"Let's not start bashing BMW here, I own an E36 M3, it's a damn good car."
nyca -- it is unfortunate that you interpreted my words as "bashing" BMW and took them so personally. When one product is preferred over another, it does not mean the other product is being "bashed". My post simply stated the truths of the BMW's disadvantages as it related to me. Its purpose was to provide more input to the poster requesting advice.
I am picking up a 2001 C 320 this week, and I inquired about factory fill oil..was it Mobil 1? I was told my my service advisor at MB that the only cars with factory fill of Mobil 1 are the E55, C55, and I think S Class AMG. MB does however put in Mobil 1 in all routine maintanance oil changes now starting with all models from 1998 and newer. However, a current discussion on engine oils in Shop Forum, stated by several people, was that ALL Mercedes now are delivered with Mobil 1 from the factory. So, is my new C320 coming with factory fill Mobil 1 or not? RSL007
That's a very good question, I just had my C switched To Mobil 1 at 3800 miles at my own expense. I believe the new Cs would now have Mobil 1, but maybe the Free Mobil 1 at FSS services is a MBUSA thing, not from Germany? Also, it could be that Mobil 1 went into the Cs after a certain production date. You need to call MB and ask, call between 9 and 5 eastern time Monday-Friday that way all departments will be open and they can transfer you to somebody who knows what they're talking about! LOL! Let us know what you find out.
IIRC, they still come from the factory with regular mineral oil. This is to ensure proper break-in, I think. One of the issues with the mineral oil in the US was that the US spec mineral oils did not all live up to their specs and as such, there were cases of engine sludging. However, this is not a problem in Europe since their mineral oil standards are a lot stricter/strigent and MB is able to control what goes into the new engines at the factory. FWIW, new Canadian MBzs (except for the AMG vehicles) still get mineral oil only, so I find it difficult to believe that only the US destined MB vehicles are factory filled with Mobil 1. We don't get free maintenance in Canada, so if the dealers foisted the synthetic oil only policy onto the customers and charged them accordingly with their high markup prices, the customers would squawk!
Hope this helps! Drew Host Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I just called the folks at Mercedes regarding the fact that my car will not start. This is only the latest in a long line of problems with my C240 that has 4353 miles on it. The service people are on the way out to see if they can get it started. I was told that I probably have a dead battery. What a piece of junk this vehicle is. My 1997 Tahoe's battery has never gone dead and it has 36000 miles. Fortunately, the car is sitting in the driveway and not at some out the way places that are often on my schedule. It is 11:46 PM as I write this message. I don't think that I have ever hated a car as much as I hate this one. Of course the pollyanas on this board will say why don't I just sell it; my response is that I will take a real financial bath after less than 6 months ownership. Well the road side service just came and they were unsuccessful in the getting the car started. They need to go get a flat bed truck to tow it to the dealer. We scheduled the tow for 10 AM tomorrow. We tried putting the key in and out 10 times without success. The key just will not work. My neighbors will all be chuckling when they see the big truck pull up tomorrow; they told me to buy Lexus. How much is a 2001 C240 with 4500 miles worth?
Maybe it's the battery you should hate and not the car.
Personally, I don't let my neighbors run my life or decide what car I should buy. Don't worry about what they think, if they like driving Toyotas with a L-badge, so be it.
murph, after every service and contact with my nb dealer..i have recieved a phone call and survey to fill out asking my impressions of dealer/car.one time i marked " good" instead of very good or excellent.the reponse from mercedes regional offices was quick and urgent! a phone call from an mb rep.. wanting to know what,why,who,where??? have you received any of these? what was the result?? i have followed your troubles with some concern and with the thought"but for the grace of god".you should not be embarrassed, mb should.. does your car qualify for your states lemon law? do you really care what your neighbors think of your car?its battery..or brakes? they are no reflection on who you are as a person! please remember that this car..like most in the world is mass produced,on an assembly line.. there are statistical occurances ..doesnt help your situation i know.. but. theres not a"polyanna" here that doesnt sympathise with your situation!!
Well I got a call this Saturday from my dealer, and he told me that my car is already here. WOW it was quick. I was extatic when he told me that. I was over excited all day long and could not think or do anything, but the wait is over and I am picking it up on Monday. I hope everything is working!!! The specks for the car: C240, Brilliant Silver/Charcoal/ 6 speed/C2/DC I will let you all know how it goes on Monday.
A question for 4Murphy: with the C240 that won't start..you put the key in 10 times and it wouldn't start...but you didn't say if you had lights, or horn....was the car alive electrically? Would the car crank and not start? is the diagnosis a dead battery, or an electronic problem with the key, ignition or engine management syatem. Certainly maybe you shouldn't call it a piece of junk if the battery was at fault. Even so, an electronic glitch which should be easily fixed dosn't make the car junk. Anyway, a follow-up on the cause of the starting problem would be informative for us all. RSL007
I have been a new MB C320 owner since January 15 and have now driven around 3500 miles. I have a repeat problem with the keys losing' programming and becoming incapable of locking and unlocking the car. It got to the point yesterday where neither of the keys will remotely lock or unlock the vehicle. And last night it would not turn in the ignition. It is possible to open the doors with the metal key, and thereafter lock the car manually. I have been back to the dealer twice and the stated "there is a problem with key programming and a firmware upgrade is forthcoming", not much use if you are on the wrong side of town and you struggle to get into your car and then it doesn't start.
