments
Your argument only proves the fact that no one car is right for everyone. It would be a boring place if we all liked and drove the same make and model.
You should probably buy a Hyundai. You will get the equipment you like at a lower price, I guess.
You will also pay later in resale.
You ask "WHY would a merchant want to sell a popular prouuct for less than they paid for it?"
I would answer because they still can make a profit from the holdback. Of course I don't expect Honda to sell below invoice but if they do we don't have to feel too sorry for them.
When the current Accord was released for MY '98 it did not have break away (is that the right term?) side view mirrors. But they added them (I think for '00) based on consumer feedback. For '01 they added TCS, CD changer, etc. Every year the base price of a car goes up, why shouldn't the consumer expect certain things to be changed or added along the way?
I always get a kick out of it when someone asks..."Can I buy a popular car for below invoice"
And I sometimes respond, I guess, in perhaps a flippant manner. Don't mean to be rude...BUT...
I sit and wonder what do they want?
As a lifelong businessman and former business owner, I just wonder WHY someone would expect a merchant, ANY merchant to cheap sell a popular product for below their cost??
And, please...I've explained holdback too many times in these forums...I won't do it again.
Suffice to say that holdback is NOT bottom line profit to the dealer.
All of this being said...hey...if a dealer want's to give away their product and profits, they can do that too!
It's a balance. Buyers expect and want changes and improvements in new models. They also do not like to see price increases. The breakaway mirrors are probably a great example.
Lots of improvements in the 1998 Accords. The breakaway mirrors went away. The VAST majority of buyers (including me)didn't notice or didn't care. Personally, I didn't think it was a big deal.
But I guess a lot of other potential buyers did care and they came back the following year.
Like I said...it's a balance.
I have sold, literally, hundreds of Civics and have yet to hear anybody mention the lack of break away mirrors.
So, should Honda add breakaway mirrors and 100.00 (or whatever) to the cost of the cars to make just a few people happy?
I'm sure the marketing people deal with questions like this every day.
http://www.autonews.com/html/main/tc2001/hondatc807.htm
Honda's goal in the weld process, Adams said, is to achieve a high level of consistency across product lines by welding as much as possible in a single process.
The system also reduced the number of lost units due to changeover by 65 percent. One of Honda's goals is to shift the production of vehicles from a current model to the model's next generation without stopping the line.
Is this a make-or-break thing? Of course not...but if someone had asked me about the '98, I would certainly have encouraged Honda to fix it, which they eventually did.
I am acutely aware that every decision like this is a tradeoff between keeping prices steady and making features available...when the tradeoffs end, you get to spend $60k and you get an LS430 for your trouble, which is no bad thing, assuming the money is there. In the end, in this segment, it's the competition that drives both features and price...vive la competition...
I seldom get to drive the Honda, and I have driven mostly manuals. Is this normal? I don't really have any complaint with the car; and I might not have depressed the accelerator fast enough to make the transmission downshift. In two weeks my daughter goes back to school and I can drive it again.
I have observed mirrors on my Accord partially folded out side of walkmart....so safe to assume that they would have sustained a damage without this feature. Civic is less likely to get touched in the parking lots than the Accord!
Speaking of tight fits, it's not just larger cars like the Accord that benefit from fold-away mirrors. My last car, a '97 Sentra, did not have them. My present car, a '01 Elantra, does. Both have mirrors that are quite large for a small car. Therein lies the problem. My other car is a '99 Grand Caravan, which is usually parked on the right side of my garage. My lovely wife likes to steer clear of the right garage door frame, leaving me with minimal space to dodge the left door frame. A couple of times with the Sentra (once for me, once for my wife) we didn't pay close enough attention to the door post, so I got to invest in two new power mirror assemblies at about $150 each including installation. I've brushed the door post with my Elantra a couple of times too. No damage, just had to reach out and push the mirror back into position. I've also found the folding mirrors invaluable in parking garages that either have narrow spots or where some jerk has not centered his/her car. I can fold the mirror and squeeze in real close to the opposite garage pillar. I am a big fan of folding mirrors.
KYLE
This was a pain in the neck for awhile. Honda blamed the radio manufacturer and visa versa. They finally got things isolated.
I am new in this talk but have been reading this
civic owner discussion for a while. It is really
helpful, tons of information.
Isellhondas -
In your post(1018) saying Honda and Radio factory
blame each other, have they got a solution yet?
