I'm not mad at GM for dropping Olds, after all that was typical business as usual for them in the Pre Lutz era. They finally get a car(or in this case a brand) right and then ditch it because it hasn't yet caught on. Oh and not advertising it well either. Imagine if Toyota replaced the Camry with a totally new model and didn't even put "Toyota" on the car it's first year. The Intrigue replaced the Cutlass Supreme(a car known by almost anyone as an Olds) yet first year Intrigues didn't even have an Olds badge on the exterior. And to top it off, they changed their emblem as well. If your going to change your product and rename it thats fine, but let people know what it is. I knew what an Intrigue was because I read car magazines, but the average Joe probably thought it was a Dodge. Although I have had a couple of people ask me if my car was an Infiniti. Alas, I just hope GM takes what worked at Olds and applies it at other brands. It's looking like Pontiac may have some hope, otherwise it's used Cadillacs for me in the future. That is until I get that "big promotion" and can afford one new:)
Well looks like for 2003 GM is making ABS optional on almost all their cars save a few Caddies so they can make more money and charge 200-300% markup on them,side airbags, and rear headrests. Guess with the Intrigue going away, atleast there won't be any Intrigues without ABS!
If I end up getting a car without this stuff standard, I am not looking forward to seeing that extra $1000 bucks for safety features on the bill. Maybe it will save $1000 in insurance premiums over the life of the car.
Audi hasn't had "Audi" on the outside of their cars for awhile. Same with Volkswagen. And Mitsubishi is dropping their moniker from their cars. Olds just needed time for their emblem to become synonymous with the product. You'd look at the rocket emblem and know it was Oldsmobile. You have a great point about the change of the emblem but I'm glad they changed it (I just wish they wouldda changed the font for Oldsmobile).
vc... I'll be surprised if they do this in Canada. When I checked the standard equipment differences in the US Maxima versus the Canada Maxima, all that stuff came standard: (traction control, side airbags, heated mirrors). Maybe this is unique to Nissan though.
I've noticed my car seems a bit softer with the stock sway over the next level one. But I keep thinking it's my imagination. Maybe you could get one of the smaller sway bars from grand prix or impala? Are you sure it's wise to operate the car without a sway?
Dindak, I didn't say Intrigue is not junk. I said YOUR Intrigue wasn't junk. Legero's is for sure.
From what I've read Olds' last year of production is supposed to be 2004. Yet here in Charlotte, the two Olds dealerships have pretty much folded. They were stand alone dealerships with their own service areas at first. Then in the last year service has been combined with Cadillac down the street. Now the Olds dealership is closed, but they have new Olds on the lot and nobody on the lot to sell them. The Cadillac dealership has some used Olds (mainly 2000 used Intrigues), and the normal selection of used Cadillacs. In the local newspaper auto-section there is no longer any advertisements for Olds. Where the dealership used to say Cadillac-Olds, it now just says Cadillac. At the service dept after they combined Cadillac-Olds service there was a sign proclaiming "Welcome Oldsmobile Owners". That is gone, too. How sad. Have I missed something? Will 2002 be the last year for Olds after all? Too bad Lutz wasn't onboard before the decision was made to kill Olds. I think that as the car man he is he would have killed Buick instead.
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Oscarz, Removal of the front sway bar only, is just plain scary. If you must remove the front swaybar, then you should also remove the rear one.
Your car is now heavily weighted to oversteer. An accident avoidance manuever or a quick blast on a cloverleaf may have you taking unexpected trip off the pavement.
I have a a little bit of experience with autocrossing, and have friends who do vintage racing. I have only seen them remove a front bar once and that was on a MGA that was understeering big time.
All those reasons for hating Olds yet you bought one. Maybe it was traded in after the previous owner drove it 12,000 Miles without an oil change and drove the snot out of it.
I saw that news on now optional safety equipment. Problem for GM is so many of it's competitors make ABS and side airbags optional that it almost has to cut back. I'll tell you one thing, I will never drive a car with out ABS again. It's saved my butt a couple of times in the past few years. Guess I'll have to pay though.
I suspect on upper trim levels, the ABS and side bags will be added as standard though.
