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Comments
Everyone, thanks for your answers to my questions.
We also are looking hard at a maxima, and the dealer has both cars (olds/nissan dealer), but still can't decide.
I dislike the flabby damping of the suspension on the intrigue and flat seats, but otherwise I really like the near "muscle car" personality it has, and the seats, features like PCS which I would get.
Do you regret not getting the nissan, or are you happy with the Olds? I think we'd be happy with either one. Its just convincing my wife we won't be taking it back to the dealer all the time for work in the next 5 years.
S
In other words, Slope, make sure that the Intrigue will be the car that will make you REALLY happy not for 1 year or 2 years but for 4, 5 years and beyond. Think about it really well. Not just what you like about the vehicle today (Its new after all) but if you will be willing to live with its shortcomings, problems, rattles, etc??? Dindak, will tell you that the Intrigue is the greatest thing since sliced bread...good for him as he truly enjoys his car, but what about YOU??? Use good judgement before deciding.
If you think you'll be bored with the car after 3 or 4 years of ownership and might be thinking of trading it or selling it for another future car that might spark some interest to you, then the Nissan Maxima will be the car to choose.
Think about it this way:
Olds Intrigue: Buy it with the mindset that you will be able to put up with its good points and its problems and that you will keep the car until you run it to the ground. Will you love this car after 3 or 4 years of ownership? Forget about trade in or resale value..these cars will be worthless in a couple of years.
Nissan Maxima: Use same criteria as above, but if you get bored with it, you can aspire to sell it on your own or trade it in and still have some money left over in the 'pocket'...you won't be able to get 'bored' with the Intrigue and think you'll have some money to buy something else.
Think about it CAREFULLY. The cure for BUYER'S REMORSE is usually VERY, VERY COSTLY, so choose and proceed with care.
Good luck.
kwf1: Have they replaced the crankshaft sensor yet? It may also be the battery. Mine was starting rough and finally one day it would not start and the battery died. Dealer replaced the battery and it started every time for about 4 months.
I was 27 when I bought my 99 Intrigue. I would trade its interior for a lot of different competitor car's interiors, but the rest is just right.
1. Maxima is not as good looking. The rear end of Maxima is particularly not attractive.
2. Maxima doesn't have independent rear suspension
3. Maxima requires premium fuel, so add at least 10-15% to your fuel bill
and
4. Maxima is no less reliable on average than Intrigue
I had really good luck with my previous 98 Grand Prix (it was totaled in February of last year), and coming from a troubled Honda Accord.. I had few reservations about getting another GM w-body. So far with 20K and almost a year of Intrigue, I am still very happy.
The one item that you have to watch is indeed re-sale. Intrigue is not as good as Accord or Camry because of supply and demand.
1. Intrigue is not as sought after on the re-sale market
and
2. There are lots of fleet Intrigues around where there are no Camrys or Accords.
As for Teo's comments on re-sale falling to "worthless", I disagree. Intrigue is part of a family of w-body cars and parts will be around for a long time. The Oldsmobile name is very well known and to most people it is just a midsize GM sedan, nothing more. Is re-sale great, not really. Will it get much worse with the demise of Olds, probably not.
On the other hand Teo is right, buy what you like. Maxima is a great car also and Intrigue is not the greatest thing since sliced bread (so there Teo ;-) Intrigue is also a very good car however. Either way, you won't go very wrong.
Good luck!
RC52, congratulations on your new purchase. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I've enjoyed my 98.
b4z, sounds like your dealer isn't wanting to sell a new car. I don't know all the ins and outs of leasing and breaking one is hard I'm sure, but if your financing through GMAC I can see them doing it as they will getting your business. You might not get quite as good of a deal if you do this as the dealer will probably have to eat the cost, but if you get a low interest rate, you'll save more in interest over the term of the loan than you would have probably gotten off the car anyway. With $400 for the salesman and $100 to the sales manager directly from GM for every new Olds sold, you'd think they would be more interested in selling you a new car. Even if it meant that they took a small loss on your lease.
Slopedirk, well on the bright side you'll get a loaner whenever your Olds is in for service. Actually, with either the Olds or the Nissan there may come a time when the car has to go in for service as no car is perfect. And remember, Olds is giving you a 5 year 60,000 mile full warranty compared to Nissan's 3 year 36,000 mile warranty.
