Honda Civic 2005 and earlier

asdxere

Check out www.markroberts.com, a dealer in Bartlesville, Oklahoma. His site says $316 over invoice, but when you do the math it's actually $349 over invoice ( must be some kind of doc fee? ). Anyway, show THAT to your dealer and watch him squirm...
Hope you get a good deal !

isellhondas

It's a long long way from OK to CA!

The local dealer might just say..." OK, I can't beat that, you better just fly to Oklahoma!"

mopargirl, I would simply make your local dealer an offer based on what you are willing to pay. They don't want to give you a number to go shop them with. The CA marketplace, especially So. Calif is a tough, brutal place to sell cars!

gasguzz

I agree with Isell. Show a dealer a written quote $1k below invoice and "well, buy it over there". A new car will be sold based on what the buyer/dealer agree to, nothing more nothing less. There is only one viable target - the "invoice price" (how close you get to that is a dance that changes hourly). Save yourself the hassle and make a (reasonable) offer, or walkout. Given: the average new car is sold within 3 months on the new car lot (Hons/Toys probably sell in half that time).
Good luck.

justin

The car is still running fine. I am amazed that it is doing as well as it is. The automatic transmission is annoying sometimes, but what automatic isn't? Also, the bouncy ride bugs me sometimes, but everytime I go around a corner, I am glad that it rides that way. Hardly any body lean. Sometimes it acts like it is on rails, but then if a bump comes along, it just does not recover like it should. Too bouncy. Loving the MPG's and the more I look at it, the more I think it is quite a pretty car for the money.

mdriver

I have seen about six 02s last week, all sedans. It seems like there are definitely many extras over the 01 for only $100 more. On the LX you gain chrome interior door handles, body colour exterior door handles, rear roll bar, cup holder cover, driver armrest.

But STILL no ABS on the LX and the same crummy 14" wheels when everyone else fits 15", 16" and even 17" wheels. Even the Hyundai Elantra that costs several thousand $ less manages to get 15" wheels and Michelins as standard. How does a car known for its frugal price get Michelins (and standard side SRS) when the Civic gets the "K-Mart" of tires: Firestones?

tazereli

why is it that honda still puts puny 14" tires on their cars ans then have the rims shod with those horrible firestones? I would spin them on my 98 EX just so i could get new tires faster.

isellhondas

No doubt I'll get blasted for this...oh well!

I can't remember tire size EVER coming up as a problem from a prospective buyer.

Personally I see nothing wrong with 14 inchers but would welcome a change (I guess) to a larger size.

And, the "K-Mart" Firestones actually hold up pretty well. I've seen 60,000 or more on them.

I guess the marketing people have a lot of decision to make. What to leave in and what to leave out. If what bothers a small percentage of potential shoppers but is of little concern to the masses, that probably won't be changed.

I guess I'm no different...I want it all. BUT...don't raise the price!!

I've worked in Marketing and have to tell you...it's a balancing act!

tazereli

no doubt that the firestones could reach 60K miles but just because ther are hi mileage doesnt make them a good tire. The FR680's that came standard on mine performs like drag slicks in wet and snowy weather. they were very easy to hydroplane and didnt have a whole lot of snow traction. As for the replacement tires, the dunlop D60's made the firestones look like the old bias ply tires (remember those?) in grip in the wet and dry and have rather good snow traction for a performance biased all season. Perhaps the firestones were more of a hiway tire than a driving tire. Well that doenst suit my driving style. I liek to take my civic into the twisties adn the dunlops win hands down.

