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Comments
I have nothing against 4-cyl. jobs, though I would be worried about resale value since most people expect to find a 6 in these sorts of cars. Is this another long-term vehicle?
It's just killing me to see these deals being offered by GM plus having my GM card rebate money just sitting there. I like the look of the 2-dr Alero with alloys and dark paint. One would look nice in my driveway.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
With gas prices going up, the Ecotec may be the engine of choice in a few years who knows. Price premium is about C$3K as you have to jump to the GL (C$2K more) and about C$1K for the V6. I love the Ecotec, one of the best 4 cyl motors out there. I don't feel like I'm giving much up for $3K except worse gas mileage.
2 dr GX is nice. They had one with a 5-speed at the dealer. I have a child so it's out for me.
Engine - What comments does everyone have about the 3.5 engine with regard to reliability, service costs, etc. Has anyone changed a timing belt yet? I have of course read about the mysterious headlight dimming/alternator problem, seems to be under control - right?
I am still looking at cars, lately I have been seeing some interesting deals on near new Aurora's which has gotten me thinking of the 3.5 versues Shortstar.
I only have 22K on my 3.5 so I can't comment on long-term reliability or costs. Alternator replaced twice a year ago, crankshaft-sensor bad 6 months ago, and occasional rough start when engine is warm.
Does anyone know if the front-door panel is difficult to remove? Can i get a quick how-to? I think there's a loose screw on the speaker or something. I could let the dealer check it but I'd like to learn how to remove it if I replace a speaker or something later on.
Picking it up near the end of the month as our lease is paid till the end of the month on the current car. Let you know my impressions of ownership later.
A couple of weeks ago he had a bunch of bravadas. Now there is nothing.
I wonder if he has given up his franchise?
Local dealer here is flush with cars. They have several of everything on the lot.
The www.gmcanada.com web site shows some screamin' deals on Olds here for sure. They have Intrigue GXs that list for a little over $30K Cdn on for $24,xxx. Local dealers show a reasonable supply of these. However, Alero GXs are nowhere to be found in inventory anywhere in Atl. Canada. These are going for somewhere in the $21-22xxx range.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
one under the door closing handle and the other behind the door unlock handle.
Using a flat screwdriver to first pry out the small plastic cover behind the door unlock handle which has a grove top and bottom for the purpose.
The power switches are disengaged by lifting up on the panel from the lower end near the door closing handle. Do this by hand as a pry may imprint into the vinyl. The lower end has as spring snap lock in and the upper end has a plastic hook that tucks under. When replacing, the upper end must go in first and then the bottom is snapped down. When you have the panel out disconnect the electrical cables. Be aware of the little locking tabs. A fine slot screwdriver, one side at a time, while wiggling the plug will ease them out.
The hard part is pulling out the gm barbed locking pins the are around the perimeter of the door. There are special tools that make this operation easier. It is a screwdriver like tool that has about a 3/4 inch wide blade that is forked and has a bend of about 20 degrees for leverage. The idea is to get leverage on both sides of the barbed pins. I have a medium size pinch bar with a fork end that works nicely. I have used a tack remover from walmart, yet the blade is not as wide and the fork does not go completly around the barb, but it does work. I like to place a rag under the fulcrum point of the pryer to protect the paint. Sometimes you can get tour fingers under the panel and slowly pull it away. Once the first barb is released the rest are easier. Try starting in the bottom left corner as any slight marking of the paint will be hidden
If you get this far and have the panel pulled away there is the door lock/unlock connector to unplug.
When you are in the door, check that the plastic water deflector is fully attached around its perimeter by the black sticky [non-permissible content removed]. This is why I had my door off, on a hard rain water was coming in behind the panel and filling up the rocker panel between the two weather stripping. Water comes in around the window , hits the plastic and then runs down the side , out behind the panel and onto the rocker panel. At the low point of the plastic deflector there is a hole in the door side panel to allow the water to drain back into the door well and out the weeps holes. Make sure that the plastic gets to this hole. I had to do all four doors as this plastic was not firmly stuck to the [non-permissible content removed] and after a hard rain when you opened the door a bunch of water poured out onto the ground.
