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white6::::::Good Cuda story!! I know nothing about the Aquatread tire but 80k warranty for a $100 tire sounds great. One thing about the second of tires is that the tight suspension is somewhat gone and the whole front end is becoming sloppier so will a high priced tire really be of any benefit. The LS tire wears like a speed rated tire--hoping to get 40k miles..Another decision coming up..What service bulletin covers the alternator replacement???? My dealer is getting a little plexed with me and my second Intrigue. I am getting a little plexed with the car.
ketch::::::When GM made the decision to take the new Cutlass away from Olds after the 98 model that spelled the end of the line..The new Aurora was too far along to kill for it would never generate enough volume to save the division. GM literally put Olds out business by slowly cutting their product lines and blaming it on low sales. They had nothing to sell. If GM announced that Aurora was going to Cadillac it would be a surprise but it may be the only out available because of the engine..
The 300 and Chrysler may be extinct unless they get their act together; its rumored that Honda might buy them..The Germans marched over and took all their cash after the merger and went on a shopping spree. Penske unloaded Detroit Diesel at a giveaway price to the Germans and cost me a few bucks..
The 300 is selling at a nice discount during these difficult times and the Dodge Intrepid R/T can be had in the low 20s. The question I have about R/T edition is whether the suspension has been tweaked or did they add 17" wheels plus the 3.5 detuned V-6 and hype sport qualities??? I didn't see anything about the suspension mentioned in their brochure..The heavy setup is good for 100K without fail..
bz4::::::No DTS since it is a Deville with stiff struts and bucket seats..I will get wifey a one yr old STS with less than 10k miles. After 3 new Cadillacs I have better ways to spend money foolishly, so the heavy metal will be bought used but not abused..
The Detroit Auto show opens tonight with a black-tie bash @ $300/head and tomorrow it is open to the public for $10.00/head--seniors and kids discounted.
Olds has space at the show; could be the final prayer service...or maybe they will drag out the OSVs to tease the diehards. I imagine that attendance will be off this year due to the downturn in sales and the lack of factory overtime will dampen the lust for a new car.. There is some bigtime trouble ahead..this soft landing bullcrap is a joke. When the Big Three sputter its night-night time in the Motor City.
I see where Toyota is increasing production this qtr by 3%. I also read where "we are still begging the Japanese to allow us to sell our autos on their mainland without their restrictions." Isn't FREE TRADE great!!!!!
1415, you really should consider the new Devilles. Even in base form, the suspension is a much better design than the older ones. Too bad the Japanese don't have a free trade policy like we do. Hey, what do you think the economy is going to do? You think it's going to tank soon? I'm looking forward to next Saturday, the "you know what" party will FINALLY be out of the White House. What do you guys think, will Bush's new presidential limo be a Caddy or a Lincoln? I'd like to see it be a Caddy based on the new Deville, but since Clinton's was a Caddy and they often alternate, it may be a Lincoln.
Camry 1999=448,162/2000=422,961
Accord 1999=404,192/2000=404,515
Interestingly the Camry sold about 6,800 more cars in Dec. than the year before.
Accord sold about 2,400 cars in Dec. than the year before.
This does not bode well for the domestics, the Asians are taking market share little by little.
I think it was Lee Iaccoca who said, "Lead follow
or get out of the way".
I think GM is trying their best to get out of the way.
They gave a glowing review of the 2001 Intrigue.
The car they tested was a GL with chrome wheels and PCS. The PCS badge was clearly visible below the Oldsmobile badge on the trunk, but the car did not have the rear spoiler! I have done a lot of research and the spoiler is standard with PCS.
And there doesn't seem to be a way to delete it.
How did AWI get that car optioned like that?
You can get PCS without the spoiler i n the GL.
If you get the GLS the spoiler comes with it.
For our younger readers and everyone's eagerness to learn about today's world and how come the Asians are eating our lunch; I would recommend a trip to the library for a book titled; "Agents of Influence" by Pat Choate, best seller in 1990. It explains how Japan manipulated America's political and economic system with their brand of corruption which still is rampant today.
Yes!!!I am old enough to remember Frigidaire, Harrison, Airtemp, and Dec 7, 1941....Nippondenso the large Japanese outfit has a plant in the cornfields of Micigan called Michigan Automotive Compressor which cranks out a/c compressors for the transplants and Chrysler..
Yes, we have a new occupant for the palace, and the family leaving is just moving down the street
so we will be hearing his thoughts daily..The young Ford Chairman leans a left and maybe that was to keep the trial lawyers away from Dearborn. however dubya is usually seen in a Chevy SUV, so maybe GM will rule the fleet.
