Oldsmobile Intrigue

one2one

I tend to believe that Goodyear Eagle tires are on the low end of the quality spectrum. They crank them out like a Pezz dispenser. They're used on every mid-sized GM car (definitely on Intrigue, Regal and Grand Prix), Chrysler slaps the 17" equivalent on their LH cars. And who knows how many other companies and their models. Plus, they know that most people don't rotate their tires on a regular basis and so will be replacing them after 20k miles anyway to pass inspection. And for the people who fit that category, they usually go to Sears and get the 4 for $99 tires anyway. So why spend the extra money for OEM tires when I can make a ton of cash on them and compensate with people who know tires.

evandro

I don't think that a tire's warranty is the mileage it'll last, but rather a marketing ploy whose cost is embedded in its price...

Anyway, I've never had an OEM tire to last less than retail ones...

evandro

I've had lots of Goodyear tires and they couldn't be beaten in longevity. Right now, only one of my cars, a Bonneville, wears Goodyear and I am very happy with them: quiet and good grip, Because the car is new, I don't know yet how it goes on wet pavement or how long it'll last, but I've got a good impression so far.

teo

Yeah my Impala LS has 16" Goodyear Eagle GA tires. These tires are very well constructed and if properly maintained can easily make it to 80K miles. They are a stiff tire too. Wet traction is a mixed bag and hard cornering does suck with them as they give out too early. They are noisy as well. I am planning to eventually replace them with a new set of Yokohama AV dbs tires as I have heard they they do make a significant difference in handling and roadholding qualities.

My Eagle GA's were manufactured in Canada as my Impala

dindak

teo : Impala is made about 45 minutes from here in Oshawa and the tires were likely made in near home town of Kingston. You are driving a very southern Ontario car! ;-)

one2one : Never had a problem with Goodyears, though I have only ever had the high end ones. I have had Eagle GA on my last 2 cars and I had GTs on my old Fiero in high school.

one2one

When the mileage arises (about 50k) and when they go on sale, I'm going to put on Michelin Pilot XGTs like I did on my old Intrigue. The wife's Bonnie has Eagle GAs and the 2 Intrigues had/have Eagle LS. Neither has impressed me at all. I agree with Teo in that cornering is less than stellar. In all fairness, the Pilots were H rated. I'd have to go with Eagle RSA to make an accurate comparison.

Has anyone gone from the RSA to Pilots or another other brand?

f1jules

I don't think my comments were uncalled for. I was simply asking for clarification from another poster on which Aurora front end he/she thought the intrigue should adopt. I added my opinion on the latest Aurora. I think it's ugly. That is my opinion. I'm entitled to it. End of story. I don't see too many of them on the road either so there must be others who share my opinion.

Also, there seem to be a number of Intrigue owners who have more than a passing interest in the Nissan Maxima. Seems to me that is part of the reason for Oldsmobile's demise. GM will continually lose market share to the imports due to the higher quality of the imports and the cleaner more appealing designs.

Wake up GM...

one2one

You said that there is no drilling involved. How does the brace mount if no screws are used? That is, of course, making the assumption no screws are used because of no drilling.

ab348

I'm not sure the remarks were uncalled for either. But maybe we are all a little more sensitive to things these days.

I must admit that I did not at all like the new Aurora when it was first introduced. Compared to the original it seemed undistinguished and bland. I am now getting used to it, but it is still the original that turns my head every time.

dindak

Impossible to judge Aurora sales since all Oldsmobile sales are off due to the impending demise. I see quite a few new Auroras around and I think it's a nice looking car. Better than the dull old Acura TL that's for sure.

As for Maxima interest, it has nothing to do with GM quality. GM quality is pretty much on par with Nissan, so it's not an issue. Maxima / new Altima interest is just in the car itself. The next generation Grand Prix could well be a great alternative. Heck even the current GP is decent aside from the dash board. Nice aggressive midsize sedans seem only to come from GM and Nissan. Unfortunately for us, Intrigue will be no more.

f1jules

I thought the old Aurora had a nice clean fresh look to it. I think the new one looks too much like the Intrigue. It lost the unique and stylish look it had.

