Oldsmobile Intrigue

vcjumper

1245-6148

Same part for front and back

vcjumper

Not much of a change in straight line comfort. A lot better grip in the corners, and they don't squeal as soon. Better in rain and snow too.

dindak

You are right there also. I think that higher grade materials should be used, especially for Buicks and Pontiacs. Add a few hundred dollars in price if need be. Build it and they will come GM! I think Lutz and the boys will do it.

ketch

Lutz has it right, esp. as to Interiors, attempting to match the best Europeans, like VW.
Do that alone, and its a great leap. Love my car's interior, arguably the most European of the GM's, but lots of improvement need to compare to the best in class.

evandro

I beg to differ. VW's interior fit and finish are just not up to their reputation, or, if you've been around long enough, they are. I've seriously considered a Passat V6 and the lack of refinement in the interior materials (particularly the flimsy, noisy arm rest at the front) are at Chrysler's level (I also have a Stratus). The general ergonomics in the car were terrible. And, definitely, those chrome trims around the gauges didn't charm me at all, but their glare did annoy me! They seemed cheesy and overdone to me, but, of course, that's only me...

Yes, Audi has better materials, but it costs $10G more than any equivalent high volume car. I don't think that GM will go there.

evandro

I agree with you that more is better if the price is right. But I have the impression that, to Lutz, it's an either-or choice. Witness Chryslers and Dodges... :^/

ab348

I don't know if I like what I hear in that article. Decontenting is what got GM in trouble way back when around the time of the Accord's initial appearance. I'd hate to see them cheapen the cars up a la Chrysler. I think he could do a lot to the interiors by simply ditching the mouse-fur gray they seem so in love with.

One thing jumps out at me on that list -- OnStar. I don't know anybody who buys a GM car because of Onstar. I might know several who would buy a GM car if the style and interior design was better. But they could care less about Onstar.

What's wrong with this picture? The reason is that GM has invested a pile of cash into Onstar and it has the promise of being a moneymaker for them with subscription and maintenance fees, if they can get the hardware into enough cars to snare some unsuspecting folks. But I think it is not where the emphasis ought to be.

evandro

In as much as I am thrilled about On*Star, I honestly don't picture myself using it too often. It's free in the 1^st, but after getting only $6 less a year in insurance costs because of its tracking capabilities, I find it hard to justify $200 a year for it...

I think you nailed a pretty good trade-off here.

swagled

I don't remember the specifics, but I read sometime ago that GM is obligated to put On*Star into "so many vehicles" each year. Lutz might even agree in private that it's a frill customers don't really care for. But since GM is under contract to supply it, they may as well put on a "happy face"....

teo

OnStar is currently being offered in some "Non-GM" vehicles such as:

Lexus (Lexus, however, does not use the OnStar moniker, instead they call it "Lexus-Net")

Audi

and Acura. The 2002 3.5 RL offers OnStar as standard equipment

one2one

I'm a bit worried. I liked Lutz at first and still do. But some of the things he said he'd ax I think are a bit much. Specifically pollen filters and less storage spaces. There are millions of people who suffer from allergies. While I am not one of them, I know some that do. And pollen filters are a lifesaver to them, both figuratively and literally. As far as storage space goes, my 95 Camry had pretty much zero storage space. You don't really miss it until you have to use it. I think these things are more important than "jewel-like precision on instruments". Exactly what is that anyway?

I agree with the comment that GM cars have more content than most. That's one of the things that annoyed me when I brought the new Intrigue. Things that eariler years had were dropped. My biggest beef is heated mirrors. But then look at an Impala LS. Not only does it have things the Intrigue dropped, it has things the 'Trigue doesn't even offer! I think that gives the Impala a leg up on Accords and Camrys after the "quality" thing is put to rest.

I guess we'll get our first glimpse on the upcoming Grand Prix.

ab348

Isn't Onstar a GM development? How can they be obligated to themselves?

dindak

one2one : When do we get to see the next GP?

ab348 : Onstar should have a pay-per use option for light users. I don't see myself using it enough to warrant another monthly bill. You are right though, Onstar does not sell many cars alone.

ketch/teo : I like the Passat interior, but I'm not crazy about the Beetle, Golf and Jetta. They are good, but I like Honda interiors better. Intrigue has a great interior IMO. Buttons on the stereo and the cruise on/off are the only weak points.

lmacmil

Been reading the threads about which features are important and which aren't, based on your personal bias or sample size of 3 or 4. Let me give you a real life example of how the Big 3 do market research.

