As i am typing this i am watching the Pike's Peak race on ESPN 2. They are cutting between an Explorer 2wd and the 2002 GMC envoy 4wd. The sound of that straight six 4200 vortec motor is unfreakin believbable. It has got it all over the ford. Lets hope the bravada turns out to be a great last olds. By the way the vortec 4200 turned the fastest time up the mountain.
This new format sucks!!! I just lost a post in the Buick Regal forum. L8 Apex, I know your reading my posts so I hope you get this one. I've had it happen in this thread twice and now it happened in the Regal thread. I'll type a message and when I click "post my message" it takes me back to the main screen where you choose the forum you want(sedans, coupes, SUVs, Wagon, etc) and then my message is lost. It's a pain in the a** to have to retype a post once or even twice to finally get it to show up.
Are you serious about the 5 year 60,000 mile warranty? Is this an extension of the GM bumper to bumper and when is it going to take effect? If this is true, I will almost certainly do another Olds(probably an Intrigue) when the lease on my 98 is up this summer. Also, when does Olds plan to start notifying current customers about their $1500 voucher and customer care hotline? I figure there will be pretty good discounts on the Intrigue and probably all Olds models except the 2002 Bravada near the end of the model year and if Olds offers the 0.9% finance rate for 60 months along with the longer warranty, it's almost a sure bet I'll buy one last Oldsmobile. I'm thinking Midnight Blue with neutral leather interior, sunroof, and the Bose audio system.
When Edmunds bumps me back to the main screen - %50 of the time now after a post - i simply back arrow to the screen I posted on. Copy it and start again from the main screen. The second time always works.
I agree that the old format was more user-friendly but Olds and Edmunds seem to like change for changes sake these days.
Saw on bloomberg tv that GM is cutting its number of models by 20% percent. We know about Olds and we know about camaro/firebird. I wonder who is next?
There are some interesting articles about why Olds faild on www.auto.com. On is an article from an interview with John Rock under the heading: "Rock: I should have fired the advertising agency in 1993"
What was most horrifying is that the agency that Olds was using had benn in place sine the 1930's!!!!!! They NEVER got a new agency. And when the agency did come up for review, GM kept them.
It's pretty clear that marketing, not the product, is responsible for Olds' demise. How long have we been saying that here even before this announcement? I suppose hind sight is always 20/20.
Edmunds: For the record, this is THE THIRD TIME I have tried to post the sentence above. This is ridiculous. Having a pretty site that is completely unfunctional is a waste of server space.
The Wall Street Journal Interactive edition has a great article by Brock Yates titled, "How GM Wrecked Oldsmobile".
I am sending a copy to my local Olds dealer because this article hits the nail on the head. One of the best lines is:
"... Oldsmobile possess real stars within what is generally a drab lineup of passenger cars in the GM stable. Its Alero, Intrigue and Aurora sedans are excellent products that, perhaps if labeled with BMW's blue and white rounded or the Mercedes-Benz star, might be celebrated as market leaders. Therefore it can be speculated that the collapse of Oldsmobile is MORE A FAILURE OF MARKETING AND SALES STRATEGIES THAN IT IS OF THE AUTOMOBILES THEMSELVES".
My caps on the last line, but you get the idea. The General is nothing but a 2nd Lieutenant that has no idea about which way to go.
I hear that the vouchers are going out in January, but you can get the rebate sooner. I'm getting $1,000 off the lease of a Grand Prix. If I was getting another Olds, then the rebate would be $1,500.
Olds failed when you read all of the news stories about the brand's demise. They all include quotes from some old geezer or even a dealer that is upset that GM killed off thier beloved 98. Yet, they could just as easily go over to their local Buick dealer and buy the same product in a Park Ave.
They should've relaunch the brand under Aurora when they had the chance. In part, the brand problems were caused by selling cars with different images beside one another. For intance, why sell the 98 along side the Aurora and the 88 along side the Intrigue. They also had too many stop gap measures such as the 3.8l in the Intrigue and selling that Malibu knock off Cutlass. If they were going to be successful, they needed to make a clean break and get it right from the start.
Make fun of JRIFF all you want, but at least Honda and Toyota understand their customers and deliver the desired product. More importantly, these two companies deliver prodcut that returns a profit for shareholders. Toyota doesn't dump nearly as many fleet Camrys to maintain that top sales spot as Ford did with Taurus. GM may sell more mid-size cars than Toyota and Honda combined, but I bet GM's profit margins are smaller because of the cost in manufacturing so many different models.
