You say: "I was speaking strictly in terms of looks. " really? , doesn't seem so...read on
and..." I've never driven one so I would have no basis for making any other statements about the car other than how it looks". Then, do what you say and don't...see below.
"Also, I joined this discussion in the first place merely out of curiousity. I saw the topic on the list of hot topics so I popped in for a read" funny then you did not just read, but wrote too.
" I've purchased American cars in the past and may do so again. " I seriously doubt that IMO.
"There are a few that appeal to me, it's just that none of them are manufactured by GM-well, except maybe the Corvette. " so this MUST be based on looks alone, since thats your premise here? Not likely, so say so. If you had, and fessed up this was based on you real knowledge about the product, I'd respond that Olds was/is recognized as having some of the best cars from GM, and the US. Again, read the facts contained in past reports and tests that compare.
Not trying to dis anyone, but am sick and tired of input here from some, ovewr the past year+, not just you, that reaches conclusions without explaining how, or factually in error. Most of these fault Olds/GM based on assumptions and heresay. This isn't to say no one should provide FACT BASED/EXPERIENCED based input that is negative, as it is appropriate. its everyone's right to provide input, but expect to be challenged if its without merit.
I like the front end of the new aurora very much. I think the Intrigue looks more like the old Aurora (which I also like). I'd just like to see bigger headlights.
someone else covered how the stbs are installed. I don't think the sway bar would ever have a problem. The front OEM swaybar is HUGE anyway. It's not that big of a difference but IS in handling.
My brother thinks he forgot to grease something on the sway bar installation and thinks that's what's making the horrible creaking noises. I hope that's what it is. I'll let you know.
Keep this board happening! It's so exciting to see!
What the heck are you talking about? Sorry, I didn't realize that in order to read AND POST in here that it is required that I actually own an Intrigue. I don't know what point you were trying to make with all your quotes and comments either.
I've driven Corvettes, I would consider buying one. I've driven many different GM vehicles-mostly early to mid 90s-I worked for a couple different major rental car companies for about 6 years. So I think I know enough about GM cars to make some comments on them.
I have very strong opinions about cars and I have owned American cars, most recently 2 Ford Mustangs. Both were great cars and there are times when I wish I still had them.
Here are some cars I would like to own: Porsche 911, Dodge Viper, Chevrolet Corvette, BMW M3, BMW 740, BMW 540, Honda S2000. These are some of the cars that I find interesting and wouldn't mind owning someday. These are some of the best cars on the planet in my opinion.
As I said, you can post here all you want (but said you just read here, so...), I couldn't care less, but having never owned the car, and making assumptions then, you can expect to be challenged as to those. Example: You write off GM as whole without knowing facts from experts in the industry that they in fact have some great cars, and yes some bad. So, expect to be recieve input that you might not like when you make blanket judgements. BTW there are other newsgroups that are more general and to the point of your input about Amercan cars in general, than this very specific one for a car you never have experienced.
One of the auto industry maxims is "speak with data." Someone (one2one?) cited JD Power as showing that the Intrigue is on a par with its Japanese competition. Finding that difficult to believe, I went to the JD Power site and did a comparison on the 2000 Intrigue, Accord, Maxima, and Camry. The initial quality ratings clearly show the Intrigue trailing the pack, beating none of the others in any category, getting "middle of the pack" ratings in 4 of the 6 categories. Results for 2001 were similar although the Intrigue actually beat the Camry and Maxima in mechanical quality, the only one it got a 2nd 20% rating.
Keep in mind I'm an Intrigue owner and I love the car. However, I have no illusions that it's built to the same overall quality level as its Japanese counterparts and the data verifies that.
However, since the American auto industry has provided my my livelihood for 29 years, I always buy American.
Imacmil - The J.D. Power site is pretty interesting. Some useful info there, but some of it I have to question - like putting the Lexus ES300 in the top 10% for the performance category, which includes things like acceleration, handling stability, and braking performance.
GM and the Intrigue aren't there yet, but the gap narrows every year and the point is even if you aren't number one in quality, it doesn't mean it's bad.
I try and buy from GM or Ford (though I have owned a Honda and a Mazda) as they provide a lot of jobs to people in Ontario as well. Ontario is the second largest car making jurisdiction after Michigan. I have friends that work for both companies and suppliers so downturns affect them and me indirectly.
just to be patriotic, that way they will never improve; do buy the best one like intrigue which give you value, performance and style. Dindak has a point re GM being rated number 3 by J.D. power. It is like rating a corvette, porsch, M3, S4...., which one is best? They all are.
All I'm saying is the Japanese have us beat in quality and the Germans have us beat in well engineered driving machines. The Intrigue does not hold up well at all to the German or Japanese cars. Resale value, reliability, performance or ergonomics. The Olds is mediocre at best. The styling is certainly bland-more so, in my opinion, than the aforementioned manufacturers offerings.
f1jules' uneducated comments beg defense. Calling the Intrigue mediocre without having driven it is ever much more mediocre than the car will ever be. His basis for comparison is from driving GM rental fleet cars in the early/mid 90s. GMs come a long way in that time and Oldsmobile even further.
He contradicts himself when he says he likes the classic Aurora but calls Intrigue bland. INTRIGUE WAS PATTERNED AFTER THE CLASSIC AURORA!