In this debate I'd say the stock Intrigue is just a touch understeered. (I'm used to the dartier feel of 4 cyl company cars I have to drive at work.) I don't think removing the front sway bar is the right answer, though. I like stability.
Do the strut tower braces make any difference in oversteer/understeer?
merely serve to stiffen the front strut towers; this takes a little of the slop from steering wheel input to response from the car... doesn't really affect over- or understeering. I, too, would not ever totally remove a front sway bar, but I'm glad you related your experience. That's what this board is for (though obviously some would disagree). Sway bar shouldn't affect overall ride too much. It is actually free to rotate up and down as the suspension moves. Only comes into play when the car tries to lean; then acts as a side to side torsen bar. They mainly affect the ride when left wheel and right wheel encounter different road characteristics (i.e.: pothole). There are two different camps associated with ride/handling: stiff springs and small sway bars and soft springs and big sway bars. I tend to favor the later.
My experimenting is by no means over. Since I decided to keep my Intrigue (despite it's negatives), I'm going to play and tweak.
The front sway bar was simple to remove and since b4z mentioned it, I'll remove the rear to see how it feels. Maybe it's mental but it sure feels like the front springs (instead of me) are now absorbing the bumps. I think it will take a few days to really gauge the differences in ride and handling.
but that doesn't mean that people who think Intrigue is junk shouldn't have a welcoming forum. As I understand it, this is a board about the experience of owning an Intrigue, whether good or bad. It isn't a board that ought to be a defense of Intrigue. Let the car speak for itself and our common (and uncommon) experiences speak for themselves.
Nevertheless, I feel legeros' arguments have a certain degree of immaturity to them. Even so, there are days when I've kicked myself for buying an Oldsmobile Intrigue, so I can understand how he feels. Did I mention my steering wheel is loose now? The actual wheel, not the column. But most days, I love her anyway.
I don't disbelieve you or anyone else who has problems with an Intrigue. Unfortunately some people like you are rational about it and this guy isn't. I know the Intrigue isn't perfect.
Y'all here in the Intrigue room seem to be the most avid Olds fans, so I wondered if you had seen the site http://www.saveoldsmobile.org. I just bought my "Save Oldsmobile" jersey with the old rocket logo on it. Made me wish I had my '78 Cutlass Supreme back. I like my Alero, but still am wistful for the rocket hood ornament on my first Olds!
is right!!! Cars like the Intrigue, Aurora, and Alero are just "unoriginal." They should have stuck with "proven" designs like the Cutlass Ciera and Eighty-Eight. Sorry, but the Ciera and Eighty-Eight wouldn't have gotten this 26 year old within a block of an Olds dealership. The Delta 88 was a good car in it's time, but it's time had well passed before 1999. If you like the Eighty-Eight, Buick has a wonderful car called the LeSabre waiting for you. Just think guys, the "unoriginal" Intrigue is the only car in it's price range with an available stability control system(PCS), only GM midsize to have a Northstar based DOHC V6 engine, comes standard with ABS, alloy wheels, 16" rims, etc. I guess Olds should have been original and offered a base model(read 70% of total sales) with a 4 banger, rear drums, and 15" wheels with plastic covers. Personally I'm glad Olds took the road less travelled and gave us(those that actually enjoy driving) a decent line of cars in their final years.
Dindak, jg28, one2one, and others I guess it's time for us to conform and buy an "original" car.
BTW, anyone heard from the guy that had a late/hate relationship with his 98 and 99 Intrigues? I guess he was too un "PC" for this forum.
I am assuming you are talking about 1415/6363/98990lds/1way. I correspond with him on a weekley basis. He is busy getting ready to move down to FLA. His car has been running great, although the front end noise has come back. it appears there is a pin kit or something that will stop the calipers from rattling. he sometimes posts on gmforums.com on the oldsmobile thread.
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I'm getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on another Oldsmobile, this time an Alero. Our lease is coming due soon and they will let us out early at this point. C$2000 Olds credit and C$1000 upgrade credit will make it a great deal. We shall be an all Olds family for the next few years anyway.