My .02
Kyle

s852

14" tires are kind of small nowadays even for a compact car, but it is not a huge issue on an LX sedan. At least you save a few dollars if you keep the car long enough to need to buy replacements.
If I were going to get a Civic, I would probably get the EX anyway and I think those come with 15" tires.
Except for the few people that are too tall to fit under the moonroof of the EX, most people that choose the LX over an EX are doing it to save money.
Honda could probably still think about moving to 15" tires in the next year or so for all the Civics except the lowest end DXs that are for true penny-pinching misers.

backy

And the Honda folks know that, too. (They must have seen at least one Godzilla movie in their lifetimes.) If size did not matter, Honda and Toyota and Mazda and all the rest would still be putting 175/70-13s on their small cars. The reason it doesn't come up as an issue is A) it's something that is obvious to the buyer, so if it is a big issue you will not see that buyer at the Honda dealer, he/she will shop someplace else, or the buyer realizes that it is easily fixed with aftermarket rims and tires (ever see those on a Civic?).
Re the Firestones, I'll give the Honda engineers the benefit of the doubt in matching the tires to the car. Sometimes OEM Michelins aren't the greatest, either--witness the many reports of tire shimmy problems with Michelin-equipped '01 Elantras. I don't recall any reports of such problems with the Firestones on the '01 Civics.

mdriver

Michelins, in general, are highly regarded the world over (even if they are made by a French company ). You won't find Firestones on anything made in Europe. I've driven an Elantra and it didn't shimmy, but it was the quietest small car I had ever experienced. But no one has yet explained why the Elantra, that is regarded as a "cheap" car, has more upscale tires than even the top line Civic. The content that Honda proclaims is worthy of the EX model, is simply standard on every Elantra (except for ABS which is optional).

silver_bullet

Honda dealers like to harp about the great resale of their cars because there isn't much else to recommend them. Look, if you are most concerned about return on investment, stay away from car lots, and go talk to your financial planner instead - all cars are losing propositions, some just a bit more than others. Honda puts garbage Firestone FR680s and steel wheels on Civics because they are CHEAP, and they hope consumers won't notice. Period. The argument that "they sure last a long time" is absurd - that just means you get to "enjoy" your mediocre and often dangerous tires that much longer. I do agree with Isell when he says marketing is a balancing act - quite true. Honda just needs to dial back the greed factor a few notches and start offering products that offer features and value, as opposed to excuses.

twistinmelon

While Honda has kept MSRP increases on Civics (and Accords for that matter) to $100, invoice prices have risen by more than $200.

For example:

Civic LX Sedan 5spd

2001 invoice: 13,572 (plus dest)
2002 invoice: 13,813 (plus dest)

Honda Accord LX Sedan 5spd

2001 invoice: 16,727 (plus dest)
2002 invoice: 17,005 (plus dest)

So, because the dealer's actual cost has gone up by $241 on the Civic, you are probably going to be paying about $241 more for a 2002 Civic than you would have paid for a 2001. Unless I've missed something.

But if they've improved the ride and handling as they claim, the nice list of additional features on the 2002's (especially at the LX grade) seems a fair trade for a price increase of less than 2 percent (basically "free" if you account for inflation).

twist

isellhondas

Very hard to not respond to nasty posts with a flippant reply.

So, I'll talk about my 1997 Civic LX that I kept for two years and something like 24,000 miles.

It came with the "cheap" Firestones.

It never shimmied or caused me any tire trouble. When I sold the Civic the tires looked like new.

That car went through a rare Seattle snowstorm without trouble. One night I wondered if I would make it home and I managed to do so without putting on my never used chains.

Now...if I had kept that Civic to the point where it needed tires, I wouldn't have replaced them with Firestones. I would have paid more money and upgraded them like I always do.

It is, indeed, a balancing act..." Give me better tires and larger wheels BUT, don't raise the price!"

Everybody should work for a time in marketing.

vmaturo

For the same reason it has 3/36 warranty.

They can get away with it. Obviously people buying them are satisfied with whatever Honda gives them.

mdriver

I have seen a number of 2002 Civic 4 doors with Dunlop tires. This is not necessarily an upgrade from the Firestones. They are still S-rated, 14" 70 profile on the LX. This type of tire is about as cheap as you can go. On motorweek, when they tested the EX, they said that it needed better tires. And that was the EX not the LX! What really annoys me is that Honda does not offer a dealer available wheel size upgrade. Sure you can get alloys from the dealer. But all they do is swap the 14" rim (LX) for a 14" alloy and you get the same Firestones remounted. I've seen dealers charge $1495 for the alloys. This is pennywise pound foolish for the dealer, bacause semi-knowledgable potential customers will see this price and simply leave instantly.

