Mercedes-Benz C-Class Sedans

ctic

You should have them do another complete oil change. If they left the dirty oil in the reservoir then it's being mixed with the new oil and that's not good. Insist on it. Complain to the manager or the owner and punish them on the service survey if you get one.

But you'll have to get used to the idea of expensive service. MB service is typically more expensive than other cars. The reason your oil change costs so much is probably because they charge you the minimum service which includes a lot of useless stuff like check tires, check windshield wipers, check wiper fluid level. It's a scam to get more than $20 for an oil change and they're all doing it. I'm now wondering if we should lodge a complaint with the state atty general. It's not like we can get the service anywhere else.

Regarding going elsewhere I stick with them. I have the same problem. If I go elsewhere it isn't a guarantee the other place is better and I'm only causing myself more time and trouble. I'd rather chance it that service will improve rather than have to drive miles every time for service. Good luck with your new C.

zmeenow

my 1st oil change(about 4,000 miles) that i paid for took about 5 hrs. they also handnt done an oil change on the new c lass yet and were learning on my car...but.... it cost all of $45.00.and they got it right.
I would PERSONALLY pay a visit to the manager of your service dept.TELL him of your experince.TELL him to never have that person work on your car again under any circumstances.. and explain to him that the survey will reflect negatively on your experience.. and next time... you will happily fill out a positive survey... ONLY if the service is better!
you will be recieveing a phone call from the regional office of MB when they see your negative reply/.. use that opportunity to AGAIN drive it home..that you were treated poorly and sloppily..and expect more from your dealership

arewenotmen

I cannot understand the big issue the paint chips. I have 5600 miles on my C and have what I think are pretty normal chips for that amount of mileage. I had a BMW about 7 years ago which seemed to be as or more susceptible to chips. Is there something I am missing, are there magic cars out there that do not chip? Also, as to oil changes before the 10K mark, I scheduled an oil change (Mobil 1) at 5000 with my dealer (Euromotors, Wash DC) after reading several posts. Long story short, they were going to charge $100 for the oil change and then the service advisor talked me out of doing it. While he did not say it was not beneficial, he said it was really not necessary and that I would be wasting my $100.

rs64

I recently bought a C240 and I couldn't find a conventional bra for it, so I ordered a "Clear Bra" from X-Pel

http://www.xpel.com/paint/mercedes.html

zmeenow

im with you all the way re paint chips!
re the oil change.. for a 40,000 car... ill pay the 100.. certainly the 1st time.. where theres bound to be some unwanted agents from engine break in in the oil(small metal shavings,"gunk" etc) why second guess?

rs64

When would you recommend the first oil change? 1,000 miles? Thanks for the advice.

zmeenow

from what ive always read and heard,anywhere form 3,500 to 5,000.
anyone else care to add??

kenyee

What part of CA do you live in?
You might want to ask folks around here for a recommendation. Sounds like your current service dealer is clueless. I wouldn't trust them. :-)
BTW, they probably stuck in 9qts. The 320 engine takes 8.5qts (it's a round number of liters...Americans should just switch to the metric system).

returnservice

I hear what everyone is saying, but the paint seems to chip way to easy. I had my last car for 7 years and never had this problem. The only chips I ever noticed on it occured when I could actually hear something hit the car. I have yet to hear any rocks or other road debris hit my new C Class, yet I still get chips.

I don't think I'm being ridiculous. I think its reidiculous when an insect hitting the side of my car can chip the paint. And yes, I do have a coat of wax on it. I will put more on to see if it helps.

On another message board I found numerous complaints about a similar problem with the M Class. Someone there said MB was using water based paint due to environmental concerns and that it was not as durable. Could this be a contributing factor?

zmeenow

its not just mb,,,, bmw... audi... vw.. if u scan their boards..its all the same..
i have my car since oct.. the chips have pretty much stopped

nszabo

There is a new product from 3M ,its an adhesive clear thin cover that is perfectly cut to suit your car. do not know were it is sold or the price. saw it advertised in on of the car magazines.Goes on hood.

