that 30k price is the MSRP for fully loaded Intrigue. Not everyone is into car-price haggling thing. That 30 down to 26.5 is just GM's feel good discount.
I paid 27 for my Acura CL it is many times, a better car than my Intrigue was, after just 5 short months & 5k miles. Service has been great, plus loaner car, 48/50k versus 36/36, plus the only service has been an oil change [switched to Mobil-1].
I'm not talking "stripped" I'm talking fully loaded "apples to apples". Heck you can get a Accord LX for around 17-18k or a DX around 15.5. The Intrigue was never in that price-range, of course you're comparing a 4-banger to a six.
The impala may very well be screwed together better, but i have sat in many of them and the design and materials are just cheaper. Especially the dashboard and the plastic on the doors. The intrigue interior reminds me of the '90 Lexus. the intrigue has a much airier cabin and a more luxurious feel. The interior of the impala, especially in the weak grey color appears to be of lesser quality.
Just got on edmunds new car site and added up every available option. Including shipping, block heater, gold pacjkage, etc. I came up with a maximum MSRP of $30,080. I don't think this includes the value pricing.
jgriff:::: Go easy fellow, why do you preach about those tin cans!!!! I am not in love with the Intrigue but as a fellow American; please give us a little space. You have a full 5,000 miles on your Acura--and we have to listen to your ranting and raving over a hayseed product???? Sounds as though you have used your friendly car dealer's loaner...you talk about Honda as though there is a free lunch somewhere..
I would appreciate if you would try to figure out how America got to where it is at today and give up praising the Buddha..Try to picture where our society will be 25 yrs from now if everybody adopted your attitude. When Algore gives his bitter pill speech tonight please don't feel let down...Don't listen to CNN and MSNBC too long for it will totally mess up your mind...
When acura builds a car that i am comfortable in, i will consider it. You will probably not keep your acura long enough to find out how expensive they are, once the warranty runs out. Last summer a friend of mine discovered that it would cost over $500 to replace the bose speaker in her door of her acura legend. 2 years ago we replaced the motor and regulator in my sister's accord. It cost almost $500 for that repair. You won't find any american car that has parts that cost that much. If you want to start talking about alternators, water pumps and starters we can do that too. I haven't even talked about the proverbial timing belt replacement that the intrigue doesn't need. How's the premium gas working out?
Sorry to hear about Oldsmobile's untimely demise. Throughout the years I've owned five of them; all first rate cars. I think that the death of Olds is a symptom of a much larger disease at General Motors. Complacency and lack of customer focus. My current automobile, a Buick Regal GS, is my first new automobile purchase. I've not had many problems with the car, and the few that I've had have been covered under warranty by the dealer. I have had a recurring problem with the rear speakers cracking that Buick has threatened to no longer cover under warranty. I've written two letters of complaint (one to Buick customer service, and the other to the Regal brand manager). Would believe that after six months I have never even received an acknowledgment? Both letters were pleasant and business like mind you. This shows me where General Motors is in their commitment to customer satisfaction. They would rather lose a customer than take 30 minutes to respond to a letter. This uncaring attitude by GM will make it very difficult for me to consider another GM car. And they wonder why their market share is in a constant decline. Maybe it is not so much the product as the people representing it!
jgriff: $26.5K is not a "feel good discount". It is MSRP for an Intrigue GLS, which I believe has every option that an Accord EX V6 has except for a sunroof. No haggling involved to get $2000 to $3000 off one of these. Pick up the Sunday paper and check the automotive section. Dealers want to dump them like there's no tomorrow. Shouldn't be hard to get one with a sunroof for around $25K.
detroitfea:::::I go the BMW for quality; but dealer setup and stick shift is out. Two-time Porsche owner-new-at factory delivery.
Asian cars don't cut the grade--Toyota is worse than Honda..
bz4::::::Right on with slow burn about those fragile Acuras. The Asian cars are the most sought after by the thieves due to the high cost of replacement parts...Back to Fla on Fri until 1/04/01...Sold the condo; now I have to buy somewhere and something quick...Snowing again in the Motor City; another couple inches. How's the pocket rocket???