Back in about 1994, Ford started developing the replacement for the heavy duty line of pickups (F250HD and above). The held a PACE clinic in Dallas (where a crew cab, dual rear wheel pickup quite often the family vehicle). They invited hundreds of owners to bring their vehicles in and talk to Ford (and supplier) engineers about what they did or didn't like. We spent two 10 hour days talking with owners, driving their trucks, listening and recording their comments and asking unbiased questions to get their impressions. As I recall, several different areas of the vehicle were covered (brakes/steering, powertrain, HVAC, etc.)

I was there representing a brake supplier and my competition was there also. Ford sent 6 or so brake engineers. Afterwards, a market research firm summarized the results which gave Ford the information on which features were really important to actual buyers. They do this every time a new vehicle is being developed and I'm sure GM and DC (DaimlerChrysler) do the same thing. It's called the "voice of the customer."

The point is, you (or I) can't extrapolate from a sample size of 3 or 4 and expect those results to reflect what the general buying population wants.

ketch

Wasn't sure if you were responding to me or Teo, but I did mention VW's as one Interior GM might strive to emulate:

You beg to differ, and have more hands on experience, but according to nearly all press and tests I have seen here and overseas, they (VW) are considered leading edge in refinement and design. Passat included. Nevertheless, you point is well taken, having actually encountered these cars.

ketch

...and another thing...
evandro may be right as to VW interiors being flimsy too, as according to another long term test (R&T this time) all kinds of parts fell off in the first 40k or so miles, mostly from the interior. Same thing happened earlier in its ownership by R&T. They we not pleased with this of course, but chalked it up to an early build version (perhaps, but...). Made me happy I passed on a Jetta, built in the same factory south of the border.

BTW, My brother was one of the top three guys from VWoA for 30 years, and in fact warned me about the Mexican built models sold here, and why I originally passed on a Jetta. Many have already heard this here if they have been around- but guess which car he said was a standout? The Intrigue (this from a guy who owns a C4 Porsche, and either hates or loves a car, no middle of the road for him).

ketch

In my post about the flimsy VW interior- its was a New Beetle that R&T felt was an "Old Beetle" before its time. Sorry for leaving this out.

oldsman01

I like Onstar and use it sometimes(paid the extra to upgrade to the premium package) but it didn't make or break the decision to buy the Intrigue. Had the car lacked Onstar, I would have still bought it. I agree with the majority here that many GM cars are very well equipped. One of the things I like about the Intrigue is that even the most basic model has premium features like a DOHC V6, ABS brakes, four wheel disc brakes, and 16" alloy wheels. Part of the problem is that UAW has tied GM's(and Ford's) hands when it comes to outsourcing interior parts.

oldsman01

Are nothing special IMO, even the Passat. I still consider VWs "chic cars." Maybe the W-12 will change that perception in my mind.

ab348

I am less convinced about the value of these things, having been a participant. Most people really can't verbalize what they want because they have no frame of reference. In that situation people do not really act creatively. So what happens is that groupthink takes over and you get a lot of mediocrity.

From what I've read a lot of GM's product problems have been attributed to over-reliance on focus group results instead of letting the designers and engineers be creative. Remember, the original Mustang in '64 was panned by focus groups (clinics, as they were called then) because nobody could figure out what it was supposed to be since it didn't fit any known market segment at the time. Thank goodness Iacocca didn't buy their opinion.

lmacmil

Sometimes the auto makers take a risk and it's a hit (original Mustang, minivan), sometimes it's not (Edsel, Aztek). I'd say it's easier (to determine what the public wants) when upgrading an established product than when creating a new product. Obviously the tastes of this group (Intrigue owners) are not the tastes of the typical car buyer.

swagled

Well, you can consider the opposite extreme. The Toyota Echo is a really ugly little car inside and out, but it *does* have lots of little shelves and bins to put things in. If this is important to you, there are alternatives cheaper than the Intrigue.