Wasn't it Lutz who didn't like all the "standard" options that GM cars came with? While I think he's the best thing that has happened to GM in getting out the bean counters, I think he's a complete nut when it comes to the options dept.
Aside from not really fitting in the Dodge Intrepid, one of the reasons I got another Intrigue is because I got what I wanted without having to figure out how much the car cost with each option that I either wanted or didn't want. The two cars cost about the same when optioned similarly. But my Intrigue had me figure only two options into the price-- leather package and spoiler.
That's it.
If GM had charged for options on the Intrigue and I could have fit into an Intrepid R/T, I probably would have gone with that one. Which leads me to my next point...
Regardless of what our past or present experiences with Intrigues are, they're not here anymore. So, what would you replace your Intrigue with if you had to get another car today? (like I had to do when that punk stole his father's truck and smashed my ride!... But I digress :-)
For me, the Intrepid R/T was a blast to drive! While I can see myself using the AutoStick that wasn't a selling point. The engine has a nice throatly sound and it handled very well. The steering felt kind of heavy at low speeds but was nicely weighted at highway speeds. Not to mention it was very tight and felt good in the hands. If they would just do something with that interior space :-( It has on paper more room than the Intrigue but for me (6'8") I can barely fit into the car with the seat all the way back. I can pull the seat UP in my Intrigue and still drive safely. Hopefully I won't have to make the decision to get another car any time soon.
Thats a tough one, with so many new models due in the next 2 years and not knowing what quite to expect from each of them.
With space not being as much of a factor for me being 5'9", I could see myself in a Mazda 6 5 door, but who knows what the next Accord, TL, or Maxima have to offer, or whether the Mondeo will make it to NA. No more OHV motors for me.
I don't see a v8 in my near future, I don't want to spend more than the $40 a week I do already on gas.
If I had to trade now, I guess I would go for a Passat 1.8T 5 speed.
Replacement sedan would likely be a Maxima or a Grand Prix right now once the Intrigue is no longer available. Most sedans on the road are whimpy or dull looking. The next generation Accord looks pretty good from pictures I've seen so far as does the next generation Grand Prix.
I am looking at the marauder and maybe the next gp. The 280 hp version of course. Problem with the gp is that it is OHV and i really miss the smoothness and passing power that my intrigue had.
is the Acura 3.2 TL, hands down the best driving and looking car for the money on the road today. I can get into one for just about $26K - a couple of years ago it was full sticker ($29.9) or no deal. About $5K more than I paid for my GLX, but worth it. And the resale after 3 years is about twice what I'll get for my Intrigue.
As a driver, the Intrigue has been great, but as an investment, it's depreciation has been worse than a tech stock fund. When factoring the depreciation, the Intrigue has cost me more per month than if I had bought the Acura with a $125/month higher payment.
Something tells me the new Accord may really trump the current TL until it is redesigned as far as value since it will probably get the current TL motor.
I've been kind of lax keeping up with the newer models partly because my Intrigue hasn't given me any problems and that, with the exception of the 300M, R/T and G-Force, nothing is really exciting me.
TSchramm::: I'd hold off on the TL until after the Accord replacement comes out. A new TL will unquestionably follow. And if you don't like the new TL, you can get the current model cheap! :-)
Yeah, that dindak guy is always posting false comments. He shouldn't be allowed to post things like that. I always post facts, as does everyone in this thread. In the 2.5 years that i have been posting here, I have yet to make a mistake. I mean everybody here should know the difference between hand drawn pictures and photos. Off with his head, I say.
From what I've read, the base '03 Accord will get the bigger 4 that's in the CR-V, but the V6 stays the same as what is currently available. It will not get the Acura TL V6 (Honda's not going to cannabalize TL sales). I'm keeping a close watch on what Acura will do with the TL, but it will likely remain a significant cut above what the Accord EX-V6 will offer.
And anyone who has seen a TL parked next to an Accord wiil tesitiy that there is no comparison...