backy

Are Dunlops really that bad? I've seen certain models highly rated in tire tests, e.g. Consumer Reports. Also, I put Dunlops on my '91 Caravan after the original Goodyears wore out and was very pleased with their performance--great all-weather performance, quiet, good grip. Not that the Caravan was a sports car or anything. I went in planning to buy Pirellis, after a great experience with them on my '85 Civic S, but the tire shop steered me to the less-expensive Dunlops, saying they were as good as the Pirellis for less money. This was the same tire shop that told me I didn't need new tires yet when I came in, money in hand, to buy a set of new tires when I had 60,000 miles on my OEM Michelins on the '85 Civic S. They ran another 15,000 miles--two years for me.
Maybe Honda should just give in, mount top-of-the-line Bridgestones or Continentals or Pirellis or whatever will please the tire critics out there, and bump up the price accordingly. What's another $200 on the Civic when it's already overpriced for what you get?

isellhondas

Will do a changover. Drive your new car from the dealership to the store. They will swap your tires for whatever you want and will sell your barely used tires as used tires.

Of course, the costs will vary depending on the store and the tires you choose.

mdriver

Dunlop makes some good tires, it's just that the tires Honda puts on the Civic are probably the bottom of Dunlop's range.

isellhondas: when you say "swap" tires, do you mean that a tire dealer will sell you a set of wheels and tires at their normal price and keep your factory wheels and tires. Or will they do a kind of trade-in for a new set. Even though the Civic stock wheels and tires are mostly undesireable, you hate to just give them away. I suppose you could keep them, but they take up much room. The other problem is, you never know how an "upgraded" set will behave until they are mounted (and payed for) on your car. As far as I know, you can't "test drive" a set of wheels and tires on your car.

backy

The stock Honda wheels would come in handy for your "winter" wheels, if you put performance tires on your Civic. That would make winter change-over a snap, and the snow and salt wouldn't mess up your alloys (assuming you get alloys with your fancy new tires). And assuming you get winter where you live.

gasguzz

Why would you give up the oem wheels/tires if you paid retail for the new set. My brother went straight from the dealer to the tire shop and TRADED to 16-alloys/tires on his daughter's 01-EX. You have to eat something, the oem tires had some 4 miles on them but they are USED (a new tire that's MOUNTED, or new wheel that is INSTALLED on a car is generally rendered used at that point legally).

isellhondas

That the tire dealer will pay you for your barely used tires. He will then sell these as used to an eager market.

Wheels probably aren't of much use for him although as someone else mentioned, in areas that permit studded winter tires there is a market for them. The wrecking yards get big money fo these!

bordsource

I'm sorry, Isell, but these tires are pure crap. They sing on the highway, they hydroplane easily, they give no traction in the snow, and they have poor wet weather grip in general (Watch the revs on wet pavement). They corner okay (no squealing), and they ride okay, but they're not exceptional in either regard. Go to www.tirerack.com and check on this tire; it's rated poorly. There's a reason.

PS- I've had these tires in snow and ice before. Trust me, they're no good. 1st gear was unusable under any circumstances. I'm not a person who guns it in snow; I take my time and let out the clutch as slowly as possible. There wasn't enough traction to get moving. I had to instead use 2nd and slip the clutch. That's sad.

jlim1

I'm looking for a quieter, smoother ride for my 01 Civic EX sedan. What are some of the well-known tires in the market to sub the Firestones? I heard about the Yokohama. What do you think? Thanks.

isellhondas

OK...you are probably the one in 100 people who feel that way. Seriously, I really don't hear these complaints and had NO PROBLEMS with my Firestones on my 97 LX Civic even in the snow.