The biggest loser in the domestic market will be Chrysler I fear..The vultures are flying around and the imports will pick up some along with GM and Ford..
The Asian mafia will continue to riddle our ecomony and I hope China will fade; for it is their goal to dismantle the American manufacturing scene and then we have no way to defend ourselves..Watch the basic industries of steel processing: forgings/castings,any industry where it is labor intensive. I supply shaped metal parts produced by closed dies or patterns..
China is the source that has been buying up all the used metalworking equipment for years. In order to build our army tanks we may have to rely on India or China..
Keep buying those foreign cars; and you may be get surprised some day where we are headed..
The deal that i am looking at is a 2001 GL with
PCS. If i pay invoice and get the $1500 owner's rebate and the $2000 olds rebate I will be able to purchase the car for about $20,000. If i take the normal intrigue depreciation over 12 months the car would be worth about $15,000.
A $5000 hit.
If I don't take the $2000 rebate and go with the 3.9% financing, the car will still only be worth $15,000 after a year.
A $7000 hit.
If I pay a higher interest rate like 7.99% over
60 months I can always pay it off early and save a little money.
and it will be worth at least $10,000.
Why would you lose the equity in the car you have now and then lease something and have nothing at the end?
It seems to me that you are in a great position right now, especially paying the car off early.
I wish I was in your shoes.
You are 6'3" I would definitely go with the intrigue. It has incredible front seat room.
I get 21-22 mpg in the city, 24 mpg in rural areas,
and 29 mpg at 79 mph.
The alero is not much better or maybe worse in the gas mileage department.
Also, I think I would go for the Intrigue instead of the Alero because of the room. The Alero has just enough room, but the leg room is a little tight for me. I liked the Intrigue when I drove it about a year or so ago. Guess it's time for another test drive, eh?
Also, I think CR's reliability data improved because the car had to work its first-year bugs out, like any car does. So it should be fine now.
I drive about 100+ miles round trip to work. The "average" miles most put on cars is anywhere from 12,000--15,000 miles/yr. Since mine is a 98 I should have about 36k--45k miles. Taking the low end numbers I have driven my car for the equivalent of almost 6 years. I still enjoy it very much. I have to say that it's easy to take the car for granted if it's the only thing you drive. The times I start thinking about giving it up (everyone does this with any car at some point) I drive my wife's Bonniville. A nice machine. But when I get back into my Intrigue I am quickly reminded why I got it. Another thing to do is to take it on some curves--winding country roads, drives or parkways(if you live in urban areas), or any place where you can really put it through its paces. You'll erase any thought of giving it up for something else. Except perhaps another Intrigue.
Problems: steering shaft, rotors, window motor and fuel door release. The last one really burned me up. The door wouldn't close flush so they replaced the part. Bill came to $23. The part was only FORTY NINE CENTS!!! I wish I had known that and replaced it myself! All except the fuel door were covered (even after warranty in the case of the shaft). I choose to get my own aftermarket rotors and be done with it. All in all, almost 70K later I don't think that's bad at all. Even Toyotas aren't perfect. Just ask the sucker...I mean, guy who bought my Camry after I traded it in on the Intrigue.
the reaction and success of the Olds 5/60 extended warrantee, that they are seriously
considering expansion to more divisions soon. What that does for Olds is unknown of
course, as some buyers shopping Olds due to the warrantee as one reason would be
able to get same at Pontiac for example. This of course would short circuit GM's premise
to offer said warrantee to move Olds inventory as the division is phased out. And so it goes,
GM never learns and once again will likely make a bad move in the long run, ending up
with more Olds stock than anticipated. Oh and also read the Aztek over at the 'excitement'
division (planned 75,000 units, so far for two months, 5000, and 2500 of this forced on GM
middle manager's no less) is getting an unprecedented second year makeover to correct some
styling gaffaws. No major sheetmetal changes this time, but lots of trim and cladding changes
are in the works for 2002. Seems kinda like trying to make over tammy faye, just pass the bag.
They attempt to put a candle in this cow pie, but its still not a birthday cake, all the while
going forward kill off its best cars across town at Olds. By the way, experts across the auto spectrum agree on that point.