So if a car to hold drinks was my top priority, I could have bought something else. I will admit, that the cupholders needed a little more development on the Olds. The front one isn't deep enough-- I've noticed that drinks get "pinned" to the dash when you put the car in park. And the 2nd cupholder, (the one with the rubber "tongue" on it) I won't use. It just looks too flimsy to hold a drink in place.

The Intrigue "looks" great inside. I just have to wonder how much harder it would have been to sweat these little details on a 20K car... I guess we all just want the best of everything!!

one2one

I thought I read somewhere that Chrysler (quoting from a Chrysler exec) doesn't rely on focus groups as much as GM. The article pointed out that their "focus groups" are the auto shows. They put it out there and then see what the reaction is from the public. Not that GM doesn't do this, but under Zarella, focus groups were god. Perhaps what I'm referring to doesn't apply to interior content but I'm sure corporate philosophy varies from company to company regarding the same subject (e.g. interiors, body designs, etc).

dindak

Having attended a number of focus groups (including ones for Lexus and Toyota), I can honestly say that some of the people they get in these groups are complete morons. It usually breaks down to about 1/2 the group being pretty reasonable, 1/4 being ok and the other 1/4 being in outer space with comments they make. There is almost always 1 complete wacko in every group. I'm not sure if they filter the comments from these people, but if they don't then these groups could be very misleading for a company like GM.

swagled

I got to thinking a little more about Lutz's "threat" to remove excess marketing content.

The Intrigue has a lot of cool little things my previous 3 cars didn't have. Lighted trunk, power seats, cruise, CD/cassette, climate control, power mirrors, intermittant wipers.

I like these things, but suppose all those things were moved to a higher trim level, Chrysler style. Would I still buy a good looking, *fast*, reliable car that a 6'5" guy can fit in? I think I would. I've lived without them before. And if I really needed them, I could just make myself pay for them...

I'd still expect "sensible" features like power steering and A/C to available in a base car, though.

I'm not sure if this is still true, but in the 1980's, the Mustang LX was faster than the GT because the LX didn't have all the weight-adding goodies. Sometimes a case can be made for keeping things simple.

dindak

Even the little Alero I was looking at last week for C$21K had ABS 4-wheel discs, cruise, tilt, a/c, CD and traction control. Feature packed indeed!

evandro

THAT's why I got an Alero 3 years ago, most bang for my buck in a nimble, swift package! ;^)

jgriff

Sometimes the people involved in certain focus-groups have NO real first hand knowledge of what is needed for a certain type of vehicle, ie. like asking a 20 year old single male what is really important a family car or mini-van.

I do kind of miss the Intrigue's corner turning lights.

~~ Wishing everyone a Happy & Safe Holidays ~~

dindak

Actually I agree with jgriff (for once). I like the cornering lights!!

oldsman01

My 89 Touring Sedan had them too, but the Intrigue's are by far the best I've had on a car.

one2one

I like them, too. It's funny but when I drive the Bonniville, it's wild not seeing the cornering lamps. Especially when turning onto an onramp that's in a dark corner (like the one I have to get on when I leave the in-laws) is it appreciated. The one thing I wish the Intrigue did have was a turn signal on the side. The light draws attention but drivers on either side may not know that the turn signal has been activated.

focus

wbhall - i called goodyear cdn, they said they don't offer tire insurance on oem tires. i called several goodyear dealers, price range from $9 to $24 per tire, PRO-rated. That was a good reminder as same thing happened to me last year and i paid $150 for a new tire.

b4z

I liked them too. I remember the first night i had my intrigue i was turning into a narrow alley, and they lit the whole entrance up. They was also great turning into my driveway. Our house starts at the sidewalk with a brick wall seperating the neighbor's property. The opening is only 10' wide and the cornering lamps were a great help at night.
Hope my next car has them.

dindak

I like the side turn signals also but the only sedans I've seen with them are Saabs and VWs. Seems to be a European thing. Noticed the new Windstars and Envoys have them integrated on the side mirrors which looks cool also.

swagled

These probably do a lot more for safety than the stupid mandated 3rd brake light. Plus they encourage drivers to use their signals.