I am leaving CHAD COUNTY, Florida on 1/29 and sending the furniture to storage. Both Marion and Sarastoa counties supported the case in Nov; so either one is a safe haven.
I was wrong on the entry fee for the opening night bash of the Detroit Auto Show; it's $350/a head instead of the $300 of last year.
Got alot of chores to do around the house because its off to Fla next Friday to start the move. This sudden decision to depart from CHAD county is cutting two months of my wife's away time out--sad. She hasn't driven in snow for 11 1/2 yrs...should buy her a tank...
Will catch the board later...Ernie Els is playing great golf and must watch tonight for he needs to increase his lead so he can coast Sunday. Tiger can work on his concession speech..
I know Harlan said that he was working on interior details for 2002, but really, couldn't they use the capacity at KC for GPs or even just layoff some workers with the anticipated market slow downs?
Of course, these employee cutbacks are a joke. Anybody who knows how GM runs internally must wonder how they make a dime. According to my father in law, GM will pay employees $60K to transfer. They also just offered early retirement to employees in some car plants that if your 55 or over, they'd credit your pention has having worked until 60 to encourage workers to hang it up. Unfortuneatly for my father-in-law, no such program at the plant he works at because they still run three full shifts and no layoffs are anticipated.
1415: No flex that I can remember. It's winter so the window only opened once at the BK drive through. ;-) Alero is nice, just lacks the overall refinement of Intrigue. I think the fit and finish on Alero is better though.
etharmon: Interesting. The Monte Carlo is growing on me, especially with the 2001 spoiler update which looks better. Saw a black one today. Still prefer a GP or and Intrigue though.
ickes: I predict Intrigue will die after 2002. Grand Prix production is moving for the new 2003 model to Oshawa ON and I suspect that will be when Kansas is converted for a new line of cars or trucks.
The next rebate to be tied to the Olds line is an old Buick favorite----AARP membership discount..I do automotive parts; but I don't get involved with a supplier discount program for various reasons.
Right now I am dickering with two Fla moving companies on pricing; I find that they a slippery people, rating worst than a used car salesperson or a stockbroker.
Is the 3.4L a 2 or 4 valve setup; seems like it is the old 2 valve deal???
I didn't buy the Automotive News for it is rather mundane stuff; and my Canadian source keeps me informed of the SUV happenings. At my stage in life the greatest thing the Automotive world can do is pay their damn invoices on time for any slow as stated earlier is an excuse to skip a few days. I had two meetings with a large stamping supplier whom I supply with a component and they are starting to play the game.
Gotta hit the kitchen now!!!!! The main course will be Salmon (broiled) brown rice, green beans, and a salad. Dessert will be yogurt and 2 super martinis before the meal...
He has a pretty blue intrigue
that has no options. It doesn't even have leather steering wheel, cd player, and power seat.
He is going to eat that car. It will probably be sitting there next fall.
That stripper Intrigue on the lot could probably be had dirt cheap and made nice with a katzkin interior job and aftermarket stereo.
In fact, yes, I can see the Aurora in the Chevy lineup. I bet they'll even cut the 4.0 and the 3.5 and sell it with the 3.4 standard (sarcasm).
So, has anyone else heard of any similar news? (no opinions, thank you). It would be interesting.
Oh yeah, before I forget, an Intrigue with no options....(post 860) now that would be a chevy candidate!
I could be paranoid or simply expressing my anger at GM for killing Olds, but this is starting to bother me. As mentioned before, its a 2000 with PCS (build date around 11/99).
Your thoughts will be appreciated. I take it to my dealer (under new ownership) next week.
dwg
P.S. Watch the Martinis 1415.
We are stuck with these oddballs and will have to make the best of it. Maybe the auto thieves will put them on their hot list due to lack of low priced parts available thru the regular dealer network. The downside is that our insurance company has the car undervalued in relation to its original pricing!!!!
Ernie Els really came apart on the back nine today.
As for Olds and 2002, my bet is the Intrigue and the rest of the models will return for 2002. That will probably be the last year for the Intrigue and Silhouette while the Aurora, Bravada, and Alero carry on for another year or so before the entire brand in completely phased out. From what I hear, the W-bodies and minivans are being replaced for 2003, so this would make sense to drop those two models after 2002. Well, as much sense as one can make as the entire decision to drops Olds was rather foolish. After a week with his new Intrigue, my co-worker is still very much impressed with his new car. As for Chevy getting the Alero and Aurora, I can see them getting the Alero as it would slot very nicely in there above the Cavalier(too costly to replace the Cav) and would be a sportier compliment to the Malubu. The Aurora does not fit the brand as well though. Buick or Cadillac would be a better place for the Aurora.
