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Comments
drmay : I love the look of the spoiler also. Makes the car look sporty IMO. My wife pushed for it and I'm happy we have it now.
Oh, OK. I do know that Edmunds had steering problems (strange noises, etc.) when they long-term tested an Intrigue, but I didn't recall whether they actually had to replace the whole rack at such a high cost. The many previous problems with ours have been annoying, but relatively minor.
-Andrew L
The 98 & 99 had a problem with defective intermediate steering shaft. They corrected it with part number e7700-2e FP #26078302. I had mine replaced 6/00 under warranty no questions asked. Olds was completley aware of this defect. Their was no recall but they were fixing it without any hassle. I dont know if this was the same problem you had with yours. Im surprised you havent had the warped rotors problem yet. I had mine refaced front & back at 14000. I read at least 50 complaints on this site about warped rotors back in 99 $ 2000.
I don't think we've had that part replaced. My dad told me he just had to have the entire steering rack replaced, but he's at home and I'm at college right now, so I didn't get to scrutinize the repair bill and see exactly what they did. I don't think we've had any problems with warped rotors. We have had several electrical problems (wire fell off alternator causing no-start, power window failed, instrument panel failed), a loose front bumper cover that rattled, a loose hood that rattled, various interior and exterior trim parts that fell off, exterior door molding that continuously slides out of place and jams the door, etc.
-Andrew L
Im only a lawmen when it comes to autos. I dont know much about mechanical parts and what they do. you mentioned something about the steering leaking. Off the top of my head I dont know why a steering shaft would leak. Perhaps there is some kind of grease packing inside the shaft. Can someone on this site who is more knowingly help us out.
The steering rack was leaking power steering fluid. That steering shaft issue is a separate concern, I believe. Like I said, I haven't had the opportunity to look at the repair bill and see exactly what was replaced, but from what my dad told me, it sounds like there was a PS fluid leak from the rack.
-Andrew L
Next door at the mother Chevy/Olds store, though, they have another 2001 for the same price. It is Ruby red with beige cloth and a sunroof, no chromes, no spoiler. About the same mileage. The interior looks much more friendly than the mouse-fur gray. What would a 2001 GL with that equipment have been worth new a year ago?
BTW: down the road the Pontiac dealer had both the new Aztek (still ugly, just less so with a lot of the charcoal plastic cladding having disappeared) and the Vibe on the lot. I sort of like the Vibe, to be honest. All 3 were silver so I don't know how they would look in other shades but I liked what I saw, especially the interior. Aren't the mechanicals Toyota?
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I don't think C$20K is too much. That's asking, but I'm sure you could get it for $18-19K. New GL will run you about $27-28K +freight after negotiations.
BIG hockey game at 3pm. Go Canada go!!
This hockey game in an hour is huge to Canadians, thats for sure. If we win it will be like every city here won a superbowl.
I cant dispute you about incorrect tightening of lug nuts causing rotor warp because it will. However all the intrigue owners of 98,99,& 2000 that were complaining about this problem on this site in 99 & 2000 were still under warranty and were going back to the olds dealer for service/repair. Do you mean to say that oldsmobile was overthighting the lug nuts. I dont think that all these customers were running to sears to have the tires rotated while they were still on the 3 year warranty. What Im trying to say this warped rotor problem was a documented widespread General Motors problem and some how they managed to aviod a recall. However my rotors were refaced at 14000 front & back on warranty. I complained to oldsmobile. They gave me a claim number and said that if the rotors need to be replaced even when im off warranty depending on the milage they would make a adjustment on the cost. This is because they knew they had a wide spread problem with disc pads & rotors.
Nice to see all the hockey gold come back home. I'm not the biggest hockey fan even though my home town Kingston is a total hockey city, but this was big for me. Whoo hooo!
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Basically, it says that rotor warping is caused by wrong lut nugs tightening. However, it is developing much later - as much as 6-8,000 miles after rotation, if I remember the numbers right.
According to the TSB, the GM policy is to replace rotors for free under warranty on condition that the wheels were serviced at GM dealers only. It is easy for GM to find the technician who performed the service: all records are on computers. GM informs the dealership about the problem and requires retraining the technician to do it right in future.