jg28

I just took my 2000 Intrigue (3.5L, now 26K) on a road trip from Salt Lake to San Diego and back. She was great, even through a blinding snowstorm for 450 miles, dense fog north of Las Vegas and she even served as a temporary hotel because they'd closed the freeway south of Vegas for snow/ice. Averaged about 26-28MPG. (Keep in mind folks that out here in the west we're going from 500 ft elevation to 6000 ft in less than 20 miles and back down and back up. So I think that's pretty exceptional gas mileage. I only got about 25 when I went to Phoenix last year so the K&N might help with gas mileage too. I also noticed that passing was even easier and seemed like even less of a big deal. I attribute that to the K&N filter. I highly recommend you all get one (33-2086). I thought I'd see a big difference in horsepower at sea level but I didn't (we're almost a mile high here in Salt Lake at about 4200 ft. I tested the speed limiter a couple times and was disappointed when it quit at 109mph. The Intrigue is deceptively smooth. Several times, I'd look down and find we were going 90-100mph but it only felt like about 70. Her passing ability is amazing on road trips like that. I loved being down in California traffic and having that passing power. Truly exhilarating. It's true what they say, she begs to go fast. You know, although I'd never go faster than 110, I'd still like to know that the speed limiter isn't there. Who was talking about the chip again? (Wicked smile). Anyway, on hills, she's truly addictive when it comes to speed. He had a hard time admitting it, I think, but my friend (who owns a Porsche) would drop hints at how fun she was to drive and how much power she has.

jg28

This is from long ago but I wanted to get back to you. I have the strut tower braces from GTP store and couldn't be happier. I think the cheaper one wouldn't be as good but you may want to consider it if you can't stand the power steering pump noise. It does touch the power steering pump hose and, thus, broadcasts the power steering pump sound, making a distinct whining at low speeds when you add gas, even though I've wrapped the bar with sound insulation tape. I'm pretty picky with sounds and very observant. Perhaps you wouldn't even notice or wouldn't care. I think the stbs make a significant difference in handling. Bumps are crisper yet softer. At the same time, though, I also added the aftermarket sway bars. So I'm not sure which improvement is which. I have noticed a BIG difference in corners and bumps. Cornering is dang near flat no matter how hard I push it. Put some Pilot XGT H4s on those, and you have an honest to goodness cornering machine. BTW, has anyone tried the Potenza 930s? They have higher ratings than the pilots and wondered about trying them for quietness to reduce the "tire whine" Maybe the Pilots reduce that anyway?

For ANYONE HAVING HEADLIGHT DIMMING PROBLEMS: Tell the dealer there is a TSB about the problem. It INSTRUCTS them to REPLACE the alternator with a REDESIGNED one. If you all need the bulletin number, let me know, I'd BE GLAD to post it here again (although I've already posted it here before I think). DON'T LET THEM GIVE YOU GRIEF ABOUT IT, IT'S A TSB FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE!

swagled

So far my headlight flicker has not been too much of a bother. (2000 GL) I may just leave it alone until I get close to the warranty expriation. Even then I might not bother with it, assuming it gets no worse.

After a year of driving, and 22K on my Intrigue, I'd have to say the one thing that still annoys me (enough to tempt me to think about leaving it in the shop) is that crappy windshield distorion.

It's right at the left edge of my windshield and I notice it very often when I turn left. (And there's a second one above it, I sometimes notice too.)

Brakes all still good.

oldsman01

I'm starting to notice it more now so the problem must be getting worse. I'll probably schedule an appointment within the next week or so.

lmacmil

General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people) Vice Quote: "Chairman Bob Lutz, who said last week that there is "turmoil and change" in GM's future product lineup, has reportedly killed plans for the Buick Bengal, the roadster that drew widespread praise when it was unveiled as a concept car earlier this year. The Bengal, inspired by golfer and Buick spokesman Tiger Woods, was the latest in a number of concept vehicles from Buick that were trotted out as part of GM's plans to turn around the struggling brand."

jjpowell2

My dealer did have the TSB and replaced the alternator with the new redesigned model. Tonight the lights dimmed 5 times within 1/4 mile. What TSB are you referring to? Has it been issued since April 2001 as that's when our 3rd "redesigned" alternator was installed. Aside from this problem we have no complaints with our 2001 GL!!

dindak

I think that was a mistake! The Bengal was the first cool Buick car I've ever seen. Lutz better have something else up his sleeve because Buick really needed a flagship car like that. Right now, the only Buick I would consider is the Rendezvous.