I am European, and there are laws to protect the consumer from this kind of shoddy build quality and lame excuses from the dealer. I sympathise with '4murphy', especially his comments regarding the loss of face. Basically only a chump would spend +$40k on a car that won't start!
As for bashing MB this is my 3rd Mercedes, and I am agrieved that MBUSA and the dealer seem oblivious to this problem that blights their reputation, and diminishes from the potential value of purchasing a quality' vehicle.
Does anybody else on these pages suffer similar problems with their new 'C'.
1. Quality. I agree with nyca that the reliability of engine, transmission, and electrical systems should only be concerned. I want to see the follow-up with 4Murray if he'd like to share. Though his case may be just an unfortunately statistical occurance, one among the no-more-than-20 regular posters on the board with that kind of complaint is still worrysome, especially with a 4500 mile MBZ.
2. Pricing. The common sense is that $1000 off MSRP on C is the best one can get. That is quite a profit for dealers considering MBZ has 3% holdback vs. no hold back for BMW 3 series with commonly $1500 off. so back to the question, any more recommendations on Southern Calif. dealers? So far I've got Penske, Caliber, and Rusnak. I guess without much discount, it does not matter much except the services. Maybe in July when 2002 models come out, I will get something.
i have aprox 12,000 miles on my c240 benz..the worst problem ive had was a "sqeaky" drivers seat... it was fixed. my keys,brakes,radio,trunk,lights,etc.. all have worked fine... and continue to work fine. i certainly do not consider myself a polyanna if my car works to specs. i am enjoying my car to the point that i hardly even think about the fact that im driving a benz.its smooth and effortless... and THERE!! Tthere are laws here in the usa also to protect consumers that vary state by state.. i do not consider any person that buys a car with problems,a chump.. no matter what the price. i,for one,bought my car for my satisfaction.. not my neighbors!! murph would be justified in being frustrated and angry if the car were a new yugo!(eewww!!)
I got my C320 on Tuesday March 28th and as I told you had a bad key within 24 hours. They reprogrammed etc. - Seat problem was back at dealer and within 20 minutes of reprogramming key was bad. I went ballistic and told them I would leave car and get ride home etc etc. Well I got a new key on Friday March 30th and it has worked so far. Dealer is Prestige in Paramus, NJ. Had problem with sun roof but OK now. Had two gs300's before and never had to return to dealer after pick. This has put a damper on my new car. Do understand how Murphey feels. I am leasing so guess I am stuck for 3 years. It does drive nice but seats not as comfy as Lexus - also on Lexus steering wheel both went up and retracted. I keep telling myself how nice it looks and it is fun to drive but deep inside I wish I had my GS back. Also, do those of you who leased have a $350 end of lease charge. They never told me this and I find this a real ripoff. Well, Murphey- hope this will be your last problem.. Going for first long ride now - hope I will be thrilled with it by the time I get home.
Hi Everyone, I've been reading the different posts for a while in this group and a couple of others. I have a '92 Vigor now and I'm looking to upgrade at the end of the year (when I finish the courses).
I chose now to post because my Vigor went into the shop on Friday to have the clutch replaced. It was due, the car has 75k miles. The dealer gave me a '01 CL Type S as a loaner for the weekend. (I have test driven the C320, which is what I think I'll end up in.) The CL is nice, but it is missing a full size spare and good seats. The support is only for 3/4 of the thigh. So when I tried a couple of corners, I found myself bracing because my knee would slip off the seat. I also do long drives (Toronto to San Fran. and more) so only a full size spare will suffice. The Vigor has a donut now so I replaced it with a full size spare. The problem is that it has to go into the trunk proper, so there goes a lot of usable space. Turning circle: no comparison. The MB rotates, and the CL requests extra yards. No issues with fit and finish, the CL is very nice.
I'm not looking for zero to sixty times, but I don't want a pig either. In the C240 v. C320 debate, I like the extra amenities, but the larger engine provides better performance when the car has more than just the driver in it. My vehicle before the Vigor was an Integra. With 2 people, the car performed the same as with one person. Three people was the line. With three people, the performance noticably degraded. I once crammed 5 in there, and I drove like I was driving a truck. I don't want any more of that, so the larger engine will be fine.
In the MB vs BMW debate, I see the biggest difference being the bias towards luxury or performance. In my case, I've already done all the "I won't do that again" moves, so I'm up for a car that is more safety conscious. BMW wil move to the side curtain design in their next revision. The MB warranty is 1 year better (paid), and aesthetically, the MB wins hands down, for me anyways.
Sorry about the length, but a couple of other observations. I tested the GS300, and the Solara. Toyota is still drive-by-wire. I think if I was cruising down the highway at 80 and tried to make a right turn, the car would continue straight, but the computer would request that I not do that again. And the VW's are nice, but that 2yr warranty worries me.
