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The Olds demise will bring a flood of lemon suits and arbitration cases. I can see a window opening and might restart my file. The last time I checked; my file had been sent to the GM legal dept.. I don't think one can lose too much more and GM is looking for retention of customer base.
I also suspect GM wants the single brand Olds dealer gone, and this could be a ploy to hasten the purge. The multi-brand GM dealers will win and I can see the larger guys growing with the small potatoe mashed..
I was joking about the collector item role for the only place these cars will collect at is the "junkyard". This may be a diversion to avoid lawsuits on steering, brake, and suspension faults. This magnasteer concept has cost them a bundle of money to cover the warranty claims and the intermediate shaft is still a grey area as is the rack gear itself. The brakes, in spite of what some say are pure junk....
To you Asian car owners--please do not share your pity or your glee with me for I can handle this situation...I have somewhat enjoyed the 99 3.5 for it has seen alot of fast interstate travel and really shined through it all. The 98 was not the smooth performer; but in its final days it was a debugged car that took 23k+miles to get everything straightened out. Was a funny experience..
The Intrigue replaced the older W-Body car, the Cutlass Supreme (I don't know if you are referring to this model). I liked the Cutlass Supreme as it was offered in Coupe and Cabriolet variants only. The Intrigue was supposed to "breakaway" from the typical first generation W-Body car image. The Eighty Eight and the LSS sedans were the big brothers of the Cutlass Supreme and were derived from the H-Body full size sedan FWD family.
The Malibu clone, the short lived Cutlass (97-99) replaced the aging early 1980's Cutlass Ciera sedan.
By the way, do you have any information on the new Pontiac/Toyota Hybrid entry level wagon to be sold on 2003 and meant to replace the lackluster Sunfire models?
Particularly, concerning the Old Cutlass / Chevy Malibu. You wrote:
Why did the Cutlass disappear two years ago? That was Oldsmobile's bread and butter for years. That was a mistake.
...
most Chevys are ugly and they're junk. Read the ... Malibu posts sometime. Chevys are horror shows.
But the 97-98 Cutlass and Malibu is the same car. Not a second cousin, but a twin. The only difference is bit different trim and another badge.
I have a 98 Malibu, and my friend have a Cutlass. We do not consider the car a horror story. Do not plan to drop them, even while we can afford this now. The car had only one serious problem: the front brake rotors were prone to warping, before GM redesigned them. The same problem as with early Intrigue.
I appreciate any headups on this new model.
* Reliability
* Heavy discounts and incentives on new models
Last time I checked, the Intrigue Commands the lowest resale value of all GM W-body cars. The W-body car that currently has the best resale value is the new Impala, followed by the Montecarlo, Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick Regal.
The Ford Taurus and Chrysler LHS sedans are also at the bottom of the barrel in terms of resale value. The Taurus feared a lower resale value than the Intrigue.
This is really an active board today---opportunity strikes again with the demise of Olds and GM wants to keep those 200,000+ customers from last year; so there will be perks.
On the brighter side this may be the best advertising campaign yet devised by GM-----people always look for bargains; so it may be perceived that the giveaways are about to happen..Good for traffic...
Chevy and Cadillac are also getting very exciting products in the next few years..sorry folks, they are not going anywhere! But Buick, in the other hand, should be very concerned about its future presence in the market.
As I said before, I don't see the Olds products making the move to other divisions. That only creates more product confusion while GM's Proctor & Gamble management tries to push "brand management" marketing. Perhaps Saturn will get some of the Olds concept cars down the road, assuming Saturn turns its own house in order. GM can't afford to confuse its attempt to establish new brand identities for Buick and Cadillac though by inserting re-badged Olds products in their line ups.
I am beginning to wonder, however, whether I can avoid the depreciation problem with my Intrigue by holding out 6-8 mos. for the inevitable subvented lease savings on an Aurora. I could live with a relatively cheap Aurora 4.0 for 3 years.
Anybody think Buick is now on a short leash?
dwg
hey Mr. Richard Wagoneer and Mr. Ron Zarella...don't you think it is time to pass on the pink slip to these clueless brand managers????
