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Comments
Cherry thinks that the world should be full of Azzteks..
The truth of the matter is that, just like Ford, Chevy inflates their numbers with rental agencies. Take out the rental fleet and how many have they sold? More than Intrigue? Probably. But just because a car is not "popular" doesn't mean it's crap either. Tucker vehicles had features that took another 40 years to get to other cars. And some features still aren't used. Did it mean that Tucker's were bad cars? No; they just had similar management problems not too different from Oldsmobile. Let's not forget that first year Impalas also suffered from some of the same problems the Intrigue did plus some. And even with the problems that may still persist, Intrigues are not Hyundai Excels.
As for myself, I had the choice and CAN AFFORD to get a loaded V-8 Aurora, Envoy or anything else I wanted in that price range. With full knowledge of what "could" happen if I got another Intrigue I decided to purchase another one (purchased 7/11/2001). I choose neither of the stated vehicles because of not being able to fit comfortably (Aurora) and not being able to find a truck w/2WD & traction control (Envoy--4WD is big up in PA). I investigated a Regal GS but the left air vent blew on my left knee and the supercharger alone didn't make it "outperform" Intrigue. In the twisties, the Intrigue is phenomenal.
I also looked at Impala. And for me, automatic climate control was a deal breaker. Not to mention my Intrigue looks way better than any Impala I've ever seen (IMO), have gotten more compliments on it (inside and out), had no major problems, has all the features that are important to me---and my wife hates the Impala's looks.
In short, it's like the old Temple University commerical with Bill Cosby. "I could have chosen any car.... I chose Intrigue." That selection was based on experience, info both from other owners and the media as well as the 5/60 warranty. And, unless you have GM stock, why do you keep bringing up how much better Impala sells over Intrigues? Even if you do, the last I checked Chevy and Oldsmobile aren't traded as separate companies. If one hurts, GM as a whole hurts.
He said he couldn't see how the Aztek slipped out. From the way it sounds, some executive that had the final say felt it was great and no one dared to challenge it. That has to be the case or something similar if it take 4 months to appove a cosmetic design change.
For that matter, why are you here? You don't provide any relevant information. All you do is talk about how much better the Impala is over the Intrigue and why we're all going to suffer by owning one. B4z provides his views of both sides... good and bad. He has something to contribute. Are you a diciple of jgriff?
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Olds could have gone more premium and had better non GM (might as well be Cavalier) parts-bin switchgear/buttons and interior door handles in the Intrigue (I was reminded of this when I had to take my dash partially apart this weekend to do the mp3 thing). They could have also made the engine more powerful with premium fuel requirements like the competition (it did have good power for its time). A 5 speed or tiptronic tranny could have been there like the competition to have driver involvement.
This ramp is as follows: going straight in the opposite direction to the highway for about 1/8 mile, than turns almost 180 degree, and straight again for about 1/16 mile, ending by the merge lane.
The turn part is tight. Most cars turns at about 15-20 mph, even less with old bald tires. No sense to accelerate much at the first, straight stretch to brake immediately after.
I was approaching the turn at 25 mph. A brand-new, light-color Aurora appear in my rear view mirror and started to tailgate me. I was in Malibu, not Regal, and was sure I cannot overaccelerate the Aurora.
Merging on I-95 is not sugar even without a tailgaiter behind you. Even more if the tailgater can merge faster and to pass me while I am still merging. On the other hand, the pavement was dry, and my car have pretty good tires, Firehawk SH-30. So I accelerated and turned at 35 mph.
The tailgating Aurora could not make the turn at the speed. It tried to catch after turn, but was still at least 60 yards behind when I merged safely.
I told my wife: now it will pass us fast. We cannot compete with his engine at merging speed, 30-60.
Well, it passed us really, but it took a long time. Well after I reached 60 mph and stopped accelerating. I was going to exit at MacDonald at a short distance, and did not need nor could drive faster than 60 mph in the right lane.
After returning home, I searched for for Aurora specs on Internet. 9 seconds 0-60 for 3.5l. Even my underpowered 98 Malibu accelerates to 60 mph in about the same time, or a bit faster.