I've reread several articles which speak highly of Intrigue. Several compare the car favorably to european imports. One says Intrigue is "european" in its ability to soften bumps yet not isolate one from the road. Car and Driver found themselves "leaning on the Intrigue in curves as if it were a BMW". Another says the Intrigue has "european flair with japanese sensibility." The shortstar engine (exclusive to Oldsmobile) was named in the TOP TEN two years in a row by Ward's Automotive magazine.
I don't put blinders on and say the Intrigue is flawless, certainly from my experience I've had more than my share of problems that I shouldn't have to deal with. Even so, I generally agree with the positive comments above.
Something else to keep in mind is that Intrigue was never meant to compete with Porsche or any of those overexpensive dreamcars he wants (and by the way my friend who actually has a Porsche likes my Intrigue a lot, especially the engine, which another article called "gloriously expensive."
The Intrigue isn't mediocre. People that don't know it and then form opinions about it are mediocre. Some will jump to Intrigue's defense regardless and that isn't my point here. I respect the most ardent critic of Intrigue that has posted here (jgriff) because he actually did what Oldsmobile wanted and came from the imports to try it out but it failed for him. But it would be hard to find a car lover that wouldn't say at least SOMETHING nice about Intrigue. We can call it a failure because GM didn't sell as many of them as the ubiquitous buicks and chevys out there. We can call it a failure because many people don't even know what an Intrigue is or who makes it. We can call it a failure because of the overwhelming problems that the majority of Intrigue owners have had with their cars. But we cannot rightly call the car a failure because it didn't try. Who among us would rather have a 1997 Cutlass Supreme over a 1998 Intrigue? Not me. Not one bit. No way.
focus : To be honest, I generally prefer the style of American cars. I don't buy them to be patriotic and I have bought foreign names before. I like a number of foreign makes, especially Nissan Maxima, Altima and Pathfinder. I may even buy a Japanese car again in the future. In the end, I certainly feel a bit better driving a domestic make because I know it boosts the local and regional economies.
f1jules : You are an odd guy. You come here with zero interest or experience with the Intrigue and tell us what a mediocre car it is. What a joke. I think you best go back to the Honda forum. They will love you over there!
I think you confused GM's ratings with Intrigue's. GM's is an average of its models, while the Intrigue is just one of these models. As all averages, some samples will be above it, others, below. From the information you found, it seems that the Intrigue is below GM's average.
However, good quality is not a synonym for good car. Saturn has good quality, but is a dog to drive. The Intrigue, on the other hand, has a lot of virtues that put it above the average car, Camry, Accord and Maxima included. Yes, maybe quality is not one of its virtues, but there are many.
When cars or anything else is rated, I don't just look at the conclusion, because it will be weighted according to someone else's priorities. I rather look at the individual categories and rank them to my personal priorities. That's why CR puts the dreadful Avalon as the top of large sedans while I put the Bonneville there, which I bought.
You see, journalists don't have to put their money where their mouth is...
Just went through the Original Intrigue thread and IntrigueII. I found my first post which was on Feb, 20,1999. I have been here for almost three years. As i was scrolling through i remembered all of the people who are no longer here. The old timers might get a kick out of some of these names: sunliner, tander,lee18, angietoo, 1487, art16, lss1, chavis10, matt, lindsey, rachelspop, delrick, dwg, etharmon, marktest, j_coleman, spitasky, regfootball, tenn1975, tblacknite, racer_x_9, greybeep, JGT74, oscarz2, jennimatt, cncman, georgeduda. I haven't heard from any of these guys in awhile.
one2one has been here since the beginning. I found a post from fgriff1 form December 1999 so he has been here before.
The early problems with the car were brake rotors and brake rotors and more rotors. Also the clunking front suspension were big issues among the early adopters. Angietoo was a major poster in the beginning, but things turned sour for her and i think she got them to buy her car back. She had the auttobahn package if i remember correctly.
fijules, you did say you only commented on looks, but then go onto say: "The Intrigue does not hold up well at all to the German or Japanese cars" ...and then say so in all areas, not just looks. Stop being hipocritical.
In fact the car does hold up well ergonomically and performance wise with its competitors, incl. some so called superior german brands. Go away unless you provide facts per Road tests et al. if you had, you'd be found for what you may in fact be: arrogantly pushing your euro/japanese brands sensiblities on cars. Oh, and BTW, at Road America Road course, i was able to pass, then hold off a 3 series for nearly an hour of 6miles/lab 12 turns/lab. I am sure that guy enjoyed reading "Oldsmobile" for that time.
In the end, you obviously just don't get it: provide input based on fact or leave. Failing to do so makes a fool only of yourself (consider that a done deal now).
I'm still here. Just had the oil changed at the dealer this morning. 28,000 miles and still loving my Intrigue (99 w/3.8).
About to hit the 3 year mark in a couple of months. Bought the 7yr 100,000 no deductible extended warranty when I bought the car. Plan on keeping it for a long time.
I knew you were but for some reason i put your name down as being AWOL. There were a lot more people. Some who only posted a couple of times then disappeared. I have always wanted a counter on this board to see how many people visit a particular thread. I would bet there are hundreds every day.
I am sure he did enjoy reading oldsmobile. I know many of them most love reading the Pontiac emblazoned on my lower bumper, as my GTP leaves them in a long sweeper and of course any straight away.