I won't be buying before the end of the year. For me it comes down the the C320, or the restyled/redesigned CLK that should be introduced late this year. Overall, I think MB is much more competitive now. A few years ago, I would never even have considered the marque. Too expensive. Today, when I look at the numbers more closely, the it seems value for money ratio is quite high.
youve brought up some very valid points in your decision making process.i also tested a solara early in the process.. and a jetta glx stick... came to many of the same conclusions
The road side service people came this morning with a flat bed to take my car to the dealer. They again checked the battery. There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the battery, the lights come inside and out. I informed them that I woke the service manager from his sleep last night and he informed me that there was probably something wrong with the key. I have 3 keys for the vehicle and none work.
We are going to have one heck of a meeting Monday morning at Auto Strasse in Ann Arbor.
Well, you can't put a car on a flat bed if you can't get it out of gear, I was told by the driver. He called back to his office and they are sending out another truck that has dollies. They should be here around 5 PM.
After reviewing the towing instructions in the owners manual, of course after the driver left, there is a way to get the car out of park for towing. Go to page 316 where it describes removing the coin slot in the center console and then putting a screwdriver in the hole and pushing. It actually works. The car can then be put in Neutral. It certainly helps to read the manual, but all too often it is after a problem arises, and it is late at night.
The Michigan Lemon Law relates to particular problems being fixed in a timely fashion. For example, it wasn't until my fourth attempt to get the brakes fixed, did they get fixed. If they had not been fixed that time, I could have used the law. One must give the company that many times to fix each problem or the car must be out of service for a number of days.
For those of you out there who don't believe me when I describe the problems that I have been having, I am willing to fax to you the service records for this vehicle. Just e-mail me at smsdas@aol.com. Not all C240 vehicles are made equally; I own one that is a piece of junk.
I saw three 2001 C240's offered for sale in the Detroit Free Press classified section this morning. Two were at dealers; they were all asking $35,000 plus. I guess that I will try to sell the car myself. Any suggestions on asking price? Anybody out there want to buy my car?
Not too long ago I sold my 99 SLK and ordered a C320 in anticipation of a 65 mile a day commute that started the first of this month. While waiting for my C320 I monitored the posts here on Edmund's. The problems described did not sit well with me. I bought a 2000 Solara SE V6 for exactly HALF of what the C320 was to cost. So far I have 4,000 flawless care free miles. No brake squeal, brake dust, keys that don't work, car that wont start, radio that does not work. I just get in the car, start it, and drive to work (burning regular gas). After the C320 arrived it demonstrated some of the quirks I have read on this web site. I decided to stick with the Solara. I'm going to give the C320 a year or so to "mature" in hopes they get all the bugs solved before I buy one. Just my two cents.
I was just browsing MB's U.K. site where they have a "compare" button you can click and compare the attributes of the 5 C class models available over there in their various trim lines, classic, elegance, avant-garde etc C180 C200k C240 C320 c220 CDI. Starting with the c180 having 129hp to the 320's 218 hp, torque differences etc.. how many if any of you would if it was available in North America purchase or consider purchasing the car with that small an engine. I suppose like me you would have to actually drive the car first, but assuming the acceleration was adequate for your everyday commute back and forth to work would the stigma of "not measuring up" forbid you to buy it? Without getting into differences in taxes,gas prices etc where we have a distinct advantage and where for Joe average driver whether in the UK or here probably has similar driving conditions, on/off ramps and city congestion is all pretty much equal. After all I believe, the majority of ordinary people I know are just driving daily back and forth going with the flow of traffic, seldom taking their car for extended road trips or rallys with the wife and kids in tow, that a huge amount of unused horsepower truly would not make any difference. Speaking for myself, I probably wouldn't be interested for lack of the thrill factor all us middle aging boomers are seeking.
Wow, MB really has to get this key situation squared away fast, it seems to be the cause of so many problems reported by owners here. It will be interesting to see why that 4murphy car doesn't start, either it's related to the key/security system or the ECU is fried.
Castinstone, your Honda Vigor needed a new clutch after 75,000 miles? Not good.
My 1989 Peugeot 405 has 230,000 km (140,000 miles) on its original clutch, and I fully expect to get another 100,000 km out of it (there is lots of adjustment left on the cable). My car is driven in mixed city/highway conditions and I make lots of gearchanges. You may be unduly harsh on your clutch; try double clutching and double declutching to avoid premature lining (and synchromesh) wear.
Regarding the dismal experiences 4murphy is having with his C, I'd be livid too. Mercedes-Benz should replace his car, no questions asked. After a hideous experience like this, it'll take a few years of flawless driving to gain even the remotest amount of confidence in the car.
I am waiting until the third (or possibly 4th) year of production before I buy a C. There are often lots of problems in the first year of production of any car. I know; my 405 was a mid-1988 build for Canada (first month of production for N. America) and it was rife with problems, which necessitated, among other things, a new cylinder head and piston rings. Luckily these issues were sorted out under warranty and now the car is quite reliable, some 200,000 km later.
Another thing to consider is that the Mercedes C is an extraordinarily complex machine, especially the electrical system. The dark hand of entropy can have a field day with complex electrics. It is principally for this reason that I'd prefer to have a later production version. There should have been a chance for most of these problems to be exorcised 2 or 3 years into production. Meanwhile I'll monitor US and German reliability reports carefully.