Are there much better tires...of course!

silver_bullet

I'm not excusing Honda, but most manufacturers of cars in this price range install barely adequate all-season tires. The Firestone FR680s are pathetic tires, but so were the Goodyear RS-A tires that came on my fiancee's Focus. I just budget for an immediate replacement, and try to find someone who's happy to give me a few dollars for the take-offs. It is amazing how much better the Focus steers, handles and brakes with V rated Pirelli P6000 tires!

autolover3

Two quick questions---any feedback would be appreciated. I own a '98 EX Auto Civic and love it. Looking at '02 for another purchase. 1). Do they still have timing belts? or now chains? What does it cost to replace? 2). How is the ride in the newer generation '02? Any answers are appreciated. Thanks.

mdriver

Well most of these questions are already answered on this site, but here's my opinion:

1. They still have belts. It's cheaper to build an engine with a belt than a chain. It's not cheap to replace, maybe 4 or $500
3. The ride of the 01 (haven't driven an 02 but it is supposed to be better) is noticeably inferior to the 96-00 Civic, but the handling is about the same, which is nothing special although perfectly adequate for most people.

breckco

Just bought a 2001 LX 5 spd. I love this car. Overall very impressed. I always take exceptional care of my cars and am having a hard time waiting to change the oil. Honda says it has a special break-in additive called FE 97 and not to change it early. I'm in the habit of changing new car oil at 1K, 3K, and then every 3K or 3 Mo. to flush the contaminants and shavings. I did this with the last Civic I had (98 LX) and when the technician adjusted the valves he said he never saw such a clean motor. The trouble is that a Service Mgr I trust at a Honda dealer said he'd change it early and that the installed oil is just regular oil. I know he's not trying to sell more oil changes as he knows I change it myself. I really want this car to last a long time.

Any opinions?

Live Happy,

Chris

mdriver

What does the manual say about the first oil change? I would follow that schedule. I have read about the break-in oil and I think that it is true that it is not just regular oil.

patrick45

I have a friend who purchased a new 2001 Civic LX in June and I read the vehicle owners manual and it states very clearly that you ARE NOT to change the motor oil before 5,000 miles!!! AND it also states that you MUST use 5W-20 motor oil. If you read the vehicle owners manual, you'll probably discover a lot of very good information regarding the upkeep of your vehicle to keep it looking and running it's best for many years. I personally plan on purchasing a 2002 Civic LX w/auto trans. sometime in the very near future. I firmly believe in maintaining your vehicle properly. Just remember, you need to take care of what takes care of you. Regarding asking a dealership service manager any questions; I've dealt with or spoken with many dealership service managers and they all seem to have different answers to the same questions. I've picked their brains about service intervals and some say go by the manual, but most seem to create their own service schedules usually based on the 3 mos/3000 miles interval. The 2001 Civic manual says change your oil every 7,500 miles for "severe" driving conditions and 10,000 miles for "normal" driving conditions. Obviously, the dealership is going to make a lot more money by suggesting at the time of sale that you need to go by their service recommendations to keep your vehicle in tip top running condition. I would say the Honda engineers who built the Civic and who assisted in putting together the owners manual are more well versed about your Civic than anyone else out their. Good luck. The Civic is a wise investment!

mdriver

Interesting how some people cannot let go of the 3month/3000mi change routine. Now if we can only get people to wear their seat belts with the same kind of mass acceptance.

truckdude1

I am hearing that the Honda Civic EX automatic isnt as reliable as the Honda Civic LX automatic ?? is this true or not, or is the Honda EX 127 HP engine very reliable too, or is it super or is it bad, this is weird and also we have the EX coupe does that make a difference, please get back to us as soon as you can and tell us about your Honda Civic experience and what your vehicle mileage is ? thanks
Truckdude1

