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Oldsmobile Intrigue

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  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Who do you think GM will can next? Buick or Pontiac? It will probably
    be down to Chevy, Caddy, and Saturn and possibly one other. Hope i didn't offend anyone with my Saab comments.
    If GM were to get rid of GMC light trucks that would put an awful lot of dealerships out of business since many of them are also Pontiac dealerships.
    If Gm wants Chevy to by the torch bearer they are going to have to put some serious efforts into their interior quality and design.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,285
    Trying this a second time. It vanished into space the first time.

    Quoting dindak: "Industry analysts said vehicles such as the Sunfire, Pontiac's version of the compact Chevrolet Cavalier, could be eliminated. Other models that might go: the Buick Century or Regal and Park Avenue, Cadillac Eldorado, Chevrolet Camaro and Prizm, GMC Sonoma and Pontiac Firebird and Bonneville."

    If Olds' 5 models are included, the 16 models become 11. The Eldo is a possibility as it's long in the tooth, and the Catera hasn't set the world on fire. The Century/Regal overlap, so they could be consolidated, but Buick has made hay for years by selling a Buick priced in Pontiac territory. The Saturn L-series is nowhere (Did you know Saturn sells fewer cars than Olds?) but they appear untouchable at GM. Kill the Aztek, the Montana, and maybe the Bonne. Maybe kill both the Cavalier and Sunbird, and give that part of the market to Saturn. Chop either Chevy truck or GMC. If they do these things GM might have to try to move Pontiac upmarket a bit to avoid overlap with Chevy and fill some of Olds' niche.

    But I really don't care anymore. The killing of Olds has soured me on GM and shown me how much in disarray they really are. If I could give my $2500 in GM card money to charity, I would. I doubt if I'll ever buy a GM car again.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    I think as long as GM is axing divisions, they should go down to four:

    1) Cadillac: luxury division. Extend a but more 'down' to the buick market with a few lower-end cars that share components/chassis with chevy. target: Domestic luxury buyer

    2) Saab: european luxury division, testing radical technologies and designs. Target: european import buyer

    3) Chevy: affordable domestic workingman's vehicles, all good bang-for-the-buck be they trucks, sedans, or sportscars. Offer more performace-oriented trim/versions of most of the sedans to satisfy the pontiac buyer, and a more luxury version to satisfy the olds buyer.

    4) Saturn. Reliable efficient safe cars. Target: the japanese import buyer.

    I think that this way, there would not be so much brand overlap, and more advertising could be given to each model. And maybe try to upgrade quality in the process?

    dave
  • etharmonetharmon Member Posts: 399
    This is just a test as I'm about to post a message.
  • etharmonetharmon Member Posts: 399
    Dropping the 3.5 is a big mistake for GM. I don't see how it is that expensive to produce as it shares alot of it's architecture with the Northstar V8s and while the 3.5 is a sophisticated engine, it doesn't have alot of expensive extras like variable valve timing or a turbo charger. From what I have read up until now, the 3800 is going to be phased out and the 3.5 will take it's place. This makes sense. As for the 3400, this engine too is going to be phased out in a few years as GM is working on a new line of smaller displacement DOHC V6 engines. The 3400 and the DOHC 3.4 which was originally intended for the Intrigue are distantly related, but are two totally different engines. Confused now? Basically, the DOHC 3.4 was an enlarged version of the 60 degree 3.1 liter OHV V6 which was converted to DOHC. IMO, the time and money spent doing this should have been spent on building a new DOHC V6 from the ground up as the 3.4 had problems. The obvious was a pushrod engine(the 3800) was smoother, more efficient, more reliable and more powerful while probably cheaper to build. Putting the 3800 V6 in first year Intrigues was a wise move as I would not have got the car if it had the 3.4. Now, the 3400 V6 is an enlarged version of the 3.1 of which the DOHC 3.4 was based. The 3400 is a decent engine and is pretty reliable, but it is not as smooth or refined as the 3800 V6 or any other DOHC engine in it's class.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    etharmon: They won't dump the 3.5L. The engine is award winning and the best V6 GM has. It will live in many new future cars.

    rcoos: I agree, GMC is not needed. Just make all the trucks Chevy's.

    isellpotiac: Oldsmobile will not be killed off in 1 year. One or two models may die in a year or two, but I am sure it will take way longer than a year just to settle with dealers. I give Oldsmobile 4-5 years tops though. Last ones will be Bravada and Aurora.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    From Ward's Automotive web site for the 10 best engines of 2000, they did say this about the Intrigue motor:

    "It doubtless is not a cheap engine; in fact, to watch one built component-by-component, it looks positively lavish yet now comes standard in the modestly priced Intrigue and will be the base engine for the 2001 Aurora starting this spring. Probably nowhere else can you buy so much engine excellence at such reasonable cost."
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Undoubtly the 3.5L costs a lot to build this is probably why GM gave it to Olds since it is a higher line car, it could absorb some of the cost. This engine is also all aluminum which adds greatly to the cost.
    The vortec 4200 is not an option for front wheel drive cars because it is too long. Supposedly there will be a inline 5 version, but who wants that.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    The main reason why the 3800 Series II OHV V-6 engine will be discontinued is due to tougher government emissions requirements past the year 2005. The current 3800 powerplant is ULEV certified; however, from an engineering standpoint GM can't do any more tinkering on this powerplant to make it meet the upcoming SULEV regulations. Aside from this obvious fact, other points to consider are:

    * Current buyers favor OHC engines over OHV engines (Funny thing most of them will never use the cammed engine to its full revving potential
    under normal driving conditions). However, OHV engines (Yes archaic and bla,bla,bla) still go around in circles to the more sophisticated and "politically correct" cammed powerplants. OHV are better suited to everyday urban driving conditions were strong neck snapping low end torque takes priority over Rocket Thrust screaming high RPM torque.

    * The current 3.5L DOHC V-6 engine is capable of further techical enhancements that will improve the engine's low end torque stats (The 3800 still beats the 3.5L in this area of performance)and even the addition of force induction, etc.

    * With the demise of Oldsmobile, the 3.5L V-6 engine is no longer exclusive "Domain" of this division and soon during the 3800 Phase out stage, most GM intermidiates will benefit from the "Shortstar" powerplant. My prediction is that the all new 2003 Pontiac GP and Buick Regal (First two models to be switched over to the Mid-Lux platform) perhaps will offer the 3.5L as standard equipment and possibly a forced induction version on the GTP and GS models.

    * The 3.5L is perhaps a great engineering achievment from the General and this engine easily beats the pants off of the current wimpy 3.0L V-6 engines from Honda and Toyota (Include also Ford's lousy Duratec and the so-so 3.2L OHC from Chrysler). Keep in mind, however, that the 3.5L powerplant is more complex in nature and much more expensive to manufacture but if the general wants to recover lost market share they'll have no choice but to "Bite the Bullet" of the extra costs and concentrate further development efforts on the "Northstar" family of cammed engines.

    * Perhaps the 3.5L engine will be the new "Bread and butter" powerplant for the General much in the same fashion as the 3800 Series I and II has been so far. The 3800 still offers many advantages including low manufacturing costs, great acceleration from a standstill (Even better on S/C form), extensive aftermarket support, unsurpassed durability, great fuel economy and very low cost maintenance. Even after the 3800 passes to the hall of fame of automotive history, this engine will be kicking around for a long time to come due to the support and great fan following this motor currently enjoys and has developed since decades ago. The 3800 has had some impressive milestones spanning over 4 decades...hopefully the 3.5L will pick up on this legacy as well.

    Also with the closure of Oldsmobile I also predict that Chevrolet, Pontiac and Buick (If It is survives) their products will go upscale and will be even tougher contenders against the Japanese "Appliance" looking and feeling sedans giving a true run for the money with superior performance, feature content, safety, quality and reliability. Oldsmobile carved the path for the upcoming complete turn around of GM as a car company and its products. The Olds legacy will live on the other divisions....this is indeed an exciting time for all of us that admire GM's engineering prowess and have longed for the company's strong comeback into the marketplace...just watch and see..
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    toe: Some really good points there. I agree, I think the 3800's days are limited as regulations tighten up. I read exactly what you are saying in an article a while back.
  • isellpotiacisellpotiac Member Posts: 122
    Oldsmobile is offering 60,000 GMPP extended warranty on all unused Oldsmobiles. Anyone who is considering purchasing an Oldsmobile should do it NOW. Find a 2000 model and take advantage of the rebates. You may never find a better deal and the reason Oldsmobile is doing this is to keep the product moving. Do not wait and let edmunds talk you out of this deal. I do not sell Oldsmobile new but I am telling customers I cannot put together on a Pontiac to go buy an Oldsmobile.
  • regalluvr1regalluvr1 Member Posts: 53
    I sure will hate to see the old reliable 3800 pushrod motor go.I'm not a big fan of the high winding OHC motors.Give me the low end torque of a 3800.Come ride with me in my 98 Regal GS or my 86 T-Type Regal and I will show you what these old out of date unrefined push rod motors will do!I sure hate to see Olds go too.
  • tandertander Member Posts: 21
    I have a 99 Intrigue GL from when the 3.5L was an option. I love it. I test drove a Camry about an hour after test driving the 3.5L Intrigue and the Camry felt like a grandad car. I predict 3.5L's will be sought after just like 427 ci Vettes or 350 ci Z28 Camaros. In short, people will want the Intrigue just to have the 3.5L.
  • etharmonetharmon Member Posts: 399
    Is the 60 month GMPP warranty just on remaining 2000 models? Those are getting hard to come buy. I looked on the GM power buy website and two dealers in my area still have a few 2000 Intrigues, but they are White and Sandstone which are not colors I want.