"I also do long drives (Toronto to San Fan. and more) so only a full size spare will suffice."
FWIW I was disappointed to find after purchase that my C320 did not come with a regular full-size tire. It is bigger and better than a donut, but the tread has limited mileage and I believe it is a synthetic material. Not that the mileage limit will not get you to where you are going, but it still is not a regular full-size.
Before I purchased the car, one of the first questions I asked was if the car had regular full-size tires. MB tells me that a full-size carries too much weight for the 320. Somewhere in the manual it states that it is done for convenience of the driver.
I also was a bit weary of buying a first year model but I got $2,300 off list on my C320 and decided to take the plunge. I could have had three Hyundai Elantras in my driveway (NOT a bad car at that!!) but nothing out there drives like the C. As far as the BORING Solara is concerned.. I test drove it and found it to be quite benign. Sure they never breakdown, neither does my Lexus Rx300. But talk about an unexhilerating drive!!! GEEZ... We all know the risks and most people who have problems are the first to talk about them. The ratio of good cars to bad cars are MORE than you think. Luckily I have NOT had any problems. Ironically I never had a problem with my '95 Neon (put 30,000 miles in one year before trading). Look at Consumer Reports and the '95 Neon got a horrendous rating. We have warranties, loaners etc... and some of us even have a second car. I would never trade my C back for my 2000 C280. It's that good.
i also drove the solara... maybe dependable.. but i also found it to be just another camery.the only 2 cars that i considered other than the c were the infiniti i30(terrible residuals and resale value)the maxima(same thing)though they were fun to drive... and a jetta glx stick.. a lot of fun to drive... quick 6.quite a nice interior.. much less $$ .. but.. man o man.. those vws have so many problems!i found the passat to be boring.no, the c is a keeper...
I was wondering if anyone here would know if someone can trade in a current lease for a newer or different car before their lease is up? Are there any penalties or how would one go about doing this?through a leasing company?thanks!
Agreed Z... Funny story... I was at my relative's house this weekend in Roslyn Long Island. My parents came over and my dad who just got back from Florida saw my new C. He wanted to drive it so I gave him the keys. He currently drives a 2000 TL. My dad said this C320 was the BEST car he has ever driven. He said it was no comparison to his car. I am not sure if my father was just telling me that or hee really meant it. All I can say is that I don't think I need validation as I know it's a wonderful car. I guess Zeemee can say the same thing since he has had a TL as well. WOnderful car...but NOT a C.
But guess what, I have a CD changer that skips in my car. I took it in the last time and they said they didn't find anything wrong with it.
I took it back and it still skips. I didn't pay a $1000+ stereo upgrade for a piece of junk. I demand a replacement and if they don't replace that piece of junk I'll rip it out and throw it into the showroom to show prospective customers what junk they sell.
But I'm not going to sell my car because of it. I love driving my MB. I'd rather have a perfect car with a junk CD, than a 2nd choice car with a perfect CD.
the tl is truely a car of great value... has a great assortment of options for a good price(just under 29,000)... and..is all in all a good car.....BUT..... BUT...then a drive in a c... tighter... MUCH more quiet!!! takes curves in a way the tl never did.now i know what they mean by a "german ride" i wont"dis" the tl at all.. it has a great nich in the marketplace now...under 30 grand entry levelluxury.. but mY way of thinking was... for a couple of grand more.... i have... AN MB!!! life is too short... and there are so many compromises we make along the way.. why not have some dessert....... NOW???!!!!
We had an I30 previously, it was a very nice and dependable car, but there is no comparison to the C. Our C240 seems to me to be every bit as powerful as the 190hp Nissan V6, in fact at higher speeds the C seems to be faster. At speeds in excess of 100mph the C is still whisper quiet inside and that wasn't the case with the I30. When we bought the C we also considered the 3 series, IS300 and the A4. The A4 seemed an older design, and is about to be replaced. Ther IS300 seemed like an Integra or some sort of boy racer, and it's interior was absolutely hidious IMHO. The 3 series didn't have all the features the C does and frankly, we didn't think it to be as handsome of a car. I'm knocking on wood here, but we haven't had a problems worth mentioning in nearly 6 months and 5k miles, I'd buy the C again in a heartbeat! I really do feel sorry for Murphy, I can only imagine how upset I'd be if I had the types of problems he's had since day one! Good luck pal!
i test drove the is300 the 1st week it was in the dealers.. the novelty wears off fast!.. the interior seems "toy" like.. the rear lights look like some suped -up honda that u see often in the west coast.. them lexus version of"select shift" has the buttons on the steering wheel... so if u grip the wheel accidentally.. u can shift... nah... i wasnt impressed.. but it sure is fun driving all these cars! id love to be a professional reviewer!!!!!!!!incidentally the maxima/i30 6 is now a 225 hp!
We are soon to be taking delivery on a C320 and are wondering what others have done about extended warranties? Did any of you buy one from Mercedes? How much? or would you recommend one from somewhere like Warranty direct? Do the dealers really add huge markups for the mercedes ones. Thanks!