Speaking about Asian parts; I spent about six months calling on an Asian owned supplier of a/c compressors to the transplants and Chrysler. They kept telling me how superior their compressor was to GMs and all the while the failures at Chrysler were piling up. Never had a compressor failure in any of the high mileage GM cars. Spent 2yrs of my employment life with a Japanese company back in 82/83 as VP Sales; sure didn't impress me with work ethics or their voodoo of quality..
Many months I alluded to the mismangement of GM by Roger Smith and his bean counting successors. Oldsmobile and the Intrigue will be killed off while lesser cars survive because others like the Nissan Maxima benefited from competent if not superior marketing. Oldsmobile had the product they simply did not goet the word out. JGRIFF If you have read my posts you know that I was fortunate enough to get a loaded 2000 GLS Intrigue after all rebates and discounts for $16,400. List was over $28K. Barring a major accident I will be driving my Intrigue long after you and the Acura have parted company. I will take the $10k I saved (in comparison to your purchase price) and invest it. By my retirement the difference will be a net $40k plus, which should go a long way towards the purchase of my next car. B4z thanks for all of the technical info you have shared; I really appreciate your posts. No doubt there will be a set of Baer rotors in my future. 1415 the Alberta clipper certainly killed the golf season in the midwest. Keep those 845's well grooved. The demise of Oldsmobile does not change my plans. I love my Intrigue. The drive train is as good as it gets. I have had zero problems. I intend to drive my Intrigue to 200k plus.
I'm not really sure why jgriff is still hanging around here. My best guess now is just kick all the people who love their Oldsmobiles when we are down. How low can you go to get your kicks dude?
Whats up with this new format? I had to go through all the messages from the beginning of the thread. And I posted 2 messaged last night that I do not see. And there was nothing about politics in them either.
According to edmunds many of our posts have been deleted. Cannot decide if the new format is easier to read or not. It appears to be a little more user friendly.
I think the Ivory Tower lads from Detroit don't like the last 100 posts. Therefore, GM bought Edmunds and is now looking back at you from your monitor....... CAREFUL what you think out there!
My father purchased a Intrigue in 1999 to replace his Ford Explorer. It has been a very trouble free car. It is very sad to hear that Oldsmobile is going to die after the 2004 model year as it was when the Plymouth name died and will be when the Mercury name dies next (just watch). I think that these foreign cars like Toyota and Nissan are popular because people are sheep!! Are these Japanese cars really so great? If so, then why is it I see Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans , and the like at over say 6 years blowing grey smoke. Same for those Chrysler minivans with the Mitsubishi engines. Funny, my 1987 Buick Century still does not smoke even with 121000 miles on it.
The General cares, really cares about us. Here is their response to me.
"... Thank you for contacting the Oldsmobile Interned Response Center.
Please be assured that Oldsmobile and General Motors are very sensitive to your concerns regarding the decision to phase out the Oldsmobile Division.
Here is some information to answer your question:
Oldsmobile's current model lineup will continue to be produced and sold until the end of their current product life cycles or as long as they remain economically viable.
CM will work pro actively with its dealers to ensure a smooth and orderly transition, and to ensure that Oldsmobile customers continue to receive quality service and parts. All warranties will continue to be honored by Oldsmobile and General Motors.
Service will be available at other General Motors dealerships. Our dealership technicians have extensive training on GM products and service information is readily available to satisfy all service needs.
We will continue to provide quality service and parts. Like all vehicles, the resale value of Oldsmobile will be dependent on many factors including, consumer demand and market conditions.
Should you have further questions or need assistance, we encourage you to contact the special Oldsmobile Assistance Center at 1-866-306-6030.
Sincerely,
Robert Roe Customer Relationship Manager GM Internet Response Center........"
I suggest that you use the number. I called and they started asking questions about mileage. Does GM plan to do more than just pony up $1000 to us for another GM product? Don't know, but if they receive a lot of excitable customers they may want to head off the bad PR they will be getting.
Harlanc, Can you give us the names of the suppliers who contributed parts to the OSV? Epecially the ducktail spoiler and the wheel manufacturer. Does the aftermarket sell the supercharger kit for the earlier OSV? What about the people who leased, do we get the bonus also?
one2one.... CM really knows how to handle' their customers, don't they?
It is not a wise thing that the morons in Detroit have done. What are they thinking up there?