If GM has hope, it will need to not only successfully plant Saturn as a true import alternative, but revitalize its core Chevy brand. IMO, Pontiac and Buick could be dumped too if Chevys had the broad appeal of a Honda or Toyota. I think Saab should be the true replacement for Olds in the brand hierarchy. Remember, Olds was supposed to have been a move-up brand. Using the Honda-Acura model, I think it would be wise to position Saturn-Saab together. These two divisions could then be bookened by Chevrolet and Cadillac (again dumping Pontiac and Buick down the road).
I took my spouse's car for an oil change at the local Olds dealer, which is apparently one of the five biggest nation wide. Before going over to Lupient Olds, I drove around to warm up the car (cold Minnesota day, ya'know) and passed through Pontiac and Saturn dealers to glance at GPs and LSs. Later I compared these two other vehicles with an an Intrigue in the showroom. The Intrigue is really exceptionally designed and equipted when compared with the other two cars. As such, I am left truly depressed over my remaining choices with the GM family. Regals, btw are a no-option after reading that they are giving $500 rebates to AARP members. Like I said, if they dump remaining stock to the employees through GMS/GMO, I'll be all over that Intrigue. Otherwise, I may have to look elsewhere at a Max, Passat or (gasp!)Accord...
That paragraph says it all, though I think the products would more likely have sold much better if they had HONDA written on them. Of course nobody knows my Intrigue is made by Oldsmobile either.
My email from Oldsmobile came back with the standard fare that everyone else got.
After some thought this weekend, I will likely use my $1500 credit if I can, on a new Oldsmobile. Combined with my GM points, I can't go wrong I guess. As mad as I am at GM for ruining Oldsmobile, the engineers at GM did an amazing job with these cars and I can't pass up a good deal.
Apparently Mercury may be the next U.S. nameplate to disappear. It ended it's life in Canada last year and word out of Detriot is it's days are numbered. Another sad piece of news!
I suspect that in, say, a decade, GM may well consist of only Chevy, Caddy, and Saturn (since they steadfastly refuse to admit it is a failure), which could be a mishmash of product that doesn't fit into the other 2 divisions. I don't like Buick's chances at all, nor GMC's, and Pontiac doesn't seem different enough from Chevy to make a difference when the chips are down. And even with all that, I still dunno if it will be enough to save GM if they don't get their act together on both the product and marketing sides. The only division that really got their product into good shape was Olds and look what happened there, because of absolutely horrible marketing.
I'm very sad to see Olds go. A comment on the oft-repeated litany that no one would buy a car that started witht he word "Old". For 87 years, upwards of a million people a year did just that. I can guarantee that many of them were far from old. It wasn't the name that was the problem despite what people say. It was product failures that tainted the name, for sure, but Buick had those same products and same failures in the mid-late 80s and somehow recovered. The real problem was boneheaded marketing and product positioning along with totally inept advertising.
One last comment on the 88s and 98s impacting on the new image of Olds... I never saw that as a problem. The last-gen 98 was a very good car, and the last-gen 88 was my favorite Olds from that time, at least in the LSS guise. I don't think the 88 should ever have been cancelled. An update of the styling, with the addition of the 3.5 engine, and it could have been a contender in the slot between the Intrigue and Aurora.
a car slotted between the Aurora and Intrigue. I think that is half of GMs problem for its other brands is that they cram too many cars into such a narrow spectrum within the market. Please explain the big difference between the Grand Am/Grand Prix/Bonneville or Century-Regal/LeSabre/Park Ave. There is just too much overlap for anyone of them to be a big success.
As for GMC, pair it up either with Saturn-Saab or Caddilac such that the auto divisions don't have to sell real "trucks", i.e., the Escalade should not exist, but there should be a crossover SUV within Cadillac.
According to all the dealers and older customers that i talked to olds wouldn't have failed if they had just offered bench seats in all their models............the preceding was a fasicious statement.
After the thousands of posts about how bad the brakes are on the autobahn equipped intrigues, guess what is the hot ticket with the grand prix owners? You guessed it, they are retrofitting the 11.9" rotors onto their grand prix's. You gotta love it!!!
I was just reviewing the schedule for the Detroit Auto Show. After viewing the latest concept car from Cadillac a thought popped up. "Is Cadillac going to introduce ALL the cars they plan to replace to improve their image unlike Olds attempt to change their lineup?"