jlim1

My 01 Civic EX automatic sedan has been good so far. Just trying to figure out what caused the minor rattle around the front passenger's seat belt pillar (happening only in the early morning; cool temperature). I managed to fix the minor rattle in the glovebox myself this morning. Took the case to the dealership last month and although they thought by tightening the box to the dashboard would iron the rattle out, it didn't. So I thought I should place some tape on the hook where the latch grips upon and it worked! Some dimensional problem with the hook thickness or latch's.
Mileage has been consistently 41 mpg. Heard an unofficial rumor that early production had so-so mileage because of Visteon's problem with the clusters (could it be that the miles are not generated correctly). Again, this is just unofficial. I wasn't even sure if Visteon designs/makes the clusters.
Engine has been peppy. I noticed that it has a hard time shifting in the early morning and cooler weather. Also at this condition, the engine tends to be loud.
Anytime the car hits the long deep cracks on the road (we have a lot of such streets here), you could feel and hear annoying thumps from the rear wheels. Feels so much like a cheap/old car. Is this a suspension-related issue or is this normal? I'm planning to bring the dealer's technician in for a ride this week to illustrate the case.
Wish that someday, Honda engineering would be able to put the pieces of good features from other competitors together and make Civic more formidable - Elantra's quiet cabin, Civic's great mileage and crash strength, Corolla's reliability, and Focus' ride.
Hope you like your Civic too. My experience wtih automotive quality is to avoid the first three months of production cars (especially when they are all-new redesign). There're most likely quality issues found in those units than the later. Even in late 2001 model, there has been engineering design changes to the climate control components to improve air flow distribution and cooling capacity. I bet that happened in the cluster, IP, etc. Even the 2002 Camry's climate control components had minor problem from supplier but were instantly ironed out before it reached Toyota for assembly into Camry. Maybe not the case with Civic, thus the high findings of initial quality problems in new car (refer to JD Powers survey). You don't find that in Corolla or Camry or Sequioa because of Toyota's very stringent and high expectations of quick countermeasures and alertness.

mdriver

If Honda wants to know how to build a quiet car, they should take apart a Hyundai Elantra to see how its done. While they're at it, they should also see how to make a height adjustable seat the correct way.

dudka

i think i figured it out, why elantras are quieter than civics or corollas, it is because they are glued together, and glue has lower density and thus acts as sound deadening material, the reason you don't hear the engine so much is because instead of using engine mounts in the elentra's they used rubbber bands to hold the engine in place while it is on the ship and at the dealer's lot. once you drove it off the lot, it is your problem then. but hey staples has rubber bands on sale.
this would explain the reliability issues hyundai is having with its cars

vocus

Actually, Hyundai reliability has improved of late. I am surprised that there has been 2 recalls on the new generation Civics though. Very surprising.

2001civicowner

I bought a 2001 EX sedan in August, with a manufacturing date of February. It's running great--I see no reason why it should be deemed unreliable. Granted, I only have 3000 miles, but I haven't heard anything about any Honda ever being unreliable. My only 2 gripes about the car is that the tires DO suck, and the factory speakers are quite lacking. Some of the things said in this forum I can relate too, but I think it's a great car...
If you check your oil (that's right, open the hood and look at the oil) you'll see something that you would never see in oil that is 3000 miles old--its still quite light in color, as opposed to being very dark. I'm planning on changing my oil around 3,500 or 4000 and see how it goes from there. It's very, very hard to get away from the 3,000 thing...
I plan on keeping it either 10 years, or 200,000 miles--whatever comes first

mdriver

I wouldn't count on the 200,000 mi lifetime for your Civic. My 97 developed a bad case of piston slap at about 85k mi with oil changes at every 3k. This is only evident when the engine is cold, sounding like a diesel, but it is disappointing. I seriously doubt that my car would go for another 100k mi with this problem.

Glue: many cars use extensive amounts of glue for construction, not just Hyundais. The Elantra's reliability has been increasing exponentially while the Civic's has been level for years. Based on my experience with both cars, I suspect that the Elantra is very close in reliability with the Civic.

gasguzz

when Honda starts taking lessons from Hyundai/Kia/Daewoo. Most car buying experiences are based on your emotions and checkbook, and not all techno-mechanical. Spell marketing... Honda switching to front struts (another debate) but adding the flat floor - distracting you to the right hand from the left. Given what my 2k is SUPPOSED to be, it's "right" for me (of course it's not perfect). Honda is still no slouch when it comes to technology, that's why they're still among the guys to beat.
My in-law offered to buy a NEW Hyundai for his son's 16th (because it's cheap). His son opted for a USED '98EX-Coupe, "because it's a Honda". A pic tells a thousand words... his friends too - they all drive Integs/Civics. Again, Honda and Hyundai know this.