    Tander- I predict, as have others here, that the 3.5 liter DOHC V6 will live on in other GM cars. The next generation Cadillac Catera would be the obvious choice as well as the next generation Regal and Grand Prix. Changes in the market as well as increasing emmission regulations will probably spell doom for the 3800. Buyers of imports want a car that idles smoothly and has a smooth sound to it and while the 3800 series II is not bad in these areas, the 3.5 is certainly better.
  • ickesickes Member Posts: 82
    i can't post anything to save my life...
  • ickesickes Member Posts: 82
    to post this forever, but keep getting routed to the $*%@login page!!! Its still within the current topic stream so hear goes:

    I have also read that the 3.5l was too expensive for broad use in GMs
    products. However, I noted reading an artical in C/D that the 3.5 was
    supposed to be INEXPENSIVE because they didn't use all kind of high-tech do-dads like VTEC. However, I think that because it was derived from the Northstar, it was more expensive out of the box. I had read that the new V-6s GM is building are to replace the old pushrod 3.1, 3.4 and 3.8 engines. GM is also set to buy Honda V-6s for future Saturns (Sad when the largest Auto company can't seem to manufacture an engine refined as the competition - Honda makes some of the best engines in the World from lawn mowers to cars - geez I sound like JRIFF) The 3.5l I have only heard to be scheduled for the Sigma based CTS (See Popular Mechanics spy phot pages).

    As for Saab, at least it has some identity other than a Chevy, Pontiac or Buick clone. Historically, Saabs have been problematic cars. However, the switch to GM platforms for the current cars has improved things significantly. Automobile and C/D both just had long term tests of 9-5 wagons and loved them. Even Consumer Reports recommends the 9-5.

    Speaking of Consumer Reports, the Intrigue was the highest rated W-Body followed by the GP. Of course, JRIFF would point out that the text says that the car "doesn't hold a candle to the competition" in the form of Maxima, Accord (of course), Camry or Passat (the highest rated sedan). The tables at the front of their new car summary also rate the Intrigue as the best domestic sedan, yet it is below the afformentioned competition...

    As for the models being discontinued as part of GM's plan to eliminate 20% of its current products, most of them are those that are poor sellers or due to be replaced anyway from what I have read. Such models include all Oldsmobiles, Camaro/Firebird, Sunfire, Metro, Prizm, Lumina (still sold to fleets), Astro/Safari, Eldorado, Park Avenue. I agree that Buick should can the Century and think Pontiac should combine the Bonneville and GP when the new Epsillon platform replacements appear.

    What really irks me about GM is 1st that their models overlap and then there is no consistency. For instance, the Saturn LS and Malibu are basically identical in terms of overall dimensions. The Saturn LS is the bare minimum product that GM needs to be selling in order to compete. The Malibu is so outdated its not even funny.