The intrigue actually gets a .84G skidpad which is as good or better than E46/E36 3 series. You also probably have better midrange acceleration with the torquey engine and wider gear ratios. You can also probably make use of the number easier, as there isn't any drift or oversteer factored in. Plus PCS/DSC actually increses cornering limits on a FWD front bias car, as oppose to RWD.
I haven't been on a road course yet, do most of my racing on the street. The GTP doesn't like the tight stuff, to long and wide. I had a great time a while back with some guy in a 330i. I didn't realize that car had so much body roll
I really like the Intrique, and am sadden to see it go. I think with maybe a 5 speed automatic, and a supercharger it would be amazing, AWD would be nice too
I agree, the Intrigue could have been developed into quite a performance machine if they had not killed it. I really want to see some Intrigue in the next generation Grand Prix. If GM does it right, they will sell me one in a about 5 years.
streetracer- don't have the PCS, and actually most stability systems create slower lap times in nearly all test i have read, regardless of car or brand. When defeatable, lap times go up. it appears the systems intrude too much during spirited times, when in fact some slide/steer is prefferred. By applying brakes (and in some case other means), the systems in fact slow the car as well. They are a great on the road safety device though.
When I was at the track, i did wish for more low down torque, like the GTP has, as i would sometimes exit turns "off cam", even when in first or second gear. A lower gear (higher numerically), like a 4.00 would have helped. Nevertheless, my car, and yes a GTP was there too, did well. never passed the GTP, as he likely had "lots of legs" with the SChgr. Gotta say it was humourous to see many euro makes there get 'taken" by so called lesser cars, esp. American iron. No Accords or Camrys appeared, jee wonder why 8^). Oh, and my car had 4 largish guys on board too. Had I been alone, the results would have been even better.
Now I like all cars that deserve it ("no boring cars" my motto), regardless of country or make. What this means is the litmus test I apply doesn't incl. an arrogance that excludes certain country's cars over another. Its easy to see when someone has little car knowledge, when they writeoff an entire country's car offerrings, or an entire make perhaps, without recognizing that this is simplistic at best. So its always humorous to see such dribble "as all American cars are worthless", or all (GM,Ford,VW, et al) cars are bad".
You are right. The post to which I responded talked about overall GM quality and I presented data on Intrigue quality vs. that of its primary foreign competitors. Guess I read something into the original post (that the Intrigue quality level was as good as the foreign competition) that wasn't intended.
I am happy to hear Olds and Pontiac cleaning up, on the road courses. I am sure on a track with a few more turns, or tighter ones you would have passed the GTP. Lets hope GM does the right thing and brings together the best of both cars.
I guess with PCS or any DCS its all in tuning, i.e. if its too intrusive it can hurt you, even if your car tends toward understeer.
I don't know why the GTP gets such a low skidpad number even for a front bias FWD sports coupe/sedan, except maybe because its long and wide. I know if a turn is really tight in tends to plough. I find that it handle hard cornering, when its sharp but not tight or narrow. You also do better at higher speeds, and using a little throttle to pull you through.
Ya, I know the feeling. Here PCS would have 'cut me off" appropriately before "a change of shorts" was required (kidding, but close): Came off a stop and go, got on it doing a left hander, but "she" came seriously on cam at around 3000rpm or so, and so....car transitioned immedaitely to massive, and I mean massive, understeer. Scared the you know what out of me by the time I got off the power and the car tightened its arc. In fact thats the beauty of the car, it is does understeer like most cars today (esp. fwd ones of course), but like some rear drivers, will stop said behavior easily. Nevertheless, its alot of power to the front. Read many tests that state the switch to the 3.5 from 3.8 increased torque steer as well, as the half shafts are less equal length, and some other suspension geometry was changed. Do know the i also do not get on her while in the niddle of lane changing, as the first time I did that the car seriously torque steered, and "jumped lanes" before I caught it. My wife was ticked of course (if she knew how much fun I have with the car when she and kids aren't there! Even after much prodding, I have been unable to get her to enjoy the car's power when she takes it, oh well).
I plan to keep the car another 6 years or about (2 years old now), and then likely move to a Pontiac, as I do expect them to take some of Olds direction over time (i.e going after more import conquest sales), while being a more agressive offerring perhaps.
BTW did you see the Pontiac G8 at the shows- a GP with all wheel drive and a Vette engine? Heard Lutz loves the car, so perhaps it could make production. The AWD system is from the minivans (Versatrak), and unbelievably, the engine is transverse (east/west) like fwd GP's, but again is the LT1 v8. Forgot HP numbers, but bets its around 300 or so. Most parts then off the shelf, so GM Build it, and name it GTO, as it meets that cherished nomenclature's level!
My GL is also coming up on 3 years, in 1 month in fact, and about 27,000 miles.
I've needed no warranty work done on it at all, but when turning the steering wheel there is a faint scraping sound in the upper steering column that sounds like a wire or something rubbing against the housing. I will probably have them look at that before the warranty expires.
Other than that the car has been perfect. The best one I have ever owned and I intend to keep it in the family for a long time.
I find the best way to avoid understeer is to turn the wheel less going into a turn, and use some throttle to pull you through. However, once you get into it an understeer situation, its tricky to get out.
I often slowly let up and begin to brake, as you said. However, you have to be careful not to overloading the tires with braking despite the additional weight/grip, while slowing to the point where they will actually corner.