Good luck if you attempt this and do not attempt it if you are not the handy type. Although it is never to late to learn something new.
TIRES: I'm also considering Dunlap's, but my mechanic of 20 yrs says that they wear faster than other brands. He recommends Goodrich Touring T/A's which he put on his restored '83 7 Series. I had Dunlap D60 A2 with JBL on my '96 Mustang, and they were very sticky on both wet & dry roads.
TIMING CHAIN: My '98 GM Service manual set indicates that the 3.8 has a chain not a belt.
Dealer lubed the steering shaft and turned the front rotors - $168. Said the rotors were probaly at their thinnest and will need to be replaced at the next brake job, but the pads still have 80% wear left.
Still, being the first model year - a '98 - and with 70K miles, this Intrigue drove home today pratically as nicely as it did when new. I still don't have a single rattle or squeak to complain about. Only routine maintenance until the steering shaft lube job - just oil, filters, brake pads, a set of tires and a battery. Pretty good testament to GM on this one.
All is fine with the Intrigue until a huge bag gets run over by the car in front of me, then rolls under my car. I check the rear and side view mirrors to make sure it doesn't stick under mine, but I don't see it. A minute later my tempurature guage crosses the halfway point for the first time I've seen.
Had to get off the highway and pull the huge sears bag out from the intake area in front of the rad. Made a long trip longer, but I had the windows down, roof slid back and MP3 player hooked up, so it wasn't all bad.
Got the zzperformace STB brackets waiting for me at the post office! Will install tomorrow.
Legero8 ::: I feel for your defense, someone should have forewarned you that this is a very proud group of Intrigues owners. I whole heartily agree that you should not have had that much trouble with a 12k mile 1-year old car. Whether or not anyone agrees, I fully believe that it happens more than any ones cares to admit. I had just as many problems [and maybe more] in my short 18-months of ownership of a "Brand New" GL.
My advice is, if you can do what the previous owner did "Dump it". Yep, cut your loses and move on. I got lucky broke even.
Tshramm ::: rumors has it that the 2004 model year there will be a new TL release. And Acura has a reputation of one-upping the competition. The new Accords should be a winner as well [1-up also]. I have had my Acura CL almost 2 years [23k miles], and been it has been absolutely wonderful, NO regrets, plus I get plenty of compliments on it. My wife will be getting it in a couple of years when I start my search for a replacement. Top of the list is the TL-S, G-35, and who knows what else. All I do know is it will not be a domestic brand.
Cad. CTS ::: Saw it in person ughh what a disappointment, it looks better in pictures rather than real-time. I predict that this will be a loser.
RELIABILITY ::: Is not a myth, quality control [QC] or the less lack of it is a real problem with many domestic plants. Yes, they [domestic] are better, but still way behind, don't think they will ever catch-up. GM simply does NOT have company wide level of excellent QC, some vehicles are better than others depending on the QC procedures at that plant. For example, it much easier to "broad-brush" statement that all Toyotas/Honda/Nissan are excellent/good vehicles, but with GM/Ford/DC it is a very hit and miss adventure [best to do your homework boys and girls].
Carry-on gentlemen.
Its glad to see someone else here glad to dump their Intrigue. Lets face it nobody here wants an Intrigue. Its an unreliable, basic, unappealing flubby rental fleet car. Its like a Taurus or Impala. You buy it because its all you can afford. I sure as heck didn't want this car when I bought it but it was nicer than a Mailbu and Grand Am so I bought it. At least a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry are reliable and much more fun to drive and if you put MODS on them have tons of attitude.
Next I will buy a used Lexus or Acura.
I like the Volkswagen Passat and the rest of the Volkswagen lineup which is available in Canada. Unfortunately, Volkswagon is not in Canada and I have never heard of a Volkswagon Passet. I'm surprised I've never heard of Volkswagon, what with all the American media available here.