1. Trucks, trucks and more trucks (including hybrids) -- Chevy and GMC are more than safe. They ARE GM.
2. Pontiac -- performance with a greater emphasis on competing with the imports.
3. Saturn -- expanded to include larger car and near luxury offerings.
4. Cadillac -- Could be turning the corner. The DeVille is selling well and the new Escalade is getting rave reviews. If the new CTS and STS don't make it big, however, watch for GM to make a play for BMW. The Quandt family will want to sell out sooner or later, and its either going to VW or GM.
dwg
P.S. Take that for what it's worth. I also thought there was no way Hillary! could win a Senate seat.
Can you say “Fire Sale”, I feel for you guys. Face-it Olds had their chance to get it right with the intro of the Intrigue, and they simply blew-it.
Old’s Intrigue was a “Good IDEA, just poorly executed”.
The KC metro-plex area has a lot of car production problems ie. Intrigue, the Ford Escape // Mazda Tribute also in the KC area has had 5 recalls to-date.
Seems to me, the writing was on the wall, you just had to look for the clues.
Problems with Oldsmobile:
1. GM had no idea where they wanted Olds to go. Bench seats in the 88 or buckets in the LSS? Whitewalls on the 88 or aluminum wheels on the LSS, etc.
2. Advertising was bad or non-existent.
3. Had cars for too long with wire rims and whitewalls.
4. The Achieva--no Oldsmobiles in the last 8 years should have shipped with 4 bangers or solid rear axles.
5. Quality lapses.
6. Duh, let's see, Olds cut out the 98, the 88, the Cutlass, and sales dropped. Can't understand that. Can you?
Bryan
I disagree that Intrigue reliability was a problem. The car has always had average reliability. Perhaps it should have had better though.
After a day of reflection, I feel a bit dismayed at what GM did to Oldsmobile, the best division. It was finally a division a young person like me could find a really good car. Mr. Wagnor is killing something just when it was getting good, much like the men he replaced did with cars like the Fiero. SAD!
GM bought my 98 Intrigue after 26k miles; and I turned around and bought a 99 3.5 which is now entering the end of warranty.
Its a little late to dump these cars until some of the smoke settles; besides I believe there will be some better deals come along.
They still haven't figured out why my Intrigue's headlights flicker. Has anyone had this fixed yet?
Position Saturn/Saab as complementary brands that appeal to those who would now seek imports. Emphasis on sedans, wagons and crossover SUVs. Exactly the direction both are heading now anyway.
Shift Chevy more "mainstream". That means less traditional "American" car and more Honda/Toyota. Has anyone noticed that these two sell more Accords/Camrys than GM could hope to sell Malibus or Impalas
Pontiac - A step up from Chevrolet. Tone down the body cladding and "batmobile" styling, while still emphasizing performance. A new home for the 3.5l in the new Super-Epsilon (which, BTW Teo, is a front driver).
Buick? Who know or cares since most of their patrons will die off in 10-15 years. Stay the course for now since its the most clearly focused division.
Cadillac - Design products that take on MB/BMW/Audi/Lexus and forget your current base (see Buick for reasons). The 3.5l is reportedly to find a home in the new rearwheel drive, Sigma based CTS (Popular Mechanics).
We'll miss Olds, but in the long run, the decision ultimately makes sense.
I need to cheer up or something....maybe start drinking.
I have a 99 Intrigue GL and love the car. I want to buy another Intrigue (despite today’s unfortunate announcement) - an ’01 or ’02 this time. Regarding the '02 Intrigue, on June 26th you wrote, “For 2002 I have to keep quiet for now. Sorry to tease you, but it would ruin the surprise for everyone else.” Can you pull the veil off the ‘02’s now? Can you confirm that there will even be a production run for the ’02 Intrigue? If so, is there some big news for what may be available under the hood? Perhaps a supercharger-inspired 3.5 or even a Northstar V-8?
Any insight you could provide would be MOST appreciated.
Anyone else out there want to hear from Harlan, the Oldsmobile Intrigue Product Manager?
?
The last thing harlanc wants to do is come on this forum. They obviously didn't listen to us for the last four model years why would they take our suggestions now.
Oldsmobile failed because of mis management by a company that feels that marketing is more important than product. And if the product doesn't sell, stop advertising it and don't try to improve it.