They say the best thing to do is use both feet. You can use the brakes to slow you down, and rotate the rear, while using the throttle to pull you through and unwinding the wheel to reduce cornering load. You have to balance braking and throttle, so you are least putting some torque at the front.
I guess on the Intrigue you could leave PCS on, turn TCS off and give it some gas.
I did see the G8, its suppose to have AWD and a LS1 with 350HP and 350 ft/lbs of torque. The show car road on 20 inch rears and 19 fronts, with ultra high performance rubber. They had a 4 speed auto, probably from the trans am. I would like to see a beefed up 5 speed auto, or better yet a SMG with launch control like in the 2002 BMW M3.
As for the 0-60 thing. Completely humiliated a civic with all the goodies this afternoon. I was in the camaro and 2 kids pulled up beside me and started inching forward. Light turned green and i walked it off the line and then floored it at about 10 mph. They went from being half a fender length ahead to a car length behind in the space of about 75 feet. I love 0-60. Just not in a front wheel drive sedan.
Thats awesome. I've done that with the Intrigue several times. They think they've got me off the line, but once she gets up to that magic spot(3500 rpm) it's all over. All they see are my taillights and I-N-T-R-I-G-U-E.
Some posts back someone mentioned the Intrigue was at best mediocre. I'm not sure what he was comparing it to, maybe an M3 or something. But compared to other cars IN IT'S CLASS the Olds is far from Mediocre. I think I'd put the Camccordrus(Camry/Accord/Taurus) trio in that category. And a few others not mentioned. Styling wise, the Intrigue is one of the better looking sedans. Funny styling came up. I was at Sears last weekend and in the parking lot as I was putting some tools I bought in the car, a 30 something woman with a teenage daughter pulled up in an early 90s Accord. Both were looking my way as they pulled in and I had to ponder, was it me or the car they were looking at:) As they walked by the woman says "I love your car, what is that?" So I told her it was an Oldsmobile Intrigue and she goes on to say it was one of the best looking cars she had seen and then they walked on. So I guess it was the car they were looking at and not me. Seriously though, I think that sums up alot of this car's problems. People like the look, but no one knows what it is. When folks ask me what kind of car I have, I always tell them an Oldsmobile Intrigue and not just an Intrigue because when I first got the car I did that and several people said "Oh a Dodge." And I was like "No, it's an Oldsmobile not a Dodge." I guess I've always been partial to GM and Olds in particular, but I've always found they have a very good product that offers alot of features and performance for the price. I hate to see the division go as it's a shame the motoring public have failed to realize what a great line(albeit small) line of cars they have. Other than the MSRP price getting a but high on GLS models, I don't see why in the world this car didn't sell at least twice as well as it did. Hope everyone has a good weekend.
When i had my intrigue i wasted so many teenagers in those things that i have lost count. Nothing like 230 ftlbs of Intrigue torque against 130lbs of torque in a 3000 lb hondacar. I remember the kids in the new prelude with the coffee can exhaust that jumped me at the light and by the time i hit 40mph it was over. Or the third generation fbodies that tried to hang with me on the highway. "Okay Mr. Trans Am we both floor it at 65 mph and the first one to 100 wins". I would take that bet with 4 people in my intrigue.
So I stop first at a light as it is turning red, and a new Altima (black with a bit of a tint) pulls up next to me and starts revving his motor (definitely a 6 from the sounds of it). I look over, make eye contact and nod, and I knew the race was on. As usual, turned off the traction control, put the car in 2, started brake torqueing and waited for the light to change.
Ok so this hasn't happened yet but I'm waiting for it. Somebody slap me or something.
either the cadillac or aurora rims would look great. would it fit the intigue without casuing any problems whatsoever (friction, turns)? Vcjumper - we are still waiting for your secret formula on increasing HP. Wondering what your next fantasy might be.....
Judging by the published 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, dusting a new V6 Altima with an Intrigue is about as likely as (insert name of favorite female sex symbol here) calling you up and asking us to dinner and ???. Oh well, it's fun to daydream...
lee18 : Glad to hear all is well with the Intrigue.
vcjumper : I agree with lmacmil, the V6 Altima should knock out the Intrigue. I raced with a Maxima once and lost. No big deal, he paid lots more for his car so it should be faster.
ketch : I will probably go Pontiac or Nissan after Intrigue. It's about 5-6 years off so we should be shopping about the same time.
Focus - I have an Aurora, and have been working on increasing the performance. If any of you is interested in some increased performance I have some leads. First - definitely get a K&N panel filter. I tested a new K&N against a new paper filter on the dyno and got 3.7% (+7 HP at the wheels) more peak HP and more power throughout the curve. Peak torque was up 2% (+4 at wheels) and was up as much as +7 at the higher end of the rpm's. I modified the air box and that added +3 more peak torque and 0 to 1 more peak HP, but added lots of HP and torque throughout the curve. Check it out at http://www.caddyinfo.com Click on Cadillac Performance... then click on Northstar 4.0 ... All the dyno curves are there.
My initial air box mods were just a start. I have since done some more cutting on the air box to remove all sorts of turbulence causing obstructions in the box. I intend to take before and after pictures (I have an extra air box) and have those on the site in the future. I'll dyno again too and expect at least a couple more HP and torque.