What are we missing? It must be time for a roadtrip south for me.
ian18, your dealer is misled about the Intrigue and timing belt replacement. The Intrigue has timing chains as do nearly all GM cars. In fact, the only recent Olds with a timing belt was the 91-96 Cutlass Supreme with the 3.4 liter DOHC V6. The 3.5 shares alot of it's design with the Northstar series of engines and those are stellar engines.
The best move to make on tires was replacing those Goodyear LS's with Dunlop SP Sport A2's. The ride is quieter and it handles great.
This is my second Intrigue ('98 Autobahn) and the mileaage on my last trip for Tahoe to LA was 32.9. I couldn't believe the numbers either. I've been running about 1500 miles per week lately and this car WILL run to 200,000 miles. Regretfully, the idiots at GM abandoned Olds and what should have been an ongoing approach to QC.
A good car that could have been great. Too bad that the General thought Buick was their future.
No timing belts in the 3.5. Your dealer is whacked. Time to find one that actually knows what is in the 3.5. This guy probably thinks the pushrods in your engine must be hiding on him.
What are those two extra valves for?.........
Let's recap- car rode like a shopping cart til I put on STBs (front & back). This improved handling and eliminated much of the harshness and gave the car a tighter feel.
Ride still to firm to my liking though. Removed front sway bar. This made ride more comfortable as the front springs were allowed to absorb more road irregularities as opposed to the bar adding resistance. Removed the rear bar and ride improved even more for the same reason. Small bumps, dips, turns on uneven surfaces, etc., are all much more comfortable.
Yokohamas installed. Ride is now excellent. Steering rate is more to my liking too. Instead of ending up in the next lane by moving the wheel 1 iota, there's now some understeer which I like a lot. Steering is easier at highway speeds now. Don't have to muscle it as before.
You may be thinking, if the ride is excellent now, why the Sensatracs? Because I'm on a roll and Sears is running a promo. Ain't doing it there though cuz they can't get all parts for 4 days and I got someone else to match price. Plus, I don't want to deal with this jounce bumper/strut bearing crap anymore so new mounts and Strutmate Bootkit will be included.
Perhaps I'll experiment with the swaybars again later (depending on how the Sensatracs affect the ride- if at all) but I doubt it.
Moonshadow- thanks for the info.
legero8 : You say something different every post. First you love VWs and then you say I'm buying a used Lexus or Acura. You won't admit there is a possibility your car was abused and come here and insult our intelligence and our cars. What do you expect, a "welcome aboard" greeting? Sell your Intrigue junk and get something else if it's so bad. Intrigue is junk, you are so right. You and jgriff should start your own thread.
The Toyota is the same way.
Thje intrigue is not flubby. In fact most people complain about its suspension being too sporting and firm.
Sorry you are having problems with the car. If they continue, sell it and move in.
You mention you bought an Intrigue because it's all you could afford, but you also said you were looking at some other cars too (one of them being Japanese). Obviously, then, you bought it because it seemed like the nicest car for the money, not because you couldn't afford anything else. If it seemed like the worst car for the money, then what does that say about you for buying it? If you make your living as a writer, then it's no surprise it's all you could afford... I'm sure the Lexus and Acura boards are just giddy in anticipation of you posting your retarded comments there.
Oldsman01, VCJumper was kidding about the lack of VW's in Canada. He was just making fun of Legero8's inability to spell correctly.
...message from a Host to follow...
The door lock electrical connector can be unpluged after the the little trim plate is removed. However, i'm sure that you would have seen that.
sorry for any confusion.
We went to arbitration yesterday with the BBB and it was truly a lesson in restraint. The representative from GM was reading from a prepared script. I have to send a follow-up letter this morning. Bottom line is we would be very satisfied with this car if after paying $25,000 the headlights remained ON at night. This auto-dimming feature was not listed on the window sticker. Won't know the results for 10-15 days.
JP
I seriously doubt that Legero8 car was abused, more like it was trouble-prone, and the other owner simply did NOT want to deal with all the repeat problems.
