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Comments
I don't see VW losing money on every oil change by giving us synthetic oil changes for $22.95. They're basically forced to give 5w-30.
-Craig
Anyone have one yet, and how is the drive?
Is there a W8 board yet?
-Craig
Although I have not seen a W8 board, there are other boards focused on VW and the B5 that may provide additional insight.
Cheers,
- Ray
A very happy W8 owner at almost 8,000 miles . . .
I was reviewing APR's website and noticed a statement that said "[because of APR chip encryption]...all APR software is undetectable to a dealers VAG diagnostic tool."
Does anyone have experience with this? I want the HP/torque upgrade but don't want a warranty issue.
Also APR anounced the release of new passat chips including a 93 octane chip that delivers 214hp/247ft. lbs torque and a 100 octane chip delivering 230hp/250ft.lbs torque.
Finally, I've noticed a huge range in prices for aftermarket alloy wheels. Like BBS at $300 each versus American Racing or Alessios for $150/each. Is there much difference? What is the difference? The lesser wheels look just as nice and can carry the same tires. Any advice would be most appreciated. Basically, what i'm after is sticky road grip without spending $3k. $1,200 with wheels and tires is what i'm hoping for...is this possible? (Sumimoto performance tires seem cheap and well reviewed).
thx.
Granted, the safe thing to do is either nothing, or a second ECU, but i'm attempting a cost/benefit approach to this thing.
Thx.
This is very basic stuff that any importer, exporter or freight forwarder can verify.
I have heard the statement that mixing synths it is bad idea from several Ch E types. The reason is that synthetics are engineered compounds which, unless tested together, cannot be guaranteed to work together. Will anyone dispute that it is a bad idea to run different weight oils together ?? This is another premise that I buy into for several reasons:
When exposed to heat, lubricating oils behave differently - we put them in our engine to get between the moving metal parts and reduce / eliminate friction. The smaller the molecule, the better they do the job. But what if when we mix them, they bond to each other and become bigger molecules ? Then they may not work.
That being said, I agree with outrun that when one drains the oil it doesn't all drain out. There is some contamination from the previous / old oil. I am sure that all manufacturers have tested for this situation when converting from dino oil to synth, since dino oil molecules are not radically different from each other.
I would guess that synth oil molecules could be radically different from brand to brand, and I'm not allowing my engine to be the test bed.
I would be very suprised if lets say, brand X tested compatability with every other synthetic brand out there. The cost would be prohibitive. Would / could brand X say they were compatable ?
Yes, because it could mean lost sales if they didn't, and as long as no one files a lawsuit they get away with it.
I don't believe most manufacturer's claims without secondary data to back it up.
Gator
Anyway, how about those groovy Passats? "Edmunds Editor's most wanted for 2003!"
These are contractual terms which dictate at which point legal rights/liabilities pass between parties to a transaction, and accordingly, which state, country or province has legal jurisdiction over the transaction.
-Craig
Unless you opt for the "switch" feature, which lets you revert back to the "stock" settings. It would then be more difficult to detect, but it's still not fool proof. There are two ways for them to find out:
1. Open up the ECU cover and see the ECU itself, along with the nice "APR" logo. While a normal tech (or anyone at a dealership for that matter) can't legally open up the ECU box, a regional rep (if on site) can. And, the dealership (without the regional rep) can ask you permission to open up the ECU box. If you answer no, they'll be suspicious. If you answer yes, well, they'll see your little surprise.
2. If they try to "flash" you with the latest and greatest ECU software version, the APR chip is going to reject it, as it can't be overwritten with a VAG COM. When this flash gets rejected, they'll know something is up. Then they'll ask you permission to open the ECU box up. See above for the possible answers.
If you are concerned with the warranty, you should get a spare ECU. And they aren't $1000. "Only" about $600-$700 according to GIAC (http://www.giacusa.com). That's a small price to pay when things ARE going to break with a chip (coil pack, diverter valve, oil leaks, etc.).
-Craig
I wanna get a chip badly, but I am afraid of getting my warranty voided. Also, I don't have the extra money for another ECU right now. That's why my car is stock right now.
And I talked to a shop foreman at a VW dealership about chipping not too long ago. He said that they know, no matter how well you try to hide that chip. They will find it. Not worth it to me right now. Since I have 25K already, I will wait until the warranty expires and get chipped, then get a powertrain warranty aftermarket for the car.
Is the VW dealership going to void my warranty when I put on safer wheels/tires instead of the undersized, underperforming crud that comes stock? I couldn't believe the excrutiating HOWLS of pain those lame Contis made trying to hold the road on my test drive, and I've heard the stock Michelins are just as bad.
Maybe I SHOULD have forgotten about resale value, style and class and gone for a Subie WRX...If only I could bag it's face!
Modifying a car's parameters could result in increased emissions, more frequent air filter changes, more frequent oil changes, or a load of other things that we didn't think of. Even transmission shifting algorythms are controlled by the chip.
Given how VW can easily reprogram their chips for better perfomance, the question falls on why not?
For a 1.8T, it's probably a matter of economics. It will cannibalize V6 sales. But it may also require more frequent changes of the car's consumeables, or even increase emissions beyond their tolerated specs.
For a V6, it's probably got a lot more to do with the tradeoffs listed earlier.
So why does VW void your warranty for tampering with the brains of the car? Because the car is tested with the current settings with parameters that trades off some performance for longevity/maintainability. Make your car run outside of their engineered specs, the parts will break sooner rather than later.