First we were introduced to the Evoq, then the Imaj and now the Vizon. It would appear that GM is even preparing the public to pronounce the eccentric names they want to use BEFORE bringing them to showrooms. (Personally, I think they need to stay away from names that people can't pronounce on first sight.)
Perhaps the mistakes GM made with Olds will not be in vain. If Cadillac MARKETS the new, strange shapes BEFORE they hit showrooms and CONTINUE advertising after they are released, Caddy might be able to pull it off.
In any case, it appears that Cadillac might introduce an entirely new lineup at once instead of attempting to sell the newly designed models with outgoing ones.
It will be interesting to see what happens when Oldsmobile is gone. Someone mentioned Saturn-Sabb dealers. Here in Canada, GM is much more structured than in the U.S. Perhaps that is why they still hold over 30% market share here. Saturn-Sabb-Isuzu dealers are standard across the country, offering import buyers a little of everything. I think GM (if they want to move people back from imports) should consolidate thier Import fighters accross the board to Saturn-Saab-Isuzu in the U.S. This won't be easy, but with Oldsmobile gone, a strong dealer network with solid choices that will bring back Honda and VW drivers is needed.
I still think dropping Olds was just plain wrong. I don't know what they were thinking up there at GM, but it sure wasn't about their customers. I particularly liked that article where John Rock mentioned he should have fired the ad agency, this is what I've been saying for some time. Hell, I never took any marketing classes and I don't have an MBA, just a lowly Political Science degree and I think I could market these cars better than Oldsmobile was.
Too bad none of them have anything going for them right now as far as their model lines go. Does anyone say "Man, I just have to have that Isuzu!" Atleast people who like picnics can go for Saturns and eccentric yuppies can drive stick shift Saabs.
I also saw the Brock Yates column on the editorial page today (always stop there first, don't you know), but the REAL story was the page 1 article about GM's global restructuring and the huge task ahead for the General. The story suggests that Olds was as good as dead this past summer if not earlier (when some of us were engaging in paranoid conspiracy theories as I recall).
What's really troubling is the article's discussion of the 3.5l. Apparently, it is too expensive for the other divisions to consider it. It is rumored to be showing up in the Catera/CTS next year (which would make sense as it is derived from the Northstar v8). Beyond that, I'm not sure it will make it into the Mid-Lux platform cars in 2-3 years. Losing Olds is bad enough, but that would really hurt.
I know I am p*ssing into the wind here but I hope that someone at GM is thinking about how to market cars to an import oriented audience. Okay, it didn't work with Olds (whether due to market conditions or poor execution) but there is a market out here for under $30k sports sedans (see, e.g., Accord, Camry, Maxima, Passat) and it would be really nice if GM entered that competition. Again, with all due respect to the Impala, Regal and Grand Prix fans out there, those cars do not compete with the best the imports have to offer.
I don't have any problem with GM's focus on trucks and SUVs (especially the new SUVs coming into the market place now). I tend to be a little conservative about my auto purchases, however. I just can't see myself shelling out $35k for a CTS (assuming it actually will compete with the entry level luxury sports sedans from BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc.). GM has got to provide a competitive alternative to the imports in the $25-30k class for me to come back.
Enough venting for one night. I have to get up and run the snow blower again tomorrow morning.
GM needs to grow some you know what and actually make a manual transmission and tight suspension available in a sports sedan under 30K. They make really good slush-boxes but that won't cut it for the true enthusiast. A manual, more aggressive rubber, tighter suspension, and more are needed to get true sport sedan enthusiasts to look GM's way. The current offerings are by no means bad, and they work great for the people who buy them. However, their is a market niche that GM is missing out on, big time. They are also missing out on the sport coupe market, big time. No manual and race ready goodies for the GA or Alero. The Cav and Fire are also a joke in that dept. I don't know what GM is waiting for....
So... GM drops Olds after a $3 billion investment in a rich market, then runs off to flush $2 billiion in a market that doesn't exist. Who's in charge over there?
bz4: I disagree. Saab has some pretty nice cars on the market right now. They aren't a class leader, but they have been improving and gaining market share.