Check out http://www.musclemotors.com for Intrigue stuff. Maybe they have something. Call them on the phone. The Aurora mass air flow meter was not listed, but they have it. Check out http://www.granatellimotorsports.com Muscle Motors sells granatelli mass air flow meters. They are less restrictive and calibrated for the greater air flow. On an Intrigue, who knows, you might get another 5 to 10 HP at the wheels.
Look for a cat back system for the exhaust too. Check out http://www.corsaperf.com I don't think they have Intrigue stuff but may do so custom. They are doing one for my Aurora - hopefully soon. Also check out Borla too. I've heard magnaflow is pretty loud.
Good luck finding a "micro tuner" to make the computer modifications. Maybe superchips has one or will have one. http://www.superchips.com Their web site is outdated - they will tell you that so you need to call them. The are now working on all the GM 3.8's.
Stay away from any "induction system" that does not have a heat shield and pulls hot air off the engine. You get equal or better performance from just a K&N replacement filter. Hope this helps if any of you are indeed looking. Maybe you could add 20 or 30 HP to the Intrigue (at the engine)
Altima? - that 0 to 60 is for manual, that cuts at least half a second (if you know how to drive). Nissan has been caught fibbing a lot and I've seen so many conflicting 0 to 60's for all sorts of cars that it is crazy. I've seen our new Impala 3.8 listed at 7.7. No way. I'd like to believe it too. Even so, if you are .5 seconds whatever quicker you spend the rest of the ride in an Altima, and IMHO I'd rather cruise in the Olds. Don't forget the big picture.
If the Altima is an automatic, you might have a chance, but if it's a stick and the driver is fairly skilled, he'll probably take you. However, I've read that Nissan predicts nearly 3/4 of the Altimas sold will be 4 cylinder models so you should have no problem with those. If only Olds would have offered a 5 manual in the Intrigue.
b4z, I've dusted several 80s F-bodies with the Intrigue myself. It's kind of fun. Not to stereotype, but those old F-bodies(and Mustangs) are usually driven by some redneck that has the rear end jacked up and flowmasters on them. Whats so funny is that at a stoplight jaunt, they will sit there and spin their rear wheels while I'm already gone.
Well I've been reading a bunch, and it time to chime in here a bit gentlemen.
I personally have really never cared much who makes the car. If I (1) like the looks & pricing, (2) it performs well and (3) it does not require too many trips to the service department, then call me a happy camper. The Intrigue covered 1.75 out of 3 for me.
If I did not have so many problems with number 3, I would still be driving an '98 Intrigue and thinking real hard about grabbing a one of the last new 3.5 2002.
Long story short, I've had my best luck with Infiniti/Nissan, Toyota, Acura/Hondas [in that order].
Intrigue Gentlemen carry on, you are doing a fine job.
FYI: I've found the maintenance a little more pricey on my CL, however I don't have any problems between scheduled maintenance check-points. Fact is I don't really mind paying a little more, if it prevents problems from arisen.
IMacmil - I went to Automotive Specialists in Noblesville, Indiana - 317-773-0322. That is the central Indiana area. On http://www.caddyinfo.com I posted the dyno graphs and their number is there too.
They are a standard automotive service place and the owner added a dyno for better diagnostics (problems when car is running). He is also into the monster truck competition and dyno's that monster.
Fortunately they are close to home. I found out from some gear-head friend (600+ HP camero)about this place. I'll admit they are hard to find. Just call around and start asking questions.
It is a rush doing 120 in third gear on the dyno, and even a bigger rush to see more power measured from your car from some improvement you've made. You test at the 1:1 gear - usually 3rd on a 4 speed automatic.
Today I saw the 2 new paint colors offered for 2002. A bit of a surprise...
The 2 cars were actually parked next to each other. My previous guess on what had been announced as "Indigo" as a replacement for Midnight Blue was wrong. It is not the same dark blue color as offered on other GMs like the Bravada. It is now called "Black Sapphire Metallic" and is, frankly, a disappointment. It is very dark, almost black, and the metallic component seems almost nonexistent. The car was outside, and had a thin film of dust but even when I cleaned a bit it still looked blah. I am thinking it is a color that looks fabulous when freshly waxed, but at any other time looks not so good.
The other new color, "Dark Tropic Teal Metallic", is very similar to the shade used by GM 2-3 seasons ago in Grand Ams and the like. It is not really all that dark; more of a medium teal. I was prepared not to like it, but the metallic component is very high and so it has some sparkle. I am still not a huge teal fan, but as such shades go this one is not bad. I don't know how good it will go with the neutral interior though; the one I saw had gray and looked OK.
Think if I was buying a 2002 I would have to go with Ruby Red now since the blue is a step back from last year.
I just bought a 2002 Intrigue and decided to go with the Bronze Mist. I have never had a car close to that color before too so it was new to me. My son in law also just bought a Ruby Red Intrigue and I didn't want to be a copy cat. Right Shane? LOL! The Ruby Red was also very close to the color our 91 Olds Supreme used to be too. Anyway, different strokes for different folks huh?
Comments
really? , doesn't seem so...read on
and..." I've never driven one so I would have no basis for making any other statements about the car other than how it looks".
Then, do what you say and don't...see below.
"Also, I joined this discussion in the first place merely out of curiousity. I saw the topic on the list of hot topics so I popped in for a read"
funny then you did not just read, but wrote too.
" I've purchased American cars in the past and may do so again. "
I seriously doubt that IMO.