zmeenow

last word is that it discolors

mtroy

First, I'm surprised that arewenotmen was quoted a whopping $100. I always felt that DC was more of a rip-off than LA. Thank you c & z for your helpful comments and encouragement. I too had thought they should just re-do the oil change, but I was reluctant to bring it up until I read your posts. I called the service rep, told him that's what I thought was appropriate, and he quickly agreed. THAT is the kind of response that should be given to MB customers, especially when the complaint is over a relatively small dollar amount. I think that Ctic has it right -- there are problems with service anywhere you go. The goal is to find the service person who is sharp and eager to please as opposed to the many who are lazy, uninformed and uncaring. I think kenyee is also right about the cause of the problem being the metric system. Fractions and metric conversions were always problematic for me -- maybe that's why I DIDN'T BECOME A MECHANIC!!! With regard to the loose seat, to my shock, he agreed with me about the problem and said they had to order a new seat frame, and they'll notify me when it's in. In the meantime "It's not a safety issue." Thanks again for the advice and support that is so readily offered by this excellent forum.

ctic

I think the chipping problem is indeed due to the environmentally friendly paint. And I think it does need time to cure as my cars stopped chipping after a few months.

I dislike the see through adhesive bra because I saw one that had been on for a few months. It was more than the yellowing, it was the fact that every little scratch shows. With the regular paint, you can buff out shallow lines that come from low velocity projectiles and there are a lot more of those than chips, but with the bra it shows everything and you can't buff it out.

ctic

Getting too much oil in our Mercedes-Benzes is the least of problems. NASA(?) crashed our gazillion dollar probe on Mars because some guy made the same mistake. Maybe they fired him and now he's a MB mechanic.

nyca

An oil change for $20 on this car? An oil change on this car now means 8.5 quarts of Mobil One, plus a filter, plus at least 30 minutes labor. By any standard, a fair price for this at the dealer would be $75-80 minimum: $30 for oil, $35 for labor, $10 filter. Of course, it should be done correctly, overfilling it is inexcusable at a dealer. I'll be doing my intermediate changes myself, it's all done topside.

Did you call Colgan about a bra (it will be black) for this car? If they don't have one yet, they will take your name and as soon as they do, they will call you.

zmeenow

i must have gotten a deal! $45 ! did anyone say $20???thats UNbelievable!

w2p2

have 5000 miles on my C320. Washed it tonight and have a bubble forming on the right front tire. Noticed my grill is loose also.
Anyone know if the tire is covered on the warranty?
Also bought some "Clay Magic" to take off bugs and tar scrapes etc. This stuff is wonderful. Mercedes should give a kit of this with each car. Of course I also think they should give a touch up paint, but thats a joke. Mine cost $20 for glacial white touch up!

w2p2

forgot to mention that I had my first oil change a few weeks ago, and they over filled my car. I got about 20 miles and the dash went "RED". Almost had a wreck because I think it also sounded an alarm and I looked down to see what was going on.
The Service person said it was the new oil change machine, it wasn't calibrated correctly. I asked him if it did any damage to the engine, he said no. He said once the oil got hot it expanded and tripped the oil warning system. This is a new service center so I believe him on the calibration error.

zmeenow

have their own warrantee... look in your black folder the dealer gave u

mleskovar

mtroy...I'm assuming you changed the oil out of cycle or it would have been free. $20 won't do you any good during warranty period unless you change oil out of cycle again. Did the "ENGINE OIL LEVEL STOP, ENGINE OFF!" message appear? It should have appeared when you picked up the car immediately after the change. A friend with an older MB with the FSS system (no Mobile 1) gets 10 - 15K mile between changes. Once they overfilled her car...it smoked a BUNCH. They said the removal and fill process is computer controlled and they entered the wrong motor type and that produced the overfill. So, synthetic oil lasts way longer than regular oil. I was told my C320 vin...78514 (built 01/01) came with Mobile 1. I'm waiting for the regular interval to change as I figure it's overprotected anyway. Sludge, metal shavings/chips/particles paranoia is just that with modern engines IMHO. How aggressively you drive and environmental conditions make WAY more difference. MB, Ford, Honda, Rolls, or whatever.

ctic

They charged me $65 when I brought in my own Mobil1 at ~3000 miles.

That's
$35 labor
$10 filter
$20 check wipers, tires etc.

Now that MB has gone to Mobil1, the oil change is probably going to cost $100 or more.

newmbfan

Black 240. 5400 miles. 3 coats of Zaino the first two weeks. (In the garage at 35-40 degrees)

ZERO chips!

Also everything still works just like it is supposed to. (Except one of the keys) The dealer has been great. I stopped in to get new batteries for the key and they gave me a set. I did not even ask.

liman

I have three months to decide on the mb ext warranty. I don't plan on putting too many miles on my MY2000 C230K, so any warranty will probably expire on time and not miles. I have second thoughts about paying for this 'insurance', and am inclined to just take my chances and pay for problems if and when they occur down the road. I can always wait a few years, see how the vehicle holds up, and pick up a warranty (1Source, AAA, etc) down the road if need be ... Any opinions on this subject would be appreciated.

fuzzo

Has anyone put in aftermarket xenon lights in their C's. is it possible to put in aftermarket lights for the foglights as well?

thanks in advance.....

sirus32

The saga continues...

