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Comments
oldsman01... I came to the same conclusion as you did on the GS. My wife and I drove the Intrigue and GS back to back twice before we decided to go with the Intrigue, for the same reasons you just stated. I don't think we would have been unhappy with the GS, and probably wouldn't have had as many warranty claims, either. But we like the Intrigue just fine. Had we known that GM was going to kill Olds, we probably would have made a different choice, however.
Yurakm... Thanks for the link!
What makes Buicks so reliable? They have the same engines and electrical componentry as Chevys and Pontiacs. Why aren't Chevys and Pontiacs as reliable? Buick interiors are outdated and ugly. While they may be functional, I think Oldsmobile has the best of both worlds... modern AND functional. An elderly couple at my gym has a Regal and when parked next to my Intrigue, the difference is striking. Regal looks heavier and slower and older. Speaking of older, for the most part when I see an Intrigue, I think I'm the youngest person I've ever seen driving one. Most people I see are older couples who stuck with Oldsmobile despite the change.
Whoever said inconsistency is the main problem is RIGHT ON. I remember complimenting the improvement I saw with the passenger airbag covers on Intrigues but just yesterday I saw three Intrigues that had the same shoddy panel gaps. Try pushing on your windows. They give, creak even. Maximas... Accords... they don't. Try the same thing with the lower rear panel just behind the rear wheel. Same thing. Almost half an inch. Maximas? Not one.
A used car (or abused for that matter) should be an even greater test of the structural stability and reliability of a car.
legero8::: My short response to you is, if I was in your shoes, I'd feel the exact same way. After all, regardless of how many miles or how much it costs, that's your hard earned money (not to mention time) going into that machine. You bought it to drive, not to spend money to have it sit in a service bay.
That being said, dindak has a point. Used cars can be trouble even with only 5,000 miles on them. If the previous owner drag raced every morning with temps around 25 degrees F and never let the engine warm up OR the transmission oil (which many people don't think about), expect to have a piece of junk before 20,000 miles (got a buddy that's an "engine killer"). That goes for any car by any manufacturer. That's why my second Intrigue was new; I wanted to know EVERYTHING that had been done to it by the time I hit 60k.
To make blanket statements that Toyota, Honda and Nissan (and Chrysler) are "quality" cars is dangerous as well. C&D can be funny to read. Remember when the oval Taruas came out? The radio was praised like a king. 2 years later it was the worst thing in the world.
I lean more toward J.D. Powers. They're results show that some GM cars are BETTER than foreign. They are not necessarily in the same category (e.g. midsized vs. compact, luxury vs. midsized). So to say that just because one company has a rep for "reliable" cars is setting youself up for disappointment. My original Intrigue went 80,000 miles and never once left me stranded, unlike my '93 Toyota Camry.
According to J.D. Powers, Buick is probably the most "reliable" GM brand out there. But don't forget: all Buicks share platforms. So the problem experienced on a Grand Prix, Impala or Intrigue are probably going to be experienced on a Regal. Conversely, an RX300, Highlander, ES300 should have (or not have) the same problems as a Camry-- they share the same parts. But that doesn't mean a Toyota truck will have the same reliablity record.
So get what you're happy with for whatever reason you're happy with it. But don't fall into the "quality" and "reliability" trap. I've got 3 Nissan owners who will tell you the Maxima is pure crap (not to mention customer service) and would never buy another. And don't think Toyota doesn't have technical service bulletins or the only thing their mechanics do are oil and brake changes.
I haven't posted in a while.... Had to get it all out :-)
GP and Intrigue are built in Kansas; Buicks and Impala in Ontario, Canada. Probably just a better plant, better team.
