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Comments
My question is for those drivers who claim to get 44mpg. How do you do it? Do you always drive highway at 55mph?
I do calculate my mileage as jcarroll54 recommended(#1351).
Is their any test that I or the dealership can do?
Problems Encountered
1 - Noticed suspension noise as soon as I picked up the car. Dealer replaced the driver side strut but the noise persists. It happens when the car goes over bump slowly such as speed bumps. Now the passenger side is also making the same noise.
2 - The steering system creaks when I turing the steering slowly and the car is moving slowly such as backing out of the driveway. Haven't had a chance to have the dealer look into this.
3 - Suspension noise when the car goes over a gentle depression. it sounds like the suspension buttoms out.
4 - Car wandered and was very sensitive to side wind. Finally convinced dealer to perform an alignment. It is acceptable now.
5 - Driver side armrest fell off. I fixed it myself. I notice that it will come loose if I move it up and down a few times.
6 - Engine stalled once. It was a hot day. I waited 10 minutes and the car re-started reluctantly.
7 - Abrupt down shift when braking. It is unpredicatable and harsh. I find this disconcerting.
8 - When the temperature drops to below 10C (50F) and in gradual acceleration, there is a delay in upshifting to the highest gear causing the engine to rev pass 3000 rpm as if the transmission were in neutual. It settles down when the upshift is completed. It seems the engine and the transmission somehow looses communication.
9 - Excessive wind noise on both front windows. The window, not the door seal, is causing the problem.
10 - The driver seat is becoming too soft and loose (it moves up and down by a quarter inch).
11 - Steering wheel was off centre. Dealer performed alignment twice to fix the problem. It is acceptable now.
12 - Lately, when turing on heat, gurgling noise comes from the heater core. No leaks yet. Don't know why.
Gripes:
1 - The suspension generates all kind of noise. It seems to be teething problem with a new suspension design.
2 - The engine develops a slight ping during acceleration. WIth more miles on the engine, I am sure I will have to feed it with premium gas in order to keep it quiet. The compression ratio of this engine is high and the transmission is too willing to go to and stay in top gear.
3 - The door armrest seems flimsy and not solidly attached to the door.
4 - Engine and transmission mount noise when shifting to park or reverse with the brakes applied.
5 - The passenger side mirror move can be moved with a gentle touch such as washing.
6 - The passenger side mirror is not heated. I am more than happy to pay for one.
7 - No sun shade behind the rear view mirror.
8 - The colour of the bumper and the metal surface are not the same under sunlight.
9 - No aluminized or stainless steele exhaust system. I am more happy to pay more for quality parts.
10 - Why deviate from Acura tradition of putting Michelin tires such as XGT V as OEM tires. The Firestone tires are good but not as good as XGT. Lately, the Firestone tires do not seem to stick to the road like they used to,
11 - Excessive engine noise and tire roar.
12 - I have to remind myself to remember where I put the gas cap when gasing up. The 91 Integra has a hanger for the cap.
13 - The rear window defogger works very very slowly.
14 - It is difficult or impossible to keep the windows clear in rainy or very cold days.
15 - The front heater duct is so close to the carpet that it heats the bottom of my shoes instead of the legs.
17 - The buttons on the radio are too small, too stiff and too close to each other. The radio flashes the CD track number only momentarily. The volume control is not linear - either too loud or not enough.
18 - The electrical outlet blocks the cup in the cup holder or vice versa.
19 - When in park position, the transmission shift handle makes it difficult to remove the cup from the cup holder.
20 - The head lights are ineffective in fog while driving at night.
21 - Fit and finish is definitely below par using 91 Integra as the reference (which I believe is fair).
22 - Sharp or rough edges in many plastic pieces.
23 - the plastic piece that cover the botton of the windshield seems loose. So far no leak yet.
24 - New oil and air filter design and part number.
25 - The side mirrors are mounted too low compared with the position of the driver seat. Take some getting used to.
26 - No double seal around doors.
27 - The fan, air flow and temperature buttons are too small. We do wear gloves in winter.