I bunch of people here and in the other MB threads at Edmunds have gotten discounted Mercedes Benz Premium warranties at substantial discounts through a dealer in CA. These are the real deal and only available via referral, tell them you heard about here. Steven/sshowit is the guy we all have to thank for this info. Here's the contact info:
Courtesy Mortors Auto Group, Chico, CA Lisa Marie Lehrbaum, finance mgr. toll free 800-655-3535 I purchased a MB 8yr/100k warranty for $1680, but I've heard they may be up to $1780 now. This is good at any MB dealer and is tranferable! I think it'll really increase the value of our cars in that they're covered basically bumper to bumper all the way to 100k miles. If I were buying a used 5-6 year old 75k mile Mercedes, this warranty would be worth a lot! Give her a call, she was a pleasure to work with! Let us know here what the current price is, and good luck with the new C!
When I picked up my 320 December 7, the sales consultant told me that the gearbox had a "W" for Winter mode and an "S" for "Summer" mode, and they had set my car for "Summer" mode because of our Southern CA climate. (I believe the "S" represents Standard and not Summer.)
I never bothered to check it out, but today while reading about "tapping-the-shift" in the manual, I realized the car had been put in "W" mode and not "S", and there are differences in the gear functions between Winter and Standard. That said, the car drives like a dream.
Question: Should I immediately change from Winter to Standard? In what circumstances would I notice the difference?
w mode will have your car moving from a dead stop from 2nd gear..in snow or ice. that would decrease chance of wheels slipping.. in soca you will never have any need for that! did u have fun finding the "sweet spots" in 3rd and 4th gear??
Here's are my first impressions... 1- Bose w/CD changer. Outstanding combination. Never heard my CDs sound so good in an automobile.
2-Rainsensing wipers. Hand a chance to use this function during heavy rains this weekend. Very cool!
3-Xenons. Expensive option but totally worth the investment. Projects a longer distance. Extremely bright, even during the heaviest rain at night.
4-Ride. Solid yet very comfortable.
5-Quite. Everyone including myself thought the car wasn't on when driving down city streets. Take that Lexus and Acura!
6-Styling. Head turner, everywhere I went people were trying to get a better look.
7-Easy Entry/Exit feature. First car I've owned with this feature. Very nice!
Haven't had any of the previously mentioned issues with my car, except the Tel-Aid remote unlock feature. Tel-Aid told me this wasn't available on all 2001 C and S class Mercedes.
i am amazed at how quiet the c is when driving! my acura tl was reasonably quiet.. but not like the c! especially when the sun roof is open.. it was impossibe to have a converstation! in the tl.the c is amazingly quiet~
sirus32: I'm surprised they said that. AFAIK, the feature doesn't work on 2001 C's w/ build#s under 59000. I'd suggest you just try it (call TeleAid and tell them you locked yourself out :-)
I read in the manual that the headlamps are made of a chip resistant material . I have had to buy the plastic film to put over my previous cars headlamps because of chips from rocks. Do the Mercedes headlamps really not crack and chip like they say? This being my first I have no idea. Also anyone use "Clay Magic"? Its to take off bug, tar, sap etc. I noticed this weekend I have a cornucopia of insect life embedded in my grill and side mirrors. My car is white and it is now showing some chipping already. Have 3000 miles on it . I wonder why Mercedes did not put a compass on the C's. I could have used one this weekend. Thanks
no damage done to car... just a slower start from a dead stop.. but mb's have had that feature for a while.. he just didnt take the time to treat you the way you should have been..by explaining all the features....
>no damage done to car... just a slower start >from a dead stop
Z -- Jeesh! If I am having a slow start from a dead stop with car in Winter mode, I better sprout wings or wear a parachute when I change to Standard.
>he just didn't take the time to treat you the way >you should have been.. by explaining all the >features
The sales consultant was a woman with the dealer's best 3-yr sales record. The Mercedes rep held her responsible for the dismal detailing done on my car at delivery. It seems as if she was the one with the responsibility of checking out and inspecting the car. She was sent to Germany to learn about the 320 -- she also told me the headrests did not tilt, along with other misinformation. That said, I liked and felt comfortable with her and still do. She wanted to get away early delivery day to spend the weekend with her boyfriend and did hurry more than she should methinks. Since I am all for love, I did not want to take up too much of her time and should have been more demanding.
ahhh amore'! you should notice the difference in the pick up.. especially when the trans matches your driving style again. incidentally..im in sales... sometimes selling a product(that sells itself) is the easy part.where a salesman really earns his/her commissions..is in the follow up ..and service...
Did you also know you have a trunk release switch inside the trunk. Something you'll never need until you find yourself locked inside your trunk. (See picture in link above)
I found it while unloading luggage last night. With the trunk lid open I noticed a flashing green light reflecting in the rear window. I immediately thought X-Files and UFOs, only to find out it was a lime green button flashing.
Comments
nyca -- it is unfortunate that you interpreted my words as "bashing" BMW and took them so personally. When one product is preferred over another, it does not mean the other product is being "bashed". My post simply stated the truths of the BMW's disadvantages as it related to me. Its purpose was to provide more input to the poster requesting advice.