1. Let's drop a few billion into a new company and call it Saturn. 2. The other divisions could have used an infusion of cash like that but, I am Roger Smith and I am all wise and all powerful. 3. Let us also get a shotgun and approach the market with two chambers loaded, pull both triggers and hope we hit something even close to the target. 4. When we actually hit the target (Intrigue/Old) we'll hope that word of mouth will move product for us. Our master plan is to make sure that the only customers that want to know about it will be the only customers that want to know about it. 5. We will sneak up on Toyota/Honda with our marketing acumen and they will be sorely afraid and shall wither and die. 6. We are CM and the ghost of Roger Smith still walks the halls and directs our marketing.
The General ain't no General any more. 2nd Lieutenant, maybe, but this isn't a flag officer running the troops.
Any leasee or owner will get the rebate of $1500 for Olds or $1000 for any other GM product. This will create a situation where a customer could steal a new Oldsmobile but I think most car buyers will miss out because of all the advice that edmunds will dispense concerning the situation. If a customer is worried about trade-in value than lease an Oldsmobile.
It doesn't appear that you can go to a particular message... or see more than 20 messages at a time, or see all the messages after a particular number, or see all the messages at once, which would alllow for easy archiving or reviewing while away from the internet connection.
Anyone else think even though the fonts are bigger, the new format is harder on the eyes?
Anyway, I just got back from a dealership with a friend, she has a 97 Saab 900 turbo and is looking at the CL-S. Having a Acura dealer connection, I was able to get her a deal for a used '01 with 12K for $36500cdn ($500 over what the dealer gave in trade-in value). Took it out for a spin (couldn't do too much with the border line rain/snow falling right now) and it is a pretty good deal for that price.. New for $43cdn I wouldn't do though.
My dealer friend offered my a used 00TL for $28000cdn (same $500 over trade-in) with 20K on it. I'm keeping my Intrigue.
I'm not concerned about service or parts after Olds is gone as other GM divisions will be able to service them with no problem. I'm sure GM means well when they say they will "accomodate" Olds customers, but how do you accomodate someone when they liked the cars which were dropped? As I've said many times, I like the clean sophisticated looks of Oldsmobiles over the plastic clad Pontiacs and overly conservative Buicks and Chevrolets. I guess I could be happy with a Regal, but I like the Intrigue better. I could handle a Bonneville, but I liked the Aurora's much classier lines and interior better. And there is no doubt I'd take an Alero over a Grand Am. This is the problem I have with the decision because I think that behind Cadillac, Olds is GM's most progressive brand and had the most potential to attract non-GM customers. Buick and Pontiac will keep the faithful, but I don't see them attracting new customers, especially those who typicall prefer imports. This leaves Chevrolet, maybe GM will focus on improving the styling and especially the interiors on their cars.
The alternatives in GM's stable are not that attractive to me. I chose the Olds because I liked the Intrigue and I was on the verge of getting a Maxima.
Maybe they'll let me use the $1500 to get a Nissan; yeah, right.
I can't go to a particular car anymore. For instance I used to be able to type in "impala" and go straight to the impala site. Now if i want to come here to the intrigue site i have to go to sedans first, then to intrigue.
etharmon: I agree with your assessment completely. I attempted a post on almost exactly the same lines earlier today in fact. We'll see what happens with GM's mid-lux platform in the coming years. I sure won't be replacing my Intrigue with another GM product in the current line up though.
Then again, I COULD use that $1,000 "Olds Cares" certificate to purchase that $38,000 Yukon Denali I've always wanted.
I was watching Motor Week on PHS this afternoon and they wrapped up their long term test of the Aurora (which they loved and had not problems with). At the end of the report the guy mentions Oldsmobile's other stable mates the Aero and the Intrepid. Ay that's right... THE INTREPID! Oldsmobile tried so hard to hide the name when it released Intrigue, and now auto journalists 3 years later still don't know about it!!!!!!! How was the public ever going to find this car?
Hi -I sell New Olds products. They told us today that the warranty will now be 5 years / or / 60,000 miles Zero Deductible. Also The rebates (Here in Pa.) will be Large. Anyone who got a new Olds (1996 & newer) & still has it will also get a "Loyalty" Certificate of 1500.$ (on top of any rebates). Feel free to e-mail me or check my profile.My work # is Woody @ 800 450 2650 Or DRTWJ@aol.com It really is a Great time to get ANY New Olds (2000, or 2001)!