    There was an Opinion piece in the Minneapolis Star Tribune today copied from a Washington Post writer. The jist of the column was that he was glad to see Olds go because they no longer made the Delta 88 that they did in the 60-70s. Its this perception of Olds that caused GM to kill it. These people need to realize that Buick is for them and Olds was to be for all of us who grew up with Accords and Camry in the 80s. At some point the brand (and GM overall) needed to evolve with the times, but the market (or GM's failure to position
    Olds in it)didn't catch on. Hopefully, GM can save themselves...
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Honda does in fact make great engines i drove the v6 accord before i got the intrigue and the honda was a little smoother and a little quieter. But the extra dispacement and the 30 ft lbs of torque sold me on the intrigue. The honda was definitely slower than the intrigue from a stop. The 0-60 times are close however.
    The engines that chrysler offers aren't even in the same league as the shortstar.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    Has good competent engines (V-6 form) but their only current bright spot is their 3.2L DOHC V-6 with 260HP. Honda's V-6 have failed to impress the critics as they lack strong low end torque, use premium gas, have worse mileage ratings when compared to the 3.5/3.8 engines from the General and generally have been sleepers for years. The first Honda Accord sold with a V-6 was the 1995 model that had the 2.7L engine and then it grew to 3.0L (Even Honda recognizes that there is no replacement for displacement)that engine was the biggest dissapointment for the Honda fans that anxiously waited for a V-6 Accord as the only other alternative at the time was the costlier 3.2TL (Just introduced) and the larger Legend sedans. Keep in mind that Toyota has been offering a V-6 powered Camry since 1988 and that engine has been superior to the 2.7L and 3.0L variants from Honda. Honda has been generally much more slower to respond than Toyota in the large engine department. In 1989 the Lexus LS400 (A bargain $35,000 car at the time) already boasted a world class V-8 cammed engine when Acura was struggling to keep up with their wimpy 2.5L V-6 on their first generation Legends. Exactly, 12 years after Toyota introduced the V-8 1989 Lexus LS400, Honda has finally realized (DUH!) that if Acura is to position itself as a truly competitive Luxury/Performance marque (Not the mere current Near Luxury/Value/Honda Accord owners step up reputation)they need to stuff a V-8 engine and RWD on their upcoming 2002 RL flagship sedan...12 years too late (Acura still doesn't have the reputation of Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, MB to this day in despite of their recent efforts to improve the TL/CL models) into the game.

    I personally dislike Honda automatic transmissions. The General holds the candle 100 times over Honda in this regard. Newer Honda automatics have improved on the annoying Jerky/shift hunting patterns, but still they are way behind GM's automatics. However, where Honda spanks the General is in the manual transmission dept...that's another story. Perhaps GM/Honda can trade V-6 engines/Automatic trannies/Manual trannies respectively...
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Yep. I was completely underwhelmed by the honda's transmission, especially its unwillingness to kick down at part throttle and its indecision on what gear to choose. There also seemed to be some lag and the shifts were not as smooth as the generals.
    I do think that a five speed auto would help GM vehicles have even a better advantage over the hondas. The acura does have a five speed, though i have heard that they are not as reliable as our cars.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,285
    Quoting above: "The Olds legacy will live on the other divisions....this is indeed an exciting time for all of us that admire GM's engineering prowess and have longed for the company's strong comeback into the marketplace...just watch and see.. "

    Well, I dunno. All of the preceding discussion centering on this and the future of the 3.5 seems questionable to me. First of all, Olds legacy may well be the failure of GM to convince buyers that they can compete against the Accords and Camrys of the world. Not that the Intrigue isn't a good car because I believe it is, but the marketplce didn't agree. One wonders what GM will interpret from this.

    Someone else said the Saturn L-series is what GM needs. I don't think so. I haven't driven it, and have no desire to, because it is about the most bland, dull-looking thing out there. Again, it may be a good car from a technical standpoint, but they can't give them away. What should GM learn from that? Maybe that they need to give people more than an appliance.

    I think that GM most of all, but all of the domestic makers to some extent, have made a serious error by trying to force-feed import-style cars into the marketplace. Yes, there is a significant market for them, but there is also a significant market for a more traditional-style domestic car. Someone said Buick is for those folks, but even Buicks are front-drive interpretation of the style and don't satisfy part of the market. Even a stripper Buick is in the price range of a reasonably well-equipped Pontiac or Chevy, and looks stripped, at least in the case of a Century. And for many traditional Olds buyers, the Buick was the old man's car, not Olds, despite what the current spin is saying.

    A local Olds salesman was relating a tale of losing sales to longtime buyers who came in looking for an Olds and were unimpressed by the Intrigue or Alero, despite their good qualities, because it wasn't what they wanted. What they wanted was what they always got: a traditional domestic car. You think if GM had kept the rear-drive Cutlass platform from the 80s updated, they would have sold? Damn right -- probably millions. But they dropped it to try and do what GM always did -- dictate to the market what GM thought it should have. A front-drive, chromeless appliance with a gray fuzzy-cloth interior with absolutely no charm or flash. Only this time, the market went elsewhere.