"There are a few that appeal to me, it's just that none of them are manufactured by GM-well, except maybe the Corvette. "
so this MUST be based on looks alone, since thats your premise here? Not likely, so say so. If you had, and fessed up this was based on you real knowledge about the product, I'd respond that Olds was/is recognized as having some of the best cars from GM, and the US.
Again, read the facts contained in past reports and tests that compare.
Not trying to dis anyone, but am sick and tired of input here from some, ovewr the past year+, not just you, that reaches conclusions without explaining how, or factually in error. Most of these fault Olds/GM based on assumptions and heresay. This isn't to say no one should provide FACT BASED/EXPERIENCED based input that is negative, as it is appropriate. its everyone's right to provide input, but expect to be challenged if its without merit.
someone else covered how the stbs are installed. I don't think the sway bar would ever have a problem. The front OEM swaybar is HUGE anyway. It's not that big of a difference but IS in handling.
My brother thinks he forgot to grease something on the sway bar installation and thinks that's what's making the horrible creaking noises. I hope that's what it is. I'll let you know.
Keep this board happening! It's so exciting to see!
I've driven Corvettes, I would consider buying one. I've driven many different GM vehicles-mostly early to mid 90s-I worked for a couple different major rental car companies for about 6 years. So I think I know enough about GM cars to make some comments on them.
I have very strong opinions about cars and I have owned American cars, most recently 2 Ford Mustangs. Both were great cars and there are times when I wish I still had them.
Here are some cars I would like to own: Porsche 911, Dodge Viper, Chevrolet Corvette, BMW M3, BMW 740, BMW 540, Honda S2000. These are some of the cars that I find interesting and wouldn't mind owning someday. These are some of the best cars on the planet in my opinion.
Keep in mind I'm an Intrigue owner and I love the car. However, I have no illusions that it's built to the same overall quality level as its Japanese counterparts and the data verifies that.
However, since the American auto industry has provided my my livelihood for 29 years, I always buy American.
I try and buy from GM or Ford (though I have owned a Honda and a Mazda) as they provide a lot of jobs to people in Ontario as well. Ontario is the second largest car making jurisdiction after Michigan. I have friends that work for both companies and suppliers so downturns affect them and me indirectly.
Dindak has a point re GM being rated number 3 by J.D. power. It is like rating a corvette, porsch, M3, S4...., which one is best? They all are.
Here endeth the lesson...
He contradicts himself when he says he likes the classic Aurora but calls Intrigue bland. INTRIGUE WAS PATTERNED AFTER THE CLASSIC AURORA!
I've reread several articles which speak highly of Intrigue. Several compare the car favorably to european imports. One says Intrigue is "european" in its ability to soften bumps yet not isolate one from the road. Car and Driver found themselves "leaning on the Intrigue in curves as if it were a BMW". Another says the Intrigue has "european flair with japanese sensibility." The shortstar engine (exclusive to Oldsmobile) was named in the TOP TEN two years in a row by Ward's Automotive magazine.
I don't put blinders on and say the Intrigue is flawless, certainly from my experience I've had more than my share of problems that I shouldn't have to deal with. Even so, I generally agree with the positive comments above.
Something else to keep in mind is that Intrigue was never meant to compete with Porsche or any of those overexpensive dreamcars he wants (and by the way my friend who actually has a Porsche likes my Intrigue a lot, especially the engine, which another article called "gloriously expensive."
The Intrigue isn't mediocre. People that don't know it and then form opinions about it are mediocre. Some will jump to Intrigue's defense regardless and that isn't my point here. I respect the most ardent critic of Intrigue that has posted here (jgriff) because he actually did what Oldsmobile wanted and came from the imports to try it out but it failed for him. But it would be hard to find a car lover that wouldn't say at least SOMETHING nice about Intrigue. We can call it a failure because GM didn't sell as many of them as the ubiquitous buicks and chevys out there. We can call it a failure because many people don't even know what an Intrigue is or who makes it. We can call it a failure because of the overwhelming problems that the majority of Intrigue owners have had with their cars. But we cannot rightly call the car a failure because it didn't try. Who among us would rather have a 1997 Cutlass Supreme over a 1998 Intrigue? Not me. Not one bit. No way.
f1jules : You are an odd guy. You come here with zero interest or experience with the Intrigue and tell us what a mediocre car it is. What a joke. I think you best go back to the Honda forum. They will love you over there!
However, good quality is not a synonym for good car. Saturn has good quality, but is a dog to drive. The Intrigue, on the other hand, has a lot of virtues that put it above the average car, Camry, Accord and Maxima included. Yes, maybe quality is not one of its virtues, but there are many.
When cars or anything else is rated, I don't just look at the conclusion, because it will be weighted according to someone else's priorities. I rather look at the individual categories and rank them to my personal priorities. That's why CR puts the dreadful Avalon as the top of large sedans while I put the Bonneville there, which I bought.
You see, journalists don't have to put their money where their mouth is...
I found my first post which was on Feb, 20,1999.
I have been here for almost three years.
As i was scrolling through i remembered all of the people who are no longer here.
The old timers might get a kick out of some of these names:
sunliner, tander,lee18, angietoo, 1487, art16, lss1, chavis10, matt, lindsey, rachelspop, delrick, dwg, etharmon, marktest, j_coleman, spitasky, regfootball, tenn1975, tblacknite, racer_x_9, greybeep, JGT74, oscarz2, jennimatt, cncman, georgeduda.