28 - The rear window defogger works very very slowly.
29 - I find it difficult to keep the inside windows clear when it is raining outside or very cold. It seems air outlets are poorly located. On the 91 Integra, the outlet is right on the door making it more effective in clearing the inside window.
30 - The front heater duct is mount so close low that it heats the sole of my shoe instead of my legs.
31 - Why not use timing chain, as in the RSX engine, which is maintenance free.
32 - The ignition key gets very hot after a few hours of driving, worse in summer.
Compliments:
1 - Excellent gas mileage.
2 - Excellent safety features and crashworthiness.
3 - Good dealer service (I bought both cars at the same dealer).
4 - Roomy interior.
5 - low maintenance.
Summary:
Overall it is a good car. Although not as good as the 91 Integra in terms of workmanship and quality of materials, it excels in other areas such as safety and crashworthiness. Well, its competitors, such as the Hyundai's Elentra and Mazda's Protege, have been raising the bar constantly which renders this car to the average category versus top of the heap. I believe Honda's markerting people, not the engineers, underestimated the responsiveness of its competitors when the car was designed 4 years ago. Has Honda become complacent or too focused on cost cutting?
Honda's engineering and design principle is 'make it simple'. They should immediately ditch the fuzzy logic (my regular and spot shift selection on the 91 Integra tranmission works beautifully), put in an extra gear (5th) so as to give a better balance between fuel efficiency and driveability.
Change the oil/filter, drive 65-70 mph, and check tire pressure.
The City test is approximately 11 miles long, stop and go, at about 20mph. The trip lasts 31 minutes, has 23 stops, and 18% is spent idling. The engine is initially started after parked overnight. The Highway is a 10 mile trip at an average of 48mph. The engine is started "hot" with little idling and no stops.
An EPA study determined that real drivers in actual conditions get 90% of the EPA City and 78% of EPA Highway values.
-Honda needs to ditch the base engine and make the 1.7L vtec standard. keep the hx engine though and make it available in sedan form
-make an si couple and sedan as well as hatch.
-make the ex the middle trim level and drop the dx trim level.
-make ABS at least an option in the lx and in the coupes
-give the civic a REAL wheel ugrade package to say 16" or 17" tires not just overpriced alloy wheels of the same size as the originals.
-alloy wheels standard on ex trim levels. why am i paying about 17K for a car with 15" steel wheels and plastic wheel covers?
these are just some of the ways honda can improve the civic enough to get me to buy another civic.
until then all my car money goes to my old favorite Subaru.
Kyle
I've read a lot of complaints on this discussion regarding the seventh generation Civic and some of these complaints may or may not be legitimate, I don't know. What I do know is this, the Honda Civic is an ECONOMY CAR, and a nice one too! Remember people, you're only paying between $14,000 - $17,000 for these cars. It's obvious that Honda has a few "quality" issues to deal with on the Civic and may have already done so with the 2002 model, but if you want the upscale appearance and amenities of a Lexus, Acura or Infiniti, then you better be ready to pony up $30,000 plus! I've test driven both the 2001 and 2002 Civic LX and it appears the 2002 is better/upgraded, although the 2001 seemed really nice.
For 2002 Honda made the following changes to the Civic:
Revised the suspension settings
New power steering pumps
Added stabilizer bar to the rear of the LX
Silver face gauges
Chrome interior door handles
Driver's side armrest on the LX
Exterior door handles now color keyed on the LX
Panel around gear shift on sedans now silver
By the way, a few have complained that the 2001 Civic making some creaking noises from the front suspension. Well with the 2002 revisions, this seems to have been corrected. I've heard that Honda for the 2002 Civic's changed the shocks or struts. Enjoy your Civic's!
Bought 10-18-01, miles 832, mpg avg so far 26.7.
Purchase price after t&l $17,000 (before t&l ~$15,400)
I bought at Honda of Kirkland, through Michelle Protzman. I can unequivocally reccomend both her and the dealership.