1415, I could go for a Martini about right now. If it wasn't so cold outside, I'd get in the Intrigue and drive down to this neat little club thats close to me and have a few. Maybe meet some ladies while I'm there:) Anyway, I agree with you on the Japanese. Sure they have a good product, but so does Olds. As my co-worker(the new Intrigue owner) says, "why would someone spend more money and get less car?" Less power, less sophistication, less style, and fewer features than the Intrigue has. And in his case, less warranty and higher interest rates? I don't think the 60 months at 0.9% is still available(at least not right now) but even the 60 months at 3.9% which is on right now is better than your typical car loan. And the 5 year 60,000 mile warranty is a big advanatge. To buy an extended warranty like that would probably be $1000 or more(bumper to bumper with no deductable). Call me a Republican, but I like to get the most out of my money and not just blow my hard earned $$. And find me a midsize sedan under 30K that has a stability control system.
Though, there is no such a thing as "a base Impala LS". LS means luxury, not base. The same with Intrigue: even the cheapest GX is too expensive to many people.
Not only it is possible to buy a Chevy Impala (and MC) for less than $20k, but a lot of people are really doing this. Plus the fleet sales: rental cars, etc.
The same is true with Pontiac GP SE, Buick Century. Only Oldsmobile did not offer a W-body car in the price segment. Alero is too small for a lot of mainstream customers.
We do not know about the other makes, but with Buick it is absolutely clear: two "cheap" Century are sold for every "expensive" Regal. Extrapolating, we can assume that 2/3 Impala bought are the base ones, as well as 2/3 of GP are GP SE.
On the other hand, Oldsmobile pursued only "the most rich" 1/3 of the potential customer base, and this turned to be not efficient.
People go to the dealership to look on the car, take a drive, than are buying a loaded copy. There is a special wording for such a trick. Bait and switch or something in this kind.
Sometimes the bare thing is silly, nobody hope to sell them in reasonable quantity. E.g. the bare Malibu have no power mirrors, nor defroster for the rear window. Though, have air condition and tachometer.
Expect the bait cars to sitting till end of year, then being disposed at substantial loss. Do not sympathize with dealer, this is deliberate.
insurance) that the sportier version would not fit in their budget or lifestyle. So they bought the more sedate version, but at least they bought something.
GM doesn't have anything that can build traffic now. I understand that LS-1 Impala V8 was killed.
OSV will never happen, The performance cavalier and malibu versions have never shown up.
Etc. etc. the list goes on, Gm has been so conservative in the last ten years i am surprised that they are on anyone's shortlist.
The only thing that my olds dealer has to offer is stripper intrigue with a big $21,999 written across the windshield. That will build a lot of traffic,yeah right.
I blame it on the Proctor and Gamble soap guy, and all the complacent executives drawing the big salary.
Just finished reading "the fall of the Packard Motor Company" and i am starting to see some parallels. Maybe in another twenty years GM will cease to exist.
Alero sales 2000=122,722
Alero sales Dec. 1999=8,787
Alero sales Dec. 2000=8,199
It appears to be selling pretty well.
The alero is badged as a chevrolet in europe.
Data is from www.autosite.com
The last couple of days i have been in the Sabaru Impreza WRX site. The specs on this car are incredible. 3085 lbs. 227 hp AWD 0-60 in 6.1 secs.
for $24,000. I am definitely interested. It appears to be a little small, but i could have some serious fun in that car. Reliving the sliding sideways around corners days of my misspent youth would be a blast.
The dealer is 4 miles from the house and I was having the 98 lemon GLS serviced there until I got peeved..Their service area floor is a skating rink of oil & dirt and the protective paper mat after the end of the service fix was oil soaked.
300Ms are beig priced out at 25,500, stripped 4 cyl Camrys are sale priced at 16,999 or 199/mo on a 4yr lease..
How about a 2001 Prowler for 46,225?
No Camaros or Firebirds shown in the new car ad section; quess it is not a winter car or they don't feel like wasting money advertising since they are fallen angels..
Well it appears that the Giants will clobber the Vikings this afternoon..
Went ouside to see if I could break up the icedams on the roof for the water is about to affect some interior walls. The area around the valleys is bad and the gutters never the valleys are iced a foot high..Just love global warming!!!