I haven't heard from any of these guys in awhile.
one2one has been here since the beginning.
I found a post from fgriff1 form December 1999 so he has been here before.
Angietoo was a major poster in the beginning, but things turned sour for her and i think she got them to buy her car back. She had the auttobahn package if i remember correctly.
"The Intrigue does not hold up well at all to the German or Japanese cars"
...and then say so in all areas, not just looks. Stop being hipocritical.
In fact the car does hold up well ergonomically and performance wise with its competitors, incl.
some so called superior german brands. Go away unless you provide facts per Road tests
et al. if you had, you'd be found for what you may in fact be: arrogantly pushing your euro/japanese brands sensiblities on cars. Oh, and BTW, at Road America Road course, i was able to pass, then hold off a 3 series for nearly an hour of 6miles/lab 12 turns/lab. I am sure that guy enjoyed reading "Oldsmobile" for that time.
In the end, you obviously just don't get it: provide input based on fact or leave. Failing to do so makes a fool only of yourself (consider that a done deal now).
About to hit the 3 year mark in a couple of months. Bought the 7yr 100,000 no deductible extended warranty when I bought the car. Plan on keeping it for a long time.
I have always wanted a counter on this board to see how many people visit a particular thread. I would bet there are hundreds every day.
The intrigue actually gets a .84G skidpad which is as good or better than E46/E36 3 series. You also probably have better midrange acceleration with the torquey engine and wider gear ratios. You can also probably make use of the number easier, as there isn't any drift or oversteer factored in. Plus PCS/DSC actually increses cornering limits on a FWD front bias car, as oppose to RWD.
I haven't been on a road course yet, do most of my racing on the street. The GTP doesn't like the tight stuff, to long and wide. I had a great time a while back with some guy in a 330i. I didn't realize that car had so much body roll
I really like the Intrique, and am sadden to see it go. I think with maybe a 5 speed automatic, and a supercharger it would be amazing, AWD would be nice too
When I was at the track, i did wish for more low down torque, like the GTP has, as i would sometimes exit turns "off cam", even when in first or second gear. A lower gear (higher numerically), like a 4.00 would have helped. Nevertheless, my car, and yes a GTP was there too, did well. never passed the GTP, as he likely had "lots of legs" with the SChgr. Gotta say it was humourous to see many euro makes there get 'taken" by so called lesser cars, esp. American iron. No Accords or Camrys appeared, jee wonder why 8^). Oh, and my car had 4 largish guys on board too. Had I been alone, the results would have been even better.
Now I like all cars that deserve it ("no boring cars" my motto), regardless of country or make.
What this means is the litmus test I apply doesn't incl. an arrogance that excludes certain country's cars over another. Its easy to see when someone has little car knowledge, when they writeoff an entire country's car offerrings, or an entire make perhaps, without recognizing that this is simplistic at best. So its always humorous to see such dribble "as all American cars are worthless", or all (GM,Ford,VW, et al) cars are bad".
hey, enjoy the GTP!
I guess with PCS or any DCS its all in tuning, i.e. if its too intrusive it can hurt you, even if your car tends toward understeer.
I don't know why the GTP gets such a low skidpad number even for a front bias FWD sports coupe/sedan, except maybe because its long and wide. I know if a turn is really tight in tends to plough. I find that it handle hard cornering, when its sharp but not tight or narrow. You also do better at higher speeds, and using a little throttle to pull you through.
I plan to keep the car another 6 years or about (2 years old now), and then likely move to a Pontiac, as I do expect them to take some of Olds direction over time (i.e going after more import conquest sales), while being a more agressive offerring perhaps.
BTW did you see the Pontiac G8 at the shows- a GP with all wheel drive and a Vette engine?
Heard Lutz loves the car, so perhaps it could make production. The AWD system is from the
minivans (Versatrak), and unbelievably, the engine is transverse (east/west) like fwd GP's, but again is the LT1 v8. Forgot HP numbers, but bets its around 300 or so. Most parts then off the shelf, so GM Build it, and name it GTO, as it meets that cherished nomenclature's level!
I've needed no warranty work done on it at all, but when turning the steering wheel there is a faint scraping sound in the upper steering column that sounds like a wire or something rubbing against the housing. I will probably have them look at that before the warranty expires.
Other than that the car has been perfect. The best one I have ever owned and I intend to keep it in the family for a long time.
I often slowly let up and begin to brake, as you said. However, you have to be careful not to overloading the tires with braking despite the additional weight/grip, while slowing to the point where they will actually corner.
They say the best thing to do is use both feet. You can use the brakes to slow you down, and rotate the rear, while using the throttle to pull you through and unwinding the wheel to reduce cornering load. You have to balance braking and throttle, so you are least putting some torque at the front.
I guess on the Intrigue you could leave PCS on, turn TCS off and give it some gas.
I did see the G8, its suppose to have AWD and a LS1 with 350HP and 350 ft/lbs of torque. The show car road on 20 inch rears and 19 fronts, with ultra high performance rubber. They had a 4 speed auto, probably from the trans am. I would like to see a beefed up 5 speed auto, or better yet a SMG with launch control like in the 2002 BMW M3.