He's probably not having too good a day.
"Olds is suffering from badly executed advertising and an unclear marketing message,"
said Jim Hall, an analyst at AutoPacific Group
Inc., an industry research group in Southfield,
Michigan, last week. "Oldsmobile is the ultimate
anomaly in that they've got some of the best
products at GM and they don't sell."
Sure did and now medioracy prevails some more at GM as they loose thier best offerrings. While I am very displeased to own an "orphan", I am still extremely happy with the car. Here's hoping I still can get parts 9 years hence(!)(esp for the 3.5, but should caddy use it in the CTS due next year, we're ok).
Will people actually continue to buy these car?
Will the people who are building them care?
The United States Supreme Court has ruled, and in a 5 to 4 vote, has given....
Oldsmobile a repreive, ...ok not really, but I can dream can't I.
As some uplifting note, had my 2000 GL in a foot of snow here near Chicago yesterday, and it was flawless, esp. the traction control and abs. Wife had to work last eve, and drove home in a blizzard (temp in single digits, high winds and low visibility with lots of blowing snow), and she arrived home to say although the roads were real bad, that the car made it easy. I plan to keep my car for 7-9 more years as I drive about 9k a year, and am glad to hear Olds will be around for some time at least.
Other than thier beloved LeSabre, Buick had nothing, so why not kill them off instead? As for the Intrigue sales not matching Impala or the GP, as someone pointed out here: That should be expected for a high line midsize and non-mainstream car, that competes with only higher end Camry/Accord V6's (which are smaller in numbers than thier 4cyl. brethen) and the VW Passat. Seen from that light, the car was selling ok. Alas, GM looks for the quick fix. I for one see this as a bad move in the end, not because i have an Intrigue, but becuase, for the same reason I bought it, that this was GM's bright spot.
My figures were wrong for the grand prix and impala. First 10 months of the year the grand prix has sold 133,000 and the impala 159,000!!
said was) at the the import midsize premium market, and that as such the sales are not awful at all. In fact as compared to the Passat, the Intrigue does well. Referring to the old Olds and models has no basis as to the current Olds market segment. Perhaps though, they should have stayed as "our father's oldsmobile" in hindsite, but thats Buick these days, and we do not need more of that.
From this day forward what will GM spend for Engineering changes to correct problems with the Intrigue, Alero, and the Aurora+the new Bravada+ the van?? GM is on a slippery slope; the lawsuits are going to roll. If you as an employee is facing a layoff, termination, or transfer; are you going to worry about trying to pump life into a dead horse??? If you as a supplier are stuck with supplying parts until the end--do you keep your tooling up to tip-top or do you let it go down the tube..
Either GM gets off their dead [non-permissible content removed] and makes some commitments to improve their reasoning or they may just start sucking fumes.. This outfit is not being run by dedicated knowledgable car folks. This announcement today was to stimulate the stock price and give reasoning for a bad quarter; but show that they are ahead of the problem and planning for the future by taking these steps to stop the bleeding.
The people making today's news will be nicely paid whether it works or not; but it keeps the wolves away from the door for 18 months until they can come up with phase II of the [non-permissible content removed]..
One of the big problems is to find someone within the halls of GM who really cares and understands what is needed. Most often things go on so long without correction that only seemingly drastic measures are offered.
It hard to grasp that these TURKEYS can kill one car line and explain it away as we have spent 2 billion and it didn't work; so what are we supposed to do??
lesabre 127,000
intrepid 122,000
maxima 113,000
alero 109,000
bonneville 59,000
regal 58,000
intrigue 56,000
First 10 months sales figures
Hey should we make a group buy on some windshield banner stickers in Oldsmobile font that say "Orphanmobile"????
Stick around folks - this is just Act I in a long-running play titled "The GM Implosion." The only really hot products GM has right now are the Corvette and the full-size SUVs. The Saturn L series is such a flop that GM should have named its trim levels Ranger, Pacer, Corsair and Citation. Chevrolet is being whipped by Ford. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Toyota outsells Chevrolet in passenger cars (but not trucks). What a comedown for the marque that was USA-1 throughout my childhood.