I considered the following other vehicles: Toyota Corrolla, Toyota Prius, Mazda Protege, Nissan Sentra, Hyundia accent, & Kia Sephia.
I decided on the Civic primarily because of it's fuel economy/emissions, reliability, comfort, and high resale value. The only other car on the list that was close was the Prius, which was uncomfortably small, or would have been my first choice.
I drive in the Seattle area (lots of wet roads, traffic). I mostly drive short trips under 10 miles.
Dislikes:
Rear suspension is a little too bouncy. For me this hasn't been too much of a problem, but it is definitely noticeable.
Use of Grade Logic upon braking. This may just take some getting used to.....
Climate controls. After a month, I still can't get the temperature "just right", it's either to hot, or....
Likes:
Steering & overall handling. Other than the rear suspension, I love the easy ride, and how easy it is to get in and out of cramped parking areas.
Comfort. The seating is very comfortable, the armrest is just the right length for me.
Looks. I like the redesign look, and the Satin Silver color is attractive and easy to keep clean.
Environmenal. The Civic is a ULEV. It is important to me to have something environmentally friendly. Fuel economy will be a 'like' once the car is broken in......
Overall, I have been very satisfied with my Civic the first month. I wouldn't hesitate to reccomend it to someone looking for a 'economy' compact sedan.
When I select defrost, the A/C comes on, which I know is normal. But after the windows are defrosted and I go to the heater or vent positions, the A/C remains on, or at least the green light does. Should the A/C go off when I move the selector out of the defrost position? I don't think the A/C should stay on when I'm trying to warm up the interior, but I have to press the A/C button to make it go off. Do all Civics work this way?
Thanks.
I feel sorry for the 01 buyers who have suspension issues. But other then that the vehicles are fine. I followed Phil's advice about never buying a year 1 car and bought an 02. No problems yet and happy with the car.
Tim
Truckdude1-
Don't waste your money on higher octane. Your Civic doesn't need it. Higher octane fuel is only for high performance engines that require it for proper combustion. You would just be blowing about 20+ cents per gallon out your exhaust pipe. Regarding the cleanliness of different octanes: I've read that using a higher octane than necessary actually increases emissions because the engine can use it. Finally, why mess with a good thing - Your averaging 35 mpg. Enjoy your Civic!
Live Happy,
Chris
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/2001/november/200111_feature_gasoline.xml
Bought an '02 Civic EX today! I'll pick it up on Tuesday. This is my first new car and I am ecstatic.
Was reading some info on Honda's website about maintenance, etc, and read the break-in requirements. It says no full-throttle acceleration or hard starts for 600 mi and no hard braking for 200 mi.
My new honda has 30 miles on it (about 10 or more of those put on by me). I didn't really do any full-throttle acceleration (kept it under 4k rpm
mostly) but I did really try out the brakes a couple times. I hit them hard enough to engage the ABS--just wanted to test the ABS out having never had it.
I should have known better had I thought about it, but anyone think this is a big deal? I know when I changed pads on my motorcycle, I read plenty of different accounts suggesting that while I shouldn't hard-brake often, an occasional hard-brake earlier in the process actually helped the break-in. However, other readings suggested that a few hard brakes early on could glaze the pads.
Thoughts are welcome...
thanks
mix
tough. Just enjoy the car and get through this break in period and you and the car will be fine.
I'm buying an 02 CRV , it has this hole and I see Civics also got them.
I'll be interested to see how my Civic fares this Dec-Feb during the Midwest winter season.
15 years ago, people would have laughed if a Hyundai was even mentioned in the same sentence as a Honda. But now, the Elantra has the Civic beat in a number of critical areas: quietness, tire quality/size, ride quality. A visual inspection shows the Elantra to be every bit as well built (if not better) than the Civic and no bouncing rear suspension. I'm not ready to say the Elantra is better overall than the 01/02 Civic, but it's getting pretty close.