The switchgear I really don't like is the stuff on the doors for the windows(looks like it was pulled straight from my father's 95 Intrepid) and the buttons for hvac. Atleast the passenger airbag dash covering doesn't rise over time like bad pizza dough out of the dash like the old Intrepids seem to all do.
This is a fun car to drive - it was hard to go back to work.
yurakm- I wouldn't call the Aurora 3.5 underpowered. I've seen several magazines do 0-60 in 7.8 so I don't know where the 9+ seconds came from. Maybe the Lincoln LS V6. The guy on I-95 was probably just not pushing it much. Had I been behind the wheel, I would have probably passed you quickly:)
ketch- I agree and disagree about the Impala. For the more serious "drivers" among us there is the Intrigue, Passat, Maxima, and now Altima V6 and for everyone else there is the Camccordrus trio. The Impala sort of splits the difference. Serious import intenders wouldn't even consider it, but those who buy cars with the same logic one uses when buying a washer(i.e. camccordrus buyers) will probably look at it. And the Impala does offer alot for the price. But I don't regret buying an Intrigue over an Impala at all, even with the lousy resale.
The rear one did make my rear feel more solid/composed when doing quick steering manouvers. I did get more handling improvement when I upgraded my tires from Eagle LS to Michelin Pilots though. Since you have RS-A's, your handling won't be as bad as the LS's.
The 9 seconds 0-60 for Aurora 3.5l is provided by Edmunds:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/oldsmobile/aurora/354drsedan35l6cyl4a/specs.html?id=lin0018
7.8 seconds you mentioned are for 4.0l V-8 Aurora:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/oldsmobile/aurora/404drsedan40l8cyl4a/specs.html?id=lin0018
The acceleration for 1998 Malibu with V-6 engine are here:
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1998/chevrolet/malibu/4drlssedan/specs.html?id=lin0066
My Malibu is base, not LS, but with the 3.1l V-6.
By the way, did you ever see a tailgaiter, who would not try pass a car in front of him on the first occasion? Even more if this car in front of him is a run-of-the-mill, not new, boring family cedan, which costs 4 times less than his own new powerful near-luxury car?
yurakm : Interesting. I'm sure I saw in MT that Intrigue was only marginally faster than 3.5L Aurora. I'll have to check that. At any rate, I thought the Aurora was a really nice car.
vcjumper : Would love to see what GM had on tap for the next generation Intrigue. We will likely never know.
Aurora's styling is really nice, imho, if only it can shed 500lbs, whew....
Will consider a used one in the future.
I think the aurora V6 only weighs about 200lbs more than the intrigue. So it is not that much heavier in reality.
I haven't seen a 9 sec. 0-60 time for the aurora.
Unless the magazine was guessing. Everything that i have seen is about 8 flat or a tenth or two more.
The V8 is about 7.5 secs. It weighs 200lbs more than the V6.
You guys might remember harlanc who told us that the 3.05 gear in the 2000 and later intrigue's increased the 0-60 time by two tenths of a second.From 7.8 to 8.0.If you factor in the 3.29 gear in the aurora and add the 200lbs that would put you back at 8.0 seconds.
I only paid 21.3K for the car including state sales tax. There is no way i could have gotten as much car as i did for that kind of money anywhere else. Period.
The impala is a joy to drive and i have gotten used to rear end styling and the black mouldings.
Everything else about it i like.
The impala will not be a long term car for me. I beleive that eventually it will succumb the typical GM issues. Alternators, water pumps, suspension,power windows, etc.
But for now it has been absolutely bulletproof.
9000 miles in less than 5 months.
The intrigue had lots of issues during that time.
But i would consider a used intrigue to modify once the prices drop below 8-9K.
"Tires, tires, tires" Oct 17, 2001 4:51pm
You can find a lot of discussions and opinions here, including my reports on experience with SH-30.
In short, I have 215/60-R15 SH-30 on Malibu since the last November. Put 8k miles on them and like the tires very much. They provide very good cornering on dry pavement, and outstanding cornering on wet. Good enough for occasional Connecticut snowstorm, but nothing outstanding in this department.