I went to the dealer in Feb. to order an new radio
but upto now still unsuccessful. every time I call
the dealer for the radio, they always said: we are
still waiting Honda to get avaliable radio, and then
I called American Honda, and the answer was
being short of part. I don't know what could I do
now. if you know the current Honda solution to the
radio code problem or any news please let me know.
It has been six months since the first visit to the
dealer, and the code need be entered every week,
very frustrated and dispointed with this radio
and the dealer, even Honda. You know this is my
first Honda car and it has been a bad experience.
Thanks lot!
Road noise is getting into cabin too. Is that because of the tire choice (Firestone) or suspension? Again, road noise was much lower the first week.
Seems like after the second week, Civic drives more and more like my old Elantra with loud engine noise and road noise noticeble inside the cabin. I heard 01 Elantra drives much better and is more capable with 140-hp but the interior/exterior look doesn't impress me. I like the Hyundai warranty, but the designers have got to be more sensible with their overall car contour and styling. After all, that's how Japanese and American car makers get to win the sharemarket for 25-35 yr-old market segment. Just a thought.
Other than those and the so-so AC, I have no problems with it. 02 Civic will have new evaporator for AC because I'm in the auto HVAC industry. I suspect my so-so AC is due to the current evaporator. But if the current evaporator is not performing well in some cars, can I take this as a warranty case to the dealer? I have had a miserable time cooling the cabin down during the heat wave period. Not a problem with my old Elantra.
It shouldn't be THAT big of a headache?
Just have to reenter the code every few days as it loses it's memory.
Not all cars were affected by this.
Seems like this would be easy to correct by simply using stiffer rear shocks. It's entirely possible the 2002's will have these.
Expect to see some 2002's early next month.
My car has 8500 miles now. The engine noise is louder than what it was at 2000 miles. But it's still bearable for me.
The paint is kind of easy to be chip away. Even a very very minor scratch will leave a trace. But, hey, this is a cheap car. I am not expecting it to have 9 layers of paint found in my ex-Lexus.
In general, I think this is a solid car with one major design bug.
It is also weird that many guys who mourned the loss of front bones don't have problem with the front struts but with the rear bones !! Maybe it adds injury to insult !! Who knows !!!
2001 Civic drives more like Corolla -:))
And, if anything, this would make for a stiffier and not a bouncier ride.
And, yeah...if they do stiffen the spring and shock rates to reduce bounce, these forums will probably have some folks complaining about a rough ride! It's hard to win sometimes!
It'll be awhile before and 2002 CRVS are seen.
I've owned a lot of Honda products over the past 20 years [our current drive is an '01 Accord EX V6, a truly wonderful piece of work], and recently helped a friend's daughter buy her first new car, a 2001 Civic LX coupe. She thinks she went to automotive heaven. It's my unscientific opinion that there are far more like her out there than are posting on this board.
I think the hardcore are going to be very happy with the upcoming Civic hatch, produced in Swindon, UK, and arriving here early next year. The mainstream are going to continue to buy the Civic sedan and coupe for all of the reasons that people are attracted to these cars, and 99% of them care little about the suspension details. For those who do, aftermarket struts will no doubt be the only successful answer; or get a Mazda Protege EX, as long as you have a trustworthy Mazda dealer in your neck of the woods. No car maker can be all things to all people...Honda obviously feels it needed to "refine" the Civic sedan more than some of you cared for. It's too soon to tell if that was a good or bad marketing decision, but I for one understand why they made it.
The Corolla wasn't even close.
Still, I can't ever remember a shopper telling me they didn't like the way they handle nor have I lost a sale (that I know of) for that reason.
I think they handle great. They could be made to handle better I guess, but as someone else said, 99% of the buying public wouldn't care.
Also, my new Civic had 39-41 mpg. Only 550 miles on it, well ahead before the first oil and filter change. The first (41 mgp) was a shock to me because I had read comments from others in this forum about their 20-something mpg. I only drive in the city (60 mph max). Engine noise is noticeable, though.
It's too bad the Civic Si will be a seriously limited production model. High prices and low availability essentially make this a non-choice.
My car has a weird sound during a raining day and it has been happening for couple months. It sounds like it's sucking in water and I can hear the engein shaking a little. I called the service department and reported about this last week and they said that they will give me a call back but I am still waiting for their phone call.
I think we should call dealers or Honda Automobile Division to report any problems that we have so they can check for it.
Also how much money would it take to get the abrasion fixed. A guess would be fine.
PLEASE REPLY..Thanks!