Well, its hard to say exactly, but I generally keep a car a long time, yes. My current vehicle is a 1988 dodge shadow es turbo 5 speed 4 door, purchased new. Does that answer your question? (laughing)
Of course anyone buying one of these has to consider the cliff like depreciation and make their own decision.
I think of the olds like the older model american muscle cars, not the most sophisticated suspension or design, but the motor and trans are excellent, and the core of the vehicle should last a long time. Of course its not stone age, with PCS and a twin cam 3.5, but hope you get my drift.
Unfortunately, my wife drove the Passat with me last night and she really liked that car a lot, so even though I'd probably take the minor glitches with the olds, she wants the passat. It did drive nicely, but didn't seem to be the rocket that the olds was and seats are on other end of spectrum.
All for now,
Slope
Only other car I'd look at right now is the Regal GS. But something (aside from my wife) is telling me to wait and see what comes off this Epsilon platform. If Buick or Pontiac can pull an Oldsmobile-type rabbit out of the hat (such as Intrigue, Alero & Aurora) with the new platform, waiting might not be a bad thing.
The problem that i see with the intrigue's suspension is that the shocks are too soft and the struts are valved too hard.
It is still not as rough riding as the grand prix.
The passat is a beautifully built car. Did you sit in the backseat of that one? No headroom at all.
Remember if you have an engine problem with the passat, they will not replace it. They will give you a rebuilt engine. GM would never do that.
Food for thought.
The Passat should be a decent vehicle reliability wise, altough Volkswagens are known to be troublesome vehicles. The Passat is manufactured in Germany altough quality and relaibility seems to be the same whether the cars are built in Germany, Mexico or Brazil. I have heard that VW's built in Brazil seem to be better than the Mexican ones in reliability...I don't know. Remember the late 1980's VW Fox? That was a Brazilian designed and built VW. Some people talk wonders about them, others despise them.
I guess VW ownership is pretty much a crapshoot. The cars look sharp and assembly quality seems to be upthere in the best of European tradition; however the thing to watch out with VW's is actual component durability and reliability.
The Passat GLS 2.8L V6 seems to be a reasonably powerful car, but also consider the gasoline powered 1.8L Turbo which can easily be upgraded from 150HP to 200HP by means of an aftermarket chip. It is possible to get a nice Passat 1.8T with the Monsoon stereo (No leather, I think) for around $22 to $23K.
Last, keep in mind that the current Passat model has already beign discontinued and the new Passat 'Plus' version is coming out in about a month. The 1.8T will be rated at 170HP, I don't know the HP increase for the V6. Also expect a price hike and a short supply however.
I like the current model a lot otherwise and I would pick the Passat over the Maxima and mundane Accord V6 any day.
Just be careful with the VW warranty.
rc52: Good tip for the rough start/no start problem. I will try this on my '99 and maybe it will help. I have a file open with Oldsmobile for this problem, and every time I visit the dealership for an oil change I ask them to fix the problem. They haven't been successful yet. My suspension noises were cured by the steering shaft replacement however.
Concerning the 3.5l: Great engine. The new design already surpassed the 3.8 in high-rpm band. Several years later, after a lot of small improvements, it probably will surpass the old engine in the whole range.
It would be nice to have the engine available as option for Regal (not necessary GS). But currently I would prefer the blown 3.8.
Slopedirk, the Intrigue's suspension is pretty modern in terms of design. In fact, the Intrugue has a more modern rear suspension design than the Maxima does. The Maxima uses a beam axle rear suspension while the Intrigue(and nearly all other cars in this class) have independent rear suspension. As for the Passat, I don't know alot about them. Them seem to be more expensive than the Intrigue and I don't know how well VW dealers discount. Also, as previously stated, VW's basic warranty is 2 years 24,000 miles and only the powertrain is covered under their long warranty. Remember, with the Olds the 5 year 60,000 mile warranty is a bumper to bumper.
Teo, I didn't know the extended warranty was not valid in FL. That doesn't make alot of sense. As long as Major Gaurd has a Florida license number for it, it should be valid. Maybe you guys should write Jeb about that:) I'll have to look closely at the fine print next time I see the new Olds ad.
Having driven both a 3.8L and a 3.5L for extended periods, I prefer the 3.5L. The smooth operation and highway kick make it the winner in my books.
apparently the new passat is stiffer, roomier, and incorporates a version of PCS standard.