I have seen a TL parked next to an Accord V6 and while there is more difference than say a Camry and an ES300, I can tell they are same basic car underneath. The average consumer probably wouldn't but those of us who know cars and look beyond the sheetmetal or nameplate know. The TL is a good bargain feature wise, but if you think thr styling is the best thing on the road, I'd recommend a subscription to Conservative Union:) J/K
If I had to replace my Intrigue today with the same amount of funds available as I had when I bought it, the first thing I'd look for is a 2002 model. I like the two tone leather and power lumbar adjustment that was added on GLS models. Also like the new style radio. But if the Intrugue were unavilable I'd probably seriously consider a Buick Regal GS. I'd also look at an Aurora 3.5 but even with discounts it's probably a bit more. Next stop would be a cerrtified pre owned Cadillac STS, DTS, or Eldorado. I would also say the new CTS, but right now it's a bit out of my price range. A low mileage 99 Aurora(last year of the old style) might also tempt me. I might also look at the new Altima V6 with a 5 speed, but optioned out those are nearly as much as an Intrigue GLS and they are going for MSRP right now. And I just can't get past those "aftermarket Civic" looking taillights.
I'm with you on the ease of buying an Intrigue without having to wade through option lists. The Olds(and GM in general) method has been to offer several trim lines of one car with the features standard and few options. The Intrigue was a good example. Want just the basic essentials(V6, ABS, alloys, power windows, locks, etc) get the GX. Want a few extras like climate control, fog lamps, power seats, etc. move up to the GL and if you want the full boat get the GLS. The only thing I would have changed was make EVERYTHING standard on the GLS. This is so much easier than trying to find one in the color you like with the features you want if they are all optional. In fact, I thought GM went to the simplified option availability for cost purposes. It is afterall, cheaper to build a car when there are fewer potential build combinations.
Dindak, good luck with the Alero. They are nice cars as well. I'm trying to get my girlfriend to get one. She's growing tired of her Escort ZX2 and has mentioned a Civic(typical female response) so I'm trying to broaden her horizons car wise. With the disocunts she should be able to swing a base or moderately equipped Alero. I'd actually like to drive one with the 5 speed and the new Ecotec four. Her's would have to be an automatic though.
Maybe not really a myth, or maybe a myth indeed. A brand is considered more reliable than others depending on the number of problems its cars have in average against other brands.
Therefore, even though it sounds like reliability isn't a quantified statement, it sure is. Having said this, it's all about numbers and statistics.
I'd certainly like to see not only the problems average, which is often possible, but also the standard deviation on that average, which I've never been able to find.
However, American brands have been improving steadily in the 90s. American cars nowadays are about as reliable as Japanese cars 4 or 5 years ago. If Japanese cars were reliable enough then, why aren't American ones nowadays?
American cars have been improving reliability at a much faster rate than Japanese ones, matching them in about 5 years if the current trends are maintained.
Nevertheless, an American car has about 60% more problems than Japanese ones. It seems like a big difference, but we're talking about 2 problems per 100 Japanese cars and 3 problems per 100 American cars, or something in this ballpark. Is it really that much of a difference? Honestly, I don't think so, not for the average price difference.
Besides, even though some Japanese cars are assembled in the US, typically more than 50% of the cost of their parts come from Japan. Especially after the infamous 9th of September, 2001, I'd rather see the profits on the goods I buy stay in America, instead of evading to make another country great, to USA's loss.
Publishes several surveys about cars. The best known one is about the 100 days of experience ("initial quality"), but there are those that consider the long term quality as well as about appeal, among others.
GM ranks 3rd in 1 year of experience, ahead of Nissan and VW, with neither BMW or MB figuring among the top 10 (I wish I could have found the link to this report).
I've leased one for 3 years. Sorry to see it go...
I had it with the V6 in the GL1 trim. I loved its power and it made laugh quite a bit when I smoked boy racers in their 325 "driving machines", only to see them puzzled about being beaten by an American car over $15G cheaper! :^)
Only complaint I had about it was about the intruding B-pillar. Overall a very smooth car with good looks and understated prowess. Ah, did I mention its near perfect reliability, except for replacing an AC compressor and a dead battery?