I test drove one of the new Acura TL S-Types about a month ago and for $31k loaded that is a lot of car for the buck. Nice looking too.

vcjumper

Funny the curent Maxima also gets a lot of attention in the "ugly cars" sections here at Edmunds. I personally stuck it off my list becaues of that nasty rear end that just got uglier with the semi-clear taillights that cover a solid non-independent rear suspension. The market was Maxima's to lose as Intrigue came along far after the Maxima.

I'll also echo Dindak's comments that the current Aurora may not be as distinctive at the last, but compared to the super bland (might as well be kleenex boxes or cop cars) TL,ES300, and I30/35 it atleast attempts to encorporate style. It also drives better (no longer 4000 pounds) and has had far better reliability than the last one. Still a cruiser/not sporty enough for me though.

dindak

No doubt the TL and TL-S are great performers, but in terms of looks they leave a lot to be desired. Dull, boring and Accord-like come to mind. Seem like the only colors they come is gray and black.

ketch

lmacmil: Rode in a new Maxima today, and while I have not driven one, from the
way it rode/felt and looked inside, was unimpressed. Saw a new 2002 with the
"updated" tailites (clear lense), and its now even uglier...see next...

f1jules: you stated..."Seems to me that is part of the reason for Oldsmobile's demise. GM will continually lose market share to the imports due to the higher quality of the imports and the cleaner more appealing designs."...
>you must be joking. A Maxima as cleaner and more appealling looking than an Intrigue ( or really most any other car)? Seen the new 2002 one yet? Its updates (so called) cannot be said to be cleaner. read any tests of the car. Most pan the styling. Now the Altima is another matter.

ketch

Noting a wierd occurence, where another Acura pusher has arrived on station here. Why are these folks drawn here? I ask this because looking at thier history profiles, they are focused on Olds, as opposed to other non-Acura makes. Like I said, wierd.
Perhaps its time to visit the Acura groups for my "valued input"

from poster "A", newsgroup they focus on are...

Oldsmobile Intrigue
Oldsmobile Intrigue
Oldsmobile Intrigue
Fans of the Acura CL --Part 2
Oldsmobile Intrigue

And newsgroup frequented by the "new" one....

Oldsmobile Intrigue
Oldsmobile Aurora
Oldsmobile Intrigue
Oldsmobile Intrigue
Anybody have any thoughts on the upcoming Nissan and Honda
pickups???

focus

when the intrigue is compared to the better and newest vehicle. We sure don't want the Kia people start visiting.
I am also interested in finding out how to mount the sway bar without screwing. I am not mechanically inclinded, wondering if i can do it myself?

evandro

Actually, GM has beaten your beloved Nissan in quality:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2001-10-17-gm-quality.htm

And where are the other "Japanese" and imports? The big 3 are there...

vcjumper

I think you are talking about the strut tower bars (sway bars are under the body and you would need to be somewhat mechanically inclined to try this yourself). The aftermarket stb's bolt on the existing nuts protruding from your front and rear strut towers.. The only tool that is needed is a socket driver.

The GM bar bolts on to the rear towers using one of the existing bolts/nuts without drilling but needs holes to be drilled if it is to be used on the front towers. I did the rear one myself and am not mechanically implied. The holes in the $20 GM bar may need to be reamed out a bit (with something like a dremel tool). I used elbow grease to get mine one.

I'm a little nervous of having the aftermarket sway bars installed as I've just learned that though they are fine with GP's, after time they cause the subframe to break on Buick Regals. Not sure about the Intrigue as so few have had them installed... I have no idea why Regals end up with that result.

delrick

Decision time.

Looks like no new collector 2002 Intrigue for me.