Okay, what's next. I drive Oldsmobiles (by the way, age 35) they go under. I use Macintoshes, distinctly in the minority here. Really like the microbrews, but most of the local distilleries have gone under... ; )
Anyway, new forum really hard on eyes, font size definitely not right for the Mac.
Has GM fired the clowns that blew 3 billion dollars and managed to put Olds out of business? Three of GM's best looking cars our put out by Olds, yet they can't even sell 300,000 this year!
As far as advertising goes, when I bought my Intrigue this summer, I stumbled on the .09% financing. Olds didn't advertise this great deal. If they were interested in moving cars it would have taken advertising!!!!! If nobody knows about it, nobody buys---which is exactly what happened.
Probably some $300,000 executive at this moment is writing a memo saying we did all we could...
Not happy with the General or as was stated earlier the Second lieutenant Motor Corporation.
Maybe GM will advertise even less now as it obviously didn't sell cars as evidenced by Olds. (when is the last time you saw a GM commercial? Compare it to Dodge or Toyota which advertise all the time)
Spell checker respells your words, read carefully. Bookmarks don't work, you have to start in Sedans. Wed afternoon to Fri posts deleted - old bookmarks will still find them if you don't login.
I was just flipping though the revised 2001 Aurora brochure when something hit me like a brick:
Doesn't it seem strange that GM advertised the new L-Series as if IT was going out of style and spent God knows how much to tell the public that they spent a billion dollars building a new factory (as if the public really needed to know that)?
It appears that GM's real focus is in building the Saturn division. They claimed that Olds was to be the import fighting division but from their actions, GM has made it crystal clear what their real intention is. I don't believe they ever really wanted to revive Olds. If they did, why didn't they put the same effort into telling the public about the new Olds lineup like they did for the very few cars Saturn sells? They probably have been planning this for years. On this site we've said things like GM will try to starve Olds out of existance. I believe that GM has been starving Olds since 94 and that everything is right on schedule as far as the suits in GM are concerned.
I posted the above message twice before it took. The first time I posted it I was sent back to the TownHall home page. Fortunately I expected it and copied my post before submitting it.
Hey Edmunds, get it right before making a site live. That's what a staging site is for!
Let's look at it. GM is saying that it's closing Olds is because sales is slow. If Olds sales pick up as a result of increasing the warranty, free oil changes and the other things they plan on doing to keep customers (all things my wife said 3 years ago they should have been doing since they made it clear they were targeting imports), will GM about face and keep Olds (and keep doing the things that picked up sales) as a divisioin?
I know the answer is NO because GM isn't going to advertise any of the things they claim they want to implement. Why should they? If they did, it would show Wagoner and is henchmen to be the fools they are. And by not advertising anymore than Olds has already done, it effectively seals the fate of the Old-est car company in America.
Just finished watching CBS Sunday Morning. According to the article, GM has cut Olds phaseout time down to 2 years. 5 to 3 to 2? After I buy my 2002 GLS I think I'm not ever coming back to GM because of their intense stupidity. They'll have to make a major turnaround (from a corporate philosophy standpoint) before I buy another car from them. Too bad; I'm an import convert and I'm sure many other are as well. Not only has GM lost us, they're abandoned any chance of getting us back again.
I was hoping that when my lease is up in March 2002 I was going to be able to buy my intrigue for about $7000 instead of the $13,000 that is in the contract. If olds extends the warranty to 5 years like somebody mentioned, it will prop up the resale value. Which is its intended purpose. GM is not as dumb as we think they are. This will probably stave off lawsuits also.
If Saturn is to take the place of Oldsmobile as the sole import fighter, it had better pick up some hardware from Oldsmoibile quick! While the LS is a pretty good car, it's no Intrigue in terms of refinement. Saturn does have a great SUV coming, but they really need a couple of new larger car models or many (if not most) new Oldsmobile customers will migrate to foreign nameplates. I will include myself in that group though I do prefer domestics if I can find one. I really hope someone from GM's brass reads through here cause they may loose me after Olds is gone!
I lost two yesterday. I sent a message to the Edmund's Town Hall "fix it" people, but the return e-mail address in my profile is my work address so I won't see an answer until tomorrow. One2One mentioned copying his message before posting it. I'll try that this time around. (NOTE: I did, and a good thing too. I got bounced out again without posting.)