I like that sort of car, but I also like the Olds. Since my wife will be the main driver, she needs to "desire" the car, not just put up with it. She likes the olds, but seems more used to smaller manuverable cars.
Re: suspension - I knew some folks would get excited about my comments. Strut suspension is usually the cheapest engineering way to attach wheels to a car - I'd prefer double wishbones like the accord personally. But struts can work well.
b4z - saying the struts are too firm but shocks are too soft? I didn't look under the car too carefully, but I thought it had 4 struts and no shocks.
Does anyone have suggestions for aftermarket shocks? Should be same as other W chassis cars. I have KYB's on my shadow and they are gas charged, which raises the car a touch but they are firm but streetable. Personally on this car I'd prefer softer than KYB, but not sure what would work well. Maybe bilstein?
RE: passat - Yea, the dang things are not cheap. Wife says the olds would be fine tonight, I guess she can tell I like the car.
RE: intermediate steering shaft -- is there a fix for this? I can't figure a way to search these postings individually or I'd probably know that. Wonder if th car on the lot will need Alternator, steering shaft. If so, hard sell to tell wife it will need some fairly serious repairs in first year!
RE: alternator - I think I read there was a new alternator out that should be ordered if you have this trouble?
Thanks for all help, have fun in your cars. We'll figure out what we're doing eventually!
S
Though, the Regal tires are so-so, Goodyear Eagle LS. And with the floating driving you feel somewhat disconnected from the road.
When I drove a 01 GLS, I thought it was one of the quietest cars I've ever ridden in. But I read all about road noise. Are the 01's that much quieter does anyone know? My old car is very loud, so hard to compare but it seem equal to accord/passat/maxima by ear.
I drove on concrete and asphalt roads, at speeds up to 80 BTW.
Slope
http://www.edmunds.com/vehicles/2001/buick/regal/gs.html#whatsnew
or
http://www.gmfleet.com/productpreview/car/index.html
I believe, the same improved liners go with other 2001 W-cars, including Intrigue. At least, people on the Impala and/or Monte-Carlo boards are discussing the problem of 2000 mud flaps - they do not fit with 2001 Impala.
I meant to say the struts are valved too hard and the springs are too soft.
I would have put slightly heavier springs and slightly softer damping in the struts. This would have given the car less weight transfer and made the car ride more softly over small bumps.
The car actually handles big bumps and dips in the road better than the small ones. A phenomenon
that i have never experienced before.
I am pretty sure the 3.5L will get added (at least as an option) to the next generation Regal. If they do, and firm up the suspension.. who knows.
Flicker- Dealer said the new alternators wouldn't be in for a few weeks.
Rough start- I've always waited a few seconds after turning key ail crank (I guess I just thought you were supposed to let the system initialize--It doesn't say anything in the manual so it's probably not important) and I still get the rough start once in a while. It only happens when I've been driving around and engine is hot.
Front end (turning right/braking) noise- maybe on next visit I'll get lucky.
Interior Rattles/vibrations- Old dropped the ball big time in this area. At least on my car they did. Wouldn't bother me if I could find them.
Suspension- I will $$pay$$ for a softer setup if one is available as this will solve the interior rattle and human-body-jarring problem. Most trucks don't even ride as harsh as my car does. Someone please make a Regal suspension fit an Intrigue.
Although Intrigue handles better than Regal, it's not by much. I don't even think it's so much that the Intrigue's suspension is too stiff, but rather it doesn't absorb the road. When OLD said road feel is not sacrificed, they meant any of it.
Intrigue suspension is only effective when enough force is encountered. I know I shouldn't complain about the design because I bought it. But if I'm gonna vent on my Intrigue, this is the place.
I will close with the positives:
looks- excellent, inside and out.
leather- excellent.
seat comfort- excellent.
features- excellent.
stereo- Pioneer4100 is excellent with stock speakers and no amp.
climate control- excellent.
3.5- excellent.
Brakes- good.
Basically, all is good notwithstanding the optional John Deer suspension I unknowingly purchased.
I was actually thinking of going the other way, putting some nitrogen charged struts for a more "controlled" ride and some bigger sway bars from Addco or Helwig, or maybe the Chevy police version. But I've not purchased a Intrigue yet, so I'd have to live with it and make a judgement after some road time.