I fell on by backside so I just called the fellow who does the snow plowing and lawn mowing to see if that thief would be interested in earning 200 to clear some snow..
Ron Zarrella was interviewed by Business Week this week. He assures the interviewer that Buick and GMC are not the next on the chopping block. I don't know about GMC, but Buick has a niche already (albeit one that is aging). They'll have to attract younger buyers without alienating the AARP crowd like my folks. Perhaps GM can revive the Buick name plate the way Chrysler was revived in the '90s. Speaking of Chrysler, the Sunday Financial Times of London reports that Deutsche Bank and the Kuwaiti Government (DC's largest shareholders) have basically given Schrempp 6 months to show a realistic turn around plan. There is talk of a break-up if things don't turn around quickly. GM, Ford and Honda were all mentioned as potential suitors for parts of DC. Interesting stuff.
Giants and Ravens in the Super Bowl.
Giants: 16 - 10. Then PGA and College BBall seasons begin in earnest.
dwg
1415: 3.4L is a 2 valve set up.
bz4: A friend of mine works at the Oshawa plant (home of the other W-bodies) and he said the plan being talked about is that 2002 will be the end. That being said, production may wrap up early for 2002 models if sales continue to fall. All 2003 w-bodies will be made in Oshawa when Grand Prix production is moved.
RE: Oldsmobile models. Alero will likely replace Malibu in 2003. Malibu is a dude and Alero would serve well as a Chev. Intrigue technology will likely be transposed to the next Buick mid-size. Aurora will likely go to Buick as it doesn't fit Cadillac at all.
The main advantage of the GA/Alero is its 3.4l V-6. It have much better torque than the 3.1l engine in Malibu.
On the other hand, the rear seats of GA are cramped. Substantially less legroom, plus the low roof makes hard to get in/out. OK for occasional drive, but a pain for the regular use.
Our son was only 8 then, but it was still inconvenient to drive him around in GA. With two kids, or with older / bigger kids, or with an infant / toddler in a safety seat it would be even worse.
I would recommend Alero to a single person or childless couple, but it is not a good family sedan. For a family with one-two kids Malibu is much better car. With three or more kids you need a minivan...
Other differences are less important, imho.
The Caddy pricing does not include the PCS feature that comes std on the 4.0..The 4.0 auto
is the same one as used in the Caddy(4T80E).
The pricing is based on all the sweetheart deals on the table at Olds and no deals at Caddy except both based on dealer cost.
With sales tax included and all the options on the 4.0; should be able to do $31,500.
The Impala is the only W-body car that already meets year 2003 Government safety requirements and also the only one that has scored the highest in crash tests (5 Stars front and 4 stars side without the side airbags!). At the Insurance Institute for Highway safety offset tests, the Impala also scored higher than its other W-body peers. The Regal and Grand Prix models all meet 1997 Government safety requirements, hence they have scored lower in all the safety tests (4 Stars front and 3 stars side). The Olds Intrigue is the only W-body car that has the lowest side crash test results...only 2 stars! I can't understand why the 'more expensive and sophisticated' Intrigue has the worst safety results of all W-body cars? Less sheetmetal perhaps? This is another 'Nail' in the Intrigue's standing in safety crashworthiness issues.
Safety sells, and it is a paramount factor for most buyers in the family sedan market.
This also translates in lower insurance premiums....my yearly premium on my Impala is a joke versus the Intrigue.
I don't want to 'trash' the Intrigue because otherwise I believe it is a very nice car, but I find unacceptable the poor safety and protection this car offers vs the lowest priced and less sophisticated variants of the W-body family.
When you have to drive even one kid, it turns rather important how fast and easy he gets into / out of the car. Daily drive to school and back, several times a week to after school activities, and rather often to their friends, to dentist, doctor etc. Plus the American law practically require to take kids with you when you are shopping, to buying groceries etc. I believe, the same with Canadian law, and probably with other laws of Anglo-Saxon descent.
The ease of getting to the rear seats is even more important with securing the safety seats - if you have smaller children.
With the short trips, the rear space is not important. But it is paramount for kids comfort at longer trips.
The rear space is especially important with teenagers, who often are higher than their parents. Given the new car, in average, will be replaced only 8 year later, it is reasonable though to forecast the needs even when the kids are just went to school, or even earlier.
And, of course, with kids you always care about their safety. This is instinctive.