However, I am not sure if the tires are equally good for W-bodies. Thought about this because my other car is Buick Regal GS.
First, 225/60-R16 is the largest size available, and I have doubts in the anything stretched to limits.
Second, one driver (garysts) reported recently on the above board his problems with the SH-30 tires of the above size. Not so good longitudinal grip (wheel spinning) and hydroplanning at higher speed. See his postings around #800, the beginning of September.
He drives Cadillac Seville STS. The 300 hp / 295 lbf V-8 engine can spin rubber more easy than typical. Additionally, his car is usually rather heavy loaded at rear: 300-500 lbs of hardware in trunk and rear seats.
However, the Regal engine produces almost as much torque, 280 lbf. So, I probably will install something else on my Regal after the OEM tires. Possibly the new Bridgestone Potenza 950.
b4z : It's too bad you had a bad Intrigue. What year was it again? 3.8 or 3.5?
According to Tirerack user surveys,
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/index.jsp
all models of Michelin tires are one of the best in the respective categories. Usually the best, or second, or third in category.
Category is, for example, Max Performance, or High Performance - All Season, or Standard Touring, or simply All Season, or Winter. There is no much sense to compare directly tires accross different categories.
Basically, it is safe to buy Michelin by brand only. You also pay a premium for the simplicity: Michelin tires are expensive.
With Firestone, and Goodyear, this is another story. The quality is not consistent accross a brand. One of the best tire model in every category usually is either Firestone or Goodyear; however, some of the worst models are sold under the same brands.
For example, Firehawk SH-30 is one of the best tires in the High Performance All Season category. The worst tires in the category are also Firehawks, GTA and GTA 2 models.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/hpas.jsp
The same with Goodyear. The best all-season tires are Aquatread 3; the worst is Invicta GL.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/as.jsp
Resume: you can buy excellent Firestone and/or Goodyear tires; however, you have to know what specific model you need. Cannot shop on brand only.
I've always had good luck with Goodyear and they provide a lot of jobs in my home town as they have a big plant there now. I know Michelins are good and I really liked the BF Goodrich TA tires on my old car also.
Thanx for the links.
Having had an excellent experience with the BF Goodrich Touring T/A that came on my Alero, when it came the time to replace the Stratus' shoes, I picked the all-season Radial T/A and couldn't be happier: much better grip on corners and on wet pavement, quieter and much, much less prone to aquaplaning.
I just cannot recommend Michelin in good conscience. Then again, your mileage may vary.
Interestingly, BF Goodrich is owned by Michelin...
February '99 build date. March '99 lease date.
I do not know the reason. It can be psychological: people like more what they selected themself than what was forced on them. Or "one size fit all" OEM tires do not fit well with personal driving style and conditions: For example, I could not care less about tire noise, but value high good cornering.
However, it looks also that at least some OEM tires are manufactured to lower specs than the tires of the same name for general sales. Probably to save several penny for car manufacturers.
For example, the Firestone Affinity are warrantied to last 80,000 miles if bought from tire dealer. However, the Affinity OEM tires installed on Chevy Malibu last only about 35,000 miles. Something fishy.
Auto parts suppliers generally sell the highest quality items to the manufacturers and the rest, those that hasn't passed the manufacturers quality bar, go to retail. Isn't it like this with tires?
TIA
One thing I would add: I believe that if each of these 2 cars had an identical quality defect, Intrigue sales would suffer more than the Impala. Because the intended market for the Intrigue is so highly quality-competitive (Camcords), Olds has to be exceptionally good in this respect in order to compete. I think the quality of the Intrigue is very good overall, but some of the first year quality issues did tarnish it's reputation early on and this segment does not tolerate that kind of thing very well.
I have a 99 Intrigue and I love it. I am planning to buy a 2002 model soon also, so I do believe in this car. But I hope GM is listening when they decide to launch another car into this very competitive segment, they need to do better the first year.
b4z : Mmm... right in that gray area of early Intrigues. As I understand it, there were still problems with the 99s. I'm glad I'm not having a bad experience as I would probably just go to a Maxima if I did.