Miki
I was told my my service advisor at MB that the only cars with factory fill of Mobil 1 are the E55, C55, and I think S Class AMG. MB does however put in Mobil 1 in all routine maintanance oil changes now starting with all models from 1998 and newer. However, a current discussion on engine oils in Shop Forum, stated by several people, was that ALL Mercedes now are delivered with Mobil 1 from the factory.
So, is my new C320 coming with factory fill Mobil 1 or not? RSL007
Hope this helps!
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
The service people are on the way out to see if they can get it started. I was told that I probably have a dead battery. What a piece of junk this vehicle is. My 1997 Tahoe's battery has never gone dead and it has 36000 miles.
Fortunately, the car is sitting in the driveway and not at some out the way places that are often on my schedule.
It is 11:46 PM as I write this message. I don't think that I have ever hated a car as much as I hate this one. Of course the pollyanas on this board will say why don't I just sell it; my response is that I will take a real financial bath after less than 6 months ownership.
Well the road side service just came and they were unsuccessful in the getting the car started. They need to go get a flat bed truck to tow it to the dealer. We scheduled the tow for 10 AM tomorrow. We tried putting the key in and out 10 times without success. The key just will not work.
My neighbors will all be chuckling when they see the big truck pull up tomorrow; they told me to buy Lexus.
How much is a 2001 C240 with 4500 miles worth?
Personally, I don't let my neighbors run my life or decide what car I should buy. Don't worry about what they think, if they like driving Toyotas with a L-badge, so be it.
Good luck on your car, hope it gets fixed soon.
after every service and contact with my nb dealer..i have recieved a phone call and survey to fill out asking my impressions of dealer/car.one time i marked " good" instead of very good or excellent.the reponse from mercedes regional offices was quick and urgent! a phone call from an mb rep.. wanting to know what,why,who,where???
have you received any of these? what was the result??
i have followed your troubles with some concern and with the thought"but for the grace of god".you should not be embarrassed, mb should.. does your car qualify for your states lemon law?
do you really care what your neighbors think of your car?its battery..or brakes? they are no reflection on who you are as a person!
please remember that this car..like most in the world is mass produced,on an assembly line.. there are statistical occurances ..doesnt help your situation i know.. but.
theres not a"polyanna" here that doesnt sympathise with your situation!!
C240, Brilliant Silver/Charcoal/ 6 speed/C2/DC
I will let you all know how it goes on Monday.
I am European, and there are laws to protect the consumer from this kind of shoddy build quality and lame excuses from the dealer. I sympathise with '4murphy', especially his comments regarding the loss of face. Basically only a chump would spend +$40k on a car that won't start!
As for bashing MB this is my 3rd Mercedes, and I am agrieved that MBUSA and the dealer seem oblivious to this problem that blights their reputation, and diminishes from the potential value of purchasing a quality' vehicle.
Does anybody else on these pages suffer similar problems with their new 'C'.
1. Quality. I agree with nyca that the reliability of engine, transmission, and electrical systems should only be concerned. I want to see the follow-up with 4Murray if he'd like to share. Though his case may be just an unfortunately statistical occurance, one among the no-more-than-20 regular posters on the board with that kind of complaint is still worrysome, especially with a 4500 mile MBZ.
2. Pricing. The common sense is that $1000 off MSRP on C is the best one can get. That is quite a profit for dealers considering MBZ has 3% holdback vs. no hold back for BMW 3 series with commonly $1500 off. so back to the question, any more recommendations on Southern Calif. dealers? So far I've got Penske, Caliber, and Rusnak. I guess without much discount, it does not matter much except the services. Maybe in July when 2002 models come out, I will get something.
Thanks again.
my keys,brakes,radio,trunk,lights,etc.. all have worked fine... and continue to work fine.
i certainly do not consider myself a polyanna if my car works to specs.
i am enjoying my car to the point that i hardly even think about the fact that im driving a benz.its smooth and effortless... and THERE!!
Tthere are laws here in the usa also to protect consumers that vary state by state..
i do not consider any person that buys a car with problems,a chump.. no matter what the price.
i,for one,bought my car for my satisfaction.. not my neighbors!!
murph would be justified in being frustrated and angry if the car were a new yugo!(eewww!!)
I've been reading the different posts for a while in this group and a couple of others. I have a '92 Vigor now and I'm looking to upgrade at the end of the year (when I finish the courses).
I chose now to post because my Vigor went into the shop on Friday to have the clutch replaced. It was due, the car has 75k miles. The dealer gave me a '01 CL Type S as a loaner for the weekend. (I have test driven the C320, which is what I think I'll end up in.) The CL is nice, but it is missing a full size spare and good seats. The support is only for 3/4 of the thigh. So when I tried a couple of corners, I found myself bracing because my knee would slip off the seat. I also do long drives (Toronto to San Fran. and more) so only a full size spare will suffice. The Vigor has a donut now so I replaced it with a full size spare. The problem is that it has to go into the trunk proper, so there goes a lot of usable space. Turning circle: no comparison. The MB rotates, and the CL requests extra yards. No issues with fit and finish, the CL is very nice.