BTW I ordered the front STB bracket from zzperformance.com yesterday. Got tired of RSM delaying me.
jg98, I'm 26 so I may be younger than you or not. I haven't seen alot of people my age driving Intrigues(see more in Aleros) but I do see a good mix of 30 and 40 somethings driving Intrigues. Thats pretty much the target demographic. And yes, I've seen some traditional(read older) Olds buyers driving Intrigues. To me, I could care less what kind of people drive the car I drive. If I like it and it fits my needs/wants and budget, I go with it. The Intrigue fit all three and there aren't very many other cars in it's price range that do.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1818862279
Dindak- My car being used has nothing to do with it. I bought a 1995 Ford which was a past rental car and I have not had half of the problems with that car and it has 90K miles on it now and I have owned it since 1996. My Intrigue is never wreaked with all service records so it wasn't beaten up as you say. Why would I want to but a new Intrigue anyway? I prefer NOT to waste 10K when I drive it off the lot.
BUICK- I would never consider a Regal anyway. Its nicer then a Intrigue but still is no Toyota. GM is GM Buick is not going to be Toyota. Buicks are about as reliable as Olds maybe a little better but not a whole lot. IF you want a unique sedan that not everyone drives and is reliable and nice go with a Volkswagon Passet. They are pricy but nicer then any Regal or Intrigue on the road.
Check Carmax.com for some more realistic examples. I see a 2001 GL w/cloth seats in Houston for $14,496. And this one has 24K miles. (stock# 1307224) I agree with you that resale isn't fantastic, but I'm keeping the car for about 7+ years, and GM sent me a $1000 coupon to use on another GM vehicle (or $1500 for an Oldsmobile). I'm not complaining.
In normal driving, steering effort is normal. Let go of the wheel and it straightens out. But about halfway into a full low-speed left or right turn, steering effort becomes negative. That is, if you let go of the wheel, it continues turning itself until end of travel. I nearly hit a bicyclist in a parking lot the other day. Is this actually the way they designed it? I've had a lot of cars, but never one that steered like this.
JD Power ranks the first 100 days of ownership. I don't trust that as to reliability.
redline, I've loved my Potenza RE950s. Amazing difference with ride quality and quietness. Glad to get rid of the Eagles. They were crap. These Potenzas have a 50K warranty.
Today was definitely a love day with my Intrigue. Even used the AC the first time today. Only problem now is the steering wheel is loose. Sigh. And it had been so long since it had seen the shop.
jg28 : Altima V6 is a better car for the buck, but with incentives on Maxima, it likely won't make much of a difference. I'm surprised you can't order any more as production still runs for 2 months.
You say "GM is GM" and "Buick is not going to be Toyota". I bet you would be surprised to learn that GM and Toyota have a shared manufacturing facility and that they have shared the Corolla/Prism for some time now. Plus, they share the Vibe/Matrix now. Imagine that... some GM employee touching your valuable Toyota...
As far as Passats, where do you get this stuff? "Unique" + "not everyone drives" + "reliable" = only the Passat? For one thing they aren't that unique. Have you ever seen an Audi? Notice any similarity between the Passat and A6? Plus, they tend to be overpriced for the amenities (which is why you don't see many) and I don't know where you get your reliability conclusion from. Did someone you know have one that didn't have problems? Or do the commercials ooze "reliable"?
Why would you never consider a Regal when you state it is nicer than the Intrigue and they cost about the same? I mean, you did actually buy an Intrigue...
Today I am unable to access it. I haven't tried in a couple of weeks so I don't know if this is something new or not. Does anyone know if Peter has finally thrown in the towel or are there just technical problems?
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Part of the reason I bought a "real" mid-size car to replace my Mazda Protege was the thought that I might someday need a family car, or something that can tow.
I may be moving from CA to NC, that's plenty of tow miles. Conventional wisdom with towing is that you can overload for a short distance if you're careful, but a long distance you should play it safe, and drive UNDER the GVWR weight limit.
Intrigue is only rated for 1000 lbs towing. Since even a small 5x8 trailer weighs around 700 lbs. (Assuming a good sturdy one with steel sides) that doesn't leave much unused weight for stuff.
I would assume the Intrigue is just as good a tow vechile as a Century or a Regal. Maybe even a little better, since it has disc brakes and the slightly larger tranny for the 3.5L.