    Don't get me wrong -- I like the Intrigue, at least in certain color/trim combos. But I tend to agree witht the guy from the Washington Post -- if Olds was no longer allowed to build the kind of cars that it did best and that it's buyers wanted, maybe it's just as well it's going. They weren't what a lot of us consider Oldsmobiles anyway.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • one2oneone2one Member Posts: 626
    According to yesterday's article in USAToday, GM bumped the loyalty rebate by $500 ($1,000 for Aurora). If I read correctly, that means we should be getting a $2,000 rebate. The article continues by saying that anyone purchasing a 2000 Intrigue gets a total of $4,000 off the purchase. I doubt any of us would get a 2000 model in view of the changes Harlanc said are in store for '02 but I would think it is a portent of what's to come if they do indeed produce '02 Intrigues.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/consumer/autos/mauto964.htm
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The Accord is an ok appliance, but it's dull to drive/ look. As for the transmissions, I think I mentioned before my neighbor had his replace in a 99 4-cyl Accord. I think he wishes he bought my Intrigue for not much more $$.
  • shanianshanian Member Posts: 26
    while simultaneously acquiring them for billions from abroad?
    GM bought interests in SAAB, Subaru, is trying for daewoo etc. Were there not other options like focusing on just the coasts for eg. One of GM's remaining values was the fact that people who did not want to drive generic cars could get a choice of sheetmetal within a couple of thousand dollars. Also if the decision had already been made to eliminate Olds, atleast they could have used it as a trial balloon brand for hybrid car technology or something.
    Much is made of brand confusion, overlap, low volume etc. Yet there are several brands both upscale and downscale that sell fewer than Olds. For the likes of Kia Hyundai and Vw the US may be an overflow market, so they do not figure the marketing costs in quite the same way. Well GM could have made the same determination, that Chevy and Cadillac are the real brands, and the others are packaging excercises, which is what it had come down to anyway. It just doesn't make sense to kill a brand, when the info tech the cost of target maketing is trending downwards. The long term effect of this will be to further cheapen the automobile into a generic product like a washing machine, imagine if 10 years down the road there are only 6 global auto makers all producing auto appliances. Well, may be it will be good for the environment, if people start viewing cars as mere transportation.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    Honda just puts too skinny tires on the Accord and set the dampening a bit too soft to please the majority of the North American appliance drivers' marketplace. They have a sporty Type-R Accord overseas but most North Americans want to be pampered while they talk on the cell phone and eat fast food, not get too involved in driving. I'm opening up branch offices overseas and the Carribean over the next 6 months, I'm looking forward to seeing different car "cultures" and renting some we don't see over here.

    I guess a lot of the older generation may still have gone to Olds in the late ninteties and or even this year expecting land yacht boaty chrome bench seat vehicles with big digital speedos or just a speedo and no odometer. Buick is the closest you can get to that now and they are not doing too hot. If this type of car was THAT in demand, the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis would be dominating the market.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,285
    Nah, not the Crown Vic. But try most any big SUV. That's exactly what they are. And they're selling like crazy because people who want a v-8 powered, rear-drive, big boat of a vehicle can only get it in a SUV that never, ever, gets off pavement.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • 96gs96gs Member Posts: 86
    I've had more than a few choice words for SUV drivers the past week as we have endured snowstorm after snowstorm. The SUV idiots just don't slow down and they tailgate you too. It makes my blood boil to the point of exploding. They think they are indestructible. "I have 4WD, I can do anything!"
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    75% of people in SUVs are idiots. I think some of my own friends that have them drive like idiots. Lots of snow these past 2 weeks and lots of SUVs in the ditch, more than ANY other kind of vehicle. Intrigue is just fine in the snow, thank you very much!
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    The Ford Taurus has been the "Bread and Butter" midsize sedan of the FoMoCo since it was introduced in 1986. While the car can be credited for helping improve the image of domestic cars of the era, it was a flop in the quality and reliability dept. The Taurus has had one of the most tainted reliability track records of any domestic sedan in recent history, the worst resale value, yet these things still sell like hot cakes! Ford has been successful as to offer the Taurus as the only "True" domestic alternative to the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry, its two long time rivals. While the quality has improved since 1997 and with the exception of the early 1990's SHO models, the Taurus is still pretty much a mediocre sedan, with mediocre engines, mediocre transmissions and questionable long term reliability. It took for 11 years to bring the dismal relaibility to just "average" ratings. Then you might ask..what Ford did right? Well for once, MARKETING...they shoved these cars down people's throats and they have been doing so for 15 years. The Ford Marketing people has positioned and packaged the Taurus to appeal to the "Appliance" type of car buyer (Or Mainstream)however quality is never been the Taurus' strong suite. Also the Taurus is usually much cheaper than comparably equipped GM W-body sedans, but again who will pay $24,000 for a regular Taurus?..think again...agressive pricing keeps them afloat. A new full equipped Taurus can be had for under $20K..

