Well, at least I'm pleased with the US Supreme Court ruling, but this decision by Olds was a BAD MOVE. If anyone from Olds or GM is reading this board(doubtfully) pay really close attention to the last 100 or so posts. It's the marketing stupid!! As I said before, Olds has not been marketing these cars properly or in some cases, they haven't marketed them at all. Oldsmobile's overall customer age was way down and the income level of their buyers was up. So what does GM do, dump the division. That is a major mistake. So where are the younger customers going to go? Certainly not to Buick unless they do a major change to their cars, some to Pontiac and Chevrolet, but not alot. My advice to GM would be to give the Aurora to Buick to replace the aging Park Avenue and give the Bravada either to Cadillac or Buick. The Alero would fit perfectly in the Chevrolet line. That leaves the Intrigue. I'd say put restyle the Regal's interior with a design similar to the Intrigue's and put the 3.5 liter V6 in it. I am a bit shocked at this move and I'm actually a bit disappointed with GM. They have again turned their backs on valuable customers. Case in point, I'm 26 year old and more than likely will buy alot of cars in my lifetime. I'm already on my second Olds and would certainly be considering another. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this is how you build a customer base. Now, the division has been dropped and while I might still consider one next year since the deals will probably be done, where will I go after that? Possibly a Buick Regal GS or Pontiac Grand Prix, but I like the looks of the Intrigue the best. Someone who is not as loyal to GM as I am(and thats starting to fade now) would probably look at other marques. Oh well, enough rambling from me. To other Intrigue(and Olds) owners, lets keep the conversations going and not let this get everyone down too much. It is a sad day, but at least they got this far. Imagine if they had dropped Olds back in the early 90s when the notion first came up.
The ad agency that was foisted on Olds should be shot. Better yet, the doofus that continued to use this ad agency should stand right in the middle of the above mentioned agency and catch the first volley of rounds. Mr. Wagoner, per chance?
How on earth GM could squander the resources poured into the 3.5 engine, the design of the Intrigue and the still-born OSV is beyond understanding. As has been mentioned in numerous postings, Ford sells the Taurus and Olds can't figure out how to get a handle on the Intrigue.
I talked to a friend of mine at GM in Michigan today and he echoed many of the same sentiments that have been posted here. Lousy advertising throughout the General's product and poor understanding of what motivates buyers.
Does anyone remember when motor-heads actually built cars and there wasn't a collection of bean counters and focus groups that determined what we'd like? Remember the original 4-4-2? I drove a '67 for quite a while and that thing hauled. I really believed Olds was going to get a hold of the brass ring with the direction they were heading. Someone here mentioned that the suits at Olds should have taken a look at this message board a long time ago and paid just a little bit of attention to it.
The upside of today is that the Supremes made 5-4 decision and the downside is that GM made a first-class bone head decision.
I guess I'll have to try to ignore the dejected looks at stoplights when folks see me in my orphanmobile...thanks god my early 2000 model has the oldsmobile script so small to be nearly unreadable, unlike later models...
but having CNN show the Intrigue only, when telling today's tale, doesn't help! I am the "local" car guy here at work and elsewhere, and provide lots of car/industry info to folks, so having an Olds certainly won't help my credibility. No flames please, I bought the car as it was/is one of the best in class, and is recognized as such by experts, but Olds dropped the ball in properly targeting this car. I am hanging onto mine, not because I have to, but because I want to.
Looks like Maxima won the battle--sure wasn't any financial success though; for the French Govt had to bail out Nissan but they sure didn't drop the car line...instead came up with probably some of greatest commercials in recent years. They sell performance; and somehow the Asian guys manage to stay out of court on liability issues where the domestics get nailed..
Well GM is probably satisfied that the AARPS have converged on Buick and sucking up the Impala. Can't argue; for its reliable transportation..
Going back in time::::::my good teenager friend's father bought a new 1949 Olds 88 powered by the Rocket V-8 teamed to the Hydra-matic trans and this car back in 49 was a screamer--big time performer and creamed virtually everything in sight. Flathead V-8s and the 6 cylinder offerings in that era couldn't hold a candle to the Rocket 88.
My favorite dealership didn't open yesterday because of snow, some 16" of it; however today I will have a little talk with the big guy...
dindak::::::the Bluewater bridge was closed most of yesterday. I cancelled my 400 mile trip today to mid-Ohio due to another rain, sleet ,and snow front coming thru Ohio & Mich around noon. We will just keep the Intrigue warm and cozy in the garage...Sure don't want anything to happen to it for my insurance company would probably tell me its worthless.
I will call the "help line" shown on one of the posting to see how they plan to "ease the pain and share the grief". Maybe GM will hire Algore to smooth over the loss of this great automotive nameplate.
grbeck RE: Buick. Sorry dude, I don't mean it literally. I'm just dismayed that GM would kill Oldsmobile before Buick. I guess the overall sales figures made that decision.