People dump their vehicles for only 2 reasons (a) they are simply tired of them or (b) there are too many problems both fixable & un-fixable. Best to buy the type A vehicle.
b4z ::: you are correct in that the S-type has had its share of "unpublished" transmission problems. And it initially caused me to be a bit concern, however I have the lowly 225hp version which has not had any problems. Some people are speculating that the problem is three-fold, 1) being that the torque converter can't handle the 260hp load, 2) the sport-shift is the causing problems [timing], 3) some people have been abusing their cars, both stocked and modified.
God knows it is not a perfect world.
racer_x_9 ::: I agree with you that there are a lot of similarity between both the Acura & Honda lines, only time will tell if they chose to widen the gap who knows. Mocks ups of the new Accords look very promising. You can't tell me, that the Intrigue and Regal/Century don't look a lot a like.
jjpowell2 ::: I feel for you man, I've read your saga/headaches over the past months/year. Good Luck to you, don't let them get you down and I hope it ALL comes out in your favor.
Me, after 3.5 repairs on the "intermediate steering shaft" [plus countless others] I knew it was never going to properly get resolved, and it would be years before GM came up with a permanent solution. I myself never went as far as arbitration as I've always heard that it is a huge UP-hill battle, instead chose to cut my loses.
Face it guys, you've couple of choices either "Love" your cars [both good & bad] or "Leave" them. It is that simple.
They also couldn't tell an Oldsmobile apart from a Buick, Pontiac, or Chevy.
And you won't likley find those people on this board. To those who can't easily tell one car from another, or think that looks are the only difference, cars are simply a utility.
But drive an Accord (or an Intrigue, for that matter)and then drive an Acura TL. Anyone who can't see a dramatic difference isn't alive! Can't say the same between the Intrigue and a Grand Prix. Look different? Sure. Really that different when driving? Nope - still easily identifiable as a GM mid-sizer.
I know that some people with SUV's have problems, but that is usually after 70K plus miles.
Not too bad on a 5500lb vehicle with 300+lbs of torque.
I wonder how well they will hold up with ever increasing power levels and huge increases in torque?
The acura is a high revving engine, that apparently has something to do with it.
Evidently they can handle the power but not the 7000 rpm shifts.
Both the intrigue and aurora shift below their redlines. Maybe GM does this on purpose.
The one weak link to the GM transmission in the Wbodies is the lack of a limited slip differential.
The grand prix guys have blown up more than a few.
As an editor I appreciate wholeheartedly the comments about Volkswagen (gon) and Passat (et). Very nice. Dindak and jgriff need to go have a beer together or something and quit bickering. As I've said before, I appreciate hearing about other people's experiences both good and bad and even you gotta admit, Dindak, that jgriff's points are articulate unlike a certain recent somebody.
Anyway, I'd like to spark some interest on what a redesigned 2003 or 2004 Intrigue would've looked like. I know, I know, it's dining on ashes but still, I'd be curious to find out what y'all think. I believe a redesigned Intrigue would look very similar to the 2001 Aurora, specifically I would imagine them adding air intakes to the front bumper and incorporating the air dam into the front fascia. I would imagine the interior could take certain cues from the Aurora, possibly with a gated shifter. I would imagine the car would be trimmed and made leaner as well. Anyone else have any ideas?
Most of you surely realize - don't you? - that when you react heatedly to a posted message, the only thing you have accomplished is to encourage the person who irritated you to continue.
All of that said, and from a strictly neutral stance since I have never had any feelings about an Intrigue, positive OR negative, it seems to me that some of you just need to lighten up a bit.
We all know that no matter how wonderful we feel any given vehicle is, ANY line of production can come up with a lemon, or two, or three.
My sense from reading this discussion for a long time now is that most folks here have not had the problems that some folks have had.
But please remember that just because YOU didn't have the problem someone else has posted about does not mean that problem did not occur.
Okay? Can we call a truce and move on now?