    Now look at the Intrigue....light years ahead of the ancient Taurus sedan with everyhing the Taurus will never have.....superb technology, much better quality, style, etc..

    What killed the Intrigue:

    * High price (Too high and much more than a domestic sedan buyer was willing to pay)

    * Quality glitches (This car was rushed to production and some quality issues were left out, critical to the success of this car in the market place and price point class...still this car is better than any Taurus past or present.)

    * No marketing campaigns or Efforts

    * The name 'Oldsmobile'...sorry but this name still sounds like that..OLD, Outdated, rusty, etc.....should have been called the GM Aurora or something else...doesn't ring prestige or Import status..nothing like that....
  • ketchketch Member Posts: 217
    In post 620, its surmised that perhaps Olds should have kept the RWD Cutlass around, perhaps updating it. The coupe was the seller, not the 4 door anyways, and so have you looked at how dried up the coupe market is anyways, FWD or RWD. lately? No, thats not the answer. Marketing was, as was as John Rock now wishes: rename the division to Aurora, oh, and drop LEO Burkett as the ad ageny (same one since 1930's!).
  • ketchketch Member Posts: 217
    from post 616....this get the marketing miss pretty close:
    "There was an Opinion piece in the Minneapolis Star Tribune today copied from a Washington Post writer. The jist of the column was that he was glad to see Olds go because they no longer made the Delta 88 that they did in the 60-70s. Its this perception of Olds that caused GM to kill it. These people need to realize that Buick is for them and Olds was to be for all of us who grew up with Accords and Camry in the 80s."

    ...and those Buick buyers are dying off BTW. Caddillac relaized this/still is, and hopes to continue its re-alignment, esp. to RWD to go after the German makes. Success is unknown yet, but Buick better do some long rnge planning lest they end up like Olds.
  • etharmonetharmon Member Posts: 399
    This post is a test
  • etharmonetharmon Member Posts: 399
    Again, I think Olds failed because of poor marketing. The number one reason that the Ford Taurus sells so well(besides fleet sales) is Ford's marketing. Ditto on the Camry and Accord. How often do you see ads on tv for the Taurus, Accord, or Camry? Now how often do you see ads for the Intrigue? Or the Regal for that matter. The product was right and the price was pretty good, but the word was not out to everyday buyers. As for Honda engines, they are good engines and get alot of power out of pretty small displacement, but they have one major flaw. They still use a timing belt!!! This may seem trivial, but Honda engines are interference engines and you snap that belt at 5500 rpms and you may be looking at major damage. GM uses timing chains on all of their engines.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    If the intrigue had been priced at $1000 less across the trim line, we probably wouldn't be talking about the death of olds.When someone can go get a taurus for $18,000 and the intrigue costs $22,000 there is sticker shock. That $4000 is about $80 a month on a payment.
    Also the aurora is overpriced. You are asking somebody to spend $30,000 when they can go buy a Lesabre for $22,000. Which is the same
    as the intrigue.
    Also you can't get PCS without the spoiler. If you want a GLS in 2002 you get the sun roof whether you want it or not.
  • bryangzbryangz Member Posts: 24
    Get your "Dear John" letter from Olds? Considering I just bought my Intrigue in June, of what use is a $1000 or $1500 rebate to me? At least they could have offered extending the warranty for a year!

    On the otherhand, my 2000 Intrigue with 5800 miles on it is still as structurally rigid as the day I bought it. The 3.5 is a great engine (though it does tend to use a little oil, but that seems to be common place). I think what it boils down to is that GM didn't advertise and as someone said above, the sticker prices on Olds were just too high. Of course, you could get great leases or low, low financing, but I'm sure many people just walked off the lot with sticker shock. So what are we left with: Cadillac--out of my price range, Buick--nice cars, but geared towards those who prefer cars that handle like those of yesteryear, Pontiac--the sport division, but whose cars tend to ride way to rough, and of course Chevy--take the Impala, good platform, cheap interior.
    Olds was moving in the right direction, good interiors and a firm but not jarring ride, combining sportiness and handling.