A note for recent Canadian Oldsmobile owners. You will likely be getting a C$2000 credit from GM in the mail. I will call GM and confirm. It helps, but if GM doesn't give me something decent to buy it's worthless. As much as I like the Impala/ Regal, I would chose a Maxima first.
Someone mentioned they didn't think Olds would last as long as it's product cycle. I probably agree. In a year or two, all that will probably be left is Alero, Aurora and Bravada.
1415: Apparently more snow on the way tomorrow. I think I am going out to look for a snow blower at lunch. My back is killing me today.
Newspaper said the 2002 bravada will be the last new oldsmobile. Its hard to believe that it will take olds 5 years to phase out. I am betting it will be gone by the end of 2002, with no 2003 models.
Haven't heard from you during this debacle. I guess this news narrows your next purchase down to Chrysler. With the loss of olds i have no idea what i will buy next.
bz4: Since the 2001 is basically the same as the late 2000 models, I can say to you the car is great. No rattles/ problems at all other than a faulty trunk release.
I don't think buying an Oldsmobile means you are buying an "orphan". The cars will have parts available for years and years to come. Further, Oldsmobile will still be around for 3 years at least, and it's not like no one has heard of the name. If I am able to, I will gladly buy another before the end.
GM usually keeps part on hand for 10 years. So parts should not be a problem. Plus there is always the salvage option. i can't see anybody having problems getting the necessary parts for about 20-25 years.
At least let's give GM credit for great P.R. management. Will all the news going on yesterday -- storms and of course the election -- the Olds story played very small, even on local Detroit TV!
I had pretty much decided on getting a Grand Prix. But after driving one as a rental car last week I was strongly reconsidering getting another Intrigue instead. The ergonomics of the GP don't touch our car's...they put the cruise, wiper and washer all on the left hand stalk, which was very awkward to use. When I got back into my Intrigue it just felt so RIGHT!
Well, I just talked to the local Olds service Dept. about the headlight flicker problem. He said they have tried putting alternators, batteries, ect in with no success. He recommended that I keep in touch with him on this issue.
Then I made the joke "well, they aren't gonna shut down the company over this are they". He just laughed. I also asked him when they would stop making the Intrigue. He said 2 years. Enjoy (or if you are loathe, if you wish) them while you can.
Well, I'm not a bottom line guy anyway. I purchased my used '99 GX in fall after an exhaustive sedan search. The combination of price, style, performance (Hoo-yeah!), handling, and materials were unmatched. This car beat everything else I drove, hands down. I should say that I'm 32 and a car-guy through-and-through, so I appreciated the engineering of the 3.5, but actually driving the thing was the best. Maxima, Sable LS, Intrepid, and 626 didn't come close. Camry and Honda were way to common and pricey. As I blissfully drove my "new" car, I couldn't help but think that they were seriously missing the mark on this car marketing wise. The only ads I saw for olds were featuring the Alero, a car who's greatest competitor is it's stablemate Grand Am. Where were the ads touting the engine and performance of this thing? History will write the last chapter of this nameplate, and I think that it will be very kind to the actual product which is second to none in class. Hopefully the marketing nitwits who fiddled away the marketshare will be known as the ones to blame. Well, I'll be proud to drive this car for years to come, regardless of the "loser" image I guess it will start to convey. Image means very little when I hear the sweet music of that little 3.5.
Talked to my fellow this AM and they were shut down yesterday due to snow but they were not aware of the Olds decision to quit..Complete surprise to them.
"Additional rebates" came out this morning on all the Olds models-$1000/Aurora$500/Intrigue and the others were $500.
Some of these dealers are going to collect big time from Generous Motors...
mixed feelings--as a very satisfied owner of a 99 intrigue, i think olds makes the best gm products. that said GM simply has too many products and divisions, with too many cars that are woefully out of date--i.e. cavilier, all of the minvans, or thouroughly mediocre--grand am, century etc. . . i agree that buick is next. i just wish that olds had been shut down 5 years ago and that the resources spent on it were spent on saturn. the intrigue would have made a solid mid-size saturn and the alero could have replaced the the base models.
my next car will likely be my first "foreign car". had it not been for the intrigue i would currently be drivign a camry.
As for going to other GM brands, does anyone anybody know of a person actually enjoying a Chevrolet sedan? Are Buicks still made? Can anyone justify the price of a Bonneville? They should have changed the whole division name to Aurora when they had the chance.
It’s sad, but yet so typical of GM, that they would kill off their best line of cars in favor of stodgy, old Buick and tacky, over-styled Pontiac. It just doesn’t bode well for the long-term future of GM that they failed to successfully market the Oldsmobile line to their intended demographic – younger, higher educated, “upscale” and “import” buyers. Unfortunately, the majority of Buick and Cadillac buyers will buy their last new car in the next 10 years and, if current trends continue unchanged, these brands may then die a natural death along with their owner base in the next 10 or 20 years.