Tested the Alero this morning. It was a GX with automatic and power driver seat. We will likely put an offer in to buy it Monday or Tuesday. $1000 upgrade credit and a $2000 Olds credit combined with 0.9% 60 month financing make it a great deal for a really nice car. I would not have considered the old 2.4L, but the Ecotec is sweet! Looks like we will be an all Oldsmobile family. The SUV will have to wait for a few years.
As for American cars, I really don't believe the better models are any different than Japanese cars for reliability or quality. After driving 2 Japanses cars in the past I will say that from a price point and a cost of maintainence point, they can not be beat.
I know the S4 is a totally different ball game, but I've shown some regular A4s my taillights before. Speaking of performance variations, I was going through some old auto mags and found an Autoweek from November 1999 and it had a review on some cars Olds had at the SEMA show. They called them OSV(Oldsmobile Speciality Vehicles) and had a supercharged Intrigue and Alero and a "tuned" minivan. The article also mentioned the then just being released 2001 Aurora would probably see some sort of treatment as well. Whats worse is the Intrigue was mentioned as the one most likely bound for production. If only Lutz had been at GM sooner. I think 250 hp was the figure for the blower Intrigue. In addition, the car had Recaro buckets inside and was an inch or so lower althought it was still an autobox. Oh and it looked so sharp! Kind of makes you sick knowing what might have been.
I've driven an Alero twice. Once was last summer when I was test driving cars and the other time was about 3 years ago when I had one as a rental. Both were V6 models and I was pretty impressed with them. I went with the Intrigue because I felt it had a more upscale and refined feel about it and it was bigger. The Alero was fun to throw into a corner though. I would like to drive one with the new four and the 5 speed. The V6 models are quick, but something about the 3400 V6 just doesn't sound or feel as good as the 3.5 or the 3800. Now if they could somehow shoehorn the 3.5 into the Alero, it would be one fun little car.
The last OSV Alero did have the Shortstar.. and tuned for performance at 245hp naturally aspirated (shame they never developed it for anything more than a pedestrian 215 for production when even minivans with 3.5L have more hp now)..
Front bar has been off for almost a week and I took off the back 2 days ago. There's no question the car rides more comfortable. Obviously there's some body roll but it's not excessive. I do little freeway driving and most of the roads around here are anything but suited for Intrigue's suspension.
I went on a 80 mile freeway trip yesterday and the car is fine. I'm quite aware the bars are off so I don't drive as aggressive. It's No different than driving a different vehicle altogether- you get the feel for it and drive accordingly.
Basically, It feels more like a GM car now (and I like it).
I'm shopping for tires now and considering either Michelin X-ONE or Yokohama Avid Touring. Any comments or experiences with these? Goodyear LS are trash-bound. I want more comfort and less noise. I know, I shoulda bought a caddy but with a couple of more tweaks (including struts) I'll turn it into one.
I wouldn't bother with a V6 Alero. It's fast, but at that price range, you are in Intrigue GX base territory. The Ecotec has great passing power and enough off the line power for around town also. I'm sure a K&N will be available soon as this is a very high volume engine now.
I will probably fax over an offer for the car today. My wife wants an automatic, but I tested the 5-speed in December and it was really good. Highly recommend it if your girl friend is willing to learn.
oscarz2 - I'm also looking for new tires. The Michelin Pilot XGT H4, Yokohama Avid Touring, and Dunlop SP Sport A2 are on my short list. I think the Yokohamas will be the most comfortable and quiet, from what I've read at Tirerack.com. The Dunlops seem to be a bargain at $83 per tire, so I'll probably go that route.
Comments
Intrigue swaybar is 36mm solid. Next-level swaybar is just under 32mm solid. Don't know about the torsion difference.
By the way, I'm not recommending anyone do this. I'm just sharing my experience.
If I end up getting a car without this stuff standard, I
am not looking forward to seeing that extra $1000 bucks for safety features on the bill. Maybe it will save $1000 in insurance premiums over the life of the car.
vc... I'll be surprised if they do this in Canada. When I checked the standard equipment differences in the US Maxima versus the Canada Maxima, all that stuff came standard: (traction control, side airbags, heated mirrors). Maybe this is unique to Nissan though.