No luck if the tires were rotated by a third party.
I went to NHTSA's web site and filled in the form to get this looked into. Has anyone else done this yet?
Probably so, but one other voice can't hurt.
A I hubcaps, I don't know what the issue was with your 98 that resulted in the rack being replaced, but for me it was because there was no power assist at low rpm. After a lot of hassle (intermediate shaft replaced, several racks) they ended up replacing the PS pump, and it's been fine since. Incidentally, the $900 seems like a good deal. The first quote from my dealer was $1,400. It went down to about $900 when I complained- the $1,400 was the retail price, $900 the GM warranty price- and I got them to go 50-50 on that. I've put about 10K miles on it since, and it's ok so far.
One last note, I had my Blazer in to a Sears for tire rotation, and they actually used a torque wrench. I was impressed, especially given the price (free).
The point I was trying to make is that the problem was caused by defective rotors/pads to begin with. All these complaints were still on the 3 year warranty when this widespread problem was happining and most people go to dealer service shop for service until the warranty runs out. So GM wants me to beleive that all the GM shops were over ttightening the lug nuts and causing this problem. I dont buy this. It had to be that the rotors/pads were defective to begin with. I would like to read the TSB reference your speaking of if you could locate it. Thanks
http://service.gm.com/gmtechlink/html/Bullnl.htm
Not sure, though. I have an impression, that the TSB was issued earlier than December 2000. Possibly, read it in *.pdf format:
http://service.gm.com/techlink/html_en/monthly2000.html
george92: I understand your point. However, I remember the GM point too. Personally, I have no training, experience, nor education to provide my own opinion.
http://service.gm.com/techlink/html_en/pdf/200003-en.pdf#dst11
TSB 00-05-22-002; Brake Rotor Warranty Service Procedure; 1995-2000 Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks
There was some discussion on this board a few weeks ago about oil life sensors. That last link had a good article on the subject, straight from the General's mouth. Thanks again!
Thanks for the reference,but how come when I get to the 00-05-22-002 brake rotor waranty line it doesnt read anything about rotors. This is starting to sound like a conspiracy. Only kidding Ididnt take my zoloft today. By the way I proberly know less then you about autos. This tech link looks great now I know you know more than I do. Please tell me why there was nothing written under the Brake Rotor warranty heading. Thanks.
http://www.brakeinfo.com/html/vibration.html
http://www.dba.com.au/tech/tech01.htm
http://www.procutinternational.com/html/awards/gm_review.html
Immigrated in 1996, and learned to drive already in USA, in age of 45. Never had car nor driving license on old country. Neither my parents, nor close relatives.
I am trying to compensate this somewhat by reading. However, reading is a poor substitute to hands-on experience.
About TSB. As I said, I remember reading it on Internet, but do not remember where exactly. Somebody who read it posted what he knows.
To the best of my understanding, the TSB themself are proprietary. GM and other manufacturers are charging auto shops and other for access to this information.
There is a Internet service, who is selling it for a modest fee, something like $20 or so. However, I am too cheap for this...
Fortunately, the TSB headings are available all around Internet. You can go to your friendly dealer with the number 00-05-22-002, and ask him to show the text. Most of dealers would like to help, especially to a good customer.
Even better, if you have a friend with access to the database.
http://www.procutinternational.com/html/awards/gm_review.html
Let me quote it:
- If the customer had the wheel service done outside of our dealer network. normally GM would not offer any assistance.
Thank you so much!
Thank you for introducing me to the GM tech link. I never thought I could get that kind of info online. Ive been playing around with the techlink for the last hour, love it. Id like to know how Imacmil got it so fast. I just got my computer in Jan and Im still learning how to surf. I use to go to the library. Thanks again Yurakm.
It sounds like your having the same problem I had with 98 intrigue at 14000 miles. As I stated eariler I brought it back and complained and they refaced front and back rotors and new pads on the rear. No charge on the warranty. I called olds and complained that rotors shouldnt be getting warped so soon. They gave me a claim number and said that If I have the same problem when I off the warranty and if I have reasonable low milage they will eat some of the cost for new rotors.