Now for conspiracy theories -- Several months ago at least two of us raised the issue of GM folding Olds into Saturn. I still think GM is going to upgrade the Saturn Division and make it the primary import fighter now that Olds is going away. I would not at all be surprised if the Olds concept vehicles of the last two years (Profile and O4) end up in the Saturn stable. The need will be even more pressing if the LS restyling (which, I understand, is now on a much faster track) is a failure. From what I've read, I'd have no trouble moving to a Profile based sedan when my time with the Intrigue is up in 2-3 years.
You have to wonder what the brass at GM were thinking when they introduced the Aurora. It was clearly a break from the past. Selling it with 98s, 88s, Cutlasses and Achievas wasn't the best way to get the story out about the new Olds. And yet the car still built an extremely loyal following. The phase out of Olds should really have begun then, with a gradual introduction of a new upscale line up under the Aurora brand name (as someone else has suggested). Given time, this "Aurora Division" would have built a following without the Oldsmobile baggage.
Ultimately, the phasing out of Oldsmobile is only one step in the necessary restructuring of GM. If Olds couldn't attract enough customers with its much improved new line up, what is Buick going to do in a few years when its consumer base starts to go away? I don't know too many aging baby boomers who get all misty eyed over a Buick LeSabre. The Rendezvous is interesting, and certainly looks much better than an Aztek, but why is it being introduced with the 3.4 litre v6? It is supposed to compete with crossover vehicles from Acura and Lexus. An SUV built on the GM minivan platform with an underpowered and ancient engine isn't going to attract that many sophisticated buyers.
I know that Wagoner and co. are taking a lot of heat for killing Olds at this point. I'm not so sure they deserve it. GM's mistakes with Olds were made in the post-Roger Smith era. If any thing, GM is acting rationally now by reducing its product offerings. The choice of Olds also makes sense in the short run when you track its sales numbers against Buick's. But Buick is not going to survive with its current line up. I could see a North American GM in 10 years consisting of Cadillac, Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn and GMC.
A final note. Today I found myself driving inexorably over to the local VW dealer. I feel so ashamed.
I have had problems with my posts long before the format change. It appears that i am being timed out before i complete my post. I thought it was a problem with my settings (which are set at 30 minutes), but it appears to be an edmund's problem. This is why you never see long posts from me.
If this is progress, it has me fooled. Even if the bugs were worked out, the old system was easier to read and had better useability. If they have "stickyness" measurements for how long people use the site and number of return visitors, I betcha those numbers will go down. The search function seems to return a bunch of useless message threads.
I now copy my message before attempting to post it.
Comments
I paid 27 for my Acura CL it is many times, a better car than my Intrigue was, after just 5 short months & 5k miles. Service has been great, plus loaner car, 48/50k versus 36/36, plus the only service has been an oil change [switched to Mobil-1].
I would appreciate if you would try to figure out how America got to where it is at today and give up praising the Buddha..Try to picture where our society will be 25 yrs from now if everybody adopted your attitude. When Algore gives his bitter pill speech tonight please don't feel let down...Don't listen to CNN and MSNBC too long for it will totally mess up your mind...
2 years ago we replaced the motor and regulator in my sister's accord. It cost almost $500 for that repair. You won't find any american car that has parts that cost that much.
If you want to start talking about alternators, water pumps and starters we can do that too.
I haven't even talked about the proverbial timing belt replacement that the intrigue doesn't need.
How's the premium gas working out?
What happened to Olds is just the result. After one hundred years, GM still hasn't got it, that was the reason.
Stop denying the fact that Toyota or BMW does make better cars, We need to get up, NOW.
Asian cars don't cut the grade--Toyota is worse than Honda..
bz4::::::Right on with slow burn about those fragile Acuras. The Asian cars are the most sought after by the thieves due to the high cost of replacement parts...Back to Fla on Fri until 1/04/01...Sold the condo; now I have to buy somewhere and something quick...Snowing again in the Motor City; another couple inches. How's the pocket rocket???