96G: Alero and Grand Am both now offer Getrag 5-speeds on their 4-cyl models. Cavalier and Sunfire (while not the best cars in the world), both offer the same.
dwg: I agree with you, the demise of the 3.5L would be a disaster. I don't honestly thing they will do it, but the way things have gone this month who knows. I think it will more likely become an option on next generation Regal and Grand Prix models.
My sister had a saab and it was horrible!! I have never been in a car that was that expensive and had so much vibration. It was sorely lacking in NVH. The ride quality was bad and the engine screamed to maintain 70 mph. Parts were expensive and it needed them often. Anybody who buys a saab buys it because they are looking for something different. There are dozens of models out there that are better quality and greater resale for less money. Just my opinion.
The 3.5L will be going into the Cadillac CTS. Maybe GM should make the 3.5L optional in the regal, impala and grand prix. It was a $500 option when i bought mine. It would make one hell of a police motor, especially for the highway patrol.
What year was her Saab? A friend of a friend has a 2000 95, and she is very happy with it. I know they did have problems in the past, so if it's an older model I believe you totally.
I just read an article on Auto.com (got it right this time) and they referenced cutting models and engines. The only new engines that I can think of are the 3.4L, 3.8L, and 3.5L. I think it's a smart move to drop at least one of them. The 3.8 (while I love it in my Intrigue) seems like the best choice for retirement since the output of the 3.5 is very close and especially if GM wants to compete with the foreign market's twin cams. The 3.4 should probably be next. From what I've read, it isn't refined enough to compete. If I'm not mistaken, that's the engine Olds originally wanted to use in the Intrigue but canned it in favor of the 3.5 because the 3.4 was too loud. And it's not too hard to detune the 3.5 for use in the Century and yet still use it in the Regal. After all, the 3.8 in the Intrigue is detuned. Just look at the numbers on a non-supercharged Bonniville and compare.
But the way folks are thinking in Detroit these days, they'll probably can the 3.5 because, according to dwg, it's too expensive for other divisions. At some point one has to bite the bullet. It may be too expensive now but how much more is it going to cost in the near future when they get no new customers because of using antiquated hardware?
This site offically sucks. Royally. I wanted to post but it said I wasn't logged in. I attempt to log in and it says I already am logged in and allows me to post. But no, wait... after I "post my message" I'm taken back to the screen that tells me to login. At the bottom it says "if you *really* want to login, log out and back again". What is that supposed to mean. Either I'm logged in or I'm not. This happened 3 times (and this one probably won't take the first time either). I sent an email but got no response. Since I know you read this, I'm putting it here. Maybe if we all protest something will get done.
******** For the record, it DIDN'T TAKE THE FIRST TIME!!! Sent me back to the login screen. I suppose I have to log out and back in every time I want to post. You bad mouth the Intrigue in your reviews; maybe we should do the same about TownHall to site that review other web sites.
If they are close to having smaller variants of the 4.2L inline for the TrailBlazer etc that perform on par or better than the shortstar for similar or less cost, then I don't see the need to keep the 3.5L as it would just be overlap. If the next Catera isn't significantly lighter than the current version, the 3.5L may leave it lacking once again in performance against the competition.
I like my friend's Saab that she is trading in on the CL-S. It is not as quiet as could be with the big rear hatch but it rides and drives sporty with the stick, turbo, and relatively light weight.
The 3.4 you are referring to is the pushrod motor. The DOHC 3.4 was what was supposed to be used for the Intrigue. That was the high end motor used for the old Cutlas Supreme. Engineers thought that engine was too loud and unrefined for use in the Intrigue so they scraped it and used the quieter, more refined 3800II. The pushrod 3.4 (which is based off the 3.1 and ancient 2.8) is now used in the GA, Monte, Alero, etc.
It was older, it was an '87. My point is that someone who buys a saab is spending $38,000 for a four cylinder, albeit one that goes like hell, but it is still a four cylinder. 96gs, I posted the almost identical message in response to one2one, but it got lost in space somehow. Ditto on what you said, and i also wanted to add that the 3.4L is a 60 degree engine, which is why it is used in the minivans. I am not sure the 90 degree 3800 would fit in the minivans.