    Oh well , won't have to worry about buying a new car for five years anyway.

    Bryan
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Check out the edmunds roadtest of the new trailblazer, envoy and bravada. It was published today and has new info about the suv's.
    The envoy has nickel clad door handles and nickel clad rings around the gauges. One negative is that they said the engines were noisy at high rpms.
  • dwgdwg Member Posts: 43
    I wouldn't put too much faith in Edmund's tests of the new GM SUVs. Every car mag I've seen has raved about how smooooooth the new 4.2l Vortec is in the Bravada (same engine in the TrailBlazer and Envoy). Only Edmund's could whine about the high RPM noise in an SUV.

    As for Olds, has anybody seen AutoWeek's 12/25 issue? Some nice stories about the Olds line and GM's general bungling en route to the death of the division. I go back and forth on GM's decision. On one hand, GM has too many cars in the market place. But why kill the one brand that actually was earning some praise among auto enthusiasts? In the short run, it was the right decision -- Olds' sales were down and falling. But the demographics were working in Olds' favor. They aren't working in Buick's favor.

    One has to wonder just what the future holds for GM.

    dwg
  • etharmonetharmon Member Posts: 399
    I haven't received anything from Olds yet. How long is the $1500 voucher good for. Also, as someone mentioned in an earlier posts, the total discounts on a 2000 with the voucher is now $4000. My question is, can one also take advantage of the 0.9% financing? I pulled up the website for my local Olds dealer and they have a 2000 Ruby and Black GLS in stock which was different from what the GM Powerbuy site said. Anyhow, while it's not Midnight Blue, I could settle for Ruby or Black if I got a really good deal. As for Olds pricing, I think the Intrigue is priced right. However, I think that Olds should have priced it lower for at least the first year to spark additional interest and also included a few optional features as standard. All GX models should have remote keyless entry and the 60/40 rear seat, all GL models should have the cd player standard(I think it is for 2001) and GLS models should have the Bose sound system and sunroof standard. Onstar should continue to be optional.
  • swagledswagled Member Posts: 195
    In spite of the demise of Oldsmobile, I'm still planning on buying one for the same reasons that lead me to consider the brand in the first place. I think people eggagerate the "orphan" stigma. Many used car models are "orphans" but people still buy and sell them, and drive them daily.

    I could worry about reliability, but I prefer to recognize that cars today are much better than they have been, even if the asians are still a few percentiles ahead in quality. The reliability of the "problematic" early Intrigues has to be better than it was for American sedans of the early 70's to mid 80's.

    Heck, even I had a '74 Plymouth once. It leaked water and squeaked. But it did it's job, and in the end, I actually considered it an OK car for the standards of its time. So I'll probably be satisfied with a new Intrigue, even if the lights do flicker a little and I take it in for some warranty work.

    I have to say, the rebates and incentives now on leftover 2000 models are really impressive. Most of the 2000's are white or forest green, but if that's OK with you, it really is a good value. Those of you with access to those additional $1500 vouchers really should get off the fence!!
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    bz4 : I disagree with your comment on pricing. While Intrigue was more than a crappy Taurus, it was competitive with other premium sedans like the V6 Accord, Camry and Maxima. I was more than happy to pay a bit more for something a little nicer.

    I may be using the coupon we get to buy a new Trailblazer. I don't think I can afford a Bravada at this point. I guess we will have to see how long these coupons are good for.

    swagled : Good for you! I think the Intrigue is still a great buy and although re-sale may suffer slightly in a few years, I don't think it will be a big drop.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    this log-in deal is really getting on my nerves.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Okay, I posted about the login just to test. Then i typed a post in response to dindak and tried to post it.....and it told me to log in.
    Exsqueeze me?
  • one2oneone2one Member Posts: 626
    I think I have to agree with b4z on this one. While dindak makes a good point about the Intrigue being priced around the same as an Accord or Camry, the truth of the matter is the Intrigue is NOT a Camry or Accord. The thinking that people who by Honda and Toyota and who **might** consider an Intrigue is: "They're about the same price; but for the same money I would rather take the asian quality and reliability."

    Therefore, I think that the Intrigue's price should have been slightly lower than what it was/is advertised for. I understand GM's argument perfectly. A base Intrigue gives you more things standard than a mid-level Camry that cost more. And when looked at that way the Intrigue is the winner hands down. But Olds' dilema is/was getting import buyers to see that which goes back to marketing.