Speaking about Asian parts; I spent about six months calling on an Asian owned supplier of a/c
compressors to the transplants and Chrysler. They kept telling me how superior their compressor was to GMs and all the while the failures at Chrysler were piling up. Never had a compressor failure in any of the high mileage GM cars. Spent 2yrs of my employment life with a Japanese company back in 82/83 as VP Sales; sure didn't impress me with work ethics or their voodoo of quality..
Good night everyone!
"... Thank you for contacting the Oldsmobile Interned Response Center.
Please be assured that Oldsmobile and General Motors are very sensitive to your concerns regarding
the decision to phase out the Oldsmobile Division.
Here is some information to answer your question:
Oldsmobile's current model lineup will continue to be produced and sold until the end of their
current product life cycles or as long as they remain economically viable.
CM will work pro actively with its dealers to ensure a smooth and orderly transition, and to ensure
that Oldsmobile customers continue to receive quality service and parts. All warranties will
continue to be honored by Oldsmobile and General Motors.
Service will be available at other General Motors dealerships. Our dealership technicians have
extensive training on GM products and
service information is readily available to satisfy all service needs.
We will continue to provide quality service and parts. Like all vehicles, the resale value of
Oldsmobile will be dependent on many factors including, consumer demand and market conditions.
Should you have further questions or need assistance, we encourage you to contact the special
Oldsmobile Assistance Center at 1-866-306-6030.
Sincerely,
Robert Roe
Customer Relationship Manager
GM Internet Response Center........"
I suggest that you use the number. I called and they started asking questions about mileage. Does GM plan to do more than just pony up $1000 to us for another GM product? Don't know, but if they receive a lot of excitable customers they may want to head off the bad PR they will be getting.
Since the OSV Intrigue isn't going to happen now (unfortunately), can you give us any specifics on what the OSV Intrigue package would have included?
What about the people who leased, do we get the bonus also?
It is not a wise thing that the morons in Detroit have done. What are they thinking up there?
1. Let's drop a few billion into a new company and call it Saturn.
2. The other divisions could have used an infusion of cash like that but, I am Roger Smith and I am all wise and all powerful.
3. Let us also get a shotgun and approach the market with two chambers loaded, pull both triggers and hope we hit something even close to the target.
4. When we actually hit the target (Intrigue/Old) we'll hope that word of mouth will move product for us. Our master plan is to make sure that the only customers that want to know about it will be the only customers that want to know about it.
5. We will sneak up on Toyota/Honda with our marketing acumen and they will be sorely afraid and shall wither and die.
6. We are CM and the ghost of Roger Smith still walks the halls and directs our marketing.
The General ain't no General any more. 2nd Lieutenant, maybe, but this isn't a flag officer running the troops.
or see more than 20 messages at a time,
or see all the messages after a particular number,
or see all the messages at once, which would alllow for easy archiving or reviewing while away from the internet connection.
Anyway, I just got back from a dealership with a friend, she has a 97 Saab 900 turbo and is looking at the CL-S. Having a Acura dealer connection, I was able to get her a deal for a used '01 with 12K for $36500cdn ($500 over what the dealer gave in trade-in value). Took it out for a spin (couldn't do too much with the border line rain/snow falling right now) and it is a pretty good deal for that price.. New for $43cdn I wouldn't do though.
My dealer friend offered my a used 00TL for $28000cdn (same $500 over trade-in) with 20K on it. I'm keeping my Intrigue.
The alternatives in GM's stable are not that attractive to me. I chose the Olds because I liked the Intrigue and I was on the verge of getting a Maxima.
Maybe they'll let me use the $1500 to get a Nissan; yeah, right.
Then again, I COULD use that $1,000 "Olds Cares" certificate to purchase that $38,000 Yukon Denali I've always wanted.
dwg
All I can say is POOR MARKETING OLDSMOBILE!
p.. I do not like this new format edmunds.
The new speller screwed it up.
Feel free to e-mail me or check my profile.My work # is Woody @ 800 450 2650
Or DRTWJ@aol.com
It really is a Great time to get ANY New Olds (2000, or 2001)!
; )
Anyway, new forum really hard on eyes, font size definitely not right for the Mac.
Has GM fired the clowns that blew 3 billion dollars and managed to put Olds out of business? Three of GM's best looking cars our put out by Olds, yet they can't even sell 300,000 this year!