Several posters blame the brand management types brought in with GM chairman John Smale. In reality, the problems that killed Olds began long before their tenure. Their ineptitude was merely the final nail in Olds' coffin.
One news story said that almost one half of all new Oldsmobiles were sold to fleets or to people buying them with employee discounts. I have a feeling that the record isn't much better with the other GM divisions.
Buick is probably next. BMW, Mercedes and Volvo, are offering cheaper models to expand their customer base. There is even a less expensive Jaguar scheduled for release, based on the new Ford Mondeo platform (which had been sold here as the Ford Contour/Mercury Mystique). Let's face it, Buick can't compete with those marques for prestige, which is so important in that market. Heck, Cadillac can barely compete with those marques!
I'd be surprised if it takes five years to phase out Olds. As word gets around, sales will drop like a stone, just as they did with Plymouth. What a sad end for America's oldest nameplate. Farewell Oldsmobile...it has been a great century.
Also, some younger buyers thought that Oldsmobile already died. "I didn't know they still make them." Sales declined long before the antique 88 and 98 were dumped.
At this point, Olds is just a "marketing arm" of GM, not a subsidiary. There are no more "Olds" engines. Almost all the mechanical parts are shared with other brands, so they won't be a true "orphan car" like Opels or Merkurs. A suppiler has no idea if a said part will go in an Olds or a Chevy, so quality should stay the same.
Also, the 3.5 V6 engine is supposed to be used thoughout the rest of GM, so it's going nowhere.
I bet the Bravada will go to Caddy and the Aurora to Saturn. The Intrigue's parts will go into the newer Regals, Grand Prixs, and Impalas. Same with the Alero, being replaced by a newer Malibu, Grand Am, and Saturn LS.
Looks like we will do over 100 posts today. Its a small consolation on an otherwise horrible day for olds lovers.
I believe that this decision to kill Olds could be reversed if sales of the Bravada (which is indeed still a GO) take off. If anyone knows of a "save Oldsmobile" group, please let me know. I will help out.
In the end GM better not just kill this division and end things there. If they want an import fighting division, they better fix Saturn in a BIG way. The only Saturn I would probably consider is the upcoming SUV. A strong import fighting sedan like Intrigue is needed or my next car will be a Maxima or a Milllina.
That was hard to say. At any rate, I don't know where GM goes from here but the quote from the auto analyst (posted somewhere above) says it all. Olds probably is GM's most promising division (outside of Chevy trucks and GMC), but the failure to put the product in the market and "sell" it -- not just offer financing incentives and rebates -- has finally done it in.
dwg
I still think things can be reversed and the Olds name can live. The will of many people can not be ignored. Will those people come, I don't know. Killing such a big part of history makes me sad. Oldsmobile is the second oldest automobile mark in the world and should live even if it's attached only to the Aurora (for example).
Sad, I nver thought of Olds as an "old fogey" car. Of course, I started driving them in high school. While there were all kinds of 80's Cutlass', Regals, Monte Carlos, and Thunderbirds, everyone envied the Cutlass styling and sweet the 307 V8 (especially in the 442 H.O.). Of course, I am biased
As far as the $1500 or $1000 certificate goes, I pray to god the as a used buyer I can get it (yeah right) Congrats to all you new buyers, at least it softens that initial depreciation a little!
I hope the Intrigue is continued under some other brand, but I guess you can only have so many of the same class cars in one company.
With a tear in my eye, I sign off...
I wish this decision could be reversed, but it can't. Nor will the 2002 Bravada change things. That vehicle is basically dead in the water. When people fork over $30,000+ for a vehicle, be it a car or an SUV, image becomes very important. As of 11 o'clock this morning, the image of Olds is "loser" and "orphan." Even the fiftysomething woman who manages our office noticed that GM is discontinuing Olds. And she doesn't follow the auto industry.
I'd be surprised if it takes five years to phase out Olds. Sales of all models are going to drop like a rock over the next few months. Around Harrisburg, every Olds dealer is paired with other GM makes. They'll just clear out their current stock of Aleros, Intrigues, Auroras, Silhouettes and Bravadas and then concentrate on their other lines.
Oh, and dindak, please don't be so quick to bury Park Avenue owners. My parents have one, and I certainly hope they are around for longer than another 10 years!