In my past lives I have owned 5 Impalas all V-8s,2 Biscaynes, and 1 BelAir. The neatest one was the 60 yellow conv. w/348 ci V-8, bought new and the first day of ownership the fuel pump sprang a leak. My first car to drive on the highway was a 48 Chev Fleetmaster 4dr with vacuum shift. Built like a tank, rolled it the first year and father put it in the repair shop for 6 mos.; and then I got into a 50 Ford Crestliner V-8 shift w/overdrive.
Airbags, seatbelts, and the additional safety items associated with the overall govt mandated equip on a car today is awesome..In the old days before the current safety edicts, and other regulations they had more flexibility in building cars and did some radical year to year changes. Those good old days are gone because nothing is really changed over a 5 yr period due to required testing needed to change and implement a feature. The public asked for it and the car gets more expensive and blander::::::engines stay the same horsepower, no annual hp increase, dull face lift that nobody notices..
Enjoy the Impala because the car is a well thought out reliable mode of going from A to B. Good trade in value...My Safety requirements hinge around the handling aspect of the driving cycle to avoid the collision. The govt has never made any headway on improving brakes other than the ABS feature.
Everybody spends so much time trying to make a car crash proof our level of product performance suffers. The public insists on an idiot-proof car to offset the effects of bad driving.. tough task.
Wrong on both counts. I have a 2 month old daughter and the Intrigue is the vehicle she travels in most often. While I don't discount your concern for safety, I have to agree with 1415 that there is more to safety than crash tests. I am confident when driving the Intrigue and I can't say that about most cars I have driven in this price range. I am very concerned about the well being of my baby and I am also satisfied that my Intrigue will protect her just fine if I can't steer clear of an accident.
Because the way the tests are done by the govt. are not proven to be reproducable, and
are flawed enough to make any ratings hard to take at face value. Those who do can
expect to be mislead. Experts agree on this, and recent 'rollover tests" again prove the futility of NHTSA. As 1415 said "My Safety requirements hinge around the handling aspect of the driving cycle to avoid the collision", and so this is why such cars as the Intrigue are in fact perhaps safer in the real world. I have two kids, and this was a serious benefit when buying.
Peace
Other finalists is the Maxima - ugly car but wow, what a drive. Smooth, quiet, handles like a dream, very neutral. Good resale, higher insurance, high cost.
Also considering the Olds Intrigue GLS with PCS. Like interior a lot, engine revs like a import, nice and smooth, good power, good handling, comfortable seats with full power adjustment, lots of leg room. Misses - not as good handling as the Maxima based on my limited test drive, headroom with sunroof puts ceiling just skimming my head both front and back. Have to tilt seat back. Seats lack side bolsters like Maxima and other performance cars. Guess GM knows americans are big and fat. Too bad I'm not, and I slide around on the seat.
Anyone have comments? I am looking at used for the Max and Olds, since I have seen what depreciation looks like -- and it becomes your friend as a used buyer. One problem is the tons of GX and literally NO GLS's and very few GL's in Houston area so far.
Slope
slopedirk: Most of the GX models are likely former fleet or rental cars. I would look for a GL, 2000 or better. I have a GL with upgraded stereo/ wheel controls and spoiler. Best car I have ever had. The Maxima isn't bad, but it's not as nice to look at and requires premium fuel.
I'll concede that dash covers are an especially dorky looking device. (But I suppose that beats driving around with a black towel on the dashboard of a new Intrigue....) Anyone know a good fitting supplier?
Did you treat your dash with an especially shiny protectant?
Closed on my little condo yesterday. This means
that i will have to work harder to make that mortgage payment. So i can't hang out with you guys as much anymore. LOL.
I am leasing a GX, I hope its not confused with the rental cars you guys were talking about.
My GX has cd, power driver seat, leather wheel,console and shifter,keyless and airfilter.
The only Intrigues i ever see for sale are former rental cars and off lease vehicles. You never see an intrigue for sale by a private party.
swagled : What color is your dash. I have dark gray and it's fine.
The Maxima is a sweet car, but does not have an independent rear suspension. I have also heard of transmission problems with them. If you do buy the Max i would get an extended warranty.
I am not sure if i will get leather. It can get to be 100 degrees in S.C.
I wouldn't get the GLS due to the chrome wheels and the bundling of options.
If you get stuck with only a couple of posts on the screen you can go back to the beginning of the discussion, then scroll to the end of the discussion and it will display the last 20 posts.
Edmund's really needs to make this more user friendly.
I also doubt that the impala would do significantly better than the intrigue in a real world test....i mean accident.