Interesting article on auto.com. It said that saturn sells the same amount of cars as olds. Wouldn't it have been better to merge both divisions together and call it aurora?
It's funny, GM botched the marketing of Oldsmobile and have now botched the demise by announcing it's death before it releases Bravada (which is a go by the way). You don't announce a phase out just before you release an all new vehicle. How stupid is this Wagner guy anyway?
What he should have done is cut Buick and Oldsmobile models down to 2-3 each and keep the names and spirit of each alive. Buick is next, I see it in the cards. I also see Chevrolet/ Pontiac going a bit upscale.
Chevy has announced it's next generation small cars will have boosted quality and upscale models. Perhaps if they can do this to other new models, I will go that route for the next car/ truck. If they don't, I off to the see my Nissan dealer. Current Chevy/ Pontiac models leave a lot of luxury/ quality feel to be desired.
For what its worth, I have been reading every posting and I have also been working on the 2002 Intrigue interior upgrades. The announcement yesterday was a shock to me and was not expected. I am gratified that many of you on this forum do appreciate the Intrigue - the best mid-size car GM has ever built.
I feel with you for Olds Intrigue. But the GM mismanagement is not a reason to tar other cars.
My wife and I are enjoying our 98 Chevy Malibu, especially after replacing its tires. A great car for city and suburbs, and for shorter trips on highways. Mostly for 30-70 mile trips, but fine up to 150 miles or so in one direction.
The Malibu is very nimble and comfortable enough. Even while we have a base car, with few options but the 3.1l V-6 engine. It is bit underpowered with its 150-155 hp, but the later models got extra 20 hp.
Practically all 2000 Imapala LS and Monte-Carlo SS are enjoying them. Much less complaints than concerning Intrigue. You may check for yourself:
Concerning Buick: it is alive and going well. We bought one a couple months ago. And are enjoying it even more than the Malibu. Great power, very comfortable inside, and right appearance.
I think its sad that GM is killing off Oldsmobile. It was getting to the point that the Olds was the only decent looking mid-price GM car out there. The Buicks just look too "retiree" to me...heck, my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, with its wire wheels and vinyl roof, looks hipper than just about any LeSabre in recent memory. And Pontiac's idea of style it to slap alot of plastic on its cars and call it a day.
I had an Alero for a rental car last year...nice little car. It had a 4 cyl, but was pretty peppy and seemed really well-built. I'd take one over a Grand Am in a heartbeat. I also like the Intrigue...tasteful without drawing too much attention to itself. I also like the first Aurora, and might consider getting one when the prices come down. The new one looks too much like a Hyundai from the back.
Most of my cars have been Chrysler, but I've had my share of GM cars. My only Olds was a used 1982 Cutlass Supreme. It was a piece of junk, but I loved it. The tranny went out at about 62,000 miles, and the Buick 231 croaked around 73K. If it had the Olds 307, I'd probably still be driving it! But it was a smooth, roomy, comfortable car, and a good looker, with its slicked back grille and color-keyed sport rims.
Anyway, I guess If I give up on Mopar and come home to General Mommy, I'll have to settle for a stodge-mobile or a clapped-out boy racer. Or a Biscayne (er, I mean, Impala)
Didn't mean to slash and burn, just bitter I guess. This is the third Olds I've owned, and I've always appreciated the understated-yet sophisticated style that Olds delivers. When Olds came out with Aurora, I cheered. When it came out with the rest of the restyled line, I lauded and vowed to return to the showroom, and I did. I thought Olds had turned it around and was something of an example of how style and power could come in American sheetmetal. This announcement just hit me the wrong way. It's as if the division was the whipping boy for a bad sales year that was industry-wide. I know profitability was nowhere near happening for some time, but what did they expect, they were trying to shift their market and expected to do that in less than three years (not going all the way back to Aurora's intro....there was a lot of old stuff in the showroom then). What is offered elsewhere in GMs divisions does nothing for me. I don't know where I'll go next, but as long as my GX goes, that won't be an issue
harlanc::: prior to purchasing the Intrigue my wife and I had sworn off American cars. In fact, we vowed never to buy another one again and joined the "Cult of the Japanese Car Buyer". But after we got the Intrigue and were so taken by it's styling and performance we didn't want anything else. The first vehicle on our test drive list for a replacement car was an Olds--from the Intrigue to Bravada. We even recommend the Alero to folks in the small car segment. My wife still doesn't want to look at other cars and is pressing me to get another Intrigue before they're gone.
There's also a kind of bonding between Olds owners. A new family moved on my street and we just bonded from the simple fact that he owns an Alero and I have an Intrigue. Not to mention this forum.
