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The sound of that straight six 4200 vortec motor is unfreakin believbable. It has got it all over the ford. Lets hope the bravada turns out to be a great last olds.
By the way the vortec 4200 turned the fastest time up the mountain.
I agree that the old format was more user-friendly but Olds and Edmunds seem to like change for changes sake these days.
What was most horrifying is that the agency that Olds was using had benn in place sine the 1930's!!!!!! They NEVER got a new agency. And when the agency did come up for review, GM kept them.
It's pretty clear that marketing, not the product, is responsible for Olds' demise. How long have we been saying that here even before this announcement? I suppose hind sight is always 20/20.
Too bad the clock can't be turned back.
Edmunds: For the record, this is THE THIRD TIME I have tried to post the sentence above. This is ridiculous. Having a pretty site that is completely unfunctional is a waste of server space.
Get it right, guys. Go back to the old posting system because it worked and we could talk to one another without copying one message 2 or 3 times.
I am sending a copy to my local Olds dealer because this article hits the nail on the head. One of the best lines is:
"... Oldsmobile possess real stars within what is generally a drab lineup of passenger cars in the GM stable. Its Alero, Intrigue and Aurora sedans are excellent products that, perhaps if labeled with BMW's blue and white rounded or the Mercedes-Benz star, might be celebrated as market leaders. Therefore it can be speculated that the collapse of Oldsmobile is MORE A FAILURE OF MARKETING AND SALES STRATEGIES THAN IT IS OF THE AUTOMOBILES THEMSELVES".
My caps on the last line, but you get the idea. The General is nothing but a 2nd Lieutenant that has no idea about which way to go.
Does anyone know how to find your placemarks?
They should've relaunch the brand under Aurora when they had the chance. In part, the brand problems were caused by selling cars with different images beside one another. For intance, why sell the 98 along side the Aurora and the 88 along side the Intrigue. They also had too many stop gap measures such as the 3.8l in the Intrigue and selling that Malibu knock off Cutlass. If they were going to be successful, they needed to make a clean break and get it right from the start.
Make fun of JRIFF all you want, but at least Honda and Toyota understand their customers and deliver the desired product. More importantly, these two companies deliver prodcut that returns a profit for shareholders. Toyota doesn't dump nearly as many fleet Camrys to maintain that top sales spot as Ford did with Taurus. GM may sell more mid-size cars than Toyota and Honda combined, but I bet GM's profit margins are smaller because of the cost in manufacturing so many different models.
If GM has hope, it will need to not only successfully plant Saturn as a true import alternative, but revitalize its core Chevy brand. IMO, Pontiac and Buick could be dumped too if Chevys had the broad appeal of a Honda or Toyota. I think Saab should be the true replacement for Olds in the brand hierarchy. Remember, Olds was supposed to have been a move-up brand. Using the Honda-Acura model, I think it would be wise to position Saturn-Saab together. These two divisions could then be bookened by Chevrolet and Cadillac (again dumping Pontiac and Buick down the road).
I took my spouse's car for an oil change at the local Olds dealer, which is apparently one of the five biggest nation wide. Before going over to Lupient Olds, I drove around to warm up the car (cold Minnesota day, ya'know) and passed through Pontiac and Saturn dealers to glance at GPs and LSs. Later I compared these two other vehicles with an an Intrigue in the showroom. The Intrigue is really exceptionally designed and equipted when compared with the other two cars. As such, I am left truly depressed over my remaining choices with the GM family. Regals, btw are a no-option after reading that they are giving $500 rebates to AARP members. Like I said, if they dump remaining stock to the employees through GMS/GMO, I'll be all over that Intrigue. Otherwise, I may have to look elsewhere at a Max, Passat or (gasp!)Accord...
My email from Oldsmobile came back with the standard fare that everyone else got.
After some thought this weekend, I will likely use my $1500 credit if I can, on a new Oldsmobile. Combined with my GM points, I can't go wrong I guess. As mad as I am at GM for ruining Oldsmobile, the engineers at GM did an amazing job with these cars and I can't pass up a good deal.
I'm very sad to see Olds go. A comment on the oft-repeated litany that no one would buy a car that started witht he word "Old". For 87 years, upwards of a million people a year did just that. I can guarantee that many of them were far from old. It wasn't the name that was the problem despite what people say. It was product failures that tainted the name, for sure, but Buick had those same products and same failures in the mid-late 80s and somehow recovered. The real problem was boneheaded marketing and product positioning along with totally inept advertising.
One last comment on the 88s and 98s impacting on the new image of Olds... I never saw that as a problem. The last-gen 98 was a very good car, and the last-gen 88 was my favorite Olds from that time, at least in the LSS guise. I don't think the 88 should ever have been cancelled. An update of the styling, with the addition of the 3.5 engine, and it could have been a contender in the slot between the Intrigue and Aurora.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
As for GMC, pair it up either with Saturn-Saab or Caddilac such that the auto divisions don't have to sell real "trucks", i.e., the Escalade should not exist, but there should be a crossover SUV within Cadillac.