As far as advertising goes, when I bought my Intrigue this summer, I stumbled on the .09% financing. Olds didn't advertise this great deal. If they were interested in moving cars it would have taken advertising!!!!! If nobody knows about it, nobody buys---which is exactly what happened.
Probably some $300,000 executive at this moment is writing a memo saying we did all we could...
Not happy with the General or as was stated earlier the Second lieutenant Motor Corporation.
Maybe GM will advertise even less now as it obviously didn't sell cars as evidenced by Olds. (when is the last time you saw a GM commercial? Compare it to Dodge or Toyota which advertise all the time)
LOL
Bryan
Bookmarks don't work, you have to start in Sedans.
Wed afternoon to Fri posts deleted - old bookmarks will still find them if you don't login.
But this place is still better than Usenet.
Doesn't it seem strange that GM advertised the new L-Series as if IT was going out of style and spent God knows how much to tell the public that they spent a billion dollars building a new factory (as if the public really needed to know that)?
It appears that GM's real focus is in building the Saturn division. They claimed that Olds was to be the import fighting division but from their actions, GM has made it crystal clear what their real intention is. I don't believe they ever really wanted to revive Olds. If they did, why didn't they put the same effort into telling the public about the new Olds lineup like they did for the very few cars Saturn sells? They probably have been planning this for years. On this site we've said things like GM will try to starve Olds out of existance. I believe that GM has been starving Olds since 94 and that everything is right on schedule as far as the suits in GM are concerned.
Flames welcome...please.
Hey Edmunds, get it right before making a site live. That's what a staging site is for!
I know the answer is NO because GM isn't going to advertise any of the things they claim they want to implement. Why should they? If they did, it would show Wagoner and is henchmen to be the fools they are. And by not advertising anymore than Olds has already done, it effectively seals the fate of the Old-est car company in America.
Just finished watching CBS Sunday Morning. According to the article, GM has cut Olds phaseout time down to 2 years. 5 to 3 to 2? After I buy my 2002 GLS I think I'm not ever coming back to GM because of their intense stupidity. They'll have to make a major turnaround (from a corporate philosophy standpoint) before I buy another car from them. Too bad; I'm an import convert and I'm sure many other are as well. Not only has GM lost us, they're abandoned any chance of getting us back again.
Now for conspiracy theories -- Several months ago at least two of us raised the issue of GM folding Olds into Saturn. I still think GM is going to upgrade the Saturn Division and make it the primary import fighter now that Olds is going away. I would not at all be surprised if the Olds concept vehicles of the last two years (Profile and O4) end up in the Saturn stable. The need will be even more pressing if the LS restyling (which, I understand, is now on a much faster track) is a failure. From what I've read, I'd have no trouble moving to a Profile based sedan when my time with the Intrigue is up in 2-3 years.
You have to wonder what the brass at GM were thinking when they introduced the Aurora. It was clearly a break from the past. Selling it with 98s, 88s, Cutlasses and Achievas wasn't the best way to get the story out about the new Olds. And yet the car still built an extremely loyal following. The phase out of Olds should really have begun then, with a gradual introduction of a new upscale line up under the Aurora brand name (as someone else has suggested). Given time, this "Aurora Division" would have built a following without the Oldsmobile baggage.
Ultimately, the phasing out of Oldsmobile is only one step in the necessary restructuring of GM. If Olds couldn't attract enough customers with its much improved new line up, what is Buick going to do in a few years when its consumer base starts to go away? I don't know too many aging baby boomers who get all misty eyed over a Buick LeSabre. The Rendezvous is interesting, and certainly looks much better than an Aztek, but why is it being introduced with the 3.4 litre v6? It is supposed to compete with crossover vehicles from Acura and Lexus. An SUV built on the GM minivan platform with an underpowered and ancient engine isn't going to attract that many sophisticated buyers.
I know that Wagoner and co. are taking a lot of heat for killing Olds at this point. I'm not so sure they deserve it. GM's mistakes with Olds were made in the post-Roger Smith era. If any thing, GM is acting rationally now by reducing its product offerings. The choice of Olds also makes sense in the short run when you track its sales numbers against Buick's. But Buick is not going to survive with its current line up. I could see a North American GM in 10 years consisting of Cadillac, Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn and GMC.
A final note. Today I found myself driving inexorably over to the local VW dealer. I feel so ashamed.
dwg
I now copy my message before attempting to post it.