Just found out that Olds has done exactly what one would expect them to do with this last example of competence in the GM fold.

They are just cutting it loose.

There will be no lease support for those who prefer to buy the portion of the cars life they actually use.

Residuals will be under 40% from GMAC, according to my dealer.

That kills the lease market as no bank will approach that number either.

So you folks who buy should be able to get even better deals on these [non-permissible content removed] GM children.

What a pity. What an arrogant corporation.

vcjumper

I have no problem and have recommended people to try those cars when shopping, especially if they like the exterior style as they are fine vehicles.
Not exactly the same price point as Intrigues though.

f1jules

I like the styling of the new Acura TL. I don't own one but if I were in the market for a new 4-door sedan I would give it serious consideration. I like the Maxima from all angles except the rear and the new Altima is a much better looking car than the previous version. I don't think there is anything particularly appealing about the Olds Intrigue. Certainly nothing that sets it above the Acuras/Hondas or any of the other Japanese sedans. The Toyota Camry is probably the most bland of the bunch though.

I don't know what the source is for the GM quality study listed above but looking through Consumer Reports doesn't exactly instill in me much confidence in GM products.

If any of you feel the need to pop over to the Acura groups go right ahead. I have no problem with that. Frankly, I've never posted there.

My wife and I own two vehicles, a 1994 BMW 325i and a 2000 Toyota Tundra. We have almost 90k miles on the BMW and almost 30k miles on the truck. We had brakes/tires/oil changes on the BMW along with an O2 sensor recently. Other than a few minor issues the Bimmer has been a great car. No problems with the Tundra except 1 recall for a wiring harness for the tow package (which I never use anyway-worst case it could cause a light to go out on the trailer).

Prior to this I owned 2 Ford Mustangs-both good cars, an '86 BMW 325, an '88 VW Golf-horrible car, a '75 Pontiac Lemans and a '73 Saab 99.

f1jules

I don't know what the Intrigue costs. I'm sure the Acura is more. If you're considering the Maxima though, fully loaded there's not much difference in price between it and the TL.

I've never driven the Maxima.

teo

Jules, the source for the GM quality study is JD Powers and associates. Since 2000, GM has been implementing the Toyota Manufacturing Process in their vehicle assembly plants. It seems that these on going changes at the core of GM are truly paying off. Right now, Ford and Chrysler stink in quality compared to GM. By the way Daimler, BMW and VW had a slide in their quality control scores.

While a lot of folks would criticize the JD Powers study, it is still widely recognized and respected in the industry. Right now, Toyota, Honda and GM are at the top 3 spots for vehicle quality. The European brands seem to be struggling specially VW. BMW has had some nasty recalls with their X5 Suv (Engine fires) and they attribute the lower scores to the amount of recalls performed on that vehicle. By the way the X5 has been one of the most recalled vehicles in recent times.

oldsman01

No Maxima in my future, or at least not until Nissan gives it an independent rear suspension and updates the looks. If the Intrigue had not been available last July when I got it, I probably would have gone with either a Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, Buick Regal GS, or a 2 to 3 year old Cadillac STS or Eldorado TC. Or maybe a 98 or 99 Aurora. I've found that for the most part, GM cars are hard to beat in overall fatures and performance for the $$. Not to mention some like the Intrigue and Aurora(espeically the 95-99 version) are pretty sharp sedans. I figure I'll keep the Intrigue a few years and then will seriously look at the Cadillac CTS.

focus

as the people here have the choice to consider the like of acura, maxima, etc., they are very good automobiles; over in japan, american cars are priced out of the market.

oldsman01

Despite the fact that Olds and the Intrigue are going away and they car never sold to expectations, this remains one of the most active forums here. I guess that goes to show how passionate many of us Intrigue owners are about out cars. Too bad no one from Olds or GM visits these type of forums and gets the real "scoop" on how their cars are preceived, their assets, and shortcomings. Yeah they do alot of focus groups, but focus groups tend to get mired down in groupthink.