I've noticed my car seems a bit softer with the stock sway over the next level one. But I keep thinking it's my imagination. Maybe you could get one of the smaller sway bars from grand prix or impala? Are you sure it's wise to operate the car without a sway?
Dindak, I didn't say Intrigue is not junk. I said YOUR Intrigue wasn't junk. Legero's is for sure.
As for sway bars, did you get poly bushings when you put yours on? That would make it ride harsher as they are harder than the stock rubber ones.
I think some cars don't have a sway bar, you just don't want too big a difference between front and rear I would guess.
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Removal of the front sway bar only, is just plain scary. If you must remove the front swaybar, then you should also remove the rear one.
Your car is now heavily weighted to oversteer.
An accident avoidance manuever or a quick blast on a cloverleaf may have you taking unexpected trip off the pavement.
I have a a little bit of experience with autocrossing, and have friends who do vintage racing. I have only seen them remove a front bar once and that was on a MGA that was understeering big time.
I suspect on upper trim levels, the ABS and side bags will be added as standard though.
Do the strut tower braces make any difference in oversteer/understeer?
The front sway bar was simple to remove and since b4z mentioned it, I'll remove the rear to see how it feels. Maybe it's mental but it sure feels like the front springs (instead of me) are now absorbing the bumps. I think it will take a few days to really gauge the differences in ride and handling.
Sensatracs and different tires are next.
Nevertheless, I feel legeros' arguments have a certain degree of immaturity to them. Even so, there are days when I've kicked myself for buying an Oldsmobile Intrigue, so I can understand how he feels. Did I mention my steering wheel is loose now? The actual wheel, not the column. But most days, I love her anyway.
Dindak, jg28, one2one, and others I guess it's time for us to conform and buy an "original" car.
BTW, anyone heard from the guy that had a late/hate relationship with his 98 and 99 Intrigues? I guess he was too un "PC" for this forum.
He is busy getting ready to move down to FLA. His car has been running great, although the front end noise has come back. it appears there is a pin kit or something that will stop the calipers from rattling.
he sometimes posts on gmforums.com on the oldsmobile thread.
Folks, if you see a message that makes you hot under the collar, the best thing to do is just count to ten and let it go. If you must respond, you are required to word your message in a manner that complies with the MA. Otherwise, I have to remove your post along with the original offensive message.
I know some folks think this is not entirely fair, but the facts are if someone posts a message in violation of the MA you still may NOT violate the MA yourself in response. Let your host handle it.
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Aside from not really fitting in the Dodge Intrepid, one of the reasons I got another Intrigue is because I got what I wanted without having to figure out how much the car cost with each option that I either wanted or didn't want. The two cars cost about the same when optioned similarly. But my Intrigue had me figure only two options into the price-- leather package and spoiler.
That's it.
If GM had charged for options on the Intrigue and I could have fit into an Intrepid R/T, I probably would have gone with that one. Which leads me to my next point...
For me, the Intrepid R/T was a blast to drive! While I can see myself using the AutoStick that wasn't a selling point. The engine has a nice throatly sound and it handled very well. The steering felt kind of heavy at low speeds but was nicely weighted at highway speeds. Not to mention it was very tight and felt good in the hands. If they would just do something with that interior space :-( It has on paper more room than the Intrigue but for me (6'8") I can barely fit into the car with the seat all the way back. I can pull the seat UP in my Intrigue and still drive safely. Hopefully I won't have to make the decision to get another car any time soon.
So, what would be your pick?
With space not being as much of a factor for me being 5'9", I could see myself in a Mazda 6 5 door, but who knows what the next Accord, TL, or Maxima have to offer, or whether the Mondeo will make it to NA. No more OHV motors for me.
I don't see a v8 in my near future, I don't want to spend more than the $40 a week I do already on gas.
If I had to trade now, I guess I would go for a Passat 1.8T 5 speed.
Problem with the gp is that it is OHV and i really miss the smoothness and passing power that my intrigue had.