Yesterday the service manager conducted a test.
He test drove all C240s and C320s on the lot, about 8 cars. All 8 cars had the same vibration between 30-40mph. The sample of cars had an assortment of different tires... Goodyear, Continentals, Bridgestone.

The service manager contacted the Regional Mercedes Benz factory represenitive. This was the first the represenitive heard of the issue. Since the tires have been ruled out, they think it might be caused by the drive shaft. He commented how the E class had a simular issue and was found to be the drive shaft. So, the dealer ordered a new drive shaft. Should arrive in 7-10 days. Will see if that's the ticket.

mb_a_must

Just had my Tel-Aid activated tonight. Pretty cool, I like this stuff! Now I wish I had purchased the navigation system. Oh well maybe with my next. What have a lot of you done as far as extending your service? Have you done this? The yearly rate was some where around $225.00 bucks a year. This seem pretty reasonable. What does the other club members think?

greg@thedailydonut.com

ctic

Different cars and all different tires. Same dealership, same service manager, same test route? This is a WAG but might it be the road?

If it's the drive shaft, which should be the same in all Cs, then all C owners should be reporting it here.

mga3

sirus32,
Let's hope it's not as serious as a defective driveshaft. Thanks for the update. Please keep us advised.

sirus32

You might think it was the road, because the vibration feels like the car was going over a washboard. I thought this for my first 1200 miles. However, the vibration can be duplicated anywhere on any surface between 30-40mph.

The vibration does go away or is less noticeable after driving continuously for 20-40 minutes. If it's not the tires nor the road, what could it be?

liman

I plan to renew my tele-aid subscription yearly for as long as I keep my C. It is an integral part of the car, although not cheap at around $250 per year.

jrct9454

Once again, I've been away from the board just long enough for a lot of messages to build up.

On vibrations that go away after driving some distance: 99.9% of the time, this means the tires are flat-spotting, and are then returning to round after they warm up. This is all too common these days as suspension systems get more sensitive, and more makes specify H, V, and even Z-rated tires as standard. The W202 C was especially sensitive - any tire more than 1.0-1.5 mm out of round could easily cause vibrations. No tire maker is immune from the syndrome, though it is my rather extensive experience than H-rated Michelins [MXV4s especially] seem the least susceptible to the problem. Over the years, Pirellis have been the most likely to exhibit this syndrome...general rule of thumb: the more nylon in the casing or belts [as distinct from Aramid, rayon, or some of the other alternatives], the more likely this will be a problem.

Look, when every car on the lot exhibits the syndrome [and they all will if they have been sitting any length of time], that should tell you something. Yes, some Es had lumpy driveshafts, but here's my prediction: they will go to all the time, trouble, and expense to replace the driveshaft, and then discover the car still vibrates for the first 10-20 miles after sitting. Same with balancing - often, when an owner complains of this symptom, the first thing they do is go off and have the wheels rebalanced, often making it worse in the process. The factory balancing machines don't make mistakes - if your car has less than 10k miles, and the tires/wheels/suspension have not been abused, balance is not going to be your problem.

I am very sensitive to these kinds of vibrations, and have used various tricks over the years to reduce the problem. My solutions are not going to be used by 99% of drivers, so no reason to detail them here, except to say I have not hesitated to throw away the OEM tires on at least 6 of my cars [including 3 MBs] and replace them with whatever was the top-line touring Michelin of the time. Without exception, this always solved the problem. There are other things I do that most of you would be unwilling to do.

Ironically, Hondas used to be the world's worst for the shakes. All of my recent Honda products ['96 RL, '98 Accord 4, '01 Accord V6] have been smooth as butter right out of the box, and can stand being in place for at least a couple of days or more without showing symptoms. They all are equipped with Michelin MXV4s, either H or V-rated, tires that get no respect from the enthusiast driver because they are not the ultimate handlers, and can be noisy on certain surfaces, but I would have nothing but them or XGT Pilots on any of my cars.