For the record, my Intrigue has over 65k miles. No squeaks, no rattles (don't know what Edmunds did to it's car to have the so-called interior noise) suspension still tight as a drum, tranny smooth as greased silk, engine a whisper at idle and quiet while cruising and after 2 years still in love with my machine and still proudly announce that I own an OLDSMOBILE INTRIGUE.
Thanks for being probably one of the few folks at GM who actually listened to us owners.
Harlanc, I read what you have said here, and about how you found out about the demise of the nameplate...I do want to genuinely praise you for all your efforts and contact here as well with all of us. I was a died in the wool import buyer almost, and "fell into" the Intrigue by accident on advice from my brother, a CEO at a large auto consulting group in detroit. He was pro import (one of top guys at VWoA years back and Pres. of Sterling for awhile), and he said to chedk this car out. Did, bought and a year later Its had few if any problems and exceed my expectations. I AM the targeted sales customer (import conquest, youngish urban professional), and they did it, but not with marketing, but with product alone. The later requires the former, and that didn't happen.
Wagoneer said thier were to few of us, and yurakm got it right that this is not so. VW does ok targeting us, and at 250k sales per year, Olds had perhaps to many nameplates, but for the targeted audience, its whats out there. THERE ARE more buyers for mediocre cars (in comparison) like the GP et al, who wouldn't know ergonomics and balanced handling if it fell on them. This is why so many more Impala's, GP's and thier ilk are sold.
Best to you and thanks again for keeping the faith. Know that your efforts and that of some of your collegues was not without benefit to many nontheless. -ketch
I, too, was an import intender. After reading all of the articles and test driving the Intrigue NINE times, I took the leap and leased one, and it has been the BEST car (out of 10) that I have EVER had.
People, people, there is simply no replacement for QUALITY, I don’t care how great your design is, most people want their high dollar purchases to stand a reasonable test of time. GM cars don’t exactly have the best track records, therefore word of mouth can be very damaging. I can’t count the number of people that are tired of being on a first name basis with Mr. Goodwrench.
My take on Olds failures, IF IF they had produced virtually flawless Intrigues [w/ 3.51], under-priced it, and with a little marketing,,, “they could have been a contender”. Build it and they will come, Toyota & Honda understand that theory and that why people keep coming back.
GM has too many similar models crossing over different division. Instead of producing a bunch of mediocre models they need to focus on being the best at one type of sedan. For example trucks, they seem to have that down pretty good.
Just this month an EX ’96 Aurora [die-hard domestic buyer] switched over to Acura, so far she is very, very happy. Those of you thinking about a Maxima, be careful Nissan is still on the ropes.
jgriff, ya the 98's and some 99's had problems, and you are correct that word of mouth may have had some affect, but later models, incl. those long term tested by car mags, had no such foibles and so i cannot agree that this alone had much affect on sales. Your arg. that folks say they are turned off by GM and its quality woes, well, i have heard the same for many automakers, esp. DiamlerChrysler among them.
So i say to you "people, people", it was an above average american car (oops used "was" again) and marketing misdirection or lack of same did her and the division in, not word of mouth as proposed.
As for 1415's comment that we are stuck, i guess I do not feel so as parts/service is/will not be an issue as support will be there. resale is the issue, but for one was/still am in this for many more years, so resale was never an issue anyways. Until then, i enjoy the car measurably, even in the new 4 inches of snow we are getting on top of the foot already 8(
I take issue with some of you that claim that buyers of other W-Body cars such as the GP, Regal or Impala, don't know the first thing about quality, ergonomics and handling....nothing could be farther from the truth.