At the same time, though, I also swapped out the sway bars for the thicker ones also available at grandprixstore.com, so I don't know what is helping what. I would imagine that the difference in handling around corners is due to the sway bars but I've also noticed an improvement in ride comfort, probably because of the stbs. There is less understeer and it seems to be tighter on bumps, doesn't shudder anymore.
I took my car (2000 GX 3.5) up the canyon the other day. Man, she ate those curves. Now if I could just get rid of those clunking sounds when going over bumps at lower speeds (this just recently appeared after they replaced my power steering pump [almost sounds like the engine mounts]) and the wind noise on the passenger's door, I'd be pretty darn happy. I'm still loving the K&N filter (more horsepower and shifts smoother) and the white headlights make her look sharp.
Anyway, I like BF Goodrich tires a lot. And considering all-season tires against Michelin's, I think it beats it down in both price and performance.
I'm glad to hear Dindak admit that he would switch if he had problems like some of the rest of us have.
If I were choosing how to update the Intrigue, I'd make it more like the aurora's front end. Give it some bigger headlights, put some nice front openings in the bumper, maybe get some more vertical taillights and get rid of the bulging effect on the fenders, make it tighter, leaner. I wish I had a digital camera to show you all how much the relocation of the emblem on the front end enhances its appearance. It fills an empty space so well. I only wish it was huge like the new Bravada.
Speaking of Bravada, I was checking some out the other day (comparing the sticker between the rendezvous and bravada. Why in the world would anyone ever want a rendezvous over a bravada? The rendezvous has the same engine my sister's 1990 minivan has!) and I found something distressing. There is a piece of plastic on the front end of every bravada that the designers must not have thought out well. It's so flimsy that I could grab it with my hand probably and pull it off. Say what you will about Hondas or Volkswagens, I've yet to feel a piece of flimsy plastic on a later model of those. Very disappointing for GM.
I can't understand why it's hyped so much by the press...
Its been awhile.
However, I know exactly that with my Malibu I had to replace the worn-out OEM Affinity tires at about 37K miles. And I read on the Malibu board that a lot of people also replaced their tires at about 32k to 42K miles.
And I know exactly the Affinity tires are advertised as good for 80K. I read the specs. They are available on Firestone website.
The Affinity are also advertised at Firestone shop in my neighborhood. Firestone provides warranty for 80K miles.
Performing most of oil change and other service on my cars at this shop, I hung up here often enough and long enough to study the advertising. Nothing else to do, except reading old magazines or watching TV.
This really is a great car. The last 10K miles have been trouble free for me. Before then it was the usual stuff - intermediate steering shaft, crankshaft sensor, and dead battery. With 29K miles now I have no complaints. Funny, a relative of mine bought a '99 Accord EX V6 around the time I got my Intrigue. With 26K miles on her Accord she is having the transmission replaced. So much for those "bullet-proof" Hondas.
The original Aurora? Or the newer-redesigned-ugly POS iteration of the Aurora? Oldmobile really took a nice clean sporty design and f'd it up. Way to go GM! Another ugly POS on the road.
No wonder Olds is gone. Buick is next. Wake up guys!
jg28 : Oh ya, like Maxima a lot. What stopped me before was the higher price and the rear end which is still not as nice as an Intrigue. Nissan is doing what Oldsmobile should have in terms of cars and marketing. After Intrigue it will come down to Maxima, Altima or maybe a Grand Prix if they do a good job with the re-design. Might even consider a used 2004 Aurora 4.0, which would likely be the last year. Oh well, that's a few years away.
evandro : Ya, I like BF Goodrich tires also. They had great traction IMO.
My son drives a 1998 Maxima SE. He was home for the weekend and drove my 2000 GX quite a bit. He wasn't real impressed. I love his Maxima but haven't driven it enough to make a good comparison.
Interesting article in yesterday's NY Times about the new, non-Japanese, top guy at Nissan. Took over less than 2 years ago when they were on the brink of bankruptcy. Now they are making lots of money and he has reduced their long term debt by $1.25 billion. The gist of the article was that many Japanese are starting to recognize that bringing in a fresh, non-Japanese, approach to a stodgy company may be just what it needs.