I'm not looking for zero to sixty times, but I don't want a pig either. In the C240 v. C320 debate, I like the extra amenities, but the larger engine provides better performance when the car has more than just the driver in it. My vehicle before the Vigor was an Integra. With 2 people, the car performed the same as with one person. Three people was the line. With three people, the performance noticably degraded. I once crammed 5 in there, and I drove like I was driving a truck. I don't want any more of that, so the larger engine will be fine.
In the MB vs BMW debate, I see the biggest difference being the bias towards luxury or performance. In my case, I've already done all the "I won't do that again" moves, so I'm up for a car that is more safety conscious. BMW wil move to the side curtain design in their next revision. The MB warranty is 1 year better (paid), and aesthetically, the MB wins hands down, for me anyways.
Sorry about the length, but a couple of other observations. I tested the GS300, and the Solara. Toyota is still drive-by-wire. I think if I was cruising down the highway at 80 and tried to make a right turn, the car would continue straight, but the computer would request that I not do that again.
And the VW's are nice, but that 2yr warranty worries me.
I won't be buying before the end of the year. For me it comes down the the C320, or the restyled/redesigned CLK that should be introduced late this year. Overall, I think MB is much more competitive now. A few years ago, I would never even have considered the marque. Too expensive. Today, when I look at the numbers more closely, the it seems value for money ratio is quite high.
Thanks
came to many of the same conclusions
We are going to have one heck of a meeting Monday morning at Auto Strasse in Ann Arbor.
Well, you can't put a car on a flat bed if you can't get it out of gear, I was told by the driver. He called back to his office and they are sending out another truck that has dollies. They should be here around 5 PM.
After reviewing the towing instructions in the owners manual, of course after the driver left, there is a way to get the car out of park for towing. Go to page 316 where it describes removing the coin slot in the center console and then putting a screwdriver in the hole and pushing. It actually works. The car can then be put in Neutral. It certainly helps to read the manual, but all too often it is after a problem arises, and it is late at night.
The Michigan Lemon Law relates to particular problems being fixed in a timely fashion. For example, it wasn't until my fourth attempt to get the brakes fixed, did they get fixed. If they had not been fixed that time, I could have used the law. One must give the company that many times to fix each problem or the car must be out of service for a number of days.
For those of you out there who don't believe me when I describe the problems that I have been having, I am willing to fax to you the service records for this vehicle. Just e-mail me at smsdas@aol.com. Not all C240 vehicles are made equally; I own one that is a piece of junk.
I saw three 2001 C240's offered for sale in the Detroit Free Press classified section this morning. Two were at dealers; they were all asking $35,000 plus. I guess that I will try to sell the car myself. Any suggestions on asking price? Anybody out there want to buy my car?
Starting with the c180 having 129hp to the 320's 218 hp, torque differences etc.. how many if any of you would if it was available in North America purchase or consider purchasing the car with that small an engine. I suppose like me you would have to actually drive the car first, but assuming the acceleration was adequate for your everyday commute back and forth to work would the stigma of "not measuring up" forbid you to buy it?
Without getting into differences in taxes,gas prices etc where we have a distinct advantage and where for Joe average driver whether in the UK or here probably has similar driving conditions, on/off ramps and city congestion is all pretty much equal. After all I believe, the majority of ordinary people I know are just driving daily back and forth going with the flow of traffic, seldom taking their car for extended road trips or rallys with the wife and kids in tow, that a huge amount of unused horsepower truly would not make any difference.
Speaking for myself, I probably wouldn't be interested for lack of the thrill factor all us middle aging boomers are seeking.
"I have followed your troubles with some concern and with the thought "but for the grace of god".
AMEN!
Murph you have had problems with your 240 well beyond the norm with little or no joy and much aggravation -- they would have made me crazy!
Miki
My 1989 Peugeot 405 has 230,000 km (140,000 miles) on its original clutch, and I fully expect to get another 100,000 km out of it (there is lots of adjustment left on the cable). My car is driven in mixed city/highway conditions and I make lots of gearchanges. You may be unduly harsh on your clutch; try double clutching and double declutching to avoid premature lining (and synchromesh) wear.
Regarding the dismal experiences 4murphy is having with his C, I'd be livid too. Mercedes-Benz should replace his car, no questions asked. After a hideous experience like this, it'll take a few years of flawless driving to gain even the remotest amount of confidence in the car.
I am waiting until the third (or possibly 4th) year of production before I buy a C. There are often lots of problems in the first year of production of any car. I know; my 405 was a mid-1988 build for Canada (first month of production for N. America) and it was rife with problems, which necessitated, among other things, a new cylinder head and piston rings. Luckily these issues were sorted out under warranty and now the car is quite reliable, some 200,000 km later.
Another thing to consider is that the Mercedes C is an extraordinarily complex machine, especially the electrical system. The dark hand of entropy can have a field day with complex electrics. It is principally for this reason that I'd prefer to have a later production version. There should have been a chance for most of these problems to be exorcised 2 or 3 years into production. Meanwhile I'll monitor US and German reliability reports carefully.