Around this time last year, I was actively involved in my car shopping research as I was about to enf the lease of my '97 Acura 2.5TL. Since I wanted to change the mood a bit, I was aiming at a large domestic GM sedan (I can't stand Ford or DCX products) and the final contender runner ups were the Intrigue and the Impala. For some reason I was more biased towards the Impala but I also took a hard look at the Intrigue since good year end rebates and deals were being offered an the car was pretty much in tune with what I was looking for. When I finally got to test drive the Intrigue I was welcomed by a very responsive and smooth powertrain combo. The car was a loaded GLX, leather, sunroof the works...$2,000 cash rebate, I believe it was a '991/2 model. Not bad. But once I started to closely inspect other areas of the car, my enthusiasm for the Intrigue was cooled off rather quickly. Fit and finish was one area of this car that I found to be both unacceptable and dissapointing...the way the trunk was finished in this $26K "premium" automobile was the equal of a Cavalier. Misaligned door panels, questionable interior assembly quality, etc. NOTHING in the Intrigue made me change my natural bias to the more "Traditional" and more GM looking Impala. The salesman offered to park both an Impala LS and the Intrigue GLX side by side for comparison. Explain to me how the "lowly" Chevrolet looked and felt much better bolt together than the Intrigue?? The Trunk fittings in the Impala belonged in a Cadillac while the ones in the Intrigue belonged in the cavalier. Panel aligment was much more precise in the Impala and the doors closed with a satisfying sound like a bank vault. The interior of the Impala was better finished and more carefully put together than in the Intrigue; however, materials wise both were about the same. From a "Tactile" perspective the Impala felt like a much more durable and substantial car. When lowering or raising windows, the door panels in the Impala didn't breath in like the ones in the Intrigue. Look, I am the ideal Olds customer...under 30 years old, Computer Engineer, great income, solid credit, married, etc. The Intrigue failed to move me away from the "Cheap and Lowly" Chevrolet. At the time I was not aware of all the problems early generation Intrigues had (Brakes, Steering, Front end) but very few items in the Intrigue spelled to me long lasting quality for $3K more over the loaded Impala. Based on this experience I can understand why the Intrigue did not work for Olds. Yes GM and Olds abandoned their products but the Intrigue lacked the substance, reliability and reputation to counter attack its imported targets. Nice car, good content, wonderful mechanics, but the quality and finish wasn't there in numbers and that's why the Intrigue failed on its mission. The Intrigue was a great idea that somehow got screwed up during execution. If these cars had been bolted together right from the beginning, Olds and the Intrigue would have had a secure future in the market as we speak. Word of mouth is the best and most effective form of marketing and even if these cars had prove to be the best thing since sliced bread they would have sold by themselves like hot cakes.... but It did not happen folks. Too many problems in the beginning and these cars quickly caught on a spiral. Yes, the 2000 and 2001 models are much improved, but already too late! First impressions are much more valuable than later revisions.
Owners of the 2000/01 Impala really like their cars because they haven't had the frequency of problems (or not problems at all)like the '98 and '99 Intrigue owners had to endure! The Impala LS is a great handling car, excellent engine power, superb brakes, smooth transmission, responsive handling, fantastic traction control system, excellent safety scores, etc. Before you start ranting against the Impala, GP or Regal, go and drive one and then you comeback and praise/rant all you want. I pass my judgement on the Intrigue because I drove it, felt it, looked at it. A few posters here seem to pass judgement on cars they have never ever driven before...they just go by someone elses opinion. Sometimes selling a car with a high tech V-6, PCS and other gadgets is not enough if quality, value and reputation are put in harmony together, not as separate identities.
jgriff: While the Intrigue had a few problems early on, that's not why it didn't sell. Other cars have had much more/bigger problems off the start and still sold well.
1415: I think your take on re-sale is a bit over done. The effect of Oldsmobile's phase out won't hit that fast, if it ever hits at all.
You are exactly right, “You only get ONE chance to make a good impression”, Olds flubbed it up. I’ll have to go to my local Chevy dealer and at least look at the Impala, just to see for myself how well it is put together. Maybe after the snow melts on quiet Sunday afternoon.
It kind of like new housing construction, on the surface the design looks great, but question is where/how did the builder cut the corners, and will the home-owner be plagued with a series of problems down the road.
teo: Not sure I agree with your comparison of the Impala vs. Intrigue. Fit and finish in my Intrigue are excellent. The car is still very tight after 19K miles and a new intermediate steering shaft. I drove an Impala rental and was not impressed at all. The interior design and controls are very much Chevrolet, where the Intrigue has a much more import-like interior. The taxi cab Impalas I've seen are enough to turn me off. I have yet to see a taxi Intrigue.
Like many Olds buyers, I'm a previous import owner. I like all of Olds' cars, and there are no Buick, Chevy, or Pontiac sedans that I would consider buying. I'm afraid its back to the imports for me once Olds is gone...
I agree that a lack good marketing and image is/was problem, but the word of mouth was NOT positive on the Intrigue. Feedback on Hondas & Toyotas is almost ALL positive. In fact in a crunch, most people would feel comfortable with either choice.
A fully loaded Accord is around $25k, the Intrigue is $30k, how can the average Joe justify the spending an extra 5k not to mention the headaches.
Where did you hear Pontiac will get this? I saw this car about a year ago on TV on Road & Track or something like that, it was small like a Fiero and they said it would be limited production. Not practical at all even compared to the F-bodies but could be fun as a second or third vehicle
Motor Trend has confirmed that the Opel Speedster will make it to Pontiac Showrooms and the car is intended to replace the F-bodies after they are discontinued in 2002. The Speedster is based on the Lotus Elise. This car can kick the butt of the Honda S2000 and BWM Z3 for a much lower price tag...let's wait and see.
Intrigue GLS can be had for $26,515 MSRP. Not sure where somebody came up with $30K. After rebates and dealer discounts it will probably be more in line with Accord EX V6 pricing.