It was a cobbled-up mess; old x-car 2.8 v-6 with displacement bumped to 3.4 and OHC heads bolted on. Why is it that Toyota, Honda and Nissan can "afford" to install DOHC engines in their mid-size $20-$30,000 sedans, yet GM whines that the 3.5 is "too expensive?" Without the 3.5 engine option, we would not have purchased an Intrigue in the first place. Which, actually, I am beginning to wish I hadn't anyway. I picked up our 99 GL this morning after a third trip to fix the "flickering" headlight problem. Service advisor now tells me that the "re-designed" alternator will not be available for 45 to 60 days... but that the car is safe to drive. I asked him if I'm driving down a dark road the headlights fail completely, will he pay for my funeral? I think he got the message that this is a safety issue. You'd think after all of the Firestone/Explorer crap that the car companies would be a wee bit more considerate about potentially life-threatening defects. Guess not.
Yup, you guys are both right. I forgot to mention that the 3.4 is a 60 degree V6. I am just glad the old 24 valve 3.4 was put out of its misery. There were LOTS of problems with it and putting it in the Intrigue would have been very bad. GM actually made a good move there.
As far as posting is concerned, so far I haven't had any problems. I guess I just may be lucky. I probably spoke too soon.
Well, I didn't say Saabs were any deal. They are sweet these days (even with a 4 banger), and if they built an entry level Saab like BMW does, I might consider one.
BTW.. the old 3.4L twin cam did indeed have many problems, but it was a pretty neat design. 3.5L is King though!
Where is this information originating...? I will be in the market for a luxury sedan with sporty qualities (as opposed to a sport sedan with luxury qualities; subtle but distinct difference...) in 12 to 18 months, and the Caddy is on the list. Where has GM broken down the projected features and options for the 2002+ year models?
Plus, having just purchased an 2000 Intrigue GLS in September, I will be in possession of the $1000-1500 Oldsmobile orphan rebate.
One way GM could continue the 3.5 in a cheaper car line would be to make a 2 valve SOHC version. This would lower the cost of the engine greatly and provide additional low end torque. Mr.blinky, i understand that 3.5L will make 225 horsepower in the cadillac.
Ohhh an 87 Saab is a whole different beast. Saabs aren't cheap, but they have a lot of cool technology. I would definitely look at an entry level Saab if they had one.
The the 3.4L DOHC was a neat engine, but it had some problems.
The 3.5L on the other hand is a gem and is very reliable. The Cadillac version will indeed produce 225HP. I guess that means the Intrigue version will never get a boost in HP.
DETROIT -- General Motors Corp. intends to eliminate 16 of its 80 vehicle models by 2004, a cost-cutting move that industry analysts say could set the stage for the closing of a handful of assembly plants in the United States and Canada.
Industry analysts said vehicles such as the Sunfire, Pontiac's version of the compact Chevrolet Cavalier, could be eliminated. Other models that might go: the Buick Century or Regal and Park Avenue, Cadillac Eldorado, Chevrolet Camaro and Prizm, GMC Sonoma and Pontiac Firebird and Bonneville.
Oldsmobile will be giving salesman a $400 spiff for any new Oldsmobile they sell. I see this as a move to keep salesman at the dealership until they run out of product and an indicator the close out period will be much shorter time period than GM is saying. I would guess 1 year is the longest it will take to eliminate Oldsmobile. My stepfather is meeting with GM this week to learn what will become of his stand alone single point Olds store. I will keep you posted. p.s. If you want to get launched out of an Olds showroom try getting the $400 salesman spiff thrown in to your deal.
Lets hope there will be a 2002 intrigue. Harlanc said there will be some changes,hopefully the road noise will be reduced. That alone would sway me over to another intrigue. If i keep the car a long time then the resale issue becomes moot.
Comments
The sound of that straight six 4200 vortec motor is unfreakin believbable. It has got it all over the ford. Lets hope the bravada turns out to be a great last olds.
By the way the vortec 4200 turned the fastest time up the mountain.
I agree that the old format was more user-friendly but Olds and Edmunds seem to like change for changes sake these days.
What was most horrifying is that the agency that Olds was using had benn in place sine the 1930's!!!!!! They NEVER got a new agency. And when the agency did come up for review, GM kept them.
It's pretty clear that marketing, not the product, is responsible for Olds' demise. How long have we been saying that here even before this announcement? I suppose hind sight is always 20/20.
Too bad the clock can't be turned back.
Edmunds: For the record, this is THE THIRD TIME I have tried to post the sentence above. This is ridiculous. Having a pretty site that is completely unfunctional is a waste of server space.
Get it right, guys. Go back to the old posting system because it worked and we could talk to one another without copying one message 2 or 3 times.