    I think lower pricing and marketing (if GM wants to sell these new SUV, they're going to have to advertise all through the model year. Not just during the release) would have improved the sales of all of Olds models.

    As for the voucher, I'm holding out.

    b4z:: Since I know I can squeeze into a V-8 Aurora I think I'll try to get one. Dealers should be giving them away. There was a dealer near me a couple of years ago that was closing its doors and was going to give me a Bonniville SSEi with all the fixin's for $27,000 and change. Too bad I wasn't looking to buy. I've got a very good relationship with the finance manager of the dealer where I bought my Intrigue from. I'm almost sure he's going to cut his throat to move his inventory. And if he does, I plan on cruising in a 2001 Aurora. I doubt any changes will be made for 2002.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    While what you say about the price point on Camry and Accord might be true, you also have to remember that when you factor in incentives and price flexibility, the Intrigue is indeed less expensive that it's Asian cousins. Further, I would argue that Intrigue packs more features and a nicer interior that either Camry or Accord. Intrigue was well priced and as I said before.. I had not problem paying a bit extra to get a nicer car. Too bad the marketing sucked so bad.
  • white6white6 Member Posts: 588
    Short lesson in Oldsmobile service... took my 99 GL into Bob Moore Cadillac/Buick/Oldsmobile for the "flickering headlight" problem in mid-November. They replaced the battery. Problem continued. Returned a week later. They checked all the grounds and the alternator. Problem continued. Read post that Olds has a redesigned alternator available to fix this problem. Informed service advisor that he should check with Olds tech support. He tells me, "Good idea." Calls to say, yes, they have a redesigned alternator to fix this problem. Bring the car in Monday morning. Monday afternoon, service advisor calls to inform me that the redesigned alternator won't be available for 60 days. Come pick up your car, we can't fix it for two months. The problem had gotten so bad, my wife was terrified she wouldn't get home Tuesday night (near blizzard conditions, 5 miles from home). I tell them if they can't fix the car, we need a rental, as the car is not reliable. He promises that the car will not quit. I call Oldsmobile. He says the same thing. I ask him if he will pay for my funeral when the headlights go out and I drive into a ditch. He says, hmmmm, maybe this is a safety problem. Long story short, they are installing a new alternator this afternoon, and will install a redesigned alternator when they get one in approximately 60 days. Point is, I have spent $95,000 on new GM products in the last 5 years. I will not buy another. The problems I am now having are not simply defective parts, but defective design and engineering. First my GMC truck (bought back, but not without a fight) and now this incredible act of negligence by Olds. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    test
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    test
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Am i the only one having problems posting?
    My point about the intrigue's pricing is that I looked at both the accord and intrigue and a fully loaded accord ex was about 25-26K a fully loaded intrigue GLS was about 28,000. Domestics have always had a price advantage over japanese cars. The intrigue would have sold better if it had started at $1000 less. It would have been more attractive to import buiyers and would have stolen buyers from regal, the ford offerings and probably the intrepid.
    To those who won't consider GM products again, it has been my personal experience that GM is more liberal replacing parts than just about any other manufacturer.
    Yes, there are engineering and manufacturing problems that need to be resolved with these cars.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Where are you? In florida buying that condo?
  • j_colemanj_coleman Member Posts: 143
    I haven't heard from 1415 in a while. I'm going to FLA tomorrow, so maybe I'll look for him.

    What's the deal with the defective alternators? Which model years are bad?
  • limadeltalimadelta Member Posts: 49
    For those of us experiencing the flickering headlight phenom; It is interesting that we need to rely on this news group to discover the redesigned alternator fix. When I went to my Olds dealer and told him what I noticed, he called the tech center and in 5 minutes told me about the new alternator.

    I trust my Olds dealer and it sounds like some of you have dealers that want to carry the Olds logo out front, but don't want to actually do customer service. I still have not received my $1500 loyalty reward nor has my car got license plates. I would like more from GM than the $1500.

    I think they should let me trade this Intrigue in for the '02, with no hit on trade in, sell the GLS for at a 'loyal' Olds customer discount and apply the $1500. Hard to believe that GM would direct me to their other divisions when the other divisions are not as forward thinking as Olds is/was. They better get a motor head in there that has a good right hand marketing man (or woman)sitting right next to them.
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