Until yesterday I was the owner of an orphan, a 96GEO Prizm, but I never even gave a second thought to it,as the car is a corolla and the chevy prizm still lives on. I have had to go to the dealer once to change timing belt at 75K miles. Suddely I find that my home has been turned into an orphanage and my 2K Intrigue is also an orphan. Must be quite a distinction, I suppose. But I did not expect much from Generic Motors. This could still be the revenge of the consumer reports kind of buyer, I could take the 1K rebate and buy a Buick Century a make it a triple, when in a few years that division gets axed. Pretty soon all GM cars will be bought only by ex GM employees, current employees, GM card holders and fleets. And to think these guys want to add to their brand portfolio by going after Daewoo. This is after all the dysfunctional company that brought you the Aztek. Would n't it have been cheaper than 2-3 billion to can the entire management than kill Olds. Where is Kerkorian when you need him? Or Perot?
Comments
RIP Olds, it was a good hundred years.
How on earth GM could squander the resources poured into the 3.5 engine, the design of the Intrigue and the still-born OSV is beyond understanding. As has been mentioned in numerous postings, Ford sells the Taurus and Olds can't figure out how to get a handle on the Intrigue.
I talked to a friend of mine at GM in Michigan today and he echoed many of the same sentiments that have been posted here. Lousy advertising throughout the General's product and poor understanding of what motivates buyers.
Does anyone remember when motor-heads actually built cars and there wasn't a collection of bean counters and focus groups that determined what we'd like? Remember the original 4-4-2? I drove a '67 for quite a while and that thing hauled. I really believed Olds was going to get a hold of the brass ring with the direction they were heading. Someone here mentioned that the suits at Olds should have taken a look at this message board a long time ago and paid just a little bit of attention to it.
The upside of today is that the Supremes made 5-4 decision and the downside is that GM made a first-class bone head decision.
I think that is three cents worth of ramblings.
but having CNN show the Intrigue only, when telling today's tale, doesn't help! I am the "local" car guy here at work and elsewhere, and provide lots of car/industry info to folks, so having an Olds certainly won't help my credibility.
No flames please, I bought the car as it was/is one of the best in class, and is recognized as such by experts, but Olds dropped the ball in
properly targeting this car. I am hanging onto mine, not because I have to, but because I want to.
Well GM is probably satisfied that the AARPS have converged on Buick and sucking up the Impala. Can't argue; for its reliable transportation..
Going back in time::::::my good teenager friend's father bought a new 1949 Olds 88 powered by the Rocket V-8 teamed to the Hydra-matic trans and this car back in 49 was a screamer--big time performer and creamed virtually everything in sight. Flathead V-8s and the 6 cylinder offerings in that era couldn't hold a candle to the Rocket 88.
My favorite dealership didn't open yesterday because of snow, some 16" of it; however today I will have a little talk with the big guy...
dindak::::::the Bluewater bridge was closed most of yesterday. I cancelled my 400 mile trip today to mid-Ohio due to another rain, sleet ,and snow front coming thru Ohio & Mich around noon. We will just keep the Intrigue warm and cozy in the garage...Sure don't want anything to happen to it for my insurance company would probably tell me its worthless.
I will call the "help line" shown on one of the posting to see how they plan to "ease the pain and share the grief". Maybe GM will hire Algore
to smooth over the loss of this great automotive nameplate.
A note for recent Canadian Oldsmobile owners. You will likely be getting a C$2000 credit from GM in the mail. I will call GM and confirm. It helps, but if GM doesn't give me something decent to buy it's worthless. As much as I like the Impala/ Regal, I would chose a Maxima first.
Someone mentioned they didn't think Olds would last as long as it's product cycle. I probably agree. In a year or two, all that will probably be left is Alero, Aurora and Bravada.
1415: Apparently more snow on the way tomorrow. I think I am going out to look for a snow blower at lunch. My back is killing me today.
Hoe do you like your car? Are you having any problems with them?
With the loss of olds i have no idea what i will buy next.
I don't think buying an Oldsmobile means you are buying an "orphan". The cars will have parts available for years and years to come. Further, Oldsmobile will still be around for 3 years at least, and it's not like no one has heard of the name. If I am able to, I will gladly buy another before the end.
Then I made the joke "well, they aren't gonna shut down the company over this are they". He just laughed. I also asked him when they would stop making the Intrigue. He said 2 years.
Happy Intriguing???
"Additional rebates" came out this morning on all the Olds models-$1000/Aurora$500/Intrigue and the others were $500.
Some of these dealers are going to collect big time from Generous Motors...
i agree that buick is next. i just wish that olds had been shut down 5 years ago and that the resources spent on it were spent on saturn. the intrigue would have made a solid mid-size saturn and the alero could have replaced the the base models.
my next car will likely be my first "foreign car". had it not been for the intrigue i would currently be drivign a camry.
They too are considering Camry as the next car.
There's more than one reason they lost sales/market share.
dave
What he should have done is cut Buick and Oldsmobile models down to 2-3 each and keep the names and spirit of each alive. Buick is next, I see it in the cards. I also see Chevrolet/ Pontiac going a bit upscale.