Pat
Sedans Host
Typically, a lot of people tend to "move up" relative to their car purchases. While not dissing the Inrtigue, I view my purchase of an Acura TL as a step up from the Intrigue. Yes, it's more expensive, and yes, it is a higher quality, as well as more luxurious, car. However, I will not be giving up anything relative to performance and driving experience. On the contrary - read the Edmund's reviews (and virutally everyone else's) of the TL, and you'll find it's also a step up from the Intrigue in every area. The Intrigue has been great, but it's time to move on. No regrets at all.
As for the 04 Regal, I'm glad Lutz scrapped the model I saw in Popular Mechanics last year, It was awful if it was real. Current Regal looks good and I think an evolution from that with some better Intrigue like handling would be all good.
I don't deserve this. Riding a horse is better than driving an Intrigue. Every car on the road is better than a Intrigue. Its been out of the shop for one week. ONE WEEK and now it needs to go back. How can anyone make such an unreliable piece of junk? This is uncalled for and I will be getting an attorney I have had enough with Oldsmobile.
oldsman: anything is better an an intrigue. Maybe to you going to the shop for repairs 4 times a year is common..but NOT for me! I want something that will actually run!
I think I speak for every new/use car owner, NO one want/need problems with their new purchase. We all want to believe that we made a very "WISE" choice and are blessed with nothing but carefree "FUN" driving vehicle [period]. There is nothing worse than that pit feeling in your stomach that you just signed a $25K mistake, and worse yet having to live with it, until you no longer are in 'negative-equity' territory.
BTW, just curious how many Acuras have you own?? And are you using your own 1980's Honda experience to compare to today's GM model? Your blanket lumping of all Honda and Acura models together is like, saying that Lexus & Toyota are totally the same. You might as well classify Cadillac as Chevy's, all on the same level. [Get Real]. You are being totally bias towards Oldsmobile, when the possible real numbers may state otherwise. It is NO coincidence that Camry & Accords sale to the excess of 800,000 per year. And that did not just happen overnight, there is a real hard-core reason for their success, and one of them is that they have simply built a "better mouse-trap". Pssst, in case you did not know it, I'll let you into a little secret, most people prefer to buy trouble-free vehicles, especially when spending what one feels is a lot of money.
So the $64,000 question is why did GM choose to close-up the Oldsmobile shop? After 18-months to ponder since the big announcements, do you have any real good reasons/answers to that question? Do you think if they [GM] had a real money-maker on their hands that they would have closed the doors? I think NOT, Business-101: it is ALL about the numbers [making money] and generating a "PROFIT", pure and simple. Shareholders don't really care that much about a 100-year plus history, bottom-line are we making a profit, IF NOT then fix it.
Oldsman01 ::: No, you won't find a TL for 24k, but you might get to the 28k price, and the bonus is it won't depreciate 50% or more in two years either, so I'll let you do the math. Ask yourself why are there more same-age used Intrigues than TL on the market? ALL cars depreciate, and some more than others, i.e. Lexus happens to be one of the best for holding their original value.
And briefly [off the top of my head] I'll state some of the differences between the Intrigue vs. the TL. (1) Faster 0-60 6.7 vs. 7.9 or 8.1. (2) 4yr/50k warranty vs. Olds standard 3/36. (3) 5-speed auto vs. 4 (4) Sport-shift vs. none (5) Xenon lights [which are another must have safety feature] (6) 6-CD in dash vs. single or trunk mounted (7) Better resell, hence less depreciation (8) most Acura dealers offer free loaners for services appt. (9) subjective opinion here [and my experience], better reliability. (10) simply better quality.
I guess you can say that one gets what one pay for, you know like saying that an Intrigue is better than say a Chevy Cavalier [I think you know what I mean].
I thank all of you for allowing me to speak from the Edmunds forum soapbox. I only wanted to express my heartfelt opinion, and NO way intended to offend/hurt anyone, and if I did please accept my most sincere apologies.
So now go converse amongst yourselves.