I heard that the Plymouth Prowler is dead also, which means the Plymouth name will finally die with it. Very sad.

dindak

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/011220-3.htm

one2one

I'm a bit confused. I just viewed the Cadillac video for StabiliTrack and I already have seen the PCS video. Now, perhaps I'm not viewing things properly, but it would seem to me that a stability system that uses all 4 wheels (PCS in the Intrigue) would be a better system than one that uses only the front wheels. In all cars with StabiliTrack and the Aurora's version of PCS, only the front brakes are used. It would seem to me that the better system would be implemented on the more upscale car (Aurora and Caddys). Using this reasoning, Is PCS on the Intrigue inferior to that used on Cadillacs? My opinion is that the Intrigue's potential to use ANY of the 4 wheels provides the chance to recover from dangerous situations better than 2 wheels.

Man! I wish there was a GL on the lot with PCS when I was looking!!!

swagled

That's why so far I've taken a lackadaisical attitude about getting a new alternator. We've had people on the forum even get 3rd ones installed.

Who knows, maybe when most Intrigues are nearing 100K miles, there will be many failing alternators and the gov't will order a safety recall.

I do know that I will get that replacement air dam someday. I get tired of all that scraping. It really cheapens the feel of the car.

vinney2

Dealer just "lubed" shaft with kit . Said they had 5 to do.
It appears to have fixed the problem.
R strut was replaced at 5K
Just hope the stuff holds together, Still have 1 yr of warrenty on 1999 GLS (only 17K)
Tires brakes etc seem fine.
Wife and I love car (except front end wackos).

cabowabodude

Hello, I am new to the group! I just bought my 99 intrigue in April. It had 11.7K on it, now it has 46K (Yes I do put alot of miles on) I got the car for 13K, that is the reason I bought it. Where else can you get a 1 year old car with 11K on the speed-o. So here is my question, as you can see I am over my mileage, and I am starting to have problems with my lights (Flickering alot) will the TSB'S take care of a KNOWN problem. Even though I am over on miles? Also I don't know if anyone can help on this. My friend had something replaced on her car, that was causing the car not to start (it would turn over, but not start, some sort of fuel problem). Now my car is doing the same thing. If these are known problems and they will not fix them, then I guess I will have to unload the car!

oldsman01

Funny I mentioned the flickering lights when I posted yesterday, as last night they really started acting up. Driving home, I could noticed considerable dimming and the instrument panel lights would dim slightly as well. In fact at one point when I passed an oncoming car, he flashed his lights at me so it most have been noticeable to him. Reading some of these posts about folks on their third alternators, I'm wondering if it's really the alternator or if there is a problem with the headlamp control. The service manual doesn't have much information on flickering lights. This is starting to bug, I hope the dealer is able to fix this in one trip. I like this car alot and maybe it's just the fact that this problem is bothering me, but last night I started wondering if I should have just bought a Cadillac or an Aurora instead. Will keep you guys posted.

On another topic, I was behind an Altima 3.5SE today. We were at a red light and when it turned green, he took off. I stayed right behind him and I noticed that you could see a little smoke coming from the exhaust. This is something I've noticed about Maximas for years when they are accelerating hard. I've glanced in the rearview mirror before while doing a full throttle run and never noticed any smoke from the Intrigue's exhaust. Nothing big, but a quirk IMO.

lmacmil

I'm not in the "modulation" area at Bosch so my knowledge of ABS, traction control, and stability systems is not great. However, I will speculate that without knowing more about the systems, one shouldn't assume that a 4-wheel system is automatically "better" than a 2-wheel system.

I think the Olds systems activates the brakes only. A more sophisticated system would be integrated with engine management. Software algorithms can be optimized for the two wheel systems and could probably make them as effective as a 4 wheel system at lower cost. Anyway, that my guess.

oldsman01

To my knowledge, the Cadillac system not only applies the brakes, but also adjusts shock/strut damping and reduced engine output. The Intrigue's system basically applies the brakes on the wheel needed to maintain control.