Chevy has announced it's next generation small cars will have boosted quality and upscale models. Perhaps if they can do this to other new models, I will go that route for the next car/ truck. If they don't, I off to the see my Nissan dealer. Current Chevy/ Pontiac models leave a lot of luxury/ quality feel to be desired.
I totally believe you had no idea of Oldsmobile's death. They would have keep that kind of thing top secret.
My wife and I are enjoying our 98 Chevy Malibu, especially after replacing its tires. A great car for city and suburbs, and for shorter trips on highways. Mostly for 30-70 mile trips, but fine up to 150 miles or so in one direction.
The Malibu is very nimble and comfortable enough. Even while we have a base car, with few options but the 3.1l V-6 engine. It is bit underpowered with its 150-155 hp, but the later models got extra 20 hp.
Practically all 2000 Imapala LS and Monte-Carlo SS are enjoying them. Much less complaints than concerning Intrigue. You may check for yourself:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?&f=0&c=Sedans&t=4230&q=*
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?&f=0&c=Sportscars&t=2163&q=*
Concerning Buick: it is alive and going well. We bought one a couple months ago. And are enjoying it even more than the Malibu. Great power, very comfortable inside, and right appearance.
I had an Alero for a rental car last year...nice little car. It had a 4 cyl, but was pretty peppy and seemed really well-built. I'd take one over a Grand Am in a heartbeat. I also like the Intrigue...tasteful without drawing too much attention to itself. I also like the first Aurora, and might consider getting one when the prices come down. The new one looks too much like a Hyundai from the back.
Most of my cars have been Chrysler, but I've had my share of GM cars. My only Olds was a used 1982 Cutlass Supreme. It was a piece of junk, but I loved it. The tranny went out at about 62,000 miles, and the Buick 231 croaked around 73K. If it had the Olds 307, I'd probably still be driving it! But it was a smooth, roomy, comfortable car, and a good looker, with its slicked back grille and color-keyed sport rims.
Anyway, I guess If I give up on Mopar and come home to General Mommy, I'll have to settle for a stodge-mobile or a clapped-out boy racer. Or a Biscayne (er, I mean, Impala)
Farewell, Olds
-Andre
There's also a kind of bonding between Olds owners. A new family moved on my street and we just bonded from the simple fact that he owns an Alero and I have an Intrigue. Not to mention this forum.
For the record, my Intrigue has over 65k miles. No squeaks, no rattles (don't know what Edmunds did to it's car to have the so-called interior noise) suspension still tight as a drum, tranny smooth as greased silk, engine a whisper at idle and quiet while cruising and after 2 years still in love with my machine and still proudly announce that I own an OLDSMOBILE INTRIGUE.
Thanks for being probably one of the few folks at GM who actually listened to us owners.
I am an eternal optimist, so I hope Oldsmobile gets saved somehow or the Intrigue gets moved to another division. Time will tell.
Wagoneer said thier were to few of us, and yurakm got it right that this is not so. VW does ok targeting us, and at 250k sales per year, Olds had perhaps to many nameplates, but for the targeted audience, its whats out there. THERE ARE more buyers for mediocre cars (in comparison) like the GP et al, who wouldn't know ergonomics and balanced handling if it fell on them. This is why so many more Impala's, GP's and thier ilk are sold.
Best to you and thanks again for keeping the faith. Know that your efforts and that of some of your collegues was not without benefit to many nontheless. -ketch
My take on Olds failures, IF IF they had produced virtually flawless Intrigues [w/ 3.51], under-priced it, and with a little marketing,,, “they could have been a contender”. Build it and they will come, Toyota & Honda understand that theory and that why people keep coming back.
GM has too many similar models crossing over different division. Instead of producing a bunch of mediocre models they need to focus on being the best at one type of sedan. For example trucks, they seem to have that down pretty good.
Just this month an EX ’96 Aurora [die-hard domestic buyer] switched over to Acura, so far she is very, very happy. Those of you thinking about a Maxima, be careful Nissan is still on the ropes.
So i say to you "people, people", it was an above average american car (oops used "was" again) and marketing misdirection or lack of same did her and the division in, not word of mouth as proposed.
As for 1415's comment that we are stuck, i guess I do not feel so as parts/service is/will not be an issue as support will be there. resale is the issue, but for one was/still am in this for many more years, so resale was never an issue anyways.