For those of you thinking the springs are too soft, a highly charged strut will add a little spring rate. My shadow actually raised up off the ground about nearly 3/4" after putting on KYB shocks/struts. I had to put some aftermarket variable rate rear springs in the car to level it out, it was sticking up a bit in the nose! THe rears were too soft anyway, so it worked.
Every GM car I've driven has understeered quite a bit from the factory, they do that for liability reasons. So, I think a bigger rear anti-sway bar would help nuetral the cornering out quite a bit. I put one on my shadow and pickup truck and it made a world of difference both times. It DOES link the back wheels to a greater extent, so individual bumps will be transmitted more to your behind, but it shoudln't do anything on bumps that hit both wheels. Everything's a trade off in suspension it seems.
Thanks for info on the wheelhousing sound deading. It must work well, as the 2001 was very quiet. Maybe you guys can retrofit something if you're so inclined. I have not one sound complaints after driving the GLS and other cars, if anything the GLS is the quietest, except under heavy foot, when the 3.5 makes some nice noises.
Slope
However, at issue is not the firm ride but rather the inability of my suspension to absorb the road irregularities and small bumps instead of transferring that energy throughout the cabin components (rattles/vibrations) and into the driver. It wouldn't be as much of an issue if the interior components were tight enough to handle it.
That's where Old dropped the ball on my Intrigue. If they're gonna build a car with a rough ride, (and label MSRP at $27k+), then they should design, build, and assemble the inside accordingly. Since there's no way to remedy the latter, my only choice is to remedy the former, i.., hopefully find a suspension that will cut down, if not, eliminate the harshness.
As I stated previously, my suspension (and maybe mine is a fluke) is effective when enough force (large bumps, etc.) is applied to it. But normal conditions (which is most of the time) is another matter.
slope dirk- I asked around a bit last year regarding after market suspension upgrades but it appeared the only upgrades offered result in a staffer ride. I don't think that would help my situation.
I asked my local dealer if Buick regal struts or any others would fit in my Intrigue. The service advisor said no. Maybe he didn't know what he was talking about, I don't know. Maybe I'm beating a dead horse here.
For instance the dodge intrepid has stiffer springs and softer valving the intrigue. The
intrepid corners flatter and has a smoother ride over small road irregularities, but transmits large bumps and dips into the car.
The intrigue has soft springs and stiff valving. Notice how when you floor it the front end rises up? That is because the soft springse are allowing the weight to transfer to the back. The intrigue appears to handle concrete expansion joints okay and is a joy on the highway. But hit a manhole or frost heave or asphalt patch and it is jarring. The intrigue does very well on big bumps due to its soft springs and the fact that larger suspension travel movements are bypassed by the stiff struts.
The suspension should be modified in my opinion.
But i still like the car and prefer it to a lot of the competition.
Have you tried Michelin Pilots? they might help.
Michelin Pilots are the best for a softer ride?
Perhaps the tires are overinflated?
I've been generally pleased with her (does anyone else get attached enough to their cars to name them?) The updated logo is great. I love seeing it on my steering wheel and floormats. I'd like to remove the "Oldsmobile" from the rear of my Intrigue and replacing it with the Olds logo instead. I'm wondering why Olds never switched the font they use to write "Oldsmobile" on their cars to the new and more appealing font they use for INTRIGUE/ALERO/AURORA and the new BRAVADA. Why in the world would they replace the automatic gas door with a manual one? I can't believe they did that.
I'm sure not optimistic about anything from Buick. I test drove the Regal before I bought my Intrigue. That interior was so outdated, I felt like it belonged in the 70s. And the exterior isn't that much better. It looks like a slow car to me, even if it isn't. My Intrigue looks zippy. (And it is). Has anyone seen the new Rendezvous? I'm not that impressed with it either. I can hardly think that Buick will come up with something like the Intrigue.
Has Olds addressed the noise problem with the 2001 Intrigue? My car has lots of road and wind noise. I have a gift certificate/test drive offer and I was wondering if I should bother trying out the 2001 Intrigue (I'd like to see what the 3.5 Aurora is like). I'm sure it's way outta my price range but that Aurora interior is just so sumptuous looking.