Oh, and I took the Accord V6 in for its first oil change this week, and watched how ridiculously easy it was to pull the filter and get to the plug on this car...began thinking about doing it myself, until I got the bill: I furnished the 5 qts of synthetic, and the total bill from Elk Grove Honda was $14.89 for the labor, filter, and tax/disposal fee. Needless to say, at that price, I don't intend to get my hands dirty.

rs64

I went ahead and extended my subscription for 2 more years (for a total of 3 years)as when I activated it they offered a discount for signing up then. It was about $200 for each year so the total was around $400 for 3 years.

ricric

I would like to put a nav system in my car
since it has to be factory installed, I was thinking about installing the alpine navigation system.
Is the alpine as good as the command system offered in Mercedes??
will it void the warranty?
thx

rs64

Colgan does not have one yet for the C240, nor do the other 2 manufacturers I checked with.
Regarding the clear bra from X-Pel, it does have a warranty against yellowing, etc...

mtroy

The message on the overfill read something like: "Engine Oil Level Too High." It did not say "stop, engine off," or anything like that. WHen I stopped and turned the engine back on about 10 minutes later, the warning display was completely gone, and the "no malfunction" sign went on. Weird. That their machine might not have been calibrated for our car is outrageous.

Regarding Tele-aid, how about this for a fantasy: "Since GM's On-Star system and other similar systems are now so common, we at MB have decided to reduce the price of the subscription to the entirely more reasonable price of $100 a year. We thank our customers for their continued loyalty. Love, MBUSA" Yeah, right!

benz747

I was on the dealer lot and was surprised to found Silver 240 2001 with sticker per-owned and the price is 34 K, silage 9 K, C2, C4 package and Auto tx, - has anybody seen 2001 CARS in per-owned lot ?

mongo11

My 320 will be there in the pre-owned lot soon. Way too much trouble for 6 months and 5500 miles!

zmeenow

14,000 virtually trouble free miles... and theres obviously many like me out there...so i really dont think its a major problem... but.. a problem just the same.

ctic

Pre-owned 2001. I can only think of 2 reasons for that:

1) A lemon.

2) Someone traded up. Reading these boards I've come across a lot of people who've traded good cars for even better cars after a few months.

OK, I can think some other reasons,

3) Works for Safeco, Kosmo.com, lost job.

4) Got divorced.

5) Works for Boeing, transferred to Chicago.

6) Transferred out of country.

7) Wanted stick shift.

See if you can get the service records for that car.

sirus32

Thanks for your in depth description on vibrations. I do have a question regarding your logic.

If the tire is out of round, which I can believe it is... why would you only feel the vibrations between 30-40mph. You would think a very noticeable thump would occur as speed increases from a dead stop. However, I'm not noticing any thumping or vibrations from 0-30mph. It's silky smooth.

I'll use the example of a shopping cart. Did you ever get a shopping cart where one of it's wheels were flattened? It makes a horrible thump right away, but the faster you push the more it becomes a vibration.

newmbfan

Large bird took a dump on the hood of my black 240. In my haste to get the residue off the hood, I took some of the paper towels that are in the windshield wash rack at the local BP.

BIG MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I now have a real nice set of swirl marks on the the hood! I am in the process of trying to get them out with #5 Zaino. Film at 11.

pk6

Couldn't it be one or more of the tires just need rebalancing, seems to me that's the problem when you get vibrations always within a certain range of speed consistently, especially when it's smooth sailing below or above that "range"

mbnut1

Jcrt5434's explanation makes alot of sense given that the problem goes away with drive time. Every spring mass system has a resonant frequency where it will tend to amplify an oscillatory input. This could possibly explain why flat spotted tires would exhibit vibration in a narrow speed range.

rainers

Does the memory seat positions move when you unlock the car door. I always have to put the key in the ignition switch and then the seat moves into position. My wife is short and I am tall. We do have the options set for the seat to move back when we exit the carbut it is not far enough for me to get in completely.

nyca

I own a car that sits idle for 3 months in winter, when I take it out in spring to drive it, the tires are just fine. To say that all tires develop a flat spot sitting on a dealer lot for a few days or a week is a stretch. A batch of unbalanced driveshafts make sense, since it seems to be happening all of a sudden in the production run, or some unbalanced brake rotors perhaps. Let's see what MB does on this. They should be taking one of those cars that the service manager drove and disassembling the driveshaft, wheel hubs and rotors to find out what is unbalanced, it's not a difficult problem to diagnose. Hopefully they won't try and sweep this under the rug. You folks who have this problem, KEEP COMPLAINING, you're the only voice the rest of us have to make sure this is resolved.