Until then, i enjoy the car measurably, even in the new 4 inches of snow we are getting on top of the foot already 8(
Around this time last year, I was actively involved in my car shopping research as I was about to enf the lease of my '97 Acura 2.5TL. Since I wanted to change the mood a bit, I was aiming at a large domestic GM sedan (I can't stand Ford or DCX products) and the final contender runner ups were the Intrigue and the Impala. For some reason I was more biased towards the Impala but I also took a hard look at the Intrigue since good year end rebates and deals were being offered an the car was pretty much in tune with what I was looking for. When I finally got to test drive the Intrigue I was welcomed by a very responsive and smooth powertrain combo. The car was a loaded GLX, leather, sunroof the works...$2,000 cash rebate, I believe it was a '991/2 model. Not bad. But once I started to closely inspect other areas of the car, my enthusiasm for the Intrigue was cooled off rather quickly. Fit and finish was one area of this car that I found to be both unacceptable and dissapointing...the way the trunk was finished in this $26K "premium" automobile was the equal of a Cavalier. Misaligned door panels, questionable interior assembly quality, etc. NOTHING in the Intrigue made me change my natural bias to the more "Traditional" and more GM looking Impala. The salesman offered to park both an Impala LS and the Intrigue GLX side by side for comparison. Explain to me how the "lowly" Chevrolet looked and felt much better bolt together than the Intrigue?? The Trunk fittings in the Impala belonged in a Cadillac while the ones in the Intrigue belonged in the cavalier. Panel aligment was much more precise in the Impala and the doors closed with a satisfying sound like a bank vault. The interior of the Impala was better finished and more carefully put together than in the Intrigue; however, materials wise both were about the same. From a "Tactile" perspective the Impala felt like a much more durable and substantial car. When lowering or raising windows, the door panels in the Impala didn't breath in like the ones in the Intrigue. Look, I am the ideal Olds customer...under 30 years old, Computer Engineer, great income, solid credit, married, etc. The Intrigue failed to move me away from the "Cheap and Lowly" Chevrolet. At the time I was not aware of all the problems early generation Intrigues had (Brakes, Steering, Front end) but very few items in the Intrigue spelled to me long lasting quality for $3K more over the loaded Impala. Based on this experience I can understand why the Intrigue did not work for Olds. Yes GM and Olds abandoned their products but the Intrigue lacked the substance, reliability and reputation to counter attack its imported targets. Nice car, good content, wonderful mechanics, but the quality and finish wasn't there in numbers and that's why the Intrigue failed on its mission. The Intrigue was a great idea that somehow got screwed up during execution. If these cars had been bolted together right from the beginning, Olds and the Intrigue would have had a secure future in the market as we speak. Word of mouth is the best and most effective form of marketing and even if these cars had prove to be the best thing since sliced bread they would have sold by themselves like hot cakes.... but It did not happen folks. Too many problems in the beginning and these cars quickly caught on a spiral. Yes, the 2000 and 2001 models are much improved, but already too late! First impressions are much more valuable than later revisions.
Owners of the 2000/01 Impala really like their cars because they haven't had the frequency of problems (or not problems at all)like the '98 and '99 Intrigue owners had to endure! The Impala LS is a great handling car, excellent engine power, superb brakes, smooth transmission, responsive handling, fantastic traction control system, excellent safety scores, etc. Before you start ranting against the Impala, GP or Regal, go and drive one and then you comeback and praise/rant all you want. I pass my judgement on the Intrigue because I drove it, felt it, looked at it. A few posters here seem to pass judgement on cars they have never ever driven before...they just go by someone elses opinion. Sometimes selling a car with a high tech V-6, PCS and other gadgets is not enough if quality, value and reputation are put in harmony together, not as separate identities.
1415: I think your take on re-sale is a bit over done. The effect of Oldsmobile's phase out won't hit that fast, if it ever hits at all.
It kind of like new housing construction, on the surface the design looks great, but question is where/how did the builder cut the corners, and will the home-owner be plagued with a series of problems down the road.
Like many Olds buyers, I'm a previous import owner. I like all of Olds' cars, and there are no Buick, Chevy, or Pontiac sedans that I would consider buying. I'm afraid its back to the imports for me once Olds is gone...
A fully loaded Accord is around $25k, the Intrigue is $30k, how can the average Joe justify the spending an extra 5k not to mention the headaches.
Maybe Honda's V6 Engine and the new mini SUV shared by Toyota and GM can help a little bit.
http://www.speedster.opel.com/
Guess who's getting this baby? PONTIAC! and they will sell it during the 2003 model year!
Suddely I find that my home has been turned into an orphanage and my 2K Intrigue is also an orphan. Must be quite a distinction, I suppose.
But I did not expect much from Generic Motors. This could still be the revenge of the consumer reports kind of buyer, I could take the 1K rebate and buy a Buick Century a make it a triple, when in a few years that division gets axed.
Pretty soon all GM cars will be bought only by ex GM employees, current employees, GM card holders and fleets.
And to think these guys want to add to their brand portfolio by going after Daewoo. This is after all the dysfunctional company that brought you the Aztek. Would n't it have been cheaper than 2-3 billion to can the entire management than kill Olds. Where is Kerkorian when you need him? Or Perot?