Anyway..I had the dealer fix the wobbly drivers seat, and do the fuel hose clamp recall...I do love the car. Yes..it does have some interior minor rattles on some road surfaces, but I always remember that it is an enrty level vehicle, and am quite impressed with the design, engineering, and yes..the ride. I always felt that previous Civics were too harsh riding, and had too much road noise. This car is much better in that area for my tastes, anyway. I am getting consistant 36 MPG in town, and 40 hiway. I guess that I do drive it easily, but like the power avail at higher RPMs when needed.
My car was built in Japan, indicated by the VIN starting with J. Do you guys/gals have any indication of what issues are more pronounced in US built cars vs Japan built, or vice-versa? In the past I have owned 2 same year Camrys at the same time ...one US and one Japanese, with only minor trim differences, but no aparent reliability or quality differences, so I wonder if the same holds true with the Hondas. One obvious difference with the Camrys was the sunvisors where much more "substantial looking" on the US built car, but both held up the same and provided the same shading! LOL
Well..sorry for the long post, and I look forward to sharing more about my car and being part of this Civic community.
The closest thing to a Civic so far is the Lancer. It's biggest problem is that it's underpowered, not to mention rather...Japanese looking. It's got a Neon-ish ride height (too high), and a front end & grille that look like they were stolen off of a steamengine train. Oh, and Mitsu really messed up when they made ABS available only on the LS trim, which is auto only. That right there would've ruled it out for me.
Styling: I agree that the Elantra has character while the Civic is bland. I particularly like the rear-end treatment on the Elantra. I personally prefer the Elantra's bolder styling to the same-old-generic-Japanese-small-car styling of the Civic. But styling is very subjective; one person's ugly duckling is another's swan.
Gas mileage: Please give us the names of some compact cars with at least 140hp that get considerably better mpg than the Elantra. I think you will find that the Elantra's 25/33 EPA ratings are right up there with other small cars of comparable size and power.
Emissions: Correct, the Elantra is not a ULEV car like the Civic. But then the Civic is not SULEV like Nissan offers in the Sentra, so I guess both Hyundai and Honda can learn from Nissan.
Performance: At 8 secs. from 0-60 (per recent AutoWeek test), the Elantra is one of the fastest cars in its class--and faster than the top-line Civic EX, which lists for thousands more.
Crash tests: I think it is misleading to state that "the Elantra did far worse in crash tests." For all types of crash tests except the IIHS front offset test, the Elantra scored very well. On the NHSTA tests, Elantra did comparably to the Civic 4-dr (with its optional side air bags), each with two Good's and two Excellent's. On the IIHS front offset tests, Civic did much better than the Elantra, although Elantra did score high on structural integrity. And on the IIHS bumper crash tests, the Elantra did far better than the Civic (e.g., $0 damage for the Elantra in the rear crash vs. $462 for the Civic).
On the Lancer, I agree with your assessment but am a bit puzzled by your complaint about Mitsubishi not offering ABS except on the LS trim, since that strategy (offering ABS only on the top-level trim) has seemed to work out well for Honda with the Civic.
Now, just because a dealer states the US/Canada-made cars are "better" that doesn't make it fact. Cars are made by people. Given identical vendors/suppliers the japanese-made cars would be intrinsically be assembled better, at least - simply by work attitude (I've been in factories here and there). Without going into another debate, try dealing with a non vs. a union worker.
As for Honda Closing down its US/Canada shops. Well, that's not really a viable business alternative. The reason japanese makes set up manufacturing here is based mainly on trade restrictions. Business is first, "quality" second.
So what does mdriver really drive? A Honda or a Hyundai? or both?
I've owned my GLS for 13 months and have had a very enjoyable ownership experience. Take at look at the Hyundai Elantra and the Elantra GT boards if you would like to see comments from other long-term owners who have had an enjoyable experience.