(My other option is just sell my big stuff and cram what I can into the car-- and I did that on the move here, in a '74 Plymouth. I made it... although I had one shock absorber come loose!)
By the way, different trims of Regal have different transmissions. Some are rated higher than Intrigue. However, probably this is irrelevant.
At last GM had finally built a car which not only needed no apologies but according to Car & Driver, Motortrend, R&T etc., was actually better than its Japanese competitors. Sadly, with the phaseout of Olds GM killed the only two products it had (Alero & Intrigue) that could lure younger drivers away from imports. I would never buy a tacky Pontiac or a stodgy Buick. It amazes me that GM continues to believe that the way to reverse a staggering and apparently never ending loss of passenger car sales market share is to build yacht-sized Buicks with plenty of chrome glitz and portholes. Yes, GM there is a republican in the Whitehouse, but his name is not Eisenhower.
GM's new president, Bob Lutz, also thought Pontiacs look rather tacky with all that side-cladding and over-done interiors, and ordered all the cladding removed and interiors toned-down. I just saw pictures of the '03 Grand Prix and Bonneville, with their smoother skins, and they are stunning. (The Intrigue looks nice, but in a family-sedan sort of way). And they will come with the turbocharged verison of the 3800 standard. Zoom zoom.
He also saw a model of some new Buick and ordered the architects back to the drawing board to remove the "stodgyness". Some very good looking cars are going to come out of Buick in the next few years.
I take issue with the Car & Driver reference. While I recall the Intrigue winning one comparison competition years ago, and C&D does proclaim the Intrigue to be the best of the 3 cars which share the same platform, Olds has never placed in their annual Top 10 Cars once - while the Honda Acoord has for many years. No way can you cite where C&D or R&T says Olds is "better" than Honda or Toyota - espeically over the long-term. I'd like to see a comparison test of the Accord, Camry and Intrigue after 75K miles. The stats show long-term satisfaction scores aren't even close - Oldsmobile overall shows a frequency of repairs at TWICE the rate of Honda or Toyota.
I think you'll see the essence of what was good about Olds come through in the other GM brands over time.
Passat, nothing really unique about them any more as they have kind of become a yuppie car. Kind of a like a stepping stone on the way to BMW. And I still question VW reliability as much as you do Olds.
So if I were in the market today with the same budget I had last year and the Intrigue was not available, the Buick Regal GS would probably be first choice. I might consider a Maxima as 255 hp and a 5 speed isn't a bad combo and the discounts are pretty good on those. My problem with the Maxi is it's rear end styling and it's ancient beam axle rear suspension. And if only the new Altima didn't have those "boy racer" aftermarket Civic looking taillights. On second thought, I'd probably go with a 2-3 year old Cadillac STS or Oldsmobile Aurora with my $$. Nothing like the smooth power of a Northstar V8.
rc52 : Intrigue resale is not much different than any of it's sister cars (GP, Impala and Regal).
rjs- I bought an INtrigue cause guess what it was cheap! It only cost me 12,500 for the car one year old with 12K miles from a dealership that was stickered new at around $24,000. It was either this or a 97 Camry, Malibu, or Grand AM and the Intrigue was much nice then the loud Malibu and slow Grand AM and newer than a 97 Camry. A regal cost $15,500 so thats why I didn't get it higher price!
Passets are much nicer anyway look at Volkswagon's record quite good in being reliable if you ask me. What so unique about the Intrigue is just a Century, Grand Prix with a few differences. Most people think my Intrigue is an Alero so it doesn't even look unique.
Guess what I am not surprised I already knew the Vibe and Maxtix were the same and I don't care they are the ugliest things on the road I would never but one of those hippie/wagon SUV things.
This is common sense. Sure there are some other possible reasons like job loss or what have you but never buy a car with that few miles. Every car manufacturer has some lemons made, that 's all.
Based on your comments I can only guess that you are simply a GM basher and I doubt you even have an Intrigue. You have not made one reasonable point about your car.