dindak

oldsman : Thought that to myself many times. This forum is regularly in the top 10 active list. Says a lot about the car indeed!

f1jules : BMW quality is nothing special. Consider yourself lucky. Most people I know with BMWs spend more time in the shop than you do. Not saying they are bad, just nothing great (especially when you consider the price point). Toyota is known for great quality.

focus : Good point! We have great selection of cars here. I like Maxima a lot, but I have to admit aside from Nissan, I generally prefer the style and statement American brands make. I also love Ferraris, but that's just a dream for me.

vcjumper

A couple of the reasons I think why this forum is popular:
1) There are no other good Intrigue sites on the web, whereas a lot of popular cars have nice and busy fan sites.
2) The car does peak the curiousity of import shoppers. They came, they read about the various ISS, suspension, brakes, moving door trim and starting issues plaguing many 98's and 99's and they left running. Whereas most would probably not check out or post in the Buick Century topic.
3) The group gets a lot of foreign vs. domestic competition chatter. This is usually when it ends up in the top 10. It also got real busy around the time of Olds' announced phase out.

focus

People i know that owns these cars spent big bucks to maintain them. if they are in the shop for anything, the shop will gouge you. i have heard quite a few horror stories.
With the way intrigue behave, now i start to question their wisdom. when you can spend 30-50% of the money for 90% of the performance & comfort. The choice become obvious. May be their ego got in the way.

f1jules

I know that MB has not enjoyed the reputation that BMW has for reliability over the years. BMWs are rock solid cars though and if you maintain them according to the manufacturers recommendations they will last a long long time. I still see many many 3-series Bimmers from the mid to late 80s on the road. This speaks volumes for how good they really are. How many 80s cars from the American manufacturers do you see? Example: Dodge Aries/Plymouth Reliant; they sold a crap load of those in the mid to late 80s yet you hardly ever see one on the road today.

My wife (it's her BMW) and I take her car to the dealership for all maint./service and they are always very prompt, friendly and honest. Her car is way out of warranty and they give her a BMW loaner car everytime it goes in-few times a year for scheduled check-ups & maintenance. That's good customer service. That's part of the reason we keep buying BMWs.

I don't tend to praise any one car over another unless it is deserving and I think BMW deserves it.

b4z

And i am sure it is $300-400 every time you take it in for servicing.

dindak

Not necessarily true. I have a few friends with BMWs and they spend more time than I do having them fixed, serviced or "adjusted". Then there is the servicing costs involved which are much higher than most. In the end you pay big to drive a car that is very common (at least here on the streets of the Toronto area). As for longevity, you can't compare $10-15K cars with $25-30K cars. I see lots of mid eighties Buicks and Oldsmobiles on the road. They last just as long as any BMW.

I agree with focus, 50% of the cost for 90% of the performance makes sense to me, even if I could afford a new Beemer.

one2one

Read an article (and forgot where) that showed that J.D. Powers (a MUCH more reliable source than Consumer Reports) put GM quality at #3. The report isn't widely publicized but it does indicate that, on the whole, GM has come a long way.

One thing that most people --especially those who read and publish Consumer Reports-- look at is one vehicle. Because the Camry has a high quaility rating the rationale is that ALL Toyotas meet that mark. But According to J.D. Powers , the Intrigue as well as other GM products is either much higher than it's Japanese counterpart or neck and neck. The Intrigue had in 2000 fewer problems per 100 vehicles than the more expensive Audi A4 & A6, Porsche Boxter, Toyota 4Runner, or Honda Prelude. The fact that the Intrigue had fewer problems per 100 vehicles than a "Toyota" 4Runner or "Honda" Prelude indicate that just because a particular manufacturer makes a vehicle one can't use that as a blanket for all their vehicles, good or bad.