FWIW I was disappointed to find after purchase that my C320 did not come with a regular full-size tire. It is bigger and better than a donut, but the tread has limited mileage and I believe it is a synthetic material. Not that the mileage limit will not get you to where you are going, but it still is not a regular full-size.
Before I purchased the car, one of the first questions I asked was if the car had regular full-size tires. MB tells me that a full-size carries too much weight for the 320. Somewhere in the manual it states that it is done for convenience of the driver.
Miki
How many can you name w/ full size spares? Audi A4/VW Passat/Toyota Camry are the only ones I know of w/ one...
Only my former BMW 5 series
Miki
But guess what, I have a CD changer that skips in my car. I took it in the last time and they said they didn't find anything wrong with it.
I took it back and it still skips. I didn't pay a $1000+ stereo upgrade for a piece of junk. I demand a replacement and if they don't replace that piece of junk I'll rip it out and throw it into the showroom to show prospective customers what junk they sell.
But I'm not going to sell my car because of it. I love driving my MB. I'd rather have a perfect car with a junk CD, than a 2nd choice car with a perfect CD.
i wont"dis" the tl at all.. it has a great nich in the marketplace now...under 30 grand entry levelluxury.. but mY way of thinking was... for a couple of grand more.... i have... AN MB!!!
life is too short... and there are so many compromises we make along the way.. why not have some dessert....... NOW???!!!!
am
Courtesy Mortors Auto Group, Chico, CA
Lisa Marie Lehrbaum, finance mgr. toll free 800-655-3535
I purchased a MB 8yr/100k warranty for $1680, but I've heard they may be up to $1780 now. This is good at any MB dealer and is tranferable! I think it'll really increase the value of our cars in that they're covered basically bumper to bumper all the way to 100k miles. If I were buying a used 5-6 year old 75k mile Mercedes, this warranty would be worth a lot! Give her a call, she was a pleasure to work with! Let us know here what the current price is, and good luck with the new C!
I never bothered to check it out, but today while reading about "tapping-the-shift" in the manual, I realized the car had been put in "W" mode and not "S", and there are differences in the gear functions between Winter and Standard. That said, the car drives like a dream.
Question: Should I immediately change from Winter to Standard? In what circumstances would I notice the difference?
My thanks.
Miki
did u have fun finding the "sweet spots" in 3rd and 4th gear??
See my photos of C240 - Road Trip at PhotoPoint
Here's are my first impressions...
1- Bose w/CD changer.
Outstanding combination. Never heard my CDs sound so good in an automobile.
2-Rainsensing wipers.
Hand a chance to use this function during heavy rains this weekend. Very cool!
3-Xenons.
Expensive option but totally worth the investment. Projects a longer distance. Extremely bright, even during the heaviest rain at night.
4-Ride.
Solid yet very comfortable.
5-Quite.
Everyone including myself thought the car wasn't on when driving down city streets. Take that Lexus and Acura!
6-Styling.
Head turner, everywhere I went people were trying to get a better look.
7-Easy Entry/Exit feature.
First car I've owned with this feature. Very nice!
Haven't had any of the previously mentioned issues with my car, except the Tel-Aid remote unlock feature. Tel-Aid told me this wasn't available on all 2001 C and S class Mercedes.
I'm surprised they said that. AFAIK, the feature doesn't work on 2001 C's w/ build#s under 59000. I'd suggest you just try it (call TeleAid and tell them you locked yourself out :-)
Also anyone use "Clay Magic"? Its to take off bug, tar, sap etc.
I noticed this weekend I have a cornucopia of insect life embedded in my grill and side mirrors. My car is white and it is now showing some chipping already. Have 3000 miles on it . I wonder why Mercedes did not put a compass on the C's. I could have used one this weekend.
Thanks
Miki
Miki
>no damage done to car... just a slower start >from a dead stop
Z -- Jeesh! If I am having a slow start from a dead stop with car in Winter mode, I better sprout wings or wear a parachute when I change to Standard.
>he just didn't take the time to treat you the way >you should have been.. by explaining all the >features
The sales consultant was a woman with the dealer's best 3-yr sales record. The Mercedes rep held her responsible for the dismal detailing done on my car at delivery. It seems as if she was the one with the responsibility of checking out and inspecting the car. She was sent to Germany to learn about the 320 -- she also told me the headrests did not tilt, along with other misinformation. That said, I liked and felt comfortable with her and still do. She wanted to get away early delivery day to spend the weekend with her boyfriend and did hurry more than she should methinks. Since I am all for love, I did not want to take up too much of her time and should have been more demanding.
Miki
you should notice the difference in the pick up.. especially when the trans matches your driving style again.
incidentally..im in sales... sometimes selling a product(that sells itself) is the easy part.where a salesman really earns his/her commissions..is in the follow up ..and service...
ENJOY!
gary
>ahhh amore'!
Miki
Did you also know you have a trunk release switch inside the trunk. Something you'll never need until you find yourself locked inside your trunk.
I found it while unloading luggage last night. With the trunk lid open I noticed a flashing green light reflecting in the rear window. I immediately thought X-Files and UFOs, only to find out it was a lime green button flashing.