I am sending a copy to my local Olds dealer because this article hits the nail on the head. One of the best lines is:
"... Oldsmobile possess real stars within what is generally a drab lineup of passenger cars in the GM stable. Its Alero, Intrigue and Aurora sedans are excellent products that, perhaps if labeled with BMW's blue and white rounded or the Mercedes-Benz star, might be celebrated as market leaders. Therefore it can be speculated that the collapse of Oldsmobile is MORE A FAILURE OF MARKETING AND SALES STRATEGIES THAN IT IS OF THE AUTOMOBILES THEMSELVES".
My caps on the last line, but you get the idea. The General is nothing but a 2nd Lieutenant that has no idea about which way to go.
Does anyone know how to find your placemarks?
They should've relaunch the brand under Aurora when they had the chance. In part, the brand problems were caused by selling cars with different images beside one another. For intance, why sell the 98 along side the Aurora and the 88 along side the Intrigue. They also had too many stop gap measures such as the 3.8l in the Intrigue and selling that Malibu knock off Cutlass. If they were going to be successful, they needed to make a clean break and get it right from the start.
Make fun of JRIFF all you want, but at least Honda and Toyota understand their customers and deliver the desired product. More importantly, these two companies deliver prodcut that returns a profit for shareholders. Toyota doesn't dump nearly as many fleet Camrys to maintain that top sales spot as Ford did with Taurus. GM may sell more mid-size cars than Toyota and Honda combined, but I bet GM's profit margins are smaller because of the cost in manufacturing so many different models.
If GM has hope, it will need to not only successfully plant Saturn as a true import alternative, but revitalize its core Chevy brand. IMO, Pontiac and Buick could be dumped too if Chevys had the broad appeal of a Honda or Toyota. I think Saab should be the true replacement for Olds in the brand hierarchy. Remember, Olds was supposed to have been a move-up brand. Using the Honda-Acura model, I think it would be wise to position Saturn-Saab together. These two divisions could then be bookened by Chevrolet and Cadillac (again dumping Pontiac and Buick down the road).
I took my spouse's car for an oil change at the local Olds dealer, which is apparently one of the five biggest nation wide. Before going over to Lupient Olds, I drove around to warm up the car (cold Minnesota day, ya'know) and passed through Pontiac and Saturn dealers to glance at GPs and LSs. Later I compared these two other vehicles with an an Intrigue in the showroom. The Intrigue is really exceptionally designed and equipted when compared with the other two cars. As such, I am left truly depressed over my remaining choices with the GM family. Regals, btw are a no-option after reading that they are giving $500 rebates to AARP members. Like I said, if they dump remaining stock to the employees through GMS/GMO, I'll be all over that Intrigue. Otherwise, I may have to look elsewhere at a Max, Passat or (gasp!)Accord...
My email from Oldsmobile came back with the standard fare that everyone else got.
After some thought this weekend, I will likely use my $1500 credit if I can, on a new Oldsmobile. Combined with my GM points, I can't go wrong I guess. As mad as I am at GM for ruining Oldsmobile, the engineers at GM did an amazing job with these cars and I can't pass up a good deal.
I'm very sad to see Olds go. A comment on the oft-repeated litany that no one would buy a car that started witht he word "Old". For 87 years, upwards of a million people a year did just that. I can guarantee that many of them were far from old. It wasn't the name that was the problem despite what people say. It was product failures that tainted the name, for sure, but Buick had those same products and same failures in the mid-late 80s and somehow recovered. The real problem was boneheaded marketing and product positioning along with totally inept advertising.
One last comment on the 88s and 98s impacting on the new image of Olds... I never saw that as a problem. The last-gen 98 was a very good car, and the last-gen 88 was my favorite Olds from that time, at least in the LSS guise. I don't think the 88 should ever have been cancelled. An update of the styling, with the addition of the 3.5 engine, and it could have been a contender in the slot between the Intrigue and Aurora.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
As for GMC, pair it up either with Saturn-Saab or Caddilac such that the auto divisions don't have to sell real "trucks", i.e., the Escalade should not exist, but there should be a crossover SUV within Cadillac.
First we were introduced to the Evoq, then the Imaj and now the Vizon. It would appear that GM is even preparing the public to pronounce the eccentric names they want to use BEFORE bringing them to showrooms. (Personally, I think they need to stay away from names that people can't pronounce on first sight.)