First we were introduced to the Evoq, then the Imaj and now the Vizon. It would appear that GM is even preparing the public to pronounce the eccentric names they want to use BEFORE bringing them to showrooms. (Personally, I think they need to stay away from names that people can't pronounce on first sight.)
Perhaps the mistakes GM made with Olds will not be in vain. If Cadillac MARKETS the new, strange shapes BEFORE they hit showrooms and CONTINUE advertising after they are released, Caddy might be able to pull it off.
In any case, it appears that Cadillac might introduce an entirely new lineup at once instead of attempting to sell the newly designed models with outgoing ones.
What's really troubling is the article's discussion of the 3.5l. Apparently, it is too expensive for the other divisions to consider it. It is rumored to be showing up in the Catera/CTS next year (which would make sense as it is derived from the Northstar v8). Beyond that, I'm not sure it will make it into the Mid-Lux platform cars in 2-3 years. Losing Olds is bad enough, but that would really hurt.
I know I am p*ssing into the wind here but I hope that someone at GM is thinking about how to market cars to an import oriented audience. Okay, it didn't work with Olds (whether due to market conditions or poor execution) but there is a market out here for under $30k sports sedans (see, e.g., Accord, Camry, Maxima, Passat) and it would be really nice if GM entered that competition. Again, with all due respect to the Impala, Regal and Grand Prix fans out there, those cars do not compete with the best the imports have to offer.
I don't have any problem with GM's focus on trucks and SUVs (especially the new SUVs coming into the market place now). I tend to be a little conservative about my auto purchases, however. I just can't see myself shelling out $35k for a CTS (assuming it actually will compete with the entry level luxury sports sedans from BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc.). GM has got to provide a competitive alternative to the imports in the $25-30k class for me to come back.
Enough venting for one night. I have to get up and run the snow blower again tomorrow morning.
dwg
runs off to flush $2 billiion in a market that doesn't exist. Who's in
charge over there?
This is what GM is facing in China...
http://www.chinatimes.com.tw//english/ebusines/89121708.htm
96G: Alero and Grand Am both now offer Getrag 5-speeds on their 4-cyl models. Cavalier and Sunfire (while not the best cars in the world), both offer the same.
dwg: I agree with you, the demise of the 3.5L would be a disaster. I don't honestly thing they will do it, but the way things have gone this month who knows. I think it will more likely become an option on next generation Regal and Grand Prix models.
Anybody who buys a saab buys it because they are looking for something different. There are dozens of models out there that are better quality and greater resale for less money. Just my opinion.
option when i bought mine. It would make one hell of a police motor, especially for the highway patrol.
But the way folks are thinking in Detroit these days, they'll probably can the 3.5 because, according to dwg, it's too expensive for other divisions. At some point one has to bite the bullet. It may be too expensive now but how much more is it going to cost in the near future when they get no new customers because of using antiquated hardware?
********
For the record, it DIDN'T TAKE THE FIRST TIME!!! Sent me back to the login screen. I suppose I have to log out and back in every time I want to post. You bad mouth the Intrigue in your reviews; maybe we should do the same about TownHall to site that review other web sites.
I like my friend's Saab that she is trading in on the CL-S. It is not as quiet as could be with the big rear hatch but it rides and drives sporty with the stick, turbo, and relatively light weight.
96gs,
I posted the almost identical message in response to one2one, but it got lost in space somehow. Ditto on what you said, and i also wanted to add that the 3.4L is a 60 degree engine, which is why it is used in the minivans. I am not sure the 90 degree 3800 would fit in the minivans.
As far as posting is concerned, so far I haven't had any problems. I guess I just may be lucky. I probably spoke too soon.
BTW.. the old 3.4L twin cam did indeed have many problems, but it was a pretty neat design. 3.5L is King though!
Plus, having just purchased an 2000 Intrigue GLS in September, I will be in possession of the $1000-1500 Oldsmobile orphan rebate.
Mr.blinky, i understand that 3.5L will make 225 horsepower in the cadillac.
The 3.5L on the other hand is a gem and is very reliable. The Cadillac version will indeed produce 225HP. I guess that means the Intrigue version will never get a boost in HP.
DETROIT -- General Motors Corp. intends to eliminate 16 of its 80 vehicle models by 2004, a cost-cutting move that industry analysts say could set the stage for the closing of a handful of assembly plants in the United States and Canada.
Industry analysts said vehicles such as the Sunfire, Pontiac's version of the compact Chevrolet Cavalier, could be eliminated. Other models that might go: the Buick Century or Regal and Park Avenue, Cadillac Eldorado, Chevrolet Camaro and Prizm, GMC Sonoma and Pontiac Firebird and Bonneville.
dave