If you sold me a computer, and I went in and overclocked the system bus to get a faster CPU speed - resulting in the premature death of my sound card, and/or CPU, should I expect you to pay the cost of my folly? No. And neither should VW - and that is the simple rationale behind voiding the warranty.
Want more power and acceleration? Get something else, the Passat is a FAMILY SEDAN. Not Speed Racer's car!
Also, I was only kidding about my post above. Lighten up!
But he didn't drive a VW either. He said the warranty wasn't voided because he didn't change some parts - just added to them.
I understand your comment on the car being wimpy on the HP end, and I wholeheartedly agree. And yes, I took it as a joke - the last sentence wasn't aimed at you, it was aimed at others who want a sports car.
For instance, if you chip and your strut goes bad, they can't not fix the strut because of the chip.
Mliong...I hate to sound unappreciative...but I found your reply trite and condescending. While, in a vacuum, you actually made a few salient points, you didn't read my post. I never questioned VW's position as to chip upgrades, I rhetorically questioned why a US VW Dealership should care! But now that you bring it up, first, APR has taken into account the engine/transmission dynamics you mentioned. Second, I have no sympathy for VW detuning the 1.8T engine so as not to negatively impact V6 or Audi sales, just as I have no sympathy for VW's role in the [non-permissible content removed] movement (although I acknowledge they've taken steps to make reparations for their reprehensible involvement in the holocaust). They make nice cars...,doesn't make them good people.
As for my choice of vehicle,
not all of us have $40k+ to spend on a Bimmer that can accommodate 4 passengers and satisy a "spirited" driver's needs. I don't need you to tell me what I should buy, thank you.
The Passat CAN be a family sedan, but that doesn't mean it can't also be used for sport, just as sex can be used for procreation, but that's not necessarily most people's primary objective when they engage in it!
(Also, i'm not sure your "Jets" reference was illustrative of anything, but it sure was flashy!)
Ty
also don't understand this voiding warranty business. aftermarket chips, filters and suspensions do not void the warranty. a dealer can blame a mechanical failure on the aftermarket products and refuse to perform warranty work. your recourse is to sue and the burden of proof rests on the dealer. yes this is a hassle and enough reason for some not to modify, but it's not the same as throwing away your warranty once you deviate from stock.
I was trying to point out that there are a lot of factors taken into consideration for the settings for the ECU. I can't tell you why VW didn't go with the better HP programming - it could be greed, or technical, or both.
I'm confident that APR, or whatever chip modder took all these variables into account - as they should, I was just pointing out that these changes might come at the expense of something else - more frequent oil changes, or whatever.
It's not my business telling people what car to get, that is an individual choice, I was merely reminding them that the Passat IS designed as a family sedan with a sporty feel - NOT a sports car. To expect it to be like one is not realistic. I also did not mention that a $40K+ BMW will solve your problems - you came to that conclusion yourself.
Lastly, dredging up the Holocaust is waaaay off topic and inappropriate. VW has worked hard to make up for their mistakes - and slamming the curent generation of VW workers is unfair. If you want to rag on companies with less than stellar ethics, try Coca Cola, Nestle, Pepsico, {Fill in any large company here}.
The point of my post was simple.
1) Passat not equal Sports Car.
2) Mod chips require some tradeoffs NOT designed into car - so tampering with it will usually void the warranty.
Sorry if it came across in a condescending manner, I will make it a point to better phrase my posts in the future.
Newer VW's has a single channel that runs to all/most electrical parts of the car. This also includes the radio. There is a wire (I think it's green), that if disconnected (when an aftermarket radio is installed), will render any VAG COM useless, and will actually cause most of the ones VW uses to fry (sends too much voltage). This little wire has to be terminated so it will bypass that part of the channel. Nice, huh?
So this is why VW is concerned with chipping (affects electronics), and it also affects the wear and tear on other engine components. Water pump failure? Oh, because of the chip. Coil pack went back? Chip. Oil filter fell off? Chip. See where this is going?
But, there's no way they can tell you run a chip when you're not getting service and swap in a normal chip when you DO get service. That's the only 100% way around it.
-Craig
I did hear something weird about it, but I think it centered around having to swap out all the components if you want to switch off of the Monsoon system - speakers and such. Don't know why, of it's true.
I owe you an apology. I just read my post to you and felt like a heel. It went overboard. I know your intentions were good. My "hot" response was more venting as the result of something that happened at work this a.m. than anything you said.
I agree with you as to all the Corporate monsters you listed. VW has taken steps in the right direction. If I didn't think so, I wouldn't have purchased one.
Thanks for the follow-up post.
Ty
Don't worry about it, we all have those days!
mliong
-Craig
This was explained very well about 30 messages back.
Stop trying to confuse the issue. This has NOTHING to do with Passats. Except that they come over here on cargo ships as well.
-Craig
Gosh, whatever happened to Keeping it Simple...
Depending on the transit method, the damages to the goods in transit are determined if it is FOB or not - so it's a means of assigning who get's screwed with the transit damage.
ABS, ESP, OBDII, power this and power that, engine control modules with feedback from a dozen different sensors, $1,200 ABS modulators, coil packs instead of distributors, etc.
Even low-end cars have at least some of this stuff. Yeah, "keeping it simple" is not in any manufacturer's equation now.
But now I'm getting nit picky.
-Craig