Perhaps the mistakes GM made with Olds will not be in vain. If Cadillac MARKETS the new, strange shapes BEFORE they hit showrooms and CONTINUE advertising after they are released, Caddy might be able to pull it off.
In any case, it appears that Cadillac might introduce an entirely new lineup at once instead of attempting to sell the newly designed models with outgoing ones.
What's really troubling is the article's discussion of the 3.5l. Apparently, it is too expensive for the other divisions to consider it. It is rumored to be showing up in the Catera/CTS next year (which would make sense as it is derived from the Northstar v8). Beyond that, I'm not sure it will make it into the Mid-Lux platform cars in 2-3 years. Losing Olds is bad enough, but that would really hurt.
I know I am p*ssing into the wind here but I hope that someone at GM is thinking about how to market cars to an import oriented audience. Okay, it didn't work with Olds (whether due to market conditions or poor execution) but there is a market out here for under $30k sports sedans (see, e.g., Accord, Camry, Maxima, Passat) and it would be really nice if GM entered that competition. Again, with all due respect to the Impala, Regal and Grand Prix fans out there, those cars do not compete with the best the imports have to offer.
I don't have any problem with GM's focus on trucks and SUVs (especially the new SUVs coming into the market place now). I tend to be a little conservative about my auto purchases, however. I just can't see myself shelling out $35k for a CTS (assuming it actually will compete with the entry level luxury sports sedans from BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc.). GM has got to provide a competitive alternative to the imports in the $25-30k class for me to come back.
Enough venting for one night. I have to get up and run the snow blower again tomorrow morning.
dwg
runs off to flush $2 billiion in a market that doesn't exist. Who's in
charge over there?
This is what GM is facing in China...
http://www.chinatimes.com.tw//english/ebusines/89121708.htm
96G: Alero and Grand Am both now offer Getrag 5-speeds on their 4-cyl models. Cavalier and Sunfire (while not the best cars in the world), both offer the same.
dwg: I agree with you, the demise of the 3.5L would be a disaster. I don't honestly thing they will do it, but the way things have gone this month who knows. I think it will more likely become an option on next generation Regal and Grand Prix models.
Anybody who buys a saab buys it because they are looking for something different. There are dozens of models out there that are better quality and greater resale for less money. Just my opinion.
option when i bought mine. It would make one hell of a police motor, especially for the highway patrol.
But the way folks are thinking in Detroit these days, they'll probably can the 3.5 because, according to dwg, it's too expensive for other divisions. At some point one has to bite the bullet. It may be too expensive now but how much more is it going to cost in the near future when they get no new customers because of using antiquated hardware?
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For the record, it DIDN'T TAKE THE FIRST TIME!!! Sent me back to the login screen. I suppose I have to log out and back in every time I want to post. You bad mouth the Intrigue in your reviews; maybe we should do the same about TownHall to site that review other web sites.
I like my friend's Saab that she is trading in on the CL-S. It is not as quiet as could be with the big rear hatch but it rides and drives sporty with the stick, turbo, and relatively light weight.
96gs,
I posted the almost identical message in response to one2one, but it got lost in space somehow. Ditto on what you said, and i also wanted to add that the 3.4L is a 60 degree engine, which is why it is used in the minivans. I am not sure the 90 degree 3800 would fit in the minivans.
As far as posting is concerned, so far I haven't had any problems. I guess I just may be lucky. I probably spoke too soon.
BTW.. the old 3.4L twin cam did indeed have many problems, but it was a pretty neat design. 3.5L is King though!
Plus, having just purchased an 2000 Intrigue GLS in September, I will be in possession of the $1000-1500 Oldsmobile orphan rebate.
Mr.blinky, i understand that 3.5L will make 225 horsepower in the cadillac.
The 3.5L on the other hand is a gem and is very reliable. The Cadillac version will indeed produce 225HP. I guess that means the Intrigue version will never get a boost in HP.
DETROIT -- General Motors Corp. intends to eliminate 16 of its 80 vehicle models by 2004, a cost-cutting move that industry analysts say could set the stage for the closing of a handful of assembly plants in the United States and Canada.
Industry analysts said vehicles such as the Sunfire, Pontiac's version of the compact Chevrolet Cavalier, could be eliminated. Other models that might go: the Buick Century or Regal and Park Avenue, Cadillac Eldorado, Chevrolet Camaro and Prizm, GMC Sonoma and Pontiac Firebird and Bonneville.
dave