As for the 0-60 thing. Completely humiliated a civic with all the goodies this afternoon. I was in the camaro and 2 kids pulled up beside me and started inching forward. Light turned green and i walked it off the line and then floored it at about 10 mph. They went from being half a fender length ahead to a car length behind in the space of about 75 feet.
I love 0-60. Just not in a front wheel drive sedan.
:^)I remember the kids in the new prelude with the coffee can exhaust that jumped me at the light and by the time i hit 40mph it was over.
Or the third generation fbodies that tried to hang with me on the highway.
"Okay Mr. Trans Am we both floor it at 65 mph and the first one to 100 wins". I would take that bet with 4 people in my intrigue.
16" STS Rims
Ok so this hasn't happened yet but I'm waiting for it. Somebody slap me or something.
Vcjumper - we are still waiting for your secret formula on increasing HP. Wondering what your next fantasy might be.....
vcjumper : I agree with lmacmil, the V6 Altima should knock out the Intrigue. I raced with a Maxima once and lost. No big deal, he paid lots more for his car so it should be faster.
ketch : I will probably go Pontiac or Nissan after Intrigue. It's about 5-6 years off so we should be shopping about the same time.
My initial air box mods were just a start. I have since done some more cutting on the air box to remove all sorts of turbulence causing obstructions in the box. I intend to take before and after pictures (I have an extra air box) and have those on the site in the future. I'll dyno again too and expect at least a couple more HP and torque.
Check out http://www.musclemotors.com for Intrigue stuff. Maybe they have something. Call them on the phone. The Aurora mass air flow meter was not listed, but they have it. Check out http://www.granatellimotorsports.com Muscle Motors sells granatelli mass air flow meters. They are less restrictive and calibrated for the greater air flow. On an Intrigue, who knows, you might get another 5 to 10 HP at the wheels.
Look for a cat back system for the exhaust too. Check out http://www.corsaperf.com I don't think they have Intrigue stuff but may do so custom. They are doing one for my Aurora - hopefully soon. Also check out Borla too. I've heard magnaflow is pretty loud.
Good luck finding a "micro tuner" to make the computer modifications. Maybe superchips has one or will have one. http://www.superchips.com Their web site is outdated - they will tell you that so you need to call them. The are now working on all the GM 3.8's.
Stay away from any "induction system" that does not have a heat shield and pulls hot air off the engine. You get equal or better performance from just a K&N replacement filter. Hope this helps if any of you are indeed looking. Maybe you could add 20 or 30 HP to the Intrigue (at the engine)
Altima? - that 0 to 60 is for manual, that cuts at least half a second (if you know how to drive). Nissan has been caught fibbing a lot and I've seen so many conflicting 0 to 60's for all sorts of cars that it is crazy. I've seen our new Impala 3.8 listed at 7.7. No way. I'd like to believe it too. Even so, if you are .5 seconds whatever quicker you spend the rest of the ride in an Altima, and IMHO I'd rather cruise in the Olds. Don't forget the big picture.
b4z, I've dusted several 80s F-bodies with the Intrigue myself. It's kind of fun. Not to stereotype, but those old F-bodies(and Mustangs) are usually driven by some redneck that has the rear end jacked up and flowmasters on them. Whats so funny is that at a stoplight jaunt, they will sit there and spin their rear wheels while I'm already gone.
I personally have really never cared much who makes the car. If I (1) like the looks & pricing, (2) it performs well and (3) it does not require too many trips to the service department, then call me a happy camper. The Intrigue covered 1.75 out of 3 for me.
If I did not have so many problems with number 3, I would still be driving an '98 Intrigue and thinking real hard about grabbing a one of the last new 3.5 2002.
Long story short, I've had my best luck with Infiniti/Nissan, Toyota, Acura/Hondas [in that order].
Intrigue Gentlemen carry on, you are doing a fine job.
FYI: I've found the maintenance a little more pricey on my CL, however I don't have any problems between scheduled maintenance check-points. Fact is I don't really mind paying a little more, if it prevents problems from arisen.
They are a standard automotive service place and the owner added a dyno for better diagnostics (problems when car is running). He is also into the monster truck competition and dyno's that monster.
Fortunately they are close to home. I found out from some gear-head friend (600+ HP camero)about this place. I'll admit they are hard to find. Just call around and start asking questions.
It is a rush doing 120 in third gear on the dyno, and even a bigger rush to see more power measured from your car from some improvement you've made. You test at the 1:1 gear - usually 3rd on a 4 speed automatic.
The 2 cars were actually parked next to each other. My previous guess on what had been announced as "Indigo" as a replacement for Midnight Blue was wrong. It is not the same dark blue color as offered on other GMs like the Bravada. It is now called "Black Sapphire Metallic" and is, frankly, a disappointment. It is very dark, almost black, and the metallic component seems almost nonexistent. The car was outside, and had a thin film of dust but even when I cleaned a bit it still looked blah. I am thinking it is a color that looks fabulous when freshly waxed, but at any other time looks not so good.
The other new color, "Dark Tropic Teal Metallic", is very similar to the shade used by GM 2-3 seasons ago in Grand Ams and the like. It is not really all that dark; more of a medium teal. I was prepared not to like it, but the metallic component is very high and so it has some sparkle. I am still not a huge teal fan, but as such shades go this one is not bad. I don't know how good it will go with the neutral interior though; the one I saw had gray and looked OK.
Think if I was buying a 2002 I would have to go with Ruby Red now since the blue is a step back from last year.
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