You should go back now while your still on warranty. I read the bulletin and in my mind why all of sudden rotors are getting warped from a little of over thighting and before 98 you never heard of rotors warping after only 7000 8000 9000 10000 miles and then happening a second and third time. I was given one explantion by someone at the dealer repair shop which made some kind of sense to me. He said that around 97,98 they were ordered to stop making rotors with asbestos. This would explain why the rotor might get overheated and warped. But why is that only GM midsize cars had this problem. Did the rest of the auto industry continue to us asbestos? Imacmil Take your car back and tell them your car is vibrating at high speeds they will either replace them or reface them and you wont have that problem anymore hopefully. Most of the posts on this site are always complaining about their dealer, they wont do this they wont do that. Every complainet I made while I was under warranty they fixed no questions asked. Maybe the dealers in new york aim to please.
I won't use just any Sears; I go out of my way to use the one I do. This one has a window between the service bay and the waiting area. They do torque the lugs.... Whether they are the right lbs is another story. But I used them for the first Intrigue and never had problems in 80,000 miles so I'll keep using *this* Sears. Plus, it's free :-)
Regarding rotors, they are made of cast iron. I don't believe there is asbestos in cast iron. Pads used to contain asbestos but that was phased out in the late 80s/early 90s. I work for a major brake manufacturer and DTV and LRO are big problems that we are trying to solve. Brakes complaints are typically one of the top 2 or 3 warranty complaints for the OEs.
When I filled up the math said I did 27.9MPG. While that might not sound impressive, it's actually pretty good. That is the result of 10 hours of highway driving and 2 days of cruising thru Providence. I filled up once before going up and once on the way back down. Considering that the EPA says city driving is about 10MPG lower than highway, 27.9 means the highway driving was was over 30MPH. Not bad for a high performing V-6.
My buddy has a new Max and drove my Intrigue around town. He pushed that car like he was a madman. After taking off from a light, he made the comment that "this car doesn't like to go slow" and "wants to go fast". So I said, "Push it". And push it he did! We jumped on I-95 where the speed limit is 50.... We were doing 85, speeding up thru the bends in the highway. He said, "It hugs the corners really well." He thoroughly enjoyed driving it. So I asked him if he was ready to get one. If it wasn't for the fact that his Max has 250 horses, he just got it (and his wife told him he couldn't :-) and he doesn't like "bloated American cars", he would have bought one.
That shows the stupidity of the execs in GM. Here is a guy that doesn't like American cars in general, owns a car that has (on paper at least) more power than the Intrigue and yet LOVED driving it. The formula worked; the marketing didn't. I only hope that GM doesn't make the same stupid mistakes that they did with Olds and gets the quality issues nailed.
dallas75
dallas75
I think the story of improper tightening of lug nuts warping rotors is a convenient excuse to get out of replacing them under warranty. Some time ago there was a link to a web site that discussed problems casting the rotors resulting in residual stresses that would cause warping. This makes much more sense.
Last time I had my tires rotated at Olds, I watched the technician use his air wrench to tighten the wheels with NO torque wrench in sight. I questioned him on this and he said that the air tool was kind of weak and thats why he uses it on the wheels!
Thanks for correcting me , it was the pads that use to contain asbestos. I agree with ian 18 the problemstarted with defective casting of rotors resulting in residual stresses that would cause warping since there no longer was asbestos in the pads.
Thanks you hit the nail right on the head. The tightening of lug nuts was a big excuse to cover their butt. defective casting of rotors and no asbestos in the pads is the more likly reason to cause warping. And they manage to get away without a recall.
dallas75
Anyway I just called GMAC. They said no dice, if I want it I have to pay residual. I told them they were nuts and that they were going to end up wholesaling for less than I would pay for it. Of course, the guy on the phone was just following procedure. He was just telling me the official "line".
Anyway, I figure that by leasing the GS I saved myself $5000, over buying and selling after 3 years. Its a shame they won't negotiate, but I refuse to pay $16,000 for a car thats worth $11K.
Good luck!
Thanks- bjl
http://www.shotimes.com/brakes/part1.html