>>> Every trade magazine I know of gives all Hyundai's a black mark (thumbs down). <<<
Which trade mags would those be? I have not yet seen a "thumbs down" review of the current generation Elantra. Not from Car and Driver, which gave the Elantra a very positive review earlier this year. Not from AutoWeek, which just gave the Elantra GT a glowing review. I just read another positive review of the GT in today's Minneapolis Star-Tribune. Even Consumer Reports says the Elantra is competitive with the best small sedans. BTW, they do not say that "reliability is still horrendous." In fact, they rank the '01 Elantra as "below average" in predicted reliability--but not "horrendous"--that would be a black dot, wouldn't it?. Interestingly, the reliability of the latest Civic generation seems to have slipped, as CR ranks it only "average" in predicted reliability and it has been recalled three times already--very unusual for a Honda. (The '01 Elantra has had one recall.)
Bottom line is that the Civic is a very good small car but is slipping in attributes such as reliability, while the Elantra has developed into a very good small car also and is catching up in reliability while offering plusses like an exceptional warranty and, yes, even Michelins and heated fold-away mirrors.
Also, there aren't just a few of us who are discovering that Hyundai does not stand for junk. Read other forums and you will see how many happy owners there are. Even car enthusiast magazines are coming around. Here's a quote from Car and Driver about the XG350: "There's a sense of deja vu about this car - solidly constructed, fairly priced, and fully equipped. Japanese cars built their reputations that way, remember?". Seems to me that more and more people are comparing Hyundai quality to Japanese cars. They still have some catching up to do, but they definitely deserve a lot more respect then you are leading everyone to believe.
Unfortunately the Civic owner on this board only gripe about the rear suspension (it's not perfect, but it's not bad). The Civic is very well designed. I race cars as a hobby and have been to a number of advanced driving schools and find the Civic to perform well for its intended purpose - It's not a BMW. I had a 98 Civic and the truth is I probably prefer that car over the 01, but not by much. Further, I enjoy the extra interior room and improved safety.
Maybe, because the Civic is such a good car there is little else to discuss but I had to vent.
So let's talk about Civics, and leave the discussions of Civics vs. Elantras to that forum, Elantras in general to its two forums, and entry-level cars in general to the Low-End Cars forum.
Fuel Economy: The Accord gets 26/32 (23/30 auto) with a stick and it has 150 hp and more weight to tow around. The Civic Si has 160 and gets 25/30, I believe. The 180 horse VW Jetta 1.8T (5-sp) gets 25/31...the Camry 4-cyl auto gets 23/32...etc, etc. 25/33 is nothing to ride home about in a 140-hp car of that size. Among other 5-sp small cars- the Civic EX, the Protege LX 2.0, the Neon (standard spec), the Corolla, the Lancer, the SL2, the Elantra & the Focus 2.0 Zetec, the Protege has the worst mileage at 28 combined mpg. Next is the Elantra at 29, then the Lancer at 29.5, the Neon & Sentra at 31, the Focus at 32, the SL2 at 32.5, the Civic EX at 34.5, & the Corolla at 36.5. Of course, if you throw in the Nubira & Sephia, as well as the 2.0 Jetta/Golf, not to mention the Impreza (guzzler!), it doesn't look so bad. But given that the cars I listed are the main competition...
Emissions- The non-CA Sentras are LEV, not ULEV. Finally, (weak point here), the natural gas Civic GX is SULEV. Any of y'all got one of them? :~)
Performance- I was unaware of Autoweek's testing. I was using C/D's 8.9 figure, which dumb now that I think abot it, as their Elantra was an automatic. Anyway, 8.0 is about right- the Sentra SE does it in like 7.7 with the same # of horses. It doesn't really matter much, as the Elantra's greater torque would probably make its power more useful and usable to the average driver than the Civic's anyway.
Crash tests: There is much difference between the Elantra's "Poor" rating and the Civic's "Best Pick (i.e. Good) rating. Yes, it did they similarly well in government testing. But, in my book, that's not enough. I'll put it like this: if something does well in the Institute's testing, it does well in government testing. That's not true the other way around; when it comes to safety, I don't play games, and I therefore give more credit to the more strenuous test.
As for the Lancer- The LS model is automatic only. I wanted a stick-shift and ABS- that combo is unavailable in the Lancer.
Thanks... and I'm in Columbus, OH