mfriederichs

Had Firestones as original on my 98. They were loud with no grip from day 1, especially in snow. Replaced them with Coopers and noise dropped dramatically, and all-around performance is much better.

lfoerster

I have a 99 camry that is up for end of lease in Jan 02. I'm thinking that honda will ahve some sort of financing or lease offers by then. Am I assuming correctly? Also, is there any difference between the 01 ond 02 EX? Anyone think they'll be any 01 EX's left by Jan 02?

autolover3

LFoerster, try going to www.hondanews.com I believe that is site that goes over new options/standard equipment/changes for the new model year. As far as incentives go for Civics, I am not totally sure, but I always thought it was more like July-August before Honda starts offering a lower APR. I bought my '98 in 98 (Aug) as a 'leftover' with 4.9% for 48 mos. Hope this helps.

2001civicowner

If you take care of any car well enough, it will last a long time.
Anyway, as far as technology goes, I'm appreciating the nice feature that my civic has. It has an integrated antenna, so there is no dorky "fin" coming off of my car like a Jetta.
Look around...not many cars in the civic class have a feature like that.
My brother just bought a new passat, and it has the fin.
I can't wait to buy new tires and speakers.
I just don't have the cash flow right now...

honda86

I just purchased a new 2001 Honda Civic, which is about the same size and exactly the same weight as my much-beloved 1986 Honda Accord. I'm very happy with the "new car" features, and I like the fact that the engine is so much quieter. The problem with the Civic is that it is miserable to drive, especially compared to my old car. The 86 Accord didn't have any looseness in the steering, but the Civic is so hard to turn that it almost seems as if it doesn't have power steering, even though I know it does.

Is this the experience that others have had with this car? I had planned to drive this car 16 years as I did the 86 but am dreading the thought of it. I've only got 325 miles and two weeks on the car, so we've got a long way to go. I can't afford to sell the Civic and buy another maker, but if I could I would do it in a minute. Unfortunately, the 86 has been sold, so keeping it and selling the new one is not an option.

Any suggestions?

tatianamh

Hi,

Does anyone know if Honda offers a rebate to
college grads? If so, where could I find out the
info on it? I would rather not have to ask the
dealer.

Thanks.

civic_cx_92

Honda Accord, Civic Finish One-Two On August Sales Charts

Torrance, Calif. 09/06/2001 -- Honda's Accord and Civic were the two best-selling cars in American in August, according to industry sales figures

Civic, which was all-new at the start of the 2001 model year, is the perennial small car sales leader. The Civic tops the segment for both the model and calendar years and is the fourth best-selling car overall. The Civic's August sales total of 36,533 was the best month in the car's 28-year history.

http://www.hondanews.com

mdriver, you don't get to be #1 and #2 by imitating Hyundais who didn't even make #4.

mdriver

Chevy used to be #1 in the 70s. Sometimes you get to #1 not necessarily by building the best car, but by maintaining that there are no viable alternatives through a formidable marketing program. If Honda chooses to ignore the Elantra because they think people will always buy Hondas, they are going down the same road GM went down in the 70s.

civic_cx_92

1987 Honda Prelude Si. Originally purchased on January 10, 1987 at Pottstown Honda of Limerick, PA

"As of August 7, 2001 car has 713,083 miles on it and still looks and runs great."

http://www.hondabeat.com/hbeat/highmiles.cfm#special

no ifs, buts, or excuses there, can you top that?

dudka

as far as i know, honda does not offer cash back as other manufacturers, but, this is what i got in 99 when i graduated and was ready to buy a new car, you are guaranteed the lowest fincance rate that is offered by honda finance at the time, with out credit history, given that you have no negative credit history. it is great for building your credit history with something other than credit card credit history that most students have. you will only get the 4.9% APR if you always paid your credit cards on time, if you have any, never folded on a loan, or have no credit history at all. you are eligible for the program if you plan to graduate or have graduated within 6 months. they never asked me to show the diploma, so i don't know how they check whether you indeed have just graduated.