As a driver, the Intrigue has been great, but as an investment, it's depreciation has been worse than a tech stock fund. When factoring the depreciation, the Intrigue has cost me more per month than if I had bought the Acura with a $125/month higher payment.
Big problem I have with the TL is the bland looks. I mistake them for Accords regularly which should not be the case on a U$27-30K car.
I've been kind of lax keeping up with the newer models partly because my Intrigue hasn't given me any problems and that, with the exception of the 300M, R/T and G-Force, nothing is really exciting me.
TSchramm::: I'd hold off on the TL until after the Accord replacement comes out. A new TL will unquestionably follow. And if you don't like the new TL, you can get the current model cheap! :-)
one2one : New Motor Trend has pictures of the new Accord. It's pretty nice.
When my junk Intrigue is paid off I will get a Passet. Best car on the road IMO can't wait to junk my Intrigue can't wait!
I always post facts, as does everyone in this thread.
In the 2.5 years that i have been posting here, I have yet to make a mistake.
I mean everybody here should know the difference between hand drawn pictures and photos.
Off with his head, I say.
And anyone who has seen a TL parked next to an Accord wiil tesitiy that there is no comparison...
Who makes the Passet? Must be better than that junk Intrigue car anyway.
Dindak, good luck with the Alero. They are nice cars as well. I'm trying to get my girlfriend to get one. She's growing tired of her Escort ZX2 and has mentioned a Civic(typical female response) so I'm trying to broaden her horizons car wise. With the disocunts she should be able to swing a base or moderately equipped Alero. I'd actually like to drive one with the 5 speed and the new Ecotec four. Her's would have to be an automatic though.
Therefore, even though it sounds like reliability isn't a quantified statement, it sure is. Having said this, it's all about numbers and statistics.
I'd certainly like to see not only the problems average, which is often possible, but also the standard deviation on that average, which I've never been able to find.
However, American brands have been improving steadily in the 90s. American cars nowadays are about as reliable as Japanese cars 4 or 5 years ago. If Japanese cars were reliable enough then, why aren't American ones nowadays?
American cars have been improving reliability at a much faster rate than Japanese ones, matching them in about 5 years if the current trends are maintained.
Nevertheless, an American car has about 60% more problems than Japanese ones. It seems like a big difference, but we're talking about 2 problems per 100 Japanese cars and 3 problems per 100 American cars, or something in this ballpark. Is it really that much of a difference? Honestly, I don't think so, not for the average price difference.
Besides, even though some Japanese cars are assembled in the US, typically more than 50% of the cost of their parts come from Japan. Especially after the infamous 9th of September, 2001, I'd rather see the profits on the goods I buy stay in America, instead of evading to make another country great, to USA's loss.
GM ranks 3rd in 1 year of experience, ahead of Nissan and VW, with neither BMW or MB figuring among the top 10 (I wish I could have found the link to this report).
I had it with the V6 in the GL1 trim. I loved its power and it made laugh quite a bit when I smoked boy racers in their 325 "driving machines", only to see them puzzled about being beaten by an American car over $15G cheaper!
:^)Only complaint I had about it was about the intruding B-pillar. Overall a very smooth car with good looks and understated prowess. Ah, did I mention its near perfect reliability, except for replacing an AC compressor and a dead battery?
Good luck.
As for American cars, I really don't believe the better models are any different than Japanese cars for reliability or quality. After driving 2 Japanses cars in the past I will say that from a price point and a cost of maintainence point, they can not be beat.
OSV Alero
I went on a 80 mile freeway trip yesterday and the car is fine. I'm quite aware the bars are off so I don't drive as aggressive. It's No different than driving a different vehicle altogether- you get the feel for it and drive accordingly.
Basically, It feels more like a GM car now (and I like it).
I'm shopping for tires now and considering either Michelin X-ONE or Yokohama Avid Touring. Any comments or experiences with these? Goodyear LS are trash-bound. I want more comfort and less noise. I know, I shoulda bought a caddy but with a couple of more tweaks (including struts) I'll turn it into one.
I will probably fax over an offer for the car today. My wife wants an automatic, but I tested the 5-speed in December and it was really good. Highly recommend it if your girl friend is willing to learn.