I say drive what YOU want; not what someone says you should drive.

ab348

I read somewhere (not sure exactly of the source) that the Consumer Reports quality ratings get skewed because owners of Japanese vehicles, believing them to be of high quality, tend not to report on every little thing that goes wrong, i.e. they take it to a dealer for an oil change and the dealer does $500 of repairs while it's there, but the owner just considers it normal. Whereas other makes have owners who tend to expect problems and report them religiously. That sounds goofy, but there may be some truth in it.

What is the lifespan of an Aries? Who knows? They were disposanble cars just like many of todays Hyundais, Kias, Suzukis, Chevy Sprints, etc. People didn't try to keep them forever. How many always got careful dealer maintenance like BMWs and Benzes? Heck, disposa-cars are lucky to get an annual wash and an oil change. I grant you that the high-buck cars tend to be of higher quality, (though I am not always convinced of this -- see Jaguars and Land Rovers among others) but I suspect owner behavior has as much or more to do with longevity than the country of origin.

teo

Ab: couldn't agree more.

ketch

You state the Intrigue doesn't offer much over its Asian make brethen. Don't read many road tests do you. If you had you would have found your conclusion baseless. Thus why I find
those who "push" Acura's (and other Asian brands) without really knowing the full spectrum of offerrings out there (incl. Amercian) to be humorous at best. Oh, and I said, its wierd that so many non-Intrigue owners even frequent here, as having never owned the car, really cannot provide any valued input anyways.

dindak

While I do think Honda/Toyota quality is better, you pay a premium for it. Further, if you are buying a car for that reason only you are likely not getting the car you really want. Some people perceive anything less than the best quality to be not good quality which is simply not true. Of course that is only part of GM's problems. The other is making the cars / trucks people want and that's where Lutz and the boyz have to make changes. Things are looking better, but there is still a long way to go.

f1jules

I was speaking strictly in terms of looks.

Visually, there is nothing that makes the Intrigue any more appealing than any of the Japanese sedans on the road. I never made any statements about any other aspect of the car. I've never driven one so I would have no basis for making any other statements about the car other than how it looks.

Also, I joined this discussion in the first place merely out of curiousity. I saw the topic on the list of hot topics so I popped in for a read. I do enjoy a good discussion though which is why I keep coming back.

I don't really expect to change anyone's opinion. I just want to offer a different point of view.

I've purchased American cars in the past and may do so again. There are a few that appeal to me, it's just that none of them are manufactured by GM-well, except maybe the Corvette.

f1jules

I would have to agree with you regarding the Jag/Land Rover. Jag seems to have made a real effort at improving quality so maybe I would consider one but Land Rover? No way.

one2one

When Toyota came out with the 2002 Camry they admitted previous generation Camry's didn't have a lot of content. The dollar was stronger than the yen and it cost them a lot to build. So to cut costs, they didn't put anything in them for the price they demanded. But because people want the precieved quality, they paid for it.

Now the '02 Camry has a lot of features for the buck. But prior to that, EVERY GM mid-sized car came with a V-6, even if only a small one (Century). Some options on domestic cars aren't even offered in foreign jobs. A base Intrigue comes with ABS, V-6, & A/C among other things. Most who purchase(d) Camry's and Accords never realized that things like A/C is an option because the dealer orders it. They know that no American is going to buy a car for $20,000+ w/no A/C for the summer.

In short, the quality thing is subjective but the content issue is not. Toyota will probably gain more customers now that they put content in the Camry. I even considered one because of what came or what I could get with the car. But there weren't any on the lots when I was looking. The styling has improved, although I think the ES300 interior should be in the Camry's body.

evandro

I've considered seriously the new Camry recently, but thought that the price was far from serious. At best, a bad joke. In the end, for the same price of a Camry V6, I bought a Bonneville SLE, which is a heck more of a car.

dirkdaddy

I have to somewhat agree with the post who says that cheap cars like the AriesK, Chargers, Shadows, etc typically lead hard lives. Properly cared for, they last a long time. Many well used cars eventually get to a point where the crusher begins to look like the best alternative due to decreasing reliability, outdated design. Those who paid 5+ yrs financing for BMW's and other high end cars view their cars differently than those that shopped for a AriesK wagon. This is usually a big factor in how many are left after a few years.