elmb

Been out of the board for a while...Hope everybody's fine.
Took my White C320 to Toronto from NJ cruising at about 85-90 MPH. Once in Canada 407 ETR, I went as high as 110 MPH sustained for 10 min. Wow, it was such a rush. I know the car could still go a lot faster because I was hardly pressing on the gas. The ride was so nice and smooth my wife did not even notice my speed until 10 min after I hit that speed (that's when I slowed down) and she was awake!
Can somebody who has the Timeport Phone option tell me if I can get a non-MB Timeport and hook it up? Is it a cable or a cradle? Where is the hookup located?

jrct9454

I'm trying to share the benefit of a lot of expensive, and often frustrating experience. Diagnosing any problem remotely is difficult, or one could argue, impossible. That said, I will repeat that vibrations that go away after the car has been on the road for awhile are almost ALWAYS attributable to out-of-round tires.

Some cars, chassis, and drivers are much more sensitive to this phenomenon than others, and yes, depending on the car and tires, it can manifest itself in a narrow speed range. On our '94 C220, only from 50-65 mph, depending on ambient temps. It was delivered with Michelin MXV3s, a German-made Michelin with a different tread design, and 2 of the 5 tires were far enough out of round that they could only be used on the rear [proving that Michelin is not immune to mistakes, either]. All you had to do was jack it up, and spin the wheels, and the flat or high spots [we had one of each] were obvious.

Anyone who has a car that sits for 3 months, and drives it without flat-spotting symptoms, has either a very unusual car [I would have preferred to hear the make, model, and tires involved], or simply is not tuned to the kind of vibrations the rest of us are talking about...which is OK, because most people are not [I did say that up front].

Look, drive shafts don't fix themselves; if the vibration goes away during a given drive, this is not the problem.

Finally, some history: When the previous generation S-Class was introduced [1992 models] to the US market, very quickly cars started coming back to dealers with complaints of severe, unambiguous shaking through the steering wheel. After the usual humbug about people being too sensitive, service advisors around the country decided it was a real problem. Unfortunately, the first thing most of them did was run the wheels through their balancers...since half the electronic balancers in the nation's service depts haven't been calibrated since they were installed, much less the once-a-month schedule they are designed for, this of course resulted in making the problem worse on about half the cars. Big Mystery. Guess what? MB had decided to equip these cars with the same tires used in the EU, Z-rated Pirellis, because of course these 5000 lb. tanks [remember the prev gen S-Class...double-paned windows...] were expected to run all day on the autobahns at 140 mph. Problem was, in the US market, sustained speeds never exceeded 85 mph in most cases, and the tires turned to rocks when sitting overnight. They got flat-spotted, and stayed that way, because they never got hot enough to get un-lumped. Some enterprising service type finally figured this out, replaced the Pirellis with H-rated Michelins, and voila, problem solved. The factory finally responded, and began equipping the cars bound for the US with MXV4s [though I think they went with V-rated tires], a speed-limit on the EMC of 130 mph for the US, and eventually, a new material for the front suspension bushings for ALL cars worldwide.

That last point plays in, as well: suspension design and details can make a HUGE difference in how sensitive or resistant a particular car is to this kind of problem. It is, after all, impossible to make every tire/wheel package on every car absolutely perfectly round and straight. Thus, patterns build up: Lexus LS and SC cars are absolutely like trains, but GS cars have a bad rep for the shakes. The Camry is more susceptible to the problem than the current Accord. BMWs have been historically some of the worst about this, especially the pre E-36 3-series cars. I could go on....

Who knows, until someone takes the initiative to try a tire-based solution, just exactly what is bugging the cars whose owners are noting this problem on this board? I'm just suggesting that there is history [and in my case, experience] to suggest a place to start.

jrct9454

Just to play a hunch, I checked the NHTSA website to see what TSBs [Tech Service Bulletins] had been submitted on the new C. Only one has been posted so far, having to do with hard starting. Since I was in the neighborhood, I picked the 1994 S-Class to check as well...only one, having to do with the "new list of approved tires" for this car...sound familiar?

Incidentally, this site can be a goldmine of information, or a dry hole, depending solely on the manufacturer's willingness to be forthcoming and air its dirty laundry in a semi-public setting. Honda is religious about posting ALL problems from the field, sometimes laughably trivial ones. Mercedes likes to pretend that everything is hunky and shares this info very closely within the dealer body [ sometimes too closely...the dealers can often remain clueless about problem patterns that the folks in NJ already know about ], and sometimes after a lot of time has passed. Still, I'll keep an eye on it and report back if anything interesting shows up.

zmeenow

great posts! thank you