Dindak, I think you're being unreasonable about the used car issue. You can't blame all the problems on it being used. Your Intrigue isn't junk but can you argue that his Intrigue isn't?
It sounds like legero probably goes out and beats up his Intrigue anyway. Legero, maybe your car is just behaving like the junk you think it is. Even so, I'm willing to buy into the fact that I've had more problems than most because mine was used. But I don't buy into the theory that all the problems were because it was used. How would you explain steering shafts and flickering headlights then?
Passats (yes it's Passat and Volkswagen not Volkswagon) are not "different." They're a dime a dozen in these parts, and are the "must have" for all the materialistic women and men around here. I'm not dissing them. I like them for their safety features and their AWD availability. And their 190HP engines are somehow just as lively as our 3.5s. But they're not "different."
Sure the car could be a lemon also, but as you said, the Intrigue is NOT junk.
Your stating of used prices is also rather irrelevant. The prices you happened to see do not define the used prices of Intrigues, Regals, Malibus, and Camrys. Perhaps there were equipment differences, perhaps the Intrigue was repo'ed, perhaps the places you looked just had high prices on some of their cars.
Do you really think the Passat has less visual similarity to the A6 than the Intrigue does to the Regal? Obviously the Regal and Century look the same, but do you honestly confuse a Monte Carlo or Impala with one?
jg28, you are right that all of his problems may or may not be because it was used. My main point is that to dismiss a whole manufacturer or even a product line because of one bad example is idiotic. If he wants to do that for personal reasons, fine. But if he wants to persuade all of us, he's going to need a substantive argument that goes deeper than "mine sucks".
Actually, it sounds like some of his visits could be caused by abuse. The radiator hose and loose clamp could be from a poor job of flushing (often times people remove the lower hose in lieu of the drainplug) or a strong engine cleaner that wasn't rinsed off well (some of those can be quite caustic), and the wheel hub could be from improper loading of the vehicle especially over a long distance like using your Intrigue as a pack-mule on a move. It isn't impossible for abuse to be the culprit for some of his problems. Either way, his problems are in no way "typical" of Intrigues. The headlight dimming seems more common, so at least multiple people have the problem. Even still, it could be that mostly only people with complaints (and a few car-crazies) seek out message boards, so you see a disproportionate number of dissatisfied customers here.
Don't hate GM for the demise of Olds. I too am disappointed, but I am looking forward to Cadillac (not Pontiac) picking up for them. Most of Olds products could be inexpensive Caddies (especially with Caddies starting to have some handling).
I do hate GM for the demise of Olds. You need at least ten years to succeed when you remake an entire line. Cadillacs will likely never appeal to me. I do not like the way they're going with their "art & science" concepts. I think the new CTS is butt ugly.
Nissan is most likely to get my bucks for a successor to my Intrigue.
I first came here to see if others were having the same steering problems I had. Turns out they had, but not as severe. I also discovered others had similar problems with brakes, crank sensors, door trim, and overall fit and finish, but not all on the same car. Certainly some of these issues are more severe than others. Taken all together, you'd have a hard time convincing me that I should love my car, or that all of these were one-off problems. The fact that there seem to be a lot of satisfied owners on here with few or no problems makes me jealous, but it doesn't change my personal opinion about my car.
It's foolish to extrapolate anything from this board or from individual surveys regarding GM or Oldsmobile overall quality. But given that 2 of the 3 new GM products I bought in the past 5 years were lemons, and GM did not seem concerned about helping a loyal customer fix problems that were well-documented, I will choose to go elsewhere for my next vehicle. Maybe I'll get a lemon Toyota that's smaller and costs more. Seems to be my luck.
jg28 : I'm not mad at GM for canning Oldsmobile, I'm disappointed. Although I think it was the wrong thing to do, from a business stand point I can see why they did it. Bob Lutz and the boys have some great product coming and I think you will be surprised when you see how nice the next generation Grand Prix and Impala will be.