Some people like me are really cheap, and I kept my '88 shadow turbo for 13 years. I had it repainted (those 80's paint jobs fell off!!), new clutch, radiator, 3 head gaskets (weak point of motor), 2 ac compressor clutches, a ac evap core, and I think that's it besides normal maintenance. When I sold it it looked great and drove great. Many people never change the coolant, transaxle lube, fan belts, alternator brushes, shocks, etc and then when they all expire around 8+ years they say the car has gone to heck. Well, did they follow the recommended maintenance procedures? Usually heck NO!

I'm done rambling, my point being if you have a decent car and care for it, even a cheap car can last almost indefinately unless you live in the rust belt. If you never do maintenance you can rest assured it will eventually strand you and fall apart.

I have a lady in my office who has a older BMW and that car gets the strangest problems and has been very costly. Its not worth over $3000 but she's put well over that into it trying to keep it alive. Another guy has a 750 and z3, his v-12 750 has a bad rear main oil leak with less than 75K miles on it. I can't guess how much that will cost to fix. He's just driving it. I've heard the same story on BMW's again and again and again from tons of people. Great cars but hard to self maintain and very expensive to keep up with a long time.

I'd consider getting a used GLS intrigue if I could find a 2000 or later model in the next year or two for a decent price.

S

fgriff1

Thought I'd add a few comments.
I own a 98 GP GT OEM Goodyear LS & Intrigue GLS w/ RSA. when the LS wore out at 40k on the GP I went to the Pilots XGT H. Now I love how this tire improved handling. Rain/dry grip were great. Snow traction was very good. Only problem is at 30k The tread wear bars are starting to show. I rotated every other oil change too. I now need new tires before the winter comes. I'm thinking of going back to Touring tires. I'm leaning towards the Michelin X-one. Theses are T rated but milage is guarented to 80k. I spoke with Michelin, they said that the XGT 4 usally gets 30-35k at best and with the X-one I would be giving up some handling but gaining tread life and snow traction. this is my primary car so the my decision is leaning towards the X-ones.
I still recommend the XGT as long as you don't mind replacing them sooner than you think.

tpken

You Intriguers are closing in on the milestone post here. 98 more to go I bet you get there tomorrow. Keep up the great discussions.

Best wishes to all

Ken

vcjumper

Tough choice. I had X-ones on a previous car and liked them a lot! I also like the Pilots on my Intrigue now, though I know mileage won't come close to what the X-One can do, I hope to get them close to what I got with the LS's. Probably not though, as I feel a lot more comfortable driving aggressive around corners/ramps with the Pilots.

ketch

Actually, again even in most road tests, looks of the Intrigue was singled out as once of its advantages, while competitors were typically singled out for thier boring sameness, esp. Accord and Camry. Boring yet competent, they were never considered as stand outs styling wise, while Passat and Intrigue were. Understand you have your opinion on this, but the majority doesn';t agree, auto press included.

b4z

Any relation to jgriff, our resident acura lover?

one2one

With an Grand Prix AND and Intrigue?

Naa!!!

dindak

one2one : More I see the new Camry, the more I don't like it. Toyota just did weird things and looking at the car from certain angles makes you realize that. Price wise, the car is not a great value. ES300 looks way too much like the Camry IMO.

f1jules : Even people who hate American cars admire the Corvette. You can't help just loving the car. It's proof that GM has the ability to make the best.

one2one

Anyone know how the X-ones are as far as ride quality is concerned? What about Michelin Energy?

My Pilots had 40k miles on them before the car got hit. There's was a lot of tread